Hey guys, im back. I've got a new stratagey!
My Goal: Set my 2 Door/1987 Mazda Pickup with a nice system.
Wants: Bass
Puchased Already:
-1800 Watt Legacy Red Series 2 amp.
-Two JL Audio 10'' Subs W8 series.
( NO BOX )
I'll spend up to $500.
Here is my plan. If you agree, i think im going to sell the two JL subs. My box i made was just too big, and was a safety/stealing issue. If i sell those, ill have that $ and then some other saved $ to spend. With your help, i need to puchase, and set up my car. Keep in mind, I can NOT put door speakers in. So anything behind the seats or maybe a small speaker on the passenger foot/seat side is fine with me. Please tell me which subs/speakers i can get.
Replies (38)
lilschtive on 11/16/2005 23:39:07
Also, can i get some help on those JL's? They are 10 inches, and 8 ohm. I need some info on them myself.
P0werLifter on 11/17/2005 02:53:05
JL's highest model is a w7, not a w8, The Ohm rating for the subs you have is 8ohm? I think the w7s are 3ohm coils.....
swez on 11/17/2005 12:00:15
These are an older series JL's. SVC, 8 ohms/sub; power is 125 Wrms/sub. Lemme see if I can find the link to them for you.
I am guessing they are 10W0-8 or 10W1-8 subs. Both are similar in power and such. Not sure which one you have.
Here are the specs on the 10W0 series for your reference. The W1 series has slightly different T/S specs, but similar performance.
Discontinued sub specs:
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=15
Swez
PS There is no listing on JL website for a W8 series sub.
swez on 11/17/2005 14:33:41
Lilguy,
I wanted to give you a heads up on working with the guys on this board. (especially me) We are busy people who donate time and effort to help others become successful in their car installs.
To do this well, it takes a good flow of 2-way communication between the techs and the helpee. I am happy to help all who come for assistance. However, when we ask topic related questions and don't get the answers requested, communication breaks down and we stop offering help.
Now, I have 2 questions to ask about this new project. If you answer them, I will support you. However, if you choose to ignore them or "forget" to fill in the details, count me out. Ready?
1. That amp mentioned, what are the fuse ratings of this amp? (I have asked this question 4 times now)
2. How much enclosure space is available for your sub(s). Maximum height, width and depth are the key parameters needed.
If you need a wedge design to fit behind the front seat, give base depth and top depth info. (D1 & D2 is the common reference used)
Based on these answers, we'll try to help sort out a design that will work best in this truck.
Here is an example of dimensions needed:
http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/boxcalcs.asp
Swez
PS I am not MAD at you. However, I am frustrated by the lack of follow up answers to questions I have posed before. I know you are new to all this stuff and we all start there. (NEWBIE) But, I am an old fart with limited patience. Let's try one more time and get things right this time OK? THINK
Ash on 11/17/2005 19:03:39
I have a 86 B2000 pickup as well and have experimented with different sub setups.
The main problem I found is the limited cab space which presents two problems:
1. The small cab has very limited enclosure mounting room (unless you have a kingcab and use small subs).
2. Normal recommended box Qtc's (.707) with lower roll-offs yield exaggerated bass ("one note boom").
What I found to work best in the small cabin is small woofers (8") with a low QTS with a higher EBP. This results in a flat response (QTC=.7 to .8) with a high F3 roll-off (60-80hz).
Reasons I liked this better are the cabin gain is much greater than larger autos eliminating the need for large woofers; thus the 8"s, with moderate power, will be louder in the small environment. The flat response w/ high F3 will make better use of the natural higher rise in lower frequencies (40- 50hz), thus extending the woofers response without extensive enclosure airspace.
Not that it is impossible to do it with bigger subs, but it is a lot easier with better benefits with an 8" of that type. I know it sounds like a bunch of technical blah-blah but, the results have netted me a lot of compliments with thoughts that they were 10".
Just something to think about.
lilschtive on 11/17/2005 23:10:14
swez---I will get you that information as soon as i can. ill go look for everything this weekend once i get done with school
ash---wow, that just inspired me. Yes , i do have the masda b2000 87'. What 8's or 10's do you think would do well? ill spend some cash for it to be big bass.
lilschtive on 11/17/2005 23:11:02
By the way, i did have a pair of 8's in the back, but my brother TOOK them! so thats why i need to get a new pair.
