hey guys having some problems with my home theater.... when im at my brothers house watching a movie(27or32" tv cant remember) and a $400 phillips all in one boxed speaker package, it sounds good, can actaully get the sense of surround sound... when i watch in my room(57"tv)with a $500denon reciever, and about $1000 dollars worth of infinity speakers, center channel, tower fronts and bookshelf rears. and an mtx sw1212 subwoofer... i really dont feel that the equipment is malfunctioning i think its just in my setup, need to be tweeked... any ideas on some audio tones i can use to set this properly... like when a plane flys from front left to right rear, i want that fading affect and i just dont feel im getting that now.... or do you guys know of a program that i can use to create some tones, i have my reciever hooked to my computer through digital coaxial.... or i can burn or even buy a cd for this.... thanx for the help guys.. i know my system has the potential to perform great, just bugs me that his700 dollar setup is kicking my 3500-4000dollar systems /\$$...
any input on locations, is that crucial for what i want... my surrounds are about a foot and a half from my bed, my fronts are about 8-10 feet away and my tv and center channel are probably 11-12 feet away... thanx for any help guys... im gonna keep looking for some audio cuts to try and tweak this, if ya know of any good tracks or programs please list them...
Replies (11)
swez on 01/3/2006 00:29:09
Try running just the front, center and sub as you balance things out. Optimize these first.
Then look at the placement of your rear channel speakers. They may either have to be moved to different locations or the time delay settings between front and rear channels will need to be adjusted so that all audio signals are reaching your seat at the same time.
Is your Denon a 5.1 or 6.1 system? Most have time delay circuits and although I don't have the specifics on hand, we have to delay the front stage system sound, so it reaches your "target zone" (primary seating area) at the same time the rear speakers fire. If they do not match, ( a few milli-seconds, you will not enjoy the experience.
Test CD's? Search google for Sheffield Labs test CD's.
http://www.savantaudio.com/savant19.html (??? Browse)
You may need some advanced input from skilled AV peeps here.
Swez
compvr15s on 01/3/2006 01:48:19
my denon is 6.1, but i do not have a rear surround... it does have a time delay but i dont think i can set that when watching movies... can only use the dts selection, it auto picks when the dvd format is reconized by the receiver. can listen to regular audio in 5 channel mode or any other optional modes but when it comes to dvds i dunno if i can switch that i will try that tomorrow.... i found a few places that say to have a gradual arch between your fronts and center channel, well i did not have it setup like that so i took a string and taped it to the area where im listening from the most and then pulled it to the center channel, and then moved the front right and left so they were the same lenght away as the center. i think my big problem is my rears, those places also said to place those 15-25 inchs above the listening area, well mine are actaully below so im going to make some shelves to get them upto proper height and see how that is.... found a few good sq cuts and it really sounds good now, can decipher the left from right... i will check those links tomorrow, as its almost 1am now. thanx again tho.
ttocs on 01/3/2006 10:49:43
so, lets re-cap now. You can't understand why you are not getting the idea of surround sound when you don't have any rear speakers?
I think I know what is wrong....
compvr15s on 01/3/2006 14:16:29
i have rear right and left but not the rear center channel hooked up.
swez on 01/3/2006 15:47:05
First off, am not fully up on to speed on HT applications. However, the string test is a great start. Here, the front channels are "arrayed" so that all speakers are the same distance from the target area.
Sub locations can vary results dramatically, either poitive or in a negative way. If you have issues on that one, moving the subs(s) around will help find the best location.
As for the rear speakers, yes... they need to be high enough to give good pattern dispersion. They also need to be far enough from the target area so that their sound reaches you about the same time or a slight lag, if you like reverberant effects. (Big hall, theater delays)
If you have no time delay tools to slow down the front speakers to match the rears, then you'll have to change distances for the rear speakers, (so they all meet in phase, to the sweet spot) It may even be desirable to have the rear signals lagging a few milli-seconds behind the front stage for the Big Hall effect.
If the front speaker waves are not phased well to the rear channels, we get either lots of summing or subtractive signals at the sweet spot.
