So I just picked up a Bazooka ELA300.1 and a Profile 600M. The 300 runs RMS Power at 4 Ohms 300 W x 1
RMS Power at 2 Ohms 400 W x 1. The 600 (though I left the specs @ home) around, I think, @ 4 ohms 300 W x 1
and @ 2ohms 550 W x 1, but you should probably double check me on that. So my question is twofold: what would be the best way to wire these two in my car and also, what subwoofers would be apropos for the best possible sound. Right now I have the Profile hooked up to two Lightning Audio 10s @ 100 W apiece and it sounds fairly nice, but I am looking for more of a boom. Price Range, 100-300. Thanks and I really appreciate any help you can give me.
-Spenser
Replies (59)
swez on 01/30/2006 14:49:47
There is not a huge difference in amping power here form either amp. At 2 ohm loads, 400 vs 550 Wrms is almost a wash.
The sub(s) and enclosure design employed, will give you the most bang for your buck. Care to sell your Lightnings, the box and one amp, and use that money for a single 12" sub in a well designed box?
Many of us like the Alpine SWR series subs. They are well built, can take plenty of clean power and require minimal box space for sealed or ported enclosure designs. Yes, you can run dual 10's as well. It all depends on your music tastes, $$$ to spend and size of the enclosure you wish to work with.
With this power range, the most bang for the buck, would be a well matched ported enclosure. If you are handy with wood, or have friends to help out, we can show you how to make a modest amp, snort out fire.
Comments?
Swez
ttocs on 01/30/2006 15:33:00
you can always try a basscube by pg. It is a single band parametric eq for bass only. It will allow you add bass where you want it, they are new on ebay for around 100$
Resneps on 01/30/2006 21:26:01
So what you're saying is that the best choice of action would be to run just one amp and a well built sub/box combo? If that is the case, then I am all ears for either how to build or what style box i should get to make the amp "snort out fire." I'm really into bass heavy tracks particularly rap and some professional bass music but mainly I listen to all types of genres. I just want the thump without spending too much cash. Any more suggestions? your first ones were great.
swez on 01/31/2006 06:32:51
OK, before we get too heavy into this project, let's define your tastes for bass.
Rap and Hip-Hop bass are easy to do with a larger format sub. (12, 15" sub) The deep, low rumble and long tones require a large cone and good, steady power from the amp. Here, a port tuned enclosure, will do the job just fine. This box design requires a Sub Sonic Filter, (SSF) to block out signals below port tuning frequencies. (~30 Hz and lower)
Now, you mentioned professional bass music too. Not sure what you mean by that one. Stanley Clarke comes to mind as does a track from Yanni, Live at the Accropolis. Meaning rapid bass runs, clicky, slap bass and harmonics. Is that what you mean?
The Profile CA600M and Bazooka ELA300.1 amps are a low budget wanna bees. Looked up the specs and if this is what you have, we can make it work to a degree, but a better amp in the future, may be in the cards. Consider the sub and enclosure as the 1st upgrade. A solid amp kit can always be added later, if the Profile does not suffice. This what you have now?
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=proca600m
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=12837
Say more, before we get down to the nitty gritty OK?
Swez
UKinstaller on 01/31/2006 09:58:04
that amp advertises that it can run at 2 ohms, but it can't. whatever setup you plan on doing, plan on running it at 4 ohms. at 2 ohms, it will shut off all the time.
-UK
Resneps on 01/31/2006 10:05:49
Those specs look about right. So I went with the crappy amps . . . that's the problem with researching after you buy, impulse buying will kill you. I meant "bass mekanix" or "bass engineers" when I meant professional bass. I do listen to Victor Wooten style stuff sometimes but that's beside the point.
So you are saying that I need to stick with the profile and get rid of the bazooka? I don't mind the amp upgrade, but for now let's just make it work with the sub and enclosure upgrade. Also, we should probably stick with the 12" as I have limited trunk space at certain times in the year when I travel back and forth from home and school. Thanks again guys....
swez on 01/31/2006 14:24:13
Low budget amps are often crappy amps too. "Ya get what ya paid fer" is pretty much the golden rule in this line of work.
Based on UK's inputs and some addition readings I did after posting earlier, that Profile does heat up easily at 2 ohm loads and will shut down to cool frequently, when pushed hard. They offer some type of externall cooling system to help dissapate heat, but that's just a sign of a poor design... "period''.
OK, the Bazooka & Profile amps are marginal at best. Set the Profile aside and we'll work with the Bazooka for now. It claims 400 Wrms @ 2 ohms, but it too can have heat problems if the gain settings are not done correctly.
OK, let's consider a stout 12" sub here. The Alpine SWR-1242D is a solid performer at a reasonable price. It is rated at 500 Watts (RMS) and is a DVC sub. (Dual Voice Coils) Have a look:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-TP7jgzrNcwp/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=500SWR1242
Best price on the web: $117.00 + S/H
http://www.techronics.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=2167&aff=45847
A ported box of about 1.5 cf (internal) should give plenty of deep bass bump here. Tuning the port to about 30-36 Hz., will give lots of deep bass loading on a trunk mounted system.
This sub is one of the best buys out there for this power range. It's durable, dependable and delivers solid lows in a well designed enclosure. If that amp is really worth it's salt, it should make this sub shout pretty good. If not, that will be the next thing to upgrade.
What HU are you running now? (HU = radio/CD player)
Swez
Resneps on 02/1/2006 09:32:23
Wait, if the amp is rated 400 Wrms and the sub is rated 200 - 500 Wrms, then isn't there some kind of discrepancy there? You're the expert, I bought bad amps : ) I'll have to check the HU when I get in the car for work today and i'll let you know this afternoon, but I do know it's an Aiwa ___________ that's 180 max and runs 45 x 4 max. It's about 4 yrs old but I have yet to have any kind of problem with it.
About the box....how should i go about constructing it or "tuning" it. Crutchfield offers a how to section, but it's vague and leaves room for mistakes on my part, could you help me there? I guess it would it just be easier for me to ask you to tell me how to do everything.... : )
ryan2 on 02/1/2006 09:35:01
Resneps, I have a feeling your gonna be like me. By this I mean your gonna go the next steop up to a good sub(s) but in a year or two u will want the best.
I went from 2 old school 12" MTX(free),2 12" Jl Audio WO's($600-700 w/ amp, box, instal, adn wiring), to my single 12" Brahma ($400).
I suggest you wait a little bit and save up ur money. Will you be happy with 1 or 2 Alpine SWS's? Yes, but u'll want more in the long run.
Also read these forums and the12volt.com and learn how to install amps, subs, wiring, and make ur own box if you dont already. That alone can save you $100.
I know its hard to wait but like I said in the long run you will be saving money trust me.
swez on 02/1/2006 11:13:58
Ryan's got a point and worth noting his words to the wise.
However, I did say Alpine SWR sub series. Big difference in the two series and to compare a $400.00 Brahma to a $100.00 Alpine SWS, is just no contest.
The SWR's are rated 200-500 Wrms as a guide to operation and performance of this sub. Interpretation... 200 RMS min power to get this sub to talk, 500 RMS will make it shout.
Yes, can help you with a box design as well. If you have the tools and some woodworking skills now, then you can give it a shot. It's about $50-60.00 in basic materials. However, you have to cut panels that are square and parallel. A good table saw is best, but good results can be had from a Skil saw and a straight shoe guide.
What tools do you have now? (or can borrow)
Swez
Resneps on 02/1/2006 12:18:00
Thanks for your advice Ryan, I've definitely churned that thought around as well. After reading reviews on the SWRs though, I feel that this might be where I would be satisfied, I don't really want noise violations at night, but I do want something that will really pound when it comes time to crank it up.
Swez, I should have no problem borrowing any tools you can possibly throw out, i live in a college town with plenty of friends and professors nearby, so getting the right tools won't be an issue.....If you have some links for box construction that would be great..
Since we are kinda revamping the whole system, what kind of amp should I be on the look out for? I probably couldn't right now but one right now, but I have a few items I could sell (12" kenwoods, the 10"s, and a couple of amps if anyone is interested), and a job so in time......Either way, I think i should start getting an idea of what to look for.
Finally, I really appreciate all the help that everyone has been giving so keep up the good work. Thanks
swez on 02/1/2006 22:37:09
Since I like Alpine and believe them to be a quality product, good features and priced in a range that won't break your piggy bank, consider the Alpine MRD-M605.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/viewitem.php?id=3733
This amp is a bit strong for low budget subs. However, with a careful setup plan, this amp, mated with a single SWR series 12, should go the distance and give clean bass when you get the urge to turn it up more than a few clicks past "stupid loud".
This amp has a selectable SSF, a digital Low Pass Filter network and even a variable speed cooling fan. These are great features to have in an amp at this price.
Comments?
Swez
Resneps on 02/2/2006 00:14:57
Sounds great, would it be okay to get an amp of comparable power or is Alpine a good choice because it looks cool. Many amps say they are rated at the same power levels but are much cheaper. I understand that some amps don't have "clean" power, but how could I tell which would be best?
Also, is there a limit to the amount of questions I have cause I'm not only trying to set up my system, but I want to learn as much as possible for friends or future systems. Just wondering.
So, another set of questions.......
I have limited trunk space at about 3 or 4 spots of the year when i travel from my school to my home, so is there a way to design everything for either easy moving or to be as space efficient as possible? Thanks....
Finally, when and how should i start constructing the box or are there more questions that need to be answered?
Thanks again Swez
swez on 02/2/2006 13:59:07
Quote: "Sounds great, would it be okay to get an amp of comparable power or is Alpine a good choice because it looks cool."