Ash on 11/18/2005 06:16:16
Check these out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-Credence-Speakers-8-Subwoofer-CSS84C_W0QQitemZ5831254546QQcategoryZ18802QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=295-545&DID=7&raid=46&rak=295-545
Run these with a 300rms 2 ohm stable Class D mono amp to get best results. You can get 10"s to work, but they will take up a lot more room in the already cramped environment. I had mine mounted in two .4cft sealed boxes (Daytons). My favorites were the Credences in about .33cft sealed each.
Ash on 11/18/2005 09:42:17
Forgot to mention:
As for the mids and highs in this truck; the factory locations are very poor. The 4" front stage is presented in the lower dash corners, facing downward towards the legs. I have tried some high dollar Memphis coaxials with swivel tweeters and ran off a amp. I aimed the tweets to the most upward postion to draw up the soundstage; results not good.
The rears actually are 5" and are located in the high rear sides (too close for proper rear fill). They will not hold a 5.25", only a 4" or 5" (which is hard to find). I used another pair of the same coaxials for the rears (HU powered) and swiveled the tweeters towards the back to help keep more sound up front. With the mounting hole oversized, damping material will have to be used to cover the gaps around the speaker, though a 4" easily matches the mounting screw holes...?????
My remedy suggestion is build some pods for the lower doors that will hold a more powerful 5.25" comp set. It is quite possible holes may have to be cut in the doors to do this. You could use the kick panels but, I believe a cpu is mounted behind the passenger side. This will cause for some extensive panel fabbing and relocation of the module. Either way, it is a bit of a task to get good soundstage in this truck but, it is not impossible. Just takes a little creativity, patience, and subjective auditioning.
lilschtive on 11/18/2005 22:05:18
I think im going to go with a pair of 10's in the back. Is it plossible to find a good set of speakers with a box already fitted for it?
Ash on 11/18/2005 23:10:33
You mean the subs with a box or the mids?
lilschtive on 11/19/2005 14:59:55
the subs for behind the passenger and driver seats.
see thats what i think im going for : two 10' subs behind us that already have an enclosure
lilschtive on 11/19/2005 15:01:31
today is saturday and its car day ill get the demensions for the read seats as soon as i can
lilschtive on 11/22/2005 20:18:00
What do you think? i would get 2 of the subs btw.. Would they fit? would it sound good?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-614
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-740
Ash on 11/23/2005 16:55:36
Would they fit?....nope. Not in that box. The mounting depth on that sub is 7.25", plus your'e gonna need some extra for the voice coil to breathe. That box's total external depth is only 7.25" at the bottom end of the taper. I doubt you will be able to even get them in there. Not to mention that the wood is 1/2" particle board. That will not stand up to the weight & pressure of a competent sub.
It appears to me that you really need to set things in order. First you wanted 8"s, then 10"s, now 12"s. You do realize the limitation of room in this truck don't ya? Going to a bigger sub is going to require one that can go in a extremely small box and still have a decent frequency response. The one brand I pointed out earlier can do it.
Ash on 11/23/2005 18:32:39
If you are willing to go with a 10", which in my opinion, is adequate enough for good SPL in that truck; you should check out this one:
http://credencespeakers.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CSI&Product_Code=CSS104CCH-single&Category_Code=1S
Occasionally you can find a pair that the manufacturer is selling on Ebay as they get rid of overstock frequently. Much cheaper than buying from their website! The 10" will go in as small as .33cft and up to .65cft sealed. They can also be ported as well if you can fit the lengthy port. A good class D sub amp with matching rms power will do these some good.
They will have the 8" version (CSS84C) there too most of the time, if you decide upon them as well. Don't be skeptical on the brand name. If you read up on the company, you will be surprised at who they really are and what you will be getting!. To find them on Ebay do a search on "Credence" in the "consumer electronics" section. If you have any other thoughts, feel free to share.
lilschtive on 11/23/2005 21:51:34
your right. Im going with 10's now. The omnes i alreayd have. I think ill stick with my 2 10' jls and put them in this box?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-612
would that make smoe noise?
btw..the jls are 5.5-6 inches deep
Ash on 11/23/2005 22:19:44
No doubt, if the specs match those subs, it will work. Yet, again I have to disagree on the box's stability. For about half that price (remember shipping too) if you are willing to try and maybe with a friends help you can build a better one. I'm mainly concerned with this box's thin baffle (board the subs sit in) which happens to be only 1/2 inch. You should'nt use a box with a baffle less than 3/4 inch. Reason is, this is the piece that recieves the most vibration from the woofer and can tend to "color" the subs output if not properly built. At times it is possible to even break it!