In short, work with what you have and adjust the distances as needed, to get the full impact of HT sound you are trying to obtain.
Good luck!
Swez
compvr15s on 01/3/2006 18:53:14
i think im as good as i can get now, i need to build 2 shelves to get my rear speakers up a couple feet... im gonna goto my brothers house and barrow a few movies, pearl harbor for sure, and a few other action movies... i have it set up real good now when listening to plain audio tracks... used tears in heaven(eric clapton) and hotel california(eagles).. my only problem is that my listening area is againts the back wall, so i cant place my surrounds a little behind like they suggest, i was thinking about recessing the speakers into the wall but that will only give my like 4-5 inchs at the most because of the wall on the other side, may be just enough tho.
swez on 01/3/2006 20:04:08
Not gonna work if you cannot move the main seating closer to the front stage and have the rear channels further away.
Try this:
1. Grab a few chairs from the kitchen table
2. Start at 6-10 feet away from your front speakers
3. Leave the rear speakers where they are for now
4. Adjust seating to get the best mix you can in this room
Now, move the comfy couch to that location and listen hard.
Swez
compvr15s on 01/3/2006 20:38:21
id love to do that but the set up is in my bedroom, and for the time being do not have a headboard, just the springs and matresses, going to get new carpet soon so the less there is to move the easier... i think when i get the headboard this should move the bed probably 12-15 inches away from the wall. that may help a bit too...
swez on 01/4/2006 11:32:43
Like any project, there are always compromises to contend with. Guess you will just have to do the best you can for now.
A bedroom, is generally not the ideal place for HT systems. There are so many sound absorbing materials and the room and so on. But, if that is all you have for now, make the best of it.
Note: Room dimensions, high ceilings and acoustical properties of materials in the room, all have a good deal of impact on the results.
Swez
compvr15s on 01/4/2006 16:41:05
CASE CLOSED:
thanx for all the help guys, it is definitly sounding alot better now than it ever has, you were correct swez about the delay, i never tried to use that mode while watching a dvd but the receiver allows for that, i tried it @ 8-10-12 ms delay and it seemed to make a big difference, i also moved the rear speakers farther away from the listening area, are about 55inchs now, that is the best i could do for now, and i also have them elevated a lil better(a lil above listening area) so hopefully when i get the shelves done this will make my issue a problem of the past... i knew i could count on CK for the great advice i needed
swez on 01/4/2006 20:09:37
Well done son! I knew that had to be a big part of the issue. Good that you took the time to tweak and experiment.
Enjoy!
Swez
any input on locations, is that crucial for what i want... my surrounds are about a foot and a half from my bed, my fronts are about 8-10 feet away and my tv and center channel are probably 11-12 feet away... thanx for any help guys... im gonna keep looking for some audio cuts to try and tweak this, if ya know of any good tracks or programs please list them...
Replies (11)
swez on 01/3/2006 00:29:09
Try running just the front, center and sub as you balance things out. Optimize these first.
Then look at the placement of your rear channel speakers. They may either have to be moved to different locations or the time delay settings between front and rear channels will need to be adjusted so that all audio signals are reaching your seat at the same time.
Is your Denon a 5.1 or 6.1 system? Most have time delay circuits and although I don't have the specifics on hand, we have to delay the front stage system sound, so it reaches your "target zone" (primary seating area) at the same time the rear speakers fire. If they do not match, ( a few milli-seconds, you will not enjoy the experience.
Test CD's? Search google for Sheffield Labs test CD's.
http://www.savantaudio.com/savant19.html (??? Browse)
You may need some advanced input from skilled AV peeps here.
