Hi I have two Pioneer 10' DVC subs and I'm looking at a Sony XM-2200GTX amp that is bridgeable at 500W x 1 @ 4 Ohms. I noticed that the subs I have say they can be either 2 Ohm or 8 Ohm, I don't see anything about 4 Ohm. Does this mean that they are normally 4 Ohm without any fancy wiring or can they not be wired to be 4 Ohm?? From what I see here I can still get 500W from 2 subs @ 2 Ohms which I can do with these subs, but a guy from CircuitCity told me that Pioneer subs were not really made to be running at 2 Ohms... What can I do?!
Replies (18)
ttocs on 12/27/2005 12:15:33
you will need to do a series-parallel wiring to get the impedence you need, but you can make the 2 subs net a 4 ohm load.
Do you know about series or parallel wiring?
skateboarder3573 on 12/27/2005 12:19:51
no i really have no idea what that means
ttocs on 12/27/2005 12:50:59
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t33
If you look to the left under the DIY articles we have a number of answers to common questions. This article unfotunatly does not have the wiring schematic that you need for the series parallel wiring needed, but it will give you a bit of help and understanding.
JL has a good explination and diagram for what you want to do. Take a look and let us know if you need more help.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=161
Check out the section labeled "2 DVC drivers with Voice Coils in Series / Parallel". It will look strange to you as you will connect the posative from one coil to the negative of the other, and you will do this to both speakers.
skateboarder3573 on 12/27/2005 14:08:06
so is this the one that I need to do:
2 DVC drivers with Voice Coils in Series / Parallel
Connecting the two voice coils of each driver in series (+ to -) and the drivers themselves in parallel (+ to +, etc.) will result in the following impedances:
Dual-6 Ohm Subwoofers: 6 Ohms
Dual-4 Ohm Subwoofer: 4 Ohms
Dual-2 Ohm Subwoofer: 2 Ohms
Dual-1.5 Ohm Subwoofer: 1.5 Ohms
If my subs say they can be 2 or 8, does that mean that right now they at 4 and when i wire it this way it will stay at 4
Victor on 12/27/2005 14:54:57
scott..... doesnt the diagram say all that is nedded to wire the sub and amp properly, if there is something mising do let us knwo so thatswez and I can ammend that, so that it is more useful for people visiting CK..
Victor..
MrBrownstone on 12/28/2005 01:15:20
Boarder
Welcome to our board. We help everybody from total beginner to overachieving amateur!! The first time I dealt with multiple voice coils and the like, I was so confused, I pulled out most of my hair trying to get it to work. After wiring 16 -4ohm speakers into a 4 ohm load (1992) I thought I had created an engineering marvel. That story later...
In your case we need to establish that we all understand the concept of series versus parallel. In this post, let's start with SERIES only. Also, some housekeeping:
1. Don't listen to most Circuit City employees. They know little more than the people in the refrigerator section. Stay with us, we won't steer you wrong.
2. A dual voice coil speaker means that you have 2 motors inside the same speaker 4 ohms each.
Let's look at this one diagram at a time, shall we? Think of the whole thing as water running from the amplifier. It may be a very elementary explanation, but it makes the concept easy.
Assume that you are just using 2 single voice coil speakers for a minute, and only one amplfier channel. How would you wire them? You can either send both +'s from each speaker to the amplifier (parallel) or run them one after another. Go here and take a look at the diagram:
2 SVC Subs Series
In this case, the red (+) wire from the amplifier connects to the (+) of speaker 1. The water (power) runs out of the (-) from speaker 1. From there, it connects to the (+) of speaker 2. Water (power) runs out of the (-) of Speaker 2 back to the amplifier.
Remember, at any time, if you disconnect any part of the wiring, there is NO POWER running from the amp to the speakers, and back. In order for power to run, we need to have a continuous path from the amp (+) back to its own (-) or we don't have power.
Now let's look at a DVC speaker (dual voice coil) wired in series:
1 DVC Sub Series
In this case, it's the same concept, except in stead of 2 different cones, baskets, etc., you just have one speaker with 2 motors in it.
If the above diagram looks like you are running 'hose' from the speaker right back into itself, that is correct. You are. Except...the Guts (Voice Coils) are set up one pair +/- on top, and another +/- on the bottom of the SAME SPEAKER!!!