Even with the power handling being 125, you still would want a well dampened enclosure. If there is no changing your mind then I guess your going to have to deal with the results, whatever it may be. If your going to try it, I would suggest going to the Walmart fabric section and getting some poly-fil (polyester pillow stuffing). Stuff each box to about 50-75% with the fill. Be sure not to overdo it and cause frictional losses. You will also need to get a set of waffle speaker grills to make sure they don't rub up against the back of the seat.
Good Luck,
swez on 11/24/2005 12:58:39
That enclosure size should be a good fit for your JL subs. The older W0 and W1 series subs recommend a sealed box of 0.75 ft^3 (cf) per sub.
As Ash mentioned, some polyfill in each box, should help with low end bass performance. Figure about 8 oz of loose fill or sheets of 1.5" thickness on back, sides, top and bottom, should do the trick.
Take careful measurements before you order the boxes and by all means, use waffle type grills to protect your sub cones. PE has them as well.
Grill covers: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-373
Polyfill: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=260-317 (A 1 lb bag should be enough for both boxes... 1/2lb/box)
Swez
lilschtive on 11/24/2005 13:00:44
Thanks, this is great news. So once i get those JL's in the back, i think my car should "kick".
swez on 11/24/2005 14:11:54
Yes, it should kick pretty good if your amp has about 300 Wrms @ 4 ohms, available to your JL subs.
Did you get a chance to dig out that mentioned amp yet and look at the fuses in it? If this is the Legacy 1870 amp, it's max current draw is 40A. In bridge mode, it will deliver about 450 Wrms @ 4 ohms. A wee bit strong for your present JL's. However, adjusting the input gain "CAREFULLY", it should be safe for your present subs.
http://www.legacycaraudio.com/manuals/RED2AMP.pdf
My concern here, is that your amp may be a bit strong for these subs when bridged MONO. Specs on Legacy .pdf indicate this to be true.
You'll have 1 option here:
1. Bridge the amp to MONO and wire the subs (parallel)
I'd hate to see you fry these older subs and have to start over. So, in this application, use minimal bass boost, (+3dB max, HU and amp) and set your gains on amp at 2.5 volts initially and tweak from there.
This amp has an RCA voltage input range of 1/4 to 2.5 volts. If you have a 4 volt HU, a pair of attenuator circuits between HU and amp are advised.
What HU are you planning to use here? (make & model # please)
Swez ;-)
lilschtive on 11/25/2005 14:02:08
Ok i understand what you mean by bridging to mono..Now what is HU?
swez on 11/25/2005 18:21:46
HU = Source of music, Car Radio, CD player, MP3.... whatever you use in the dash to control your audio options.
Let's re-phrase the question: What radio are you planning to use in your truck? Example: Pioneer DEH-2700
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-CkpWaWsMOUJ/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=300&I=130DEH2700
That's what we mean by HU.
Swez
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 12:02:28
Oh thats all? My brother had one installed before. I'll mosdt likely be using cd's in it. It looks just like the pioneer, but like a differant rand. Doy uo want the brand name?>
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 12:04:11
its a "Blaunpunct Cd169" or something like that. 169 watts im guesssing.
swez on 11/26/2005 12:09:56
If the RCA voltage outputs are 2.5 volts or less, you should be fine with this install.
Got a link to this one?
Swez
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 13:45:18
no i dont have a link. This HU is maybe..4+ years old. Heh....
Ash on 11/26/2005 14:27:57
That would be the Key West model.
http://www.blaupunktusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/138C45FC-734A-49F2-B706-FCAA1DF8A91D/0/KEYWEST169.pdf
2 volt ouput.
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 15:42:29
Ash and Swez...both are you guys are a great help! look at that fast response. And yes, that is my HU. So is it ok Swez?