Swez
compvr15s on 01/3/2006 01:48:19
my denon is 6.1, but i do not have a rear surround... it does have a time delay but i dont think i can set that when watching movies... can only use the dts selection, it auto picks when the dvd format is reconized by the receiver. can listen to regular audio in 5 channel mode or any other optional modes but when it comes to dvds i dunno if i can switch that i will try that tomorrow.... i found a few places that say to have a gradual arch between your fronts and center channel, well i did not have it setup like that so i took a string and taped it to the area where im listening from the most and then pulled it to the center channel, and then moved the front right and left so they were the same lenght away as the center. i think my big problem is my rears, those places also said to place those 15-25 inchs above the listening area, well mine are actaully below so im going to make some shelves to get them upto proper height and see how that is.... found a few good sq cuts and it really sounds good now, can decipher the left from right... i will check those links tomorrow, as its almost 1am now. thanx again tho.
ttocs on 01/3/2006 10:49:43
so, lets re-cap now. You can't understand why you are not getting the idea of surround sound when you don't have any rear speakers?
I think I know what is wrong....
compvr15s on 01/3/2006 14:16:29
i have rear right and left but not the rear center channel hooked up.
swez on 01/3/2006 15:47:05
First off, am not fully up on to speed on HT applications. However, the string test is a great start. Here, the front channels are "arrayed" so that all speakers are the same distance from the target area.
Sub locations can vary results dramatically, either poitive or in a negative way. If you have issues on that one, moving the subs(s) around will help find the best location.
As for the rear speakers, yes... they need to be high enough to give good pattern dispersion. They also need to be far enough from the target area so that their sound reaches you about the same time or a slight lag, if you like reverberant effects. (Big hall, theater delays)
If you have no time delay tools to slow down the front speakers to match the rears, then you'll have to change distances for the rear speakers, (so they all meet in phase, to the sweet spot) It may even be desirable to have the rear signals lagging a few milli-seconds behind the front stage for the Big Hall effect.
If the front speaker waves are not phased well to the rear channels, we get either lots of summing or subtractive signals at the sweet spot.
In short, work with what you have and adjust the distances as needed, to get the full impact of HT sound you are trying to obtain.
Good luck!
Swez
compvr15s on 01/3/2006 18:53:14
i think im as good as i can get now, i need to build 2 shelves to get my rear speakers up a couple feet... im gonna goto my brothers house and barrow a few movies, pearl harbor for sure, and a few other action movies... i have it set up real good now when listening to plain audio tracks... used tears in heaven(eric clapton) and hotel california(eagles).. my only problem is that my listening area is againts the back wall, so i cant place my surrounds a little behind like they suggest, i was thinking about recessing the speakers into the wall but that will only give my like 4-5 inchs at the most because of the wall on the other side, may be just enough tho.
swez on 01/3/2006 20:04:08
Not gonna work if you cannot move the main seating closer to the front stage and have the rear channels further away.
Try this:
1. Grab a few chairs from the kitchen table
2. Start at 6-10 feet away from your front speakers
3. Leave the rear speakers where they are for now
4. Adjust seating to get the best mix you can in this room
Now, move the comfy couch to that location and listen hard.
Swez
compvr15s on 01/3/2006 20:38:21
id love to do that but the set up is in my bedroom, and for the time being do not have a headboard, just the springs and matresses, going to get new carpet soon so the less there is to move the easier... i think when i get the headboard this should move the bed probably 12-15 inches away from the wall. that may help a bit too...
swez on 01/4/2006 11:32:43
Like any project, there are always compromises to contend with. Guess you will just have to do the best you can for now.
A bedroom, is generally not the ideal place for HT systems. There are so many sound absorbing materials and the room and so on. But, if that is all you have for now, make the best of it.
Note: Room dimensions, high ceilings and acoustical properties of materials in the room, all have a good deal of impact on the results.
Swez
compvr15s on 01/4/2006 16:41:05
CASE CLOSED:
thanx for all the help guys, it is definitly sounding alot better now than it ever has, you were correct swez about the delay, i never tried to use that mode while watching a dvd but the receiver allows for that, i tried it @ 8-10-12 ms delay and it seemed to make a big difference, i also moved the rear speakers farther away from the listening area, are about 55inchs now, that is the best i could do for now, and i also have them elevated a lil better(a lil above listening area) so hopefully when i get the shelves done this will make my issue a problem of the past... i knew i could count on CK for the great advice i needed
swez on 01/4/2006 20:09:37
Well done son! I knew that had to be a big part of the issue. Good that you took the time to tweak and experiment.
Enjoy!
Swez
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