In this case, the red (+) wire from the amplifier connects to the (+) of 1st Voice Coil (VC). The water (power) runs out of the (-) from VC #1. From there, it connects to the (+) of VC # 2. Water (power) runs out of the (-) of VC# 2 back to the amplifier.
In this case, if you have 2 (4) ohm coils, and you are wiring in series, the impedance is 4+4 = 8ohms.
Are you with me so far, 'Boarder?
In the First Diagram, Just assume that each speaker was 4ohms, and in the 2nd diagram, assume that each Voice Coil was 4ohms. In each case, we have an 8 ohm connection...the difference is that in one situation, we have 2 speaker cones.
skateboarder3573 on 12/28/2005 09:33:31
Yea I got it so far, my only question is how do I get the 8 ohms back to 4?? wouldn't I have to get each speaker down to 2 ohms to have a net 4 ohm load?
ttocs on 12/28/2005 10:53:04
sorry victor, I didn't see it yesterday...... I found it today and it would have done the job.
swez on 12/28/2005 12:48:39
Oye Vey Mr. B. I know this stuff in my sleep by now. But your splainin' had me pulling my hair out too. Better stick poker and mortgages. Leave the teaching to teachers. COFFEE
IDEA Since you are talking about a 2 channel amp here, the easiest way to do this, would be to wire Sub A coils in parallel to Channel 1 on your amp. That gives a 2 ohm load and safe for both speaker and amp.
Now, repeat the process with Sub B and Channel 2. Look here for wiring details:
http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img8&image=1dvcparallel1yl.jpg
Once you have this correct, all that is needed is to set the Low Pass Filter (LPF) on amp between 80-100 Hz. Then, set amp gain to match HU output. We can help you on that as well.
When finished, each sub will receive up to 250 watts (RMS) per sub. This is the easiest way to use the combo mentioned.
Got it? SMILE
Swez
skateboarder3573 on 12/28/2005 13:31:21
awesome, that sounds to be exactly what i'm looking for only one problem...the link doesn't connect to a piture. when I click it, it akes me to a page that asks me if I want to upload one
swez on 12/28/2005 13:55:51
Try cup and paste on this one:
http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img8&image=1dvcparallel1yl.jpg
Yep, this works now! CLAP
Glad to help clear up your wiring dilemma. There are several ways to do this and still get desired results. I remember my first set of DVC subs. It had me scratching my head and making diagrams too. The sad part was, I knew Ohm's Law well, but had no quick and easy wiring diagrams to reference.
Thanks to Victor, LC1 and myself, our site has a full range of wiring configurations available now. Use em up... we'll make more if needed.
Swez
skateboarder3573 on 12/28/2005 14:34:45
would it be a good idea to get a new battery too? or is the amp not really that powerful that it's going to cause trouble for me? I'm not sure how old the battery is either
swez on 12/28/2005 15:04:29
The BAT is just 1 part of the equation. This thing just stores energy and releases it, only when starting or if the ALT cannot keep up with the load.
If you find that this amp gives you minimal light dimming on heavy bass hits, some larger power wires would be in order, under the hood. We call this the "Big 3 upgrade". It's buried a few pages deep on the board by now.
Here it is: http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=007801
That would be the first thing to work on. Just leave the OEM wires as is and use #4 gage along with the stock ones. Now, you'll have high current passing through the #4 wires and less/no light dimming in most cases.
This amp has a max current draw of about 75A's at full power. It will pull much less at normal listening levels. But if you want to show off and "crank it up" a few dB, then I would expect light dimming at idle speeds. Once the engine RPM goes up above 2,000 RPM, the ALT is putting out max power and can usually handle it, until you hit the brakes, turn on the rear defogger or use the heater/AC blower on high speeds.
If you get any issues once the amp is installed, we're here to help.\
Swez
skateboarder3573 on 12/28/2005 15:12:12
Thanks Swez! You answer all my questions in a simple, easy to understand way :-D
MrBrownstone on 12/28/2005 16:05:26
Simple and easy...you just described both Swez and his women in one sentence.
BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN!!!
swez on 12/28/2005 18:48:43
What woman are we talking about? BTW, I don't appreciate that line of humor dude.
The women in my life, have been top drawer and quality people. Don't degrade them or me for your own giggles and grins OK??? I don't find it funny or appropriate. Give it up.
Swez
ttocs on 12/28/2005 19:10:30
somebodys undies frozen?
swez on 12/29/2005 11:25:03
Naw, maybe a bit cranky yesterday is all. Hey, I can take a joke as well as anyone and dish em out too. But when it comes to what I consider to be personally degrading remarks, that bugs me.