Ash on 11/26/2005 16:10:23
It will work fine. Just keep your amp gain settings low.
swez on 11/26/2005 17:31:45
I am really busting a gut about how all this is turning out. In spite of the lack of background you have to date Lil, everything is falling into place "like a well planned system". I think the Car Audio gods are hanging out on your shoulder bud. GRIN
Yes, when you install your subs and amp, set the amp gains to about 2.5 volts and you should be fine. A 4 volt HU would drive the amp harder and destroy your JL subs. However, if you do change to a newer HU someday,(4 volt outs) there is a fix. But we need not cross that bridge til ya get there.
Swez
PS I am laughing and you can too. Am not laughing at you either. It's just a mystery how all this is falling into place. Do 16 year olds have good belly laughs? This 50 year old fart is sure in "chuckle mode" at the moment. Join me eh?
I gotta go... my MEDS... are kickin in!
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 18:40:50
hahah yeah this is kind of a mystery on how this is working. i got 3 questions for ya big guy:
1)Where can i set the amp's gain?
2)Does the legacy amp actually match the JL's?
3)Am I aloud to turn the volume up...loud? to the max?
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 18:42:55
By the way, i already have my amp set and everything. I have tried it before with the JL's on ....on preety high volume. It seemed to have worked fine. Do you think when i have the right boxes, and right gain, it will be even louder?
*Laughs*
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 18:46:21
Im just going to ask more questions to make sure everything works out fine. Besides, i planned this system. :p
-When i order the 1lb bag of polyfill, am i supposed to just plop it in there, or should i spread it around?
-another thing: When i screw the JL's into the Single truck box, won't air leak between the screw and the metal holes? do i put smoe sort of caulking in there?
swez on 11/26/2005 20:48:55
1. Set amp gains between 2.0 - 2.5 volts initially. Once you have them sounding clean and pretty loud, a few tweaks is all that's left to be done.
2. Actually, the amp and subs are a pretty good match here. Wire your subs in parallel to the bridge amp (good to go at 4 ohms) This amp seems a little strong for these subs. So, if you hear some mechanical noises from the subs, back it down. (use minimal bass boost here OK... +3dB boost is plenty)
3. Yes, you can turn it up loud... but if you hear the subs groaning... back off a few notches on the bass feature in your HU.
4. Yes, it should be plenty loud in a truck of this size!
5. Polyfill, split the contents into equal halves. Half to each box. Best to spread it out inside the box to about 1-1/2" thick and staple it in place so it doesn't float around in the box loose.
6. Since you have carpeting over these boxes, this will act like a gasket and seal any leaks.
FYI: Pre-drill your screw holes with a 1/8" drill bit. Then use #8 x 1" Phillips head sheet metal screws to hold the subs secure. (4 screws per sub min.) Also, go slow when driving your screws into the box. Don't let the bit slip or you could punch a hole in the surrounds!
Are you planning to buy waffle covers for your subs too? I hope so. These will protect your sub cones from damage. Well worth the few extra bucks. Just go easy on the clamps when you torque down the hardware screws. These are plastic and it won't take much torque, to crack one.
Yes, you can get by on 3 clamps... 10:00, 2:00 and 6:00 positions for 3 clamps. If using 4 clamps, use 12:00, 3:00, 6:00 and 9:00 positions.
Are we almost there now?
Swez
Ash on 11/27/2005 06:23:25
It would be hard to predict what any system is going to do exactly without complex equipment and programs. I'm quite sure you will be fine with the output once it's setup and any adjustments are made. Yes, spread the fill around, but you don't have to be so exact with it.
Now the last is a good question. If you haven't ordered from Partsexpress yet, add two of these to your order:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=269-300
All you do is lay this around the sub mounting area of the box or the subs and all set. I wouldn't worry much about leaks for those boxes are sealed from factory and that speaker sealant should do the rest.
lilschtive on 11/27/2005 12:00:54
Ok! Swez, i heard what you said about the amps gain..But WHERE is it? haha i dont even know where it is...
swez on 11/27/2005 14:07:30
http://www.legacycaraudio.com/manuals/RED2AMP.pdf
Save a copy of this to your computer and print it for future references.
Gain control is shown on page 3, item #4.
You'll have to tweek it from min to max settings to determine the which position gives the quietest bass output to your subs. That's your starting point. (the quiet side adjustment) Here are the steps:
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t3
Disregard the comments on LOC's. You don't have them.
