People have told me to get bass blockers at 200, others say at 500-600 for my Alpine sps-100a speakers. They're rated at 50hz-30khz, so couldn't I just get bass blockers at 50? Also for my subs, people tell me to but low-pass for 100, but if I did that and put bass blockers for 200, 500-600, isn't there a whole domain of frequencies that won't even be played than?
Replies (16)
compvr15s on 01/4/2006 23:16:48
you wont need a filter for your subs, almost ever amp on the market mono-or multichannel, has built in cross overs... mono amps of course only have lowpass crossovers say upto 200hz, whatever you have this set to your subs will play that point and below normally, anything above that point will be hugely reduced, this is where your interior speakers come into play... as for the alpines i would go kinda high here because you are working with a 4inch woofer, not going to get much midbass at all from these.you are trying to achieve a blend here, you want everything to flow together for a smooth sound
swez on 01/5/2006 00:01:16
Yes, Bass blockers are very appropriate for small format, Midrange speakers.
This is a little bit of smoke and mirrors on Alpine's specs. (Rare for Alpine to play this game) At very low power, these speaker may do 50 Hz. But, the SPL output will be so minimal below about 200 Hz., it's better to filter them.
How much power do you plan to throw at them? I see 25 watts RMS on the specs with a peak of 125 watts. That's just plain NUTZ for such a small motor system and cone. One might come close in a port tuned enclosure, (to 50 Hz.) but in a door or dash, ain't gonna happen w/o major modifications.
Finally, I'd hope you can use some larger format, MB speakers in the rear stage. A 6.5" , 6x8 or 6x9" will give nice MB fill at modest power levels. You can use MB only or a 2-way if you like highs in the back too.
Subs: Best between 70-100 Hz. Above that level of filtering, we get bleed through of non-bass signals from the subs.
Comments?
Swez
strife on 01/5/2006 10:44:04
I have another Alpine set which are sps-171a (component). These should be able to play at 100 herz right?
swez on 01/5/2006 23:11:10
Yes, these are much better and you can use them from 70 Hz and up. When using an amp (recommended) Setting the High Pass Fiter on the amp between 70-100 Hz is just fine, if you have subs as well.
If you arn't using subs, these can go down to about 50-55 Hz., and still be reasonably clean.
Comments,
Swez
strife on 01/6/2006 00:20:19
I am using subs, but on a different amp, so should the components be at 70-100? Also, that brings up another question. I have a performance teknique icbm-771 amp for the component and was told it wasn't a good match for the speakers, and I can see why, but is there anything I can do to make it more compatible? Any why I can make this amp perform fine with these speakers, because I really don't want to buy another amp.
strife on 01/6/2006 01:31:36
ps- is it like a rule of thumb no to have woofers and mid woofers cross frequencies?
compvr15s on 01/6/2006 05:04:55
there is no reason why you can not use this amp to power your component speakers, you just have be careful on the gain settings, too much power will blow the speakers but too little power will also ruin them, good clean power is better than distorted power....where are you going to be placing these component speakers??? and where are you placing the other 4inch speakers(running off the head unit id assume)... for amp settings i would go prolly around 80hz on the sub amp, and 70hz on the interior speakers... just so you get a nice transition between the two, the subs will definitly overpower the components but you will still get decent midbass from the 6.5s
strife on 01/6/2006 05:26:04
the components are goin to be on the front door panels and the 4 inch speakers are in the back. How do I know the proper gain setting for the components?
strife on 01/6/2006 05:29:56
o yeah, just to verify, the subs are 2 audiobauhn alum12q's hooked up to a hifonics bx2005d
compvr15s on 01/6/2006 06:06:44
the best way to set the amp is by ear... turn your head unit up to the maxium volume you will ever listen to it at for a period of time(no more than 75%) then adjust your head unit so your eq is at zero for now... with the stereo running adjust your x-over first(70hz lets say) then start adjusting the gain no bass boost should be needed can use Head Units eq to dial that in... back to the gain setting, just turn it up a few notches go listen to it from inside the vehicle(works best with a cd you listen to alot) just turn it until you are happy and of course make sure no distortion is coming from the component set, this amp is quite strong for these speakers so im sure its not going to be turned up very high.. then once you get to "happy" spot you can do further tuning with the equlizer on the head unit.. if your tweeters are a lil over powering, the crossover supplied with the componets should have a switch for the tweets probably -3/0/+3. not sure if your set has this or not but it probably does...