Why would anyone suggest any product based on looks alone? An Audiobahn Rep might... but few others.
I suggested the Alpine series as I have worked extensively with other guys on this forum and another, with Alpine products. All report the products from Alpine to be above average in quality, performance and if you shop well, a very fair price too. No, it's not Nakamichi or MacIntosh, but neither are the prices. I can pretty much say the same for JBL, Infinity and Pioneer Premier products. They all have a niche' in this game, but knowing the strength and weaknesses in each product line takes a long time to ferret out.
As for a sub enclosure for your Alpine 12", if you go with sealed, it will require the least space in your trunk and still give good SPL, great SQ and handle that amp mentioned. Sealed and ported specs are available off the link below:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500SWR1242.PDF
Look at the optimum section for recommended enclosure specs for either sealed or vented boxes. Personally, I would suggest starting off with the sealed box design as it is easy to make, small & compact and gives a good blend of deep bass SPL and good, punchy bass as well.
They suggest 13.0" H, 13.0" W and 12.5" D, 3/4" MDF board. These are the external dimensions and net an internal airspace of 0.85 cf when finished. We can manipulate the H,W & D to fit your vehicle better, but in the case of H & W dimensions, I'd prefer them at 14" x 14" x 11.0" D. That nets a 0.79 cf internal, with the sub displacement (0.071 cf) factored in already.
Note: The factory cutout dia is 10.9". ( a fuzz under 11.0" dia.) A 14" x 14" baffle face, leaves more meat on baffle board for the cutout and sub supporting frame too.
Swez
Resneps on 02/2/2006 16:50:08
Thanks again Swez. Any other advice on building this sucker before I get started? Also, sorry about the amp comment, i hadn't gotten alot of sleep so that sentence didn't really make any sense to me either.
About the amp itself, right now that would be a "wish list" kinda thing, but I am going to start saving up for it or its next generation, depends on when I get the money, but you stated earlier that you could make "a modest amp snort fire." Could you tell me about that in regards to the Bazooka amp that I have now?
swez on 02/2/2006 19:16:15
Well, that amp would have to be tested for actual performance and verify what it can do as it sits. From there, it would be a process of finding a pair of very high efficiency subs and designing a box of considerable size and weight, to sqeeze every dB of bass that amp can deliver. The problem is, this would be pretty much a 1 note wonder design. (Bandpass) Most SQL guys would never use a BP box because of its obvious limitations. Can get a real nice Spike of SPL at the tuning frequency band, but the rest of the bass would be pretty much tuned out.
Loud? Oh yeah... but very time consuming to build a good BP box and high efficiency subs are pretty limited in full bass range performance too.
However, if you wanted to get the most bang from the Alpine sub(s) and that amp, do the vented system per specs noted in that link above. The only thing to add, would be a SSF to the input side of your Bazooka amp. That is needed to protect your subs from harmful frequencies, below port tuning freq.
It's best to plan your system goals early and build on a solid platform good amps, subs and speakers to begin with. Otherwise, we end up spending limited funds for junk and have to replace it later... hoping we can off load the junk purchased earlier.
I prefer to coach guys with an "INVESTMENT" strategy right from the beginning. Planning, fabrication and installing is about 80% for the desired end results. The rest is gear related. Delaying the itch to buy now and pay 2x later, is just a poor investment strategy. We've all done it once... when "Bass Fever" corners us at the audio shop. But resist that demon and get the good stuff first time out.
Swez
PS Ever have a case of "Buyer's Remorse"? Meaning, we see something we like, it sounded good in the showroom, we buy it, install it and feel that sinking regret when we realize the obvious... "This is not what I was hoping for?"
I "hate that feeling" and will now take my time to research, do my homework and shop for the best value and products I can afford. Now, we can enjoy the "good stuff" for many years to come and build off a solid platform of quality products.
See my point? BTDT, avoid same.
Resneps on 02/3/2006 15:10:28
Thanks for your advice Swez. So in your opinion would it even be worth my time to try and set up the SWR now, or should i just wait til I can get an amp that can really push 1 or 2? Like you said, I don't want to rush into anything. Truthfully, which you can tell, I don't know too much about car audio, Rms's, watts, and amps, but i do know that I want the system to sound great and cost less. And I want to get it right the first time. Would it be possible for you to help me go through this thing start to finish?
swez on 02/3/2006 17:23:36
Frankly, if I were in your shoes now, I would look for ways to optimize the gear on hand. If your subs are pretty high in efficiency already, (upper 80's dB of SPL @ 1 watt/1 meter) we can work with that for now.
1. What is the model number of your subs?
2. Are these Single voice coil, 4 or 8 ohm subs?
I would consider making/buying a better enclosure for them. I need to look at the driver specs for your subs. They may not be suitable for port tuned enclosures, so to simplify matters, a sealed box system will work. Let me look at the driver specs and recommendations, before we move into this level or re-work.
You mentioned Lightning Audio 2 x 10's right? The low power handling (100 watts/sub) suggests them to be low budget and just not capable of pounding out deep low bass at high SPL levels. Are these the Bolt B3. 10.4 or Bolt B3. 10.8's? If yes, these are sealed only.
Moving up to a better quality and power handling sub, will make a difference. That's why I have suggested the single 12" Alpine. Low cost, high quality, can be used in ported or sealed boxes and you can always add more amping power and a 2nd sub later for even more boom. If you want more boom, it's all about RMS power from the amp and the cones' ability to move air efficiently.
Can you measure the external box dimensions and report them in your next reply? I would need Height, Width, Depth and wood thickness information here. If there is a center divider board, advise on that as well.
Thanks,
Swez
Resneps on 02/4/2006 14:36:15
P3.10.4 SVC @ 4ohms, 150Wrms
I like your idea for upgrading to the SWR because of the ability to add on later, but would either the Bazooka ELA 300.1 or the Profile 600M be able to keep up with it?
For the box I already have it's 12 x 27 3/4 x 12 1/4 x and 3/4" MDF. Also there is a center divider.
Also you asked earlier about the HU...Aiwa CDC-X227. It's old and time to replace it. Anything else you need to know?
swez on 02/4/2006 21:09:01
http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/boxcalcs.asp
Run your numbers on the sealed sub enclosure volume calculator. I came up with an interior of about 0.835 ft^3/chamber. These Bolt subs are for sealed designs only. Porting them will not be worth the effort and may destroy them too. Right now, you are getting about the best they can do with amp and box used.
Yes, I think you would be well served to jump into the Alpine SWR-1242d sub, ported box design. Both amps can be tried and see which one performs best for now. A Sub Sonic Filter is needed to block lows under the port tuning frequency, but not a huge expense here either.
When you are ready to upgrade, all that would be needed is a stronger amp and perhaps a 2nd matching sub/enclosure. Some guys often buy duplicate amps and run 1 sub per amp too. That way, you can get the boom desired in managable stages.
There are several ways to do this project. It all depends on $$$ available, patience and well matched amp/sub(s)/enclosures.
What say you now?
Swez
Resneps on 02/5/2006 01:36:57
Swez,
You're the freakin man.....Let's go ahead and do the SWR sub and enclosure for now and I'll keep an eye out for amps in my price range that will make it even better and allow for upgrading later....
So.....that's what I say now
So what say you now? again....
Spenser
swez on 02/5/2006 06:27:12
A solid plan Spenser !!! This plan gives you modularity in design, a compact enclosure and the ability to upgrade as cash flow permits.
The new SWR sub will definitely give you quality bass performance too. It's one of the better values out there, for well under $200.00.
You may want to give some thought to a full range amp for your front stage speakers as well. With that much bass in the back, the HU amps will not keep up. We can discuss that matter along the path too. (Just planting a few seeds for a later harvest)
Also, do you know what the output current for your ALT is? The BAT has a CCA rating number also. It would be good to look at that aspect now, so we know what other issues will need to be addressed as you build this system to concert level performance, in your ride.
Check the BAT sticker and see what CCA rating you have in there now OK? How old is that BAT anyway?
Swez
PS Think of this system as a "portable investment". Keep all your stock gear handy as when you change vehicles someday, you can take all the goodies out, put stock back in and keep the rest for your next ride.
Resneps on 02/5/2006 15:49:10
The BAT is about 8-9 months old and CCA rating is 600. anything else?
Well then how do we get started on this sub/enclosure situation? Also should I go ahead and purchase another more powerful amp kit to run the amp I have now in preperation for the next level amp I get? And what about the full range amp for the 4 other speakers? Hope that's not too many questions. I'm all ears
Spense
swez on 02/6/2006 07:09:21
Do you happen to know the ALT output capacity? From a quick lookup, I see 80A and 90A OEM models, depending on the engine and accessory package. The car needs about 45-50A to operate main devices. So, we have some capacity available for amplifiers, but the BAT will have to make up the difference.
FYI: Things like light dimming, "may be" an issue on deep sub hits at full power and car is at idle speeds. The full range amp current draw is not as severe, but when we combine both together, the electricals may end up working harder to maintain adequate power under high load conditions.
To combat that scenario, we have several options to consider:
1. Low power full range amp, high efficiency speakers
2. Mid-power full range amp, medium eff speakers
3. Upgrade the electricals as needed, to meet new load demands
Having said all that now, these are worst case scenarios. Some fixes are easy and inexpensive. Major electrical upgrade can be pricey. It all depends on how hard you push your audio system... especially at night with lights, HVAC blower, rear window defogger and other high current demand devices. (most noticable at idle speeds and brake lights on) Are we clear on these items?
OK, now we can move on to your sub enclosure. I suggest a sealed box for now. It's the easiest to build, cheap material costs and will not take up much cargo space. I gave dimensional details on an earlier post.