Swez
My Goal: Set my 2 Door/1987 Mazda Pickup with a nice system.
Wants: Bass
Puchased Already:
-1800 Watt Legacy Red Series 2 amp.
-Two JL Audio 10'' Subs W8 series.
( NO BOX )
I'll spend up to $500.
Here is my plan. If you agree, i think im going to sell the two JL subs. My box i made was just too big, and was a safety/stealing issue. If i sell those, ill have that $ and then some other saved $ to spend. With your help, i need to puchase, and set up my car. Keep in mind, I can NOT put door speakers in. So anything behind the seats or maybe a small speaker on the passenger foot/seat side is fine with me. Please tell me which subs/speakers i can get.
Replies (38)
lilschtive on 11/16/2005 23:39:07
Also, can i get some help on those JL's? They are 10 inches, and 8 ohm. I need some info on them myself.
P0werLifter on 11/17/2005 02:53:05
JL's highest model is a w7, not a w8, The Ohm rating for the subs you have is 8ohm? I think the w7s are 3ohm coils.....
swez on 11/17/2005 12:00:15
These are an older series JL's. SVC, 8 ohms/sub; power is 125 Wrms/sub. Lemme see if I can find the link to them for you.
I am guessing they are 10W0-8 or 10W1-8 subs. Both are similar in power and such. Not sure which one you have.
Here are the specs on the 10W0 series for your reference. The W1 series has slightly different T/S specs, but similar performance.
Discontinued sub specs:
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=15
Swez
PS There is no listing on JL website for a W8 series sub.
swez on 11/17/2005 14:33:41
Lilguy,
I wanted to give you a heads up on working with the guys on this board. (especially me) We are busy people who donate time and effort to help others become successful in their car installs.
To do this well, it takes a good flow of 2-way communication between the techs and the helpee. I am happy to help all who come for assistance. However, when we ask topic related questions and don't get the answers requested, communication breaks down and we stop offering help.
Now, I have 2 questions to ask about this new project. If you answer them, I will support you. However, if you choose to ignore them or "forget" to fill in the details, count me out. Ready?
1. That amp mentioned, what are the fuse ratings of this amp? (I have asked this question 4 times now)
2. How much enclosure space is available for your sub(s). Maximum height, width and depth are the key parameters needed.
If you need a wedge design to fit behind the front seat, give base depth and top depth info. (D1 & D2 is the common reference used)
Based on these answers, we'll try to help sort out a design that will work best in this truck.
Here is an example of dimensions needed:
http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/boxcalcs.asp
Swez
PS I am not MAD at you. However, I am frustrated by the lack of follow up answers to questions I have posed before. I know you are new to all this stuff and we all start there. (NEWBIE) But, I am an old fart with limited patience. Let's try one more time and get things right this time OK? THINK
Ash on 11/17/2005 19:03:39
I have a 86 B2000 pickup as well and have experimented with different sub setups.
The main problem I found is the limited cab space which presents two problems:
1. The small cab has very limited enclosure mounting room (unless you have a kingcab and use small subs).
2. Normal recommended box Qtc's (.707) with lower roll-offs yield exaggerated bass ("one note boom").
What I found to work best in the small cabin is small woofers (8") with a low QTS with a higher EBP. This results in a flat response (QTC=.7 to .8) with a high F3 roll-off (60-80hz).
Reasons I liked this better are the cabin gain is much greater than larger autos eliminating the need for large woofers; thus the 8"s, with moderate power, will be louder in the small environment. The flat response w/ high F3 will make better use of the natural higher rise in lower frequencies (40- 50hz), thus extending the woofers response without extensive enclosure airspace.
Not that it is impossible to do it with bigger subs, but it is a lot easier with better benefits with an 8" of that type. I know it sounds like a bunch of technical blah-blah but, the results have netted me a lot of compliments with thoughts that they were 10".
Just something to think about.
lilschtive on 11/17/2005 23:10:14
swez---I will get you that information as soon as i can. ill go look for everything this weekend once i get done with school
ash---wow, that just inspired me. Yes , i do have the masda b2000 87'. What 8's or 10's do you think would do well? ill spend some cash for it to be big bass.
lilschtive on 11/17/2005 23:11:02
By the way, i did have a pair of 8's in the back, but my brother TOOK them! so thats why i need to get a new pair.