Dunno, maybe it's just the post-Christmas blues. Home alone, no parties or not much people contact, can turn a happy guy into a real cranky ol fart. I dunno... this too shall pass.
Swez
Replies (18)
ttocs on 12/27/2005 12:15:33
you will need to do a series-parallel wiring to get the impedence you need, but you can make the 2 subs net a 4 ohm load.
Do you know about series or parallel wiring?
skateboarder3573 on 12/27/2005 12:19:51
no i really have no idea what that means
ttocs on 12/27/2005 12:50:59
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t33
If you look to the left under the DIY articles we have a number of answers to common questions. This article unfotunatly does not have the wiring schematic that you need for the series parallel wiring needed, but it will give you a bit of help and understanding.
JL has a good explination and diagram for what you want to do. Take a look and let us know if you need more help.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=161
Check out the section labeled "2 DVC drivers with Voice Coils in Series / Parallel". It will look strange to you as you will connect the posative from one coil to the negative of the other, and you will do this to both speakers.
skateboarder3573 on 12/27/2005 14:08:06
so is this the one that I need to do:
2 DVC drivers with Voice Coils in Series / Parallel
Connecting the two voice coils of each driver in series (+ to -) and the drivers themselves in parallel (+ to +, etc.) will result in the following impedances:
Dual-6 Ohm Subwoofers: 6 Ohms
Dual-4 Ohm Subwoofer: 4 Ohms
Dual-2 Ohm Subwoofer: 2 Ohms
Dual-1.5 Ohm Subwoofer: 1.5 Ohms
If my subs say they can be 2 or 8, does that mean that right now they at 4 and when i wire it this way it will stay at 4
Victor on 12/27/2005 14:54:57
scott..... doesnt the diagram say all that is nedded to wire the sub and amp properly, if there is something mising do let us knwo so thatswez and I can ammend that, so that it is more useful for people visiting CK..
Victor..
MrBrownstone on 12/28/2005 01:15:20
Boarder
Welcome to our board. We help everybody from total beginner to overachieving amateur!! The first time I dealt with multiple voice coils and the like, I was so confused, I pulled out most of my hair trying to get it to work. After wiring 16 -4ohm speakers into a 4 ohm load (1992) I thought I had created an engineering marvel. That story later...
In your case we need to establish that we all understand the concept of series versus parallel. In this post, let's start with SERIES only. Also, some housekeeping:
1. Don't listen to most Circuit City employees. They know little more than the people in the refrigerator section. Stay with us, we won't steer you wrong.
2. A dual voice coil speaker means that you have 2 motors inside the same speaker 4 ohms each.
Let's look at this one diagram at a time, shall we? Think of the whole thing as water running from the amplifier. It may be a very elementary explanation, but it makes the concept easy.
Assume that you are just using 2 single voice coil speakers for a minute, and only one amplfier channel. How would you wire them? You can either send both +'s from each speaker to the amplifier (parallel) or run them one after another. Go here and take a look at the diagram:
2 SVC Subs Series
In this case, the red (+) wire from the amplifier connects to the (+) of speaker 1. The water (power) runs out of the (-) from speaker 1. From there, it connects to the (+) of speaker 2. Water (power) runs out of the (-) of Speaker 2 back to the amplifier.
Remember, at any time, if you disconnect any part of the wiring, there is NO POWER running from the amp to the speakers, and back. In order for power to run, we need to have a continuous path from the amp (+) back to its own (-) or we don't have power.
Now let's look at a DVC speaker (dual voice coil) wired in series:
1 DVC Sub Series
In this case, it's the same concept, except in stead of 2 different cones, baskets, etc., you just have one speaker with 2 motors in it.
If the above diagram looks like you are running 'hose' from the speaker right back into itself, that is correct. You are. Except...the Guts (Voice Coils) are set up one pair +/- on top, and another +/- on the bottom of the SAME SPEAKER!!!
In this case, the red (+) wire from the amplifier connects to the (+) of 1st Voice Coil (VC). The water (power) runs out of the (-) from VC #1. From there, it connects to the (+) of VC # 2. Water (power) runs out of the (-) of VC# 2 back to the amplifier.
In this case, if you have 2 (4) ohm coils, and you are wiring in series, the impedance is 4+4 = 8ohms.
Are you with me so far, 'Boarder?