As for your amp and wiring kit, A #4 gage wiring kit is good up to 100 amperes of current draw. The sub amp mention will pull about 50-55A at full power. A solid 2 channel amp will draw between 30-35 amperes at full power. If you go with a strong 4 channel amp, add at least 10-15 amperes more. Keep these numbers in mind as we look at amping options. Especially for the full range amp used.
Finally, I don't wish to scare you off this project. However, I want you to see the complexity up front and choose products that will deliver, but not kill your wallet and forfeit your 1st male born child too. SMILE
Swez
PS Are you ready to get the new sub and build a box soon?
Resneps on 02/6/2006 21:38:15
Swez
I'm down to get started, but I still couldn't find the info on the ALT. I'm pretty sure its whatever the specs say it should be because the previous owner left no documentation of replacing it or anything involving work on it.
You mentioned the 3 things that may occur to fix a possible future electrical issue, is one of the 3 a better choice or is this a "see what happens" kinda thing?
I'm all ears on whatever needs to be done and I do understand that this could be complex but I'm more than willing to learn...Thanks for your help.
Spense
swez on 02/7/2006 00:12:39
Well, we won't really know how your car will respond to that sub amp noted before. It may be fine as is, need some larger wires installed or step up for more reserve power. Most of this will depend on your listening habits.
If you boom lots of bass with lights on, heater running and a few more large current devices going too, light dimming is a definite possibility. If you have a voltage meter on your dash display, watch the numbers and see what voltage values come up. If only a "dummy light" for voltage, you can always monitor voltage from the cigarette lighter port.
Anyway, plan on getting your sub, amp and wiring kit as you can. We can work on the box design now, as we already know the sub specs and dimensions for your box. I would think a 48" X 48" X 3/4" sheet of MDF should be adequate. Then some wood glue, coarse thread drywall screws, (#8 x 1-5/8") and a speaker termination cup, are a good start. A tube of laytex caulk is also needed to seal all internal joints. This will be a sealed box design. So, it needs to be air leak free as possible.
Are you ready to map out your sub box layout and cutting plans?
Swez
Resneps on 02/7/2006 10:03:44
Yes, let's get it started. I do have one quick question about the box....why make it sealed instead of ported? I understand that ported is a larger box and more difficult to build, but isn't the sound louder?
Spense
PS - I'm fine with a sealed box, time and effort are keys in that, I am just wondering for knowledge sake..thanks
swez on 02/7/2006 16:42:32
Let's stay with the sealed version on your first go round. You can always buy a full sheet of MDF and make a ported one from the materials left over and compare the differences in SPL and performance. Fair enough?
OK, Alpine suggests a 13.0" H x 13.0" W x 12.5" D, using 3/4" MDF. That makes the sub mounting panel (12-1/4" x 12-1/4") and a 10.9" hole in the center.
Your cuts list:
2 front and rear panels: 12.1/4" x 12-1/4" x 3/4" thickness
2 side panels: 13.0 H x 13.0" W x 3/4" thick
2 top/bottom panels: 12.1/4" H x 12.1/4"" W x 3/4" thick
The front panel will have a sub cutout hole of 10.9" (just under 10-15/16") inches in diameter. This is the most difficult part to do correctly. Too small a hole and sub won't fit. (sanding/filing the hole
is needed) Too large a hole, and there are potential air gaps. (these would have to be sealed with silicone)
Use #8 x 1-5/8" coarse thread drywall screws. They should be pre-drilled with a 1/8" pilot hole to prevent wood splitting. Three screws per panel joint, should be adequate spacing here. The glue will do the rest.
Your corner screws should be about 1-1/2" from each corner, to prevent wood tear out and one in the center as well. These will be spaced 3/8" on center, inside each joining edge. Glue all joined surfaces with Carpenter's wood glue. After the screws are torqued down, use a damp rag to wipe off the excess.
Tip: For a nice finished look, I recess (countersink) the screw heads, just below flush and then fill with dry wall compound. A little sanding afterwards, nets a very nice, dimple free surface. Suitable for painting, carpeting or laminate.
After the box is assembled, allow glue to cure over night and then caulk all inner seams with silicone or latex sealer. Lit that cure a few hours too, before installing your sub.
Finally, you'll need a termination cup to connect speaker wires from the sub, to the amp. This can be mounted on the side or back panel, depending on your preferences. I like the "binding post" style cups. for ease of use and they look good too. Forget the "spring clip" version as these often fail and can cause shorts. (Seal the cup inside with caulk to prevent air leaks too.
This one will do nice: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-293
This one even has a fuse in it. That's a nice feature. A 15A fuse will protect to 500 Watts. Use #12 gage speaker wiring inside and outside the box.
OK bud, that pretty much covers things... are you ready to get your box built?
Swez
Victor on 02/7/2006 16:52:00
carpenter swez.....GRIN
swez on 02/7/2006 17:28:35
Carpenter, electrician, plumber, audio tech, go-fer, salesman, negotiator, Dad, a good son, coach, mentor and blithering idiot.... Yeah, I can do all this and more. SMILE
Swez
Victor on 02/7/2006 17:46:13
seems like u are a crowd....lol..GRIN
Resneps on 02/8/2006 10:00:43
Completely ready, but because of school and work I probably won't be able to get started until this Friday when I have some free time. But I have one question: do you possess any pictures or know of a website with photos of the actual box construction? I think that would go a long way in fabricating this as seeing is sometimes better than hearing. Thanks, and I'll let you know how it goes...
Spense
swez on 02/8/2006 11:30:37
You're in luck... Just what the student needs, pictures and tuitorials!
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/reviews/20030701/build_box.html
Swez
Resneps on 02/8/2006 16:18:02
Thanks Swez. I'll let you know if I have any more questions. Hopefully I will have it done by the end of this weekend....Another question.....where would be the cheapest spot to by materials and the subwoofer?
Spense
swez on 02/8/2006 18:06:15
"Let your finger's do the walking through the Yellow Pages" under lumberyards or better still, call Lowe's or Home Depot for prices.
You/ll want:
3/4" thick MDF
48" x 48" if possible
48" x 98" is a full sheet
BTW, What are you studying in school these days?
Swez
Resneps on 02/8/2006 22:29:35
I'm actually a Psychology major with a minor in exercise science....nothing technology related, which probably makes you feel better that I won't be fixing your computer one day :)
Spense
swez on 02/9/2006 05:23:05
Hummm, interesting study plan... if I could do it all over again, that is one field I would have looked at more closely. The mind, chemical patterns and how the brain processes events, are keen interests to me the past 10 years or so.
There's a lot of good medicine developing at this stage of the game. Not sure I buy into the "suppressed memories" theories though. Seems like many experts I respect, are calling this one to the carpet. It's a good thing too, as many who have been used as "crash test dummies" come out worse than they came in. The only ones that seem to benefit from this form of VooDoo, are the therapists. (steady flow of clients)
Swez
Resneps on 02/9/2006 09:51:45
Luckily I don't really buy into that psychoanalysis with Freud liking his mother and all that....I'm more of a humanistic (people make decisions) and behavioral (people act on decisions) kind of guy. Those sounds like common sense, but you wouldn't believe how long it takes to learn "common sense." Plus, those therapists are psychiatrists, doctors and psychologists with a bit of greed mixed in (not all, just some). I'm doing the straight psychology thing so that I can counsel people, not make money, but making money doesn't hurt either : )
Ironically enough though, here's a little secret, people don't always need psychologists or psychiatrists or any kind of "ist," they really just need a listener. So in that way schooling isn't always a prerequisite to holding a client base, sometimes you just have to be a nice guy that people like complaining to, which, minus the schooling, looks like you already have goin on for you. I feel better already
Spense
P.S. I'm picking up supplies today.....When should I purchase the subwoofer, the Crutchfield site and you mentioned "making sure the sub fit." Do I need to dely building until I possess the sub?
swez on 02/9/2006 11:21:53
In my own experience and observations, "common sense" is not all that common until well past 40 years of age. (Ol man Swez is 50 now, mind you) By then, we've seen a lot, tried many things that didn't work and hopefully, learned from them.
I don't have the "sheep skin" to practice therapy to date, but after many years of "talk therapy", (cognative problem solving) I already know that most people just want someone to listen, give them encoragement, a few well time tips and let them b****h it outta their systems. They are even willing to pay big money to get that relief. (Dr. Laura says "b****hing" is OK)
I think you will do well if you remember one premise: "We have 2 ears and only 1 mouth... that generally means we should listen 2x as many times as we talk". Now, if I just shut up a while... you can get your project started. SMILE
Swez
Resneps on 02/10/2006 01:35:15
I have another question about the wiring itself....
Right now I have an 8 gauge wiring kit in my car and you suggested putting in a 4 gauge. Is it necessary to go ahead and do that or should I wait until I am ready to purchase the amp? Also, if I am to put it in, since you mentioned running two amps (a two/four channel & the mono Alpine) should I invest in a D-block or is there an alternative?
I got the MDF today and have tons left over, they didn't offer the half size, so if you want to get me the specs on the ported, I could do that....and hopefully I can build the thing this Saturday...I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks Swez
Spense
swez on 02/10/2006 12:08:07
Use the #8 for now as the amps you have on hand, only need a #8 line.
Yes, a good D-block would be the proper way to go when running dual amps. www.knukonceptz.com has a nice selection of wires, D-blocks, fuses and pretty much anything you'll need as you build for the future.
I suggest that you stick with the sealed box design for this initial install. If you went ported, your present amps don't have Sub Sonic Filters. That puts your sub at risk in ported box designs. The new amp you get later, should have SSF onboard, then go ported.