strife on 01/6/2006 06:11:20
a switch like something you manually click, or the way the crossover is set up?
compvr15s on 01/6/2006 06:15:26
yea it will be placed on the cross over somewhere or maybe even inside if the cross over was made to split... but it will just be a little tiny switch that you manually move, let me look on the net and see if i can find a pic of the component set with the crossover as well. ill post back in a few mins
compvr15s on 01/6/2006 06:23:08
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?g2672_1265
guess this model does not come with the tweeter attenuation(switch i was talking about)
these here are words pasted from swez's reply-he was comparing the 171a to the 176a
The 176A has a little more flexability in the crossover with a -0,-3,-6 dB attenuator. This helps tone down an overly bright tweeter. (silk dome)The poly/Aluminum coated cone is good for moisture resistance, but my experience with poly cones show, less than natural sound characteristics.
The 171A does not have the attenuator circuit as far as I can tell, via spec sheet. It does have a soft textile dome. (not silk) But should sound smooth and less bright than most metal dome tweets I have listened to.
I also like the woofer wave guide feature on this MB driver. It helps disperse MB/MR better than most parabolic cone designs. The 171A also has a lower frequency response. (in Hz) This indicates a very light cone and efficient motor system, hense, more dB/watt output is possible.
strife on 01/6/2006 06:26:37
Alright thanks, that explains alot. I'm pretty confident that the speakers will work fine now.
compvr15s on 01/6/2006 06:29:28
yea im sure they will sound good, you can always just tune down the highs on the head unit if you are not happy with the tweets. also can use an aftermarket EQ-these things are amazing for tuning in your speakers, they come in a variety-5band-7band-9band and so on the higher the number the more play you will get with certain freq ranges... if interested check on ebay or other online electronic sites, may want to do a google search and get some reviews since i have no advice on brand here.
swez on 01/6/2006 06:38:38
That ICBM-771 is uable for your front Comps. Yes, it's a tad strong for your Alpine 171A's, but with careful gain setting, it should do the job.
Set the HPF on this amp at 80 Hz., for your Comps. Then, set the gain control to 6 volts setting and work from there. Try this tweaking method:
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t3
As for your rear stage 4" Alpines, use the HU amps only and use BB filters at about 300 Hz. Here, use a cap, inline with the + terminal to each speaker. They should be non-polarized and rated at least 30 volts.
These will work: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-EjKj3J39NNS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=760&I=127BB300A2&search=Bass+Blockers
Swez
Replies (16)
compvr15s on 01/4/2006 23:16:48
you wont need a filter for your subs, almost ever amp on the market mono-or multichannel, has built in cross overs... mono amps of course only have lowpass crossovers say upto 200hz, whatever you have this set to your subs will play that point and below normally, anything above that point will be hugely reduced, this is where your interior speakers come into play... as for the alpines i would go kinda high here because you are working with a 4inch woofer, not going to get much midbass at all from these.you are trying to achieve a blend here, you want everything to flow together for a smooth sound
swez on 01/5/2006 00:01:16
Yes, Bass blockers are very appropriate for small format, Midrange speakers.
This is a little bit of smoke and mirrors on Alpine's specs. (Rare for Alpine to play this game) At very low power, these speaker may do 50 Hz. But, the SPL output will be so minimal below about 200 Hz., it's better to filter them.
How much power do you plan to throw at them? I see 25 watts RMS on the specs with a peak of 125 watts. That's just plain NUTZ for such a small motor system and cone. One might come close in a port tuned enclosure, (to 50 Hz.) but in a door or dash, ain't gonna happen w/o major modifications.
Finally, I'd hope you can use some larger format, MB speakers in the rear stage. A 6.5" , 6x8 or 6x9" will give nice MB fill at modest power levels. You can use MB only or a 2-way if you like highs in the back too.
Subs: Best between 70-100 Hz. Above that level of filtering, we get bleed through of non-bass signals from the subs.
Comments?
Swez
strife on 01/5/2006 10:44:04
I have another Alpine set which are sps-171a (component). These should be able to play at 100 herz right?
swez on 01/5/2006 23:11:10
Yes, these are much better and you can use them from 70 Hz and up. When using an amp (recommended) Setting the High Pass Fiter on the amp between 70-100 Hz is just fine, if you have subs as well.
If you arn't using subs, these can go down to about 50-55 Hz., and still be reasonably clean.