In the First Diagram, Just assume that each speaker was 4ohms, and in the 2nd diagram, assume that each Voice Coil was 4ohms. In each case, we have an 8 ohm connection...the difference is that in one situation, we have 2 speaker cones.
skateboarder3573 on 12/28/2005 09:33:31
Yea I got it so far, my only question is how do I get the 8 ohms back to 4?? wouldn't I have to get each speaker down to 2 ohms to have a net 4 ohm load?
ttocs on 12/28/2005 10:53:04
sorry victor, I didn't see it yesterday...... I found it today and it would have done the job.
swez on 12/28/2005 12:48:39
Oye Vey Mr. B. I know this stuff in my sleep by now. But your splainin' had me pulling my hair out too. Better stick poker and mortgages. Leave the teaching to teachers. COFFEE
IDEA Since you are talking about a 2 channel amp here, the easiest way to do this, would be to wire Sub A coils in parallel to Channel 1 on your amp. That gives a 2 ohm load and safe for both speaker and amp.
Now, repeat the process with Sub B and Channel 2. Look here for wiring details:
http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img8&image=1dvcparallel1yl.jpg
Once you have this correct, all that is needed is to set the Low Pass Filter (LPF) on amp between 80-100 Hz. Then, set amp gain to match HU output. We can help you on that as well.
When finished, each sub will receive up to 250 watts (RMS) per sub. This is the easiest way to use the combo mentioned.
Got it? SMILE
Swez
skateboarder3573 on 12/28/2005 13:31:21
awesome, that sounds to be exactly what i'm looking for only one problem...the link doesn't connect to a piture. when I click it, it akes me to a page that asks me if I want to upload one
swez on 12/28/2005 13:55:51
Try cup and paste on this one:
http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img8&image=1dvcparallel1yl.jpg
Yep, this works now! CLAP
Glad to help clear up your wiring dilemma. There are several ways to do this and still get desired results. I remember my first set of DVC subs. It had me scratching my head and making diagrams too. The sad part was, I knew Ohm's Law well, but had no quick and easy wiring diagrams to reference.
Thanks to Victor, LC1 and myself, our site has a full range of wiring configurations available now. Use em up... we'll make more if needed.
Swez
skateboarder3573 on 12/28/2005 14:34:45
would it be a good idea to get a new battery too? or is the amp not really that powerful that it's going to cause trouble for me? I'm not sure how old the battery is either
swez on 12/28/2005 15:04:29
The BAT is just 1 part of the equation. This thing just stores energy and releases it, only when starting or if the ALT cannot keep up with the load.
If you find that this amp gives you minimal light dimming on heavy bass hits, some larger power wires would be in order, under the hood. We call this the "Big 3 upgrade". It's buried a few pages deep on the board by now.
Here it is: http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=007801
That would be the first thing to work on. Just leave the OEM wires as is and use #4 gage along with the stock ones. Now, you'll have high current passing through the #4 wires and less/no light dimming in most cases.
This amp has a max current draw of about 75A's at full power. It will pull much less at normal listening levels. But if you want to show off and "crank it up" a few dB, then I would expect light dimming at idle speeds. Once the engine RPM goes up above 2,000 RPM, the ALT is putting out max power and can usually handle it, until you hit the brakes, turn on the rear defogger or use the heater/AC blower on high speeds.
If you get any issues once the amp is installed, we're here to help.\
Swez
skateboarder3573 on 12/28/2005 15:12:12
Thanks Swez! You answer all my questions in a simple, easy to understand way :-D
MrBrownstone on 12/28/2005 16:05:26
Simple and easy...you just described both Swez and his women in one sentence.
BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN!!!
swez on 12/28/2005 18:48:43
What woman are we talking about? BTW, I don't appreciate that line of humor dude.
The women in my life, have been top drawer and quality people. Don't degrade them or me for your own giggles and grins OK??? I don't find it funny or appropriate. Give it up.
Swez
ttocs on 12/28/2005 19:10:30
somebodys undies frozen?
swez on 12/29/2005 11:25:03
Naw, maybe a bit cranky yesterday is all. Hey, I can take a joke as well as anyone and dish em out too. But when it comes to what I consider to be personally degrading remarks, that bugs me.
Dunno, maybe it's just the post-Christmas blues. Home alone, no parties or not much people contact, can turn a happy guy into a real cranky ol fart. I dunno... this too shall pass.
Swez
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