Besides, sealed boxes net nice, tight bass performance. If you went ported now, and did not have SSF's to block signals below port tuning frequency, you can damage this sub.
Swez
PS Since you already have the #8 in place, use this as a "stringer" to pull your #4 gage later. Save the #8 as it will be useful when you add a mid/high amp later.
The D-block you'll want, should have a pair of #4 ports and perhaps a pair of #8's as well. This way, you can feed both amps properly off one block and power line feeder.
Resneps on 02/11/2006 12:14:54
Swez
i'm looking at the two side panels and it doesn't seem as if there will be enough overlap to create the "seal" that seems necessary. Am I just going about it wrong or do I need to go get a larger square of wood? Also, I have not purchased the sub or terminal cup, should I wait on construction until I have both?
Spense
swez on 02/11/2006 13:29:53
The side panels are the "capping panels". The top/bottom and front/ rear panels fit between the side capping panels. It's a sandwich we call a "butt joints". Can you see how they fit in tis manner now?
You can build the box and just drill a 1/4" hole for the wires from amp to sub. This will work for now, until you get the termination cap discussed earlier. Use wire nuts for now, to connect the sub (pigtails) to the amp wiring.
The sub should have pigtails and jumpers installed per instructions that come with the sub. Use the "parallel" wiring configuration, so that you get a 2 ohm net load to your present amp of choice. (Profile or Bazook)
The pigtail off the sub, should be long enough to reach the subs and have a few inches more, to go outside the box.
When your termination cup is purchased and in hand, remove the sub and pigtail, make your hole for the cup, attach wires to cup and observe polarity as you wire to the sub/cup and amp.
See the picture?
Swez
Resneps on 02/11/2006 13:44:54
I do understand now.....slight problem, i don't have the sub either, because I still wasn't sure if I was going through with the project. You mentioned a sub cutout hole of 10.9." would that still be okay to go by or should I wait until delivery of both items?
Not starting off so well,
Spense
swez on 02/11/2006 17:35:06
The sub often comes with a cutout template. Use that for your guide, when your sub comes in. If you cut the hole now and the 10.9" is off a little bit, (larger or smaller) you'll be singing the blues.
Consider this box as your "character building" project and to give you a feel for basic carpentry skill development. If the edges and joints are not flush, a belt sander or router can clean up these issues, if off by less than 1/8".
The first box is generally the hardest one to do. After a few boxes are under ones belt, we know the things to watch out for, that minimize extra labor.
Swez
swez on 02/15/2006 09:07:31
Any progress on your new sub enclsoure and such yet?
Swez
Resneps on 02/15/2006 11:53:32
I have all the materials and a workshop at my disposal, but I'm waiting on the termination cup and sub. I'll let you know and thanks for checking up on me.
Spense
swez on 02/15/2006 13:02:38
OK, cool...Did you resolve the panel fit issues resolved and get the box assembled yet?
Swez
Resneps on 03/20/2006 23:35:18
Swez,
sorry it has taken me to so long to respond as well as actually get to work on assembling the box. I finally got enough time to do everything this past week over my spring break and it sounds great. I know that if I added another 12 or an upgraded amp it would really thump, but for now everything sounds fine. I really have appreciated your help and hopefully you can dish out some more ideas because I really enjoy learning this stuff. So thanks!
-Spenser
swez on 03/21/2006 06:05:14
Yeah! Ya got things together now. Well done sir!
That sub can take some serious power. (500 watts RMS) The amps we discussed earlier in this post are probably not going to deliver adequate power. Question is, can you flip them and spring for an amp that will drive that sub to full potential?
One thing we probably have not mentioned yet, is tweaking the amp gain settings and get the most clean power from the amp you have now.
What HU are you using to power the amp and which amp are you using here? (Profile of Bazooka)
Swez
Resneps on 03/21/2006 10:10:48
The HU is the Aiwa CDC-X227 and I ended up using the profile amp @ 2 ohms which equals to about >350wrms. Tell me a bit about tweaking the gain and this "clean power" you speak of.... :).
Spenser
swez on 03/21/2006 12:00:19
I cannot find an installer's manual with specs on RCA output voltage. So, we'll have to wing it carefully to get the best resuts.
1. Set HU tone controls to flat (no boost/cut
2. Pop in a CD you know well and dial up the volume to ~80 of max on HU
3. Go to amp gain settings and start at minimum sensitivity setting (like 4.0 volts and gradually rotate the gain control toward maximum side of the control
4. I would anticipate the loudest and cleanest bass output will be around 1.5 - 2.0 volts here
You know when it's right, when bass is strong on big bass hits but the sub sounds clean and the amp can play continously w/o getting hot or shutting down.
NOTE: If amp gets hot, sub sounds very distorted or the amp shuts off periodically, the gain needs to be slightly decreased, to get clean power and no amp shut downs.
Warning: DO THIS VERY CAREFULLY. IF YOU SET GAIN MUCH BELOW ~2.0 VOLTS, THE AMP MAY SHUT OFF OR CREATE INTERNAL DAMAGE.
Swez
PS Do you have the manual for this amp? The gain range specs should be in there.
Resneps on 03/21/2006 12:34:01
I have a manual but since it is a cheaper amp, I don't believe it has much listing on gain settings at least as far as voltage ratings go. I'll check online some more and read the manual more closely but in the meantime.....
You mentioned the Alpine MRD-605 or 1005 as future amplifiers to own, are these still viable options for an upgrade in the future or should I be on the look out for some more? What are good brands to keep in mind? Basically anything you can tell me on how to improve the system that will give headroom for the future, including amps and HUs. Even though the car I am in will only last me a few more years, I would like to get equipment sooner or later that I can move into my next vehicle. Thanks for all your help and any advice is appreciated.
Spense
Resneps on 03/21/2006 12:44:02
I forgot to mention some other questions I had. As far as the crossover for the sub, should I set it a little above the lowest hz of the speakers or is there a better sounding way? I have these speakers installed and a pair of these just sitting around (if installing these would be better even though I don't see a real difference)
Also, with this new sub I am starting to notice a "squeeking" noice out of my rear speakers which I think might be the air pressure pushing them out of phase, especially since the sound doesn't occur when the sub is off. Any thoughts on how to improve that?
Finally, would it be good to put in sound deadening material so that it would improve the sound? Thanks again everyone
Spense
ttocs on 03/21/2006 13:10:30
for the squeeking noise you suspect is being caused by the subs air pressure, try wiring the subs backwards to see if it goes away. You can also try to leave a little space between the speaker and the rear deck by adding some washers. This will allow the air the subs are moving to get into the front easier.
Resneps on 03/21/2006 17:05:49
Here is the manual for the Aiwa HU
http://media-server.amazon.com/exec/drm/digital/moleproxy.cgi?name=QWl3YSBBaXdhIENEQy1YMjI3IEluLURhc2ggQ0QgUGxhe
WVyIE1hbnVhbA==&file=TUFOVUFMMDAwMDE0Nzg4LnBkZg==
swez on 03/21/2006 18:54:33
The Awia specs show the output voltage at RCA's to be 2.2 volts. Setting your amp gain between 2.0 and 2.5 volts should do the job.
The Pioneer speakers noted are low budget and power handling too. Leave those in the car, along with this HU. Plan on upgrading both when you flip (sell) the car.
The Alpine 605 is a fine option for this single sub application. The 1005 would not be optimal for a pair of this specific sub model. A pair of them will net 1 or 4 ohms, depending on the wiring configuration used. We'd have to look at 1 ohm stable amps if you went for a dual sub install later.
The Low Pass Filter for your sub amp, should be set between 80-100 Hz. This filter blocks highs we don't want coming out of the sub.
Your rear desk speakers are probably getting a lot of extra bass wave energy and it can cause cone breakup at higher bass levels. This can be countered by enclosing the rear speaker cones with baffles that give them their own air space.
Also, squeeks can be a sign of a leaky sub enclosure. If air leaks are present, box squeeks are common. You can check a sub enclosure for air leaks by press the cone in (gently) with your finger tips.
Test: Do this while the system is off.
If the sub returns to normal rest position slowly (a few seconds) you have a minor leaky box. If the box is well sealed, the cone slowly comes back to rest position immediately. If the box is very leaky, the sub will return to rest position almost immediately. A "smoke test" can easily help find the leaks.
Swez
PS Can you edit out the pioneer speaker links above? They caused the width of the post to stretch. A model number is sufficient here.
PSS Thanks ttocs, for that HU link. I looked for 20 minutes and could not find adequate info on that HU model. CLAP
Resneps on 03/21/2006 20:57:44
So how would I go about making the baffles for the rear speakers? I saw the tupperware link a few nights ago which seemed interesting yet viable. Anything else I need to know for this sound system? Thanks everyone
Spense
swez on 03/22/2006 00:53:59
Tupperware will work, but finding the right size can be a challenge. It's also a lot of fab work to get a good fit. A ready to use baffle to consider is:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Jm1GdyJThsQ/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?search=XTC&i=237XT65
They just drop right in. You can also drill a 1" dia hole in the side , add a small amount of polyfil and your rear speakers will not be overly affected by sub bass and have enough airspace (with hole) to go low, but not get whacked hard by sub waves.
The hole allows the rear speakers to breath and go low, but the polyfil blocks heavy bass waves from the sub.
Swez
PS Before you take the leap, make sure you know where the noise is coming from. It could be the sub enclosure, metal parts that are rattling or the rear deck speakers.
PSS Does this car have a flip down seat in the rear? If yes, drop it down and listen for this noise. If the noise is still present with the seat backrest in down position, the problem is not your rear speakers.