Comments,
Swez
strife on 01/6/2006 00:20:19
I am using subs, but on a different amp, so should the components be at 70-100? Also, that brings up another question. I have a performance teknique icbm-771 amp for the component and was told it wasn't a good match for the speakers, and I can see why, but is there anything I can do to make it more compatible? Any why I can make this amp perform fine with these speakers, because I really don't want to buy another amp.
strife on 01/6/2006 01:31:36
ps- is it like a rule of thumb no to have woofers and mid woofers cross frequencies?
compvr15s on 01/6/2006 05:04:55
there is no reason why you can not use this amp to power your component speakers, you just have be careful on the gain settings, too much power will blow the speakers but too little power will also ruin them, good clean power is better than distorted power....where are you going to be placing these component speakers??? and where are you placing the other 4inch speakers(running off the head unit id assume)... for amp settings i would go prolly around 80hz on the sub amp, and 70hz on the interior speakers... just so you get a nice transition between the two, the subs will definitly overpower the components but you will still get decent midbass from the 6.5s
strife on 01/6/2006 05:26:04
the components are goin to be on the front door panels and the 4 inch speakers are in the back. How do I know the proper gain setting for the components?
strife on 01/6/2006 05:29:56
o yeah, just to verify, the subs are 2 audiobauhn alum12q's hooked up to a hifonics bx2005d
compvr15s on 01/6/2006 06:06:44
the best way to set the amp is by ear... turn your head unit up to the maxium volume you will ever listen to it at for a period of time(no more than 75%) then adjust your head unit so your eq is at zero for now... with the stereo running adjust your x-over first(70hz lets say) then start adjusting the gain no bass boost should be needed can use Head Units eq to dial that in... back to the gain setting, just turn it up a few notches go listen to it from inside the vehicle(works best with a cd you listen to alot) just turn it until you are happy and of course make sure no distortion is coming from the component set, this amp is quite strong for these speakers so im sure its not going to be turned up very high.. then once you get to "happy" spot you can do further tuning with the equlizer on the head unit.. if your tweeters are a lil over powering, the crossover supplied with the componets should have a switch for the tweets probably -3/0/+3. not sure if your set has this or not but it probably does...
strife on 01/6/2006 06:11:20
a switch like something you manually click, or the way the crossover is set up?
compvr15s on 01/6/2006 06:15:26
yea it will be placed on the cross over somewhere or maybe even inside if the cross over was made to split... but it will just be a little tiny switch that you manually move, let me look on the net and see if i can find a pic of the component set with the crossover as well. ill post back in a few mins
compvr15s on 01/6/2006 06:23:08
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?g2672_1265
guess this model does not come with the tweeter attenuation(switch i was talking about)
these here are words pasted from swez's reply-he was comparing the 171a to the 176a
The 176A has a little more flexability in the crossover with a -0,-3,-6 dB attenuator. This helps tone down an overly bright tweeter. (silk dome)The poly/Aluminum coated cone is good for moisture resistance, but my experience with poly cones show, less than natural sound characteristics.
The 171A does not have the attenuator circuit as far as I can tell, via spec sheet. It does have a soft textile dome. (not silk) But should sound smooth and less bright than most metal dome tweets I have listened to.
I also like the woofer wave guide feature on this MB driver. It helps disperse MB/MR better than most parabolic cone designs. The 171A also has a lower frequency response. (in Hz) This indicates a very light cone and efficient motor system, hense, more dB/watt output is possible.
strife on 01/6/2006 06:26:37
Alright thanks, that explains alot. I'm pretty confident that the speakers will work fine now.
compvr15s on 01/6/2006 06:29:28
yea im sure they will sound good, you can always just tune down the highs on the head unit if you are not happy with the tweets. also can use an aftermarket EQ-these things are amazing for tuning in your speakers, they come in a variety-5band-7band-9band and so on the higher the number the more play you will get with certain freq ranges... if interested check on ebay or other online electronic sites, may want to do a google search and get some reviews since i have no advice on brand here.
swez on 01/6/2006 06:38:38
That ICBM-771 is uable for your front Comps. Yes, it's a tad strong for your Alpine 171A's, but with careful gain setting, it should do the job.
Set the HPF on this amp at 80 Hz., for your Comps. Then, set the gain control to 6 volts setting and work from there. Try this tweaking method:
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t3
As for your rear stage 4" Alpines, use the HU amps only and use BB filters at about 300 Hz. Here, use a cap, inline with the + terminal to each speaker. They should be non-polarized and rated at least 30 volts.
These will work: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-EjKj3J39NNS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=760&I=127BB300A2&search=Bass+Blockers
Swez
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