RMS Power at 2 Ohms 400 W x 1. The 600 (though I left the specs @ home) around, I think, @ 4 ohms 300 W x 1
and @ 2ohms 550 W x 1, but you should probably double check me on that. So my question is twofold: what would be the best way to wire these two in my car and also, what subwoofers would be apropos for the best possible sound. Right now I have the Profile hooked up to two Lightning Audio 10s @ 100 W apiece and it sounds fairly nice, but I am looking for more of a boom. Price Range, 100-300. Thanks and I really appreciate any help you can give me.
-Spenser
Replies (59)
swez on 01/30/2006 14:49:47
There is not a huge difference in amping power here form either amp. At 2 ohm loads, 400 vs 550 Wrms is almost a wash.
The sub(s) and enclosure design employed, will give you the most bang for your buck. Care to sell your Lightnings, the box and one amp, and use that money for a single 12" sub in a well designed box?
Many of us like the Alpine SWR series subs. They are well built, can take plenty of clean power and require minimal box space for sealed or ported enclosure designs. Yes, you can run dual 10's as well. It all depends on your music tastes, $$$ to spend and size of the enclosure you wish to work with.
With this power range, the most bang for the buck, would be a well matched ported enclosure. If you are handy with wood, or have friends to help out, we can show you how to make a modest amp, snort out fire.
Comments?
Swez
ttocs on 01/30/2006 15:33:00
you can always try a basscube by pg. It is a single band parametric eq for bass only. It will allow you add bass where you want it, they are new on ebay for around 100$
Resneps on 01/30/2006 21:26:01
So what you're saying is that the best choice of action would be to run just one amp and a well built sub/box combo? If that is the case, then I am all ears for either how to build or what style box i should get to make the amp "snort out fire." I'm really into bass heavy tracks particularly rap and some professional bass music but mainly I listen to all types of genres. I just want the thump without spending too much cash. Any more suggestions? your first ones were great.
swez on 01/31/2006 06:32:51
OK, before we get too heavy into this project, let's define your tastes for bass.
Rap and Hip-Hop bass are easy to do with a larger format sub. (12, 15" sub) The deep, low rumble and long tones require a large cone and good, steady power from the amp. Here, a port tuned enclosure, will do the job just fine. This box design requires a Sub Sonic Filter, (SSF) to block out signals below port tuning frequencies. (~30 Hz and lower)
Now, you mentioned professional bass music too. Not sure what you mean by that one. Stanley Clarke comes to mind as does a track from Yanni, Live at the Accropolis. Meaning rapid bass runs, clicky, slap bass and harmonics. Is that what you mean?
The Profile CA600M and Bazooka ELA300.1 amps are a low budget wanna bees. Looked up the specs and if this is what you have, we can make it work to a degree, but a better amp in the future, may be in the cards. Consider the sub and enclosure as the 1st upgrade. A solid amp kit can always be added later, if the Profile does not suffice. This what you have now?
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=proca600m
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=12837
Say more, before we get down to the nitty gritty OK?
Swez
UKinstaller on 01/31/2006 09:58:04
that amp advertises that it can run at 2 ohms, but it can't. whatever setup you plan on doing, plan on running it at 4 ohms. at 2 ohms, it will shut off all the time.
-UK
Resneps on 01/31/2006 10:05:49
Those specs look about right. So I went with the crappy amps . . . that's the problem with researching after you buy, impulse buying will kill you. I meant "bass mekanix" or "bass engineers" when I meant professional bass. I do listen to Victor Wooten style stuff sometimes but that's beside the point.
So you are saying that I need to stick with the profile and get rid of the bazooka? I don't mind the amp upgrade, but for now let's just make it work with the sub and enclosure upgrade. Also, we should probably stick with the 12" as I have limited trunk space at certain times in the year when I travel back and forth from home and school. Thanks again guys....
swez on 01/31/2006 14:24:13
Low budget amps are often crappy amps too. "Ya get what ya paid fer" is pretty much the golden rule in this line of work.
Based on UK's inputs and some addition readings I did after posting earlier, that Profile does heat up easily at 2 ohm loads and will shut down to cool frequently, when pushed hard. They offer some type of externall cooling system to help dissapate heat, but that's just a sign of a poor design... "period''.
OK, the Bazooka & Profile amps are marginal at best. Set the Profile aside and we'll work with the Bazooka for now. It claims 400 Wrms @ 2 ohms, but it too can have heat problems if the gain settings are not done correctly.
OK, let's consider a stout 12" sub here. The Alpine SWR-1242D is a solid performer at a reasonable price. It is rated at 500 Watts (RMS) and is a DVC sub. (Dual Voice Coils) Have a look:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-TP7jgzrNcwp/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=500SWR1242
Best price on the web: $117.00 + S/H
http://www.techronics.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=2167&aff=45847
A ported box of about 1.5 cf (internal) should give plenty of deep bass bump here. Tuning the port to about 30-36 Hz., will give lots of deep bass loading on a trunk mounted system.
This sub is one of the best buys out there for this power range. It's durable, dependable and delivers solid lows in a well designed enclosure. If that amp is really worth it's salt, it should make this sub shout pretty good. If not, that will be the next thing to upgrade.
What HU are you running now? (HU = radio/CD player)
Swez
Resneps on 02/1/2006 09:32:23
Wait, if the amp is rated 400 Wrms and the sub is rated 200 - 500 Wrms, then isn't there some kind of discrepancy there? You're the expert, I bought bad amps : ) I'll have to check the HU when I get in the car for work today and i'll let you know this afternoon, but I do know it's an Aiwa ___________ that's 180 max and runs 45 x 4 max. It's about 4 yrs old but I have yet to have any kind of problem with it.
About the box....how should i go about constructing it or "tuning" it. Crutchfield offers a how to section, but it's vague and leaves room for mistakes on my part, could you help me there? I guess it would it just be easier for me to ask you to tell me how to do everything.... : )
ryan2 on 02/1/2006 09:35:01
Resneps, I have a feeling your gonna be like me. By this I mean your gonna go the next steop up to a good sub(s) but in a year or two u will want the best.
I went from 2 old school 12" MTX(free),2 12" Jl Audio WO's($600-700 w/ amp, box, instal, adn wiring), to my single 12" Brahma ($400).
I suggest you wait a little bit and save up ur money. Will you be happy with 1 or 2 Alpine SWS's? Yes, but u'll want more in the long run.
Also read these forums and the12volt.com and learn how to install amps, subs, wiring, and make ur own box if you dont already. That alone can save you $100.
I know its hard to wait but like I said in the long run you will be saving money trust me.
swez on 02/1/2006 11:13:58
Ryan's got a point and worth noting his words to the wise.
However, I did say Alpine SWR sub series. Big difference in the two series and to compare a $400.00 Brahma to a $100.00 Alpine SWS, is just no contest.
The SWR's are rated 200-500 Wrms as a guide to operation and performance of this sub. Interpretation... 200 RMS min power to get this sub to talk, 500 RMS will make it shout.
Yes, can help you with a box design as well. If you have the tools and some woodworking skills now, then you can give it a shot. It's about $50-60.00 in basic materials. However, you have to cut panels that are square and parallel. A good table saw is best, but good results can be had from a Skil saw and a straight shoe guide.
What tools do you have now? (or can borrow)
Swez
Resneps on 02/1/2006 12:18:00
Thanks for your advice Ryan, I've definitely churned that thought around as well. After reading reviews on the SWRs though, I feel that this might be where I would be satisfied, I don't really want noise violations at night, but I do want something that will really pound when it comes time to crank it up.
Swez, I should have no problem borrowing any tools you can possibly throw out, i live in a college town with plenty of friends and professors nearby, so getting the right tools won't be an issue.....If you have some links for box construction that would be great..
Since we are kinda revamping the whole system, what kind of amp should I be on the look out for? I probably couldn't right now but one right now, but I have a few items I could sell (12" kenwoods, the 10"s, and a couple of amps if anyone is interested), and a job so in time......Either way, I think i should start getting an idea of what to look for.
Finally, I really appreciate all the help that everyone has been giving so keep up the good work. Thanks
swez on 02/1/2006 22:37:09
Since I like Alpine and believe them to be a quality product, good features and priced in a range that won't break your piggy bank, consider the Alpine MRD-M605.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/viewitem.php?id=3733
This amp is a bit strong for low budget subs. However, with a careful setup plan, this amp, mated with a single SWR series 12, should go the distance and give clean bass when you get the urge to turn it up more than a few clicks past "stupid loud".
This amp has a selectable SSF, a digital Low Pass Filter network and even a variable speed cooling fan. These are great features to have in an amp at this price.
Comments?
Swez
Resneps on 02/2/2006 00:14:57
Sounds great, would it be okay to get an amp of comparable power or is Alpine a good choice because it looks cool. Many amps say they are rated at the same power levels but are much cheaper. I understand that some amps don't have "clean" power, but how could I tell which would be best?
Also, is there a limit to the amount of questions I have cause I'm not only trying to set up my system, but I want to learn as much as possible for friends or future systems. Just wondering.
So, another set of questions.......
I have limited trunk space at about 3 or 4 spots of the year when i travel from my school to my home, so is there a way to design everything for either easy moving or to be as space efficient as possible? Thanks....
Finally, when and how should i start constructing the box or are there more questions that need to be answered?
Thanks again Swez
swez on 02/2/2006 13:59:07
Quote: "Sounds great, would it be okay to get an amp of comparable power or is Alpine a good choice because it looks cool."
Why would anyone suggest any product based on looks alone? An Audiobahn Rep might... but few others.
I suggested the Alpine series as I have worked extensively with other guys on this forum and another, with Alpine products. All report the products from Alpine to be above average in quality, performance and if you shop well, a very fair price too. No, it's not Nakamichi or MacIntosh, but neither are the prices. I can pretty much say the same for JBL, Infinity and Pioneer Premier products. They all have a niche' in this game, but knowing the strength and weaknesses in each product line takes a long time to ferret out.
As for a sub enclosure for your Alpine 12", if you go with sealed, it will require the least space in your trunk and still give good SPL, great SQ and handle that amp mentioned. Sealed and ported specs are available off the link below:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500SWR1242.PDF
Look at the optimum section for recommended enclosure specs for either sealed or vented boxes. Personally, I would suggest starting off with the sealed box design as it is easy to make, small & compact and gives a good blend of deep bass SPL and good, punchy bass as well.
They suggest 13.0" H, 13.0" W and 12.5" D, 3/4" MDF board. These are the external dimensions and net an internal airspace of 0.85 cf when finished. We can manipulate the H,W & D to fit your vehicle better, but in the case of H & W dimensions, I'd prefer them at 14" x 14" x 11.0" D. That nets a 0.79 cf internal, with the sub displacement (0.071 cf) factored in already.
Note: The factory cutout dia is 10.9". ( a fuzz under 11.0" dia.) A 14" x 14" baffle face, leaves more meat on baffle board for the cutout and sub supporting frame too.
Swez
Resneps on 02/2/2006 16:50:08
Thanks again Swez. Any other advice on building this sucker before I get started? Also, sorry about the amp comment, i hadn't gotten alot of sleep so that sentence didn't really make any sense to me either.
About the amp itself, right now that would be a "wish list" kinda thing, but I am going to start saving up for it or its next generation, depends on when I get the money, but you stated earlier that you could make "a modest amp snort fire." Could you tell me about that in regards to the Bazooka amp that I have now?
swez on 02/2/2006 19:16:15
Well, that amp would have to be tested for actual performance and verify what it can do as it sits. From there, it would be a process of finding a pair of very high efficiency subs and designing a box of considerable size and weight, to sqeeze every dB of bass that amp can deliver. The problem is, this would be pretty much a 1 note wonder design. (Bandpass) Most SQL guys would never use a BP box because of its obvious limitations. Can get a real nice Spike of SPL at the tuning frequency band, but the rest of the bass would be pretty much tuned out.
Loud? Oh yeah... but very time consuming to build a good BP box and high efficiency subs are pretty limited in full bass range performance too.
However, if you wanted to get the most bang from the Alpine sub(s) and that amp, do the vented system per specs noted in that link above. The only thing to add, would be a SSF to the input side of your Bazooka amp. That is needed to protect your subs from harmful frequencies, below port tuning freq.
It's best to plan your system goals early and build on a solid platform good amps, subs and speakers to begin with. Otherwise, we end up spending limited funds for junk and have to replace it later... hoping we can off load the junk purchased earlier.
I prefer to coach guys with an "INVESTMENT" strategy right from the beginning. Planning, fabrication and installing is about 80% for the desired end results. The rest is gear related. Delaying the itch to buy now and pay 2x later, is just a poor investment strategy. We've all done it once... when "Bass Fever" corners us at the audio shop. But resist that demon and get the good stuff first time out.
Swez
PS Ever have a case of "Buyer's Remorse"? Meaning, we see something we like, it sounded good in the showroom, we buy it, install it and feel that sinking regret when we realize the obvious... "This is not what I was hoping for?"
I "hate that feeling" and will now take my time to research, do my homework and shop for the best value and products I can afford. Now, we can enjoy the "good stuff" for many years to come and build off a solid platform of quality products.
See my point? BTDT, avoid same.
Resneps on 02/3/2006 15:10:28
Thanks for your advice Swez. So in your opinion would it even be worth my time to try and set up the SWR now, or should i just wait til I can get an amp that can really push 1 or 2? Like you said, I don't want to rush into anything. Truthfully, which you can tell, I don't know too much about car audio, Rms's, watts, and amps, but i do know that I want the system to sound great and cost less. And I want to get it right the first time. Would it be possible for you to help me go through this thing start to finish?
swez on 02/3/2006 17:23:36
Frankly, if I were in your shoes now, I would look for ways to optimize the gear on hand. If your subs are pretty high in efficiency already, (upper 80's dB of SPL @ 1 watt/1 meter) we can work with that for now.
1. What is the model number of your subs?
2. Are these Single voice coil, 4 or 8 ohm subs?
I would consider making/buying a better enclosure for them. I need to look at the driver specs for your subs. They may not be suitable for port tuned enclosures, so to simplify matters, a sealed box system will work. Let me look at the driver specs and recommendations, before we move into this level or re-work.
You mentioned Lightning Audio 2 x 10's right? The low power handling (100 watts/sub) suggests them to be low budget and just not capable of pounding out deep low bass at high SPL levels. Are these the Bolt B3. 10.4 or Bolt B3. 10.8's? If yes, these are sealed only.
Moving up to a better quality and power handling sub, will make a difference. That's why I have suggested the single 12" Alpine. Low cost, high quality, can be used in ported or sealed boxes and you can always add more amping power and a 2nd sub later for even more boom. If you want more boom, it's all about RMS power from the amp and the cones' ability to move air efficiently.
Can you measure the external box dimensions and report them in your next reply? I would need Height, Width, Depth and wood thickness information here. If there is a center divider board, advise on that as well.
Thanks,
Swez
Resneps on 02/4/2006 14:36:15
P3.10.4 SVC @ 4ohms, 150Wrms
I like your idea for upgrading to the SWR because of the ability to add on later, but would either the Bazooka ELA 300.1 or the Profile 600M be able to keep up with it?
For the box I already have it's 12 x 27 3/4 x 12 1/4 x and 3/4" MDF. Also there is a center divider.
Also you asked earlier about the HU...Aiwa CDC-X227. It's old and time to replace it. Anything else you need to know?
swez on 02/4/2006 21:09:01
http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/boxcalcs.asp
Run your numbers on the sealed sub enclosure volume calculator. I came up with an interior of about 0.835 ft^3/chamber. These Bolt subs are for sealed designs only. Porting them will not be worth the effort and may destroy them too. Right now, you are getting about the best they can do with amp and box used.
Yes, I think you would be well served to jump into the Alpine SWR-1242d sub, ported box design. Both amps can be tried and see which one performs best for now. A Sub Sonic Filter is needed to block lows under the port tuning frequency, but not a huge expense here either.
When you are ready to upgrade, all that would be needed is a stronger amp and perhaps a 2nd matching sub/enclosure. Some guys often buy duplicate amps and run 1 sub per amp too. That way, you can get the boom desired in managable stages.
There are several ways to do this project. It all depends on $$$ available, patience and well matched amp/sub(s)/enclosures.
What say you now?
Swez
Resneps on 02/5/2006 01:36:57
Swez,
You're the freakin man.....Let's go ahead and do the SWR sub and enclosure for now and I'll keep an eye out for amps in my price range that will make it even better and allow for upgrading later....
So.....that's what I say now
So what say you now? again....
Spenser
swez on 02/5/2006 06:27:12
A solid plan Spenser !!! This plan gives you modularity in design, a compact enclosure and the ability to upgrade as cash flow permits.
The new SWR sub will definitely give you quality bass performance too. It's one of the better values out there, for well under $200.00.
You may want to give some thought to a full range amp for your front stage speakers as well. With that much bass in the back, the HU amps will not keep up. We can discuss that matter along the path too. (Just planting a few seeds for a later harvest)
Also, do you know what the output current for your ALT is? The BAT has a CCA rating number also. It would be good to look at that aspect now, so we know what other issues will need to be addressed as you build this system to concert level performance, in your ride.
Check the BAT sticker and see what CCA rating you have in there now OK? How old is that BAT anyway?
Swez
PS Think of this system as a "portable investment". Keep all your stock gear handy as when you change vehicles someday, you can take all the goodies out, put stock back in and keep the rest for your next ride.
Resneps on 02/5/2006 15:49:10
The BAT is about 8-9 months old and CCA rating is 600. anything else?
Well then how do we get started on this sub/enclosure situation? Also should I go ahead and purchase another more powerful amp kit to run the amp I have now in preperation for the next level amp I get? And what about the full range amp for the 4 other speakers? Hope that's not too many questions. I'm all ears
Spense
swez on 02/6/2006 07:09:21
Do you happen to know the ALT output capacity? From a quick lookup, I see 80A and 90A OEM models, depending on the engine and accessory package. The car needs about 45-50A to operate main devices. So, we have some capacity available for amplifiers, but the BAT will have to make up the difference.
FYI: Things like light dimming, "may be" an issue on deep sub hits at full power and car is at idle speeds. The full range amp current draw is not as severe, but when we combine both together, the electricals may end up working harder to maintain adequate power under high load conditions.
To combat that scenario, we have several options to consider:
1. Low power full range amp, high efficiency speakers
2. Mid-power full range amp, medium eff speakers
3. Upgrade the electricals as needed, to meet new load demands
Having said all that now, these are worst case scenarios. Some fixes are easy and inexpensive. Major electrical upgrade can be pricey. It all depends on how hard you push your audio system... especially at night with lights, HVAC blower, rear window defogger and other high current demand devices. (most noticable at idle speeds and brake lights on) Are we clear on these items?
OK, now we can move on to your sub enclosure. I suggest a sealed box for now. It's the easiest to build, cheap material costs and will not take up much cargo space. I gave dimensional details on an earlier post.
As for your amp and wiring kit, A #4 gage wiring kit is good up to 100 amperes of current draw. The sub amp mention will pull about 50-55A at full power. A solid 2 channel amp will draw between 30-35 amperes at full power. If you go with a strong 4 channel amp, add at least 10-15 amperes more. Keep these numbers in mind as we look at amping options. Especially for the full range amp used.
Finally, I don't wish to scare you off this project. However, I want you to see the complexity up front and choose products that will deliver, but not kill your wallet and forfeit your 1st male born child too. SMILE
Swez
PS Are you ready to get the new sub and build a box soon?
Resneps on 02/6/2006 21:38:15
Swez
I'm down to get started, but I still couldn't find the info on the ALT. I'm pretty sure its whatever the specs say it should be because the previous owner left no documentation of replacing it or anything involving work on it.
You mentioned the 3 things that may occur to fix a possible future electrical issue, is one of the 3 a better choice or is this a "see what happens" kinda thing?
I'm all ears on whatever needs to be done and I do understand that this could be complex but I'm more than willing to learn...Thanks for your help.
Spense
swez on 02/7/2006 00:12:39
Well, we won't really know how your car will respond to that sub amp noted before. It may be fine as is, need some larger wires installed or step up for more reserve power. Most of this will depend on your listening habits.
If you boom lots of bass with lights on, heater running and a few more large current devices going too, light dimming is a definite possibility. If you have a voltage meter on your dash display, watch the numbers and see what voltage values come up. If only a "dummy light" for voltage, you can always monitor voltage from the cigarette lighter port.
Anyway, plan on getting your sub, amp and wiring kit as you can. We can work on the box design now, as we already know the sub specs and dimensions for your box. I would think a 48" X 48" X 3/4" sheet of MDF should be adequate. Then some wood glue, coarse thread drywall screws, (#8 x 1-5/8") and a speaker termination cup, are a good start. A tube of laytex caulk is also needed to seal all internal joints. This will be a sealed box design. So, it needs to be air leak free as possible.
Are you ready to map out your sub box layout and cutting plans?
Swez
Resneps on 02/7/2006 10:03:44
Yes, let's get it started. I do have one quick question about the box....why make it sealed instead of ported? I understand that ported is a larger box and more difficult to build, but isn't the sound louder?
Spense
PS - I'm fine with a sealed box, time and effort are keys in that, I am just wondering for knowledge sake..thanks
swez on 02/7/2006 16:42:32
Let's stay with the sealed version on your first go round. You can always buy a full sheet of MDF and make a ported one from the materials left over and compare the differences in SPL and performance. Fair enough?
OK, Alpine suggests a 13.0" H x 13.0" W x 12.5" D, using 3/4" MDF. That makes the sub mounting panel (12-1/4" x 12-1/4") and a 10.9" hole in the center.
Your cuts list:
2 front and rear panels: 12.1/4" x 12-1/4" x 3/4" thickness
2 side panels: 13.0 H x 13.0" W x 3/4" thick
2 top/bottom panels: 12.1/4" H x 12.1/4"" W x 3/4" thick
The front panel will have a sub cutout hole of 10.9" (just under 10-15/16") inches in diameter. This is the most difficult part to do correctly. Too small a hole and sub won't fit. (sanding/filing the hole
is needed) Too large a hole, and there are potential air gaps. (these would have to be sealed with silicone)
Use #8 x 1-5/8" coarse thread drywall screws. They should be pre-drilled with a 1/8" pilot hole to prevent wood splitting. Three screws per panel joint, should be adequate spacing here. The glue will do the rest.
Your corner screws should be about 1-1/2" from each corner, to prevent wood tear out and one in the center as well. These will be spaced 3/8" on center, inside each joining edge. Glue all joined surfaces with Carpenter's wood glue. After the screws are torqued down, use a damp rag to wipe off the excess.
Tip: For a nice finished look, I recess (countersink) the screw heads, just below flush and then fill with dry wall compound. A little sanding afterwards, nets a very nice, dimple free surface. Suitable for painting, carpeting or laminate.
After the box is assembled, allow glue to cure over night and then caulk all inner seams with silicone or latex sealer. Lit that cure a few hours too, before installing your sub.
Finally, you'll need a termination cup to connect speaker wires from the sub, to the amp. This can be mounted on the side or back panel, depending on your preferences. I like the "binding post" style cups. for ease of use and they look good too. Forget the "spring clip" version as these often fail and can cause shorts. (Seal the cup inside with caulk to prevent air leaks too.
This one will do nice: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-293
This one even has a fuse in it. That's a nice feature. A 15A fuse will protect to 500 Watts. Use #12 gage speaker wiring inside and outside the box.
OK bud, that pretty much covers things... are you ready to get your box built?
Swez
Victor on 02/7/2006 16:52:00
carpenter swez.....GRIN
swez on 02/7/2006 17:28:35
Carpenter, electrician, plumber, audio tech, go-fer, salesman, negotiator, Dad, a good son, coach, mentor and blithering idiot.... Yeah, I can do all this and more. SMILE
Swez
Victor on 02/7/2006 17:46:13
seems like u are a crowd....lol..GRIN
Resneps on 02/8/2006 10:00:43
Completely ready, but because of school and work I probably won't be able to get started until this Friday when I have some free time. But I have one question: do you possess any pictures or know of a website with photos of the actual box construction? I think that would go a long way in fabricating this as seeing is sometimes better than hearing. Thanks, and I'll let you know how it goes...
Spense
swez on 02/8/2006 11:30:37
You're in luck... Just what the student needs, pictures and tuitorials!
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/reviews/20030701/build_box.html
Swez
Resneps on 02/8/2006 16:18:02
Thanks Swez. I'll let you know if I have any more questions. Hopefully I will have it done by the end of this weekend....Another question.....where would be the cheapest spot to by materials and the subwoofer?
Spense
swez on 02/8/2006 18:06:15
"Let your finger's do the walking through the Yellow Pages" under lumberyards or better still, call Lowe's or Home Depot for prices.
You/ll want:
3/4" thick MDF
48" x 48" if possible
48" x 98" is a full sheet
BTW, What are you studying in school these days?
Swez
Resneps on 02/8/2006 22:29:35
I'm actually a Psychology major with a minor in exercise science....nothing technology related, which probably makes you feel better that I won't be fixing your computer one day :)
Spense
swez on 02/9/2006 05:23:05
Hummm, interesting study plan... if I could do it all over again, that is one field I would have looked at more closely. The mind, chemical patterns and how the brain processes events, are keen interests to me the past 10 years or so.
There's a lot of good medicine developing at this stage of the game. Not sure I buy into the "suppressed memories" theories though. Seems like many experts I respect, are calling this one to the carpet. It's a good thing too, as many who have been used as "crash test dummies" come out worse than they came in. The only ones that seem to benefit from this form of VooDoo, are the therapists. (steady flow of clients)
Swez
Resneps on 02/9/2006 09:51:45
Luckily I don't really buy into that psychoanalysis with Freud liking his mother and all that....I'm more of a humanistic (people make decisions) and behavioral (people act on decisions) kind of guy. Those sounds like common sense, but you wouldn't believe how long it takes to learn "common sense." Plus, those therapists are psychiatrists, doctors and psychologists with a bit of greed mixed in (not all, just some). I'm doing the straight psychology thing so that I can counsel people, not make money, but making money doesn't hurt either : )
Ironically enough though, here's a little secret, people don't always need psychologists or psychiatrists or any kind of "ist," they really just need a listener. So in that way schooling isn't always a prerequisite to holding a client base, sometimes you just have to be a nice guy that people like complaining to, which, minus the schooling, looks like you already have goin on for you. I feel better already
Spense
P.S. I'm picking up supplies today.....When should I purchase the subwoofer, the Crutchfield site and you mentioned "making sure the sub fit." Do I need to dely building until I possess the sub?
swez on 02/9/2006 11:21:53
In my own experience and observations, "common sense" is not all that common until well past 40 years of age. (Ol man Swez is 50 now, mind you) By then, we've seen a lot, tried many things that didn't work and hopefully, learned from them.
I don't have the "sheep skin" to practice therapy to date, but after many years of "talk therapy", (cognative problem solving) I already know that most people just want someone to listen, give them encoragement, a few well time tips and let them b****h it outta their systems. They are even willing to pay big money to get that relief. (Dr. Laura says "b****hing" is OK)
I think you will do well if you remember one premise: "We have 2 ears and only 1 mouth... that generally means we should listen 2x as many times as we talk". Now, if I just shut up a while... you can get your project started. SMILE
Swez
Resneps on 02/10/2006 01:35:15
I have another question about the wiring itself....
Right now I have an 8 gauge wiring kit in my car and you suggested putting in a 4 gauge. Is it necessary to go ahead and do that or should I wait until I am ready to purchase the amp? Also, if I am to put it in, since you mentioned running two amps (a two/four channel & the mono Alpine) should I invest in a D-block or is there an alternative?
I got the MDF today and have tons left over, they didn't offer the half size, so if you want to get me the specs on the ported, I could do that....and hopefully I can build the thing this Saturday...I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks Swez
Spense
swez on 02/10/2006 12:08:07
Use the #8 for now as the amps you have on hand, only need a #8 line.
Yes, a good D-block would be the proper way to go when running dual amps. www.knukonceptz.com has a nice selection of wires, D-blocks, fuses and pretty much anything you'll need as you build for the future.
I suggest that you stick with the sealed box design for this initial install. If you went ported, your present amps don't have Sub Sonic Filters. That puts your sub at risk in ported box designs. The new amp you get later, should have SSF onboard, then go ported.
Besides, sealed boxes net nice, tight bass performance. If you went ported now, and did not have SSF's to block signals below port tuning frequency, you can damage this sub.
Swez
PS Since you already have the #8 in place, use this as a "stringer" to pull your #4 gage later. Save the #8 as it will be useful when you add a mid/high amp later.
The D-block you'll want, should have a pair of #4 ports and perhaps a pair of #8's as well. This way, you can feed both amps properly off one block and power line feeder.
Resneps on 02/11/2006 12:14:54
Swez
i'm looking at the two side panels and it doesn't seem as if there will be enough overlap to create the "seal" that seems necessary. Am I just going about it wrong or do I need to go get a larger square of wood? Also, I have not purchased the sub or terminal cup, should I wait on construction until I have both?
Spense
swez on 02/11/2006 13:29:53
The side panels are the "capping panels". The top/bottom and front/ rear panels fit between the side capping panels. It's a sandwich we call a "butt joints". Can you see how they fit in tis manner now?
You can build the box and just drill a 1/4" hole for the wires from amp to sub. This will work for now, until you get the termination cap discussed earlier. Use wire nuts for now, to connect the sub (pigtails) to the amp wiring.
The sub should have pigtails and jumpers installed per instructions that come with the sub. Use the "parallel" wiring configuration, so that you get a 2 ohm net load to your present amp of choice. (Profile or Bazook)
The pigtail off the sub, should be long enough to reach the subs and have a few inches more, to go outside the box.
When your termination cup is purchased and in hand, remove the sub and pigtail, make your hole for the cup, attach wires to cup and observe polarity as you wire to the sub/cup and amp.
See the picture?
Swez
Resneps on 02/11/2006 13:44:54
I do understand now.....slight problem, i don't have the sub either, because I still wasn't sure if I was going through with the project. You mentioned a sub cutout hole of 10.9." would that still be okay to go by or should I wait until delivery of both items?
Not starting off so well,
Spense
swez on 02/11/2006 17:35:06
The sub often comes with a cutout template. Use that for your guide, when your sub comes in. If you cut the hole now and the 10.9" is off a little bit, (larger or smaller) you'll be singing the blues.
Consider this box as your "character building" project and to give you a feel for basic carpentry skill development. If the edges and joints are not flush, a belt sander or router can clean up these issues, if off by less than 1/8".
The first box is generally the hardest one to do. After a few boxes are under ones belt, we know the things to watch out for, that minimize extra labor.
Swez
swez on 02/15/2006 09:07:31
Any progress on your new sub enclsoure and such yet?
Swez
Resneps on 02/15/2006 11:53:32
I have all the materials and a workshop at my disposal, but I'm waiting on the termination cup and sub. I'll let you know and thanks for checking up on me.
Spense
swez on 02/15/2006 13:02:38
OK, cool...Did you resolve the panel fit issues resolved and get the box assembled yet?
Swez
Resneps on 03/20/2006 23:35:18
Swez,
sorry it has taken me to so long to respond as well as actually get to work on assembling the box. I finally got enough time to do everything this past week over my spring break and it sounds great. I know that if I added another 12 or an upgraded amp it would really thump, but for now everything sounds fine. I really have appreciated your help and hopefully you can dish out some more ideas because I really enjoy learning this stuff. So thanks!
-Spenser
swez on 03/21/2006 06:05:14
Yeah! Ya got things together now. Well done sir!
That sub can take some serious power. (500 watts RMS) The amps we discussed earlier in this post are probably not going to deliver adequate power. Question is, can you flip them and spring for an amp that will drive that sub to full potential?
One thing we probably have not mentioned yet, is tweaking the amp gain settings and get the most clean power from the amp you have now.
What HU are you using to power the amp and which amp are you using here? (Profile of Bazooka)
Swez
Resneps on 03/21/2006 10:10:48
The HU is the Aiwa CDC-X227 and I ended up using the profile amp @ 2 ohms which equals to about >350wrms. Tell me a bit about tweaking the gain and this "clean power" you speak of.... :).
Spenser
swez on 03/21/2006 12:00:19
I cannot find an installer's manual with specs on RCA output voltage. So, we'll have to wing it carefully to get the best resuts.
1. Set HU tone controls to flat (no boost/cut
2. Pop in a CD you know well and dial up the volume to ~80 of max on HU
3. Go to amp gain settings and start at minimum sensitivity setting (like 4.0 volts and gradually rotate the gain control toward maximum side of the control
4. I would anticipate the loudest and cleanest bass output will be around 1.5 - 2.0 volts here
You know when it's right, when bass is strong on big bass hits but the sub sounds clean and the amp can play continously w/o getting hot or shutting down.
NOTE: If amp gets hot, sub sounds very distorted or the amp shuts off periodically, the gain needs to be slightly decreased, to get clean power and no amp shut downs.
Warning: DO THIS VERY CAREFULLY. IF YOU SET GAIN MUCH BELOW ~2.0 VOLTS, THE AMP MAY SHUT OFF OR CREATE INTERNAL DAMAGE.
Swez
PS Do you have the manual for this amp? The gain range specs should be in there.
Resneps on 03/21/2006 12:34:01
I have a manual but since it is a cheaper amp, I don't believe it has much listing on gain settings at least as far as voltage ratings go. I'll check online some more and read the manual more closely but in the meantime.....
You mentioned the Alpine MRD-605 or 1005 as future amplifiers to own, are these still viable options for an upgrade in the future or should I be on the look out for some more? What are good brands to keep in mind? Basically anything you can tell me on how to improve the system that will give headroom for the future, including amps and HUs. Even though the car I am in will only last me a few more years, I would like to get equipment sooner or later that I can move into my next vehicle. Thanks for all your help and any advice is appreciated.
Spense
Resneps on 03/21/2006 12:44:02
I forgot to mention some other questions I had. As far as the crossover for the sub, should I set it a little above the lowest hz of the speakers or is there a better sounding way? I have these speakers installed and a pair of these just sitting around (if installing these would be better even though I don't see a real difference)
Also, with this new sub I am starting to notice a "squeeking" noice out of my rear speakers which I think might be the air pressure pushing them out of phase, especially since the sound doesn't occur when the sub is off. Any thoughts on how to improve that?
Finally, would it be good to put in sound deadening material so that it would improve the sound? Thanks again everyone
Spense
ttocs on 03/21/2006 13:10:30
for the squeeking noise you suspect is being caused by the subs air pressure, try wiring the subs backwards to see if it goes away. You can also try to leave a little space between the speaker and the rear deck by adding some washers. This will allow the air the subs are moving to get into the front easier.
Resneps on 03/21/2006 17:05:49
Here is the manual for the Aiwa HU
http://media-server.amazon.com/exec/drm/digital/moleproxy.cgi?name=QWl3YSBBaXdhIENEQy1YMjI3IEluLURhc2ggQ0QgUGxhe
WVyIE1hbnVhbA==&file=TUFOVUFMMDAwMDE0Nzg4LnBkZg==
swez on 03/21/2006 18:54:33
The Awia specs show the output voltage at RCA's to be 2.2 volts. Setting your amp gain between 2.0 and 2.5 volts should do the job.
The Pioneer speakers noted are low budget and power handling too. Leave those in the car, along with this HU. Plan on upgrading both when you flip (sell) the car.
The Alpine 605 is a fine option for this single sub application. The 1005 would not be optimal for a pair of this specific sub model. A pair of them will net 1 or 4 ohms, depending on the wiring configuration used. We'd have to look at 1 ohm stable amps if you went for a dual sub install later.
The Low Pass Filter for your sub amp, should be set between 80-100 Hz. This filter blocks highs we don't want coming out of the sub.
Your rear desk speakers are probably getting a lot of extra bass wave energy and it can cause cone breakup at higher bass levels. This can be countered by enclosing the rear speaker cones with baffles that give them their own air space.
Also, squeeks can be a sign of a leaky sub enclosure. If air leaks are present, box squeeks are common. You can check a sub enclosure for air leaks by press the cone in (gently) with your finger tips.
Test: Do this while the system is off.
If the sub returns to normal rest position slowly (a few seconds) you have a minor leaky box. If the box is well sealed, the cone slowly comes back to rest position immediately. If the box is very leaky, the sub will return to rest position almost immediately. A "smoke test" can easily help find the leaks.
Swez
PS Can you edit out the pioneer speaker links above? They caused the width of the post to stretch. A model number is sufficient here.
PSS Thanks ttocs, for that HU link. I looked for 20 minutes and could not find adequate info on that HU model. CLAP
Resneps on 03/21/2006 20:57:44
So how would I go about making the baffles for the rear speakers? I saw the tupperware link a few nights ago which seemed interesting yet viable. Anything else I need to know for this sound system? Thanks everyone
Spense
swez on 03/22/2006 00:53:59
Tupperware will work, but finding the right size can be a challenge. It's also a lot of fab work to get a good fit. A ready to use baffle to consider is:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Jm1GdyJThsQ/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?search=XTC&i=237XT65
They just drop right in. You can also drill a 1" dia hole in the side , add a small amount of polyfil and your rear speakers will not be overly affected by sub bass and have enough airspace (with hole) to go low, but not get whacked hard by sub waves.
The hole allows the rear speakers to breath and go low, but the polyfil blocks heavy bass waves from the sub.
Swez
PS Before you take the leap, make sure you know where the noise is coming from. It could be the sub enclosure, metal parts that are rattling or the rear deck speakers.
PSS Does this car have a flip down seat in the rear? If yes, drop it down and listen for this noise. If the noise is still present with the seat backrest in down position, the problem is not your rear speakers.
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