Ash on 11/18/2005 06:16:16
Check these out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-Credence-Speakers-8-Subwoofer-CSS84C_W0QQitemZ5831254546QQcategoryZ18802QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=295-545&DID=7&raid=46&rak=295-545
Run these with a 300rms 2 ohm stable Class D mono amp to get best results. You can get 10"s to work, but they will take up a lot more room in the already cramped environment. I had mine mounted in two .4cft sealed boxes (Daytons). My favorites were the Credences in about .33cft sealed each.
Ash on 11/18/2005 09:42:17
Forgot to mention:
As for the mids and highs in this truck; the factory locations are very poor. The 4" front stage is presented in the lower dash corners, facing downward towards the legs. I have tried some high dollar Memphis coaxials with swivel tweeters and ran off a amp. I aimed the tweets to the most upward postion to draw up the soundstage; results not good.
The rears actually are 5" and are located in the high rear sides (too close for proper rear fill). They will not hold a 5.25", only a 4" or 5" (which is hard to find). I used another pair of the same coaxials for the rears (HU powered) and swiveled the tweeters towards the back to help keep more sound up front. With the mounting hole oversized, damping material will have to be used to cover the gaps around the speaker, though a 4" easily matches the mounting screw holes...?????
My remedy suggestion is build some pods for the lower doors that will hold a more powerful 5.25" comp set. It is quite possible holes may have to be cut in the doors to do this. You could use the kick panels but, I believe a cpu is mounted behind the passenger side. This will cause for some extensive panel fabbing and relocation of the module. Either way, it is a bit of a task to get good soundstage in this truck but, it is not impossible. Just takes a little creativity, patience, and subjective auditioning.
lilschtive on 11/18/2005 22:05:18
I think im going to go with a pair of 10's in the back. Is it plossible to find a good set of speakers with a box already fitted for it?
Ash on 11/18/2005 23:10:33
You mean the subs with a box or the mids?
lilschtive on 11/19/2005 14:59:55
the subs for behind the passenger and driver seats.
see thats what i think im going for : two 10' subs behind us that already have an enclosure
lilschtive on 11/19/2005 15:01:31
today is saturday and its car day ill get the demensions for the read seats as soon as i can
lilschtive on 11/22/2005 20:18:00
What do you think? i would get 2 of the subs btw.. Would they fit? would it sound good?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-614
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-740
Ash on 11/23/2005 16:55:36
Would they fit?....nope. Not in that box. The mounting depth on that sub is 7.25", plus your'e gonna need some extra for the voice coil to breathe. That box's total external depth is only 7.25" at the bottom end of the taper. I doubt you will be able to even get them in there. Not to mention that the wood is 1/2" particle board. That will not stand up to the weight & pressure of a competent sub.
It appears to me that you really need to set things in order. First you wanted 8"s, then 10"s, now 12"s. You do realize the limitation of room in this truck don't ya? Going to a bigger sub is going to require one that can go in a extremely small box and still have a decent frequency response. The one brand I pointed out earlier can do it.
Ash on 11/23/2005 18:32:39
If you are willing to go with a 10", which in my opinion, is adequate enough for good SPL in that truck; you should check out this one:
http://credencespeakers.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CSI&Product_Code=CSS104CCH-single&Category_Code=1S
Occasionally you can find a pair that the manufacturer is selling on Ebay as they get rid of overstock frequently. Much cheaper than buying from their website! The 10" will go in as small as .33cft and up to .65cft sealed. They can also be ported as well if you can fit the lengthy port. A good class D sub amp with matching rms power will do these some good.
They will have the 8" version (CSS84C) there too most of the time, if you decide upon them as well. Don't be skeptical on the brand name. If you read up on the company, you will be surprised at who they really are and what you will be getting!. To find them on Ebay do a search on "Credence" in the "consumer electronics" section. If you have any other thoughts, feel free to share.
lilschtive on 11/23/2005 21:51:34
your right. Im going with 10's now. The omnes i alreayd have. I think ill stick with my 2 10' jls and put them in this box?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-612
would that make smoe noise?
btw..the jls are 5.5-6 inches deep
Ash on 11/23/2005 22:19:44
No doubt, if the specs match those subs, it will work. Yet, again I have to disagree on the box's stability. For about half that price (remember shipping too) if you are willing to try and maybe with a friends help you can build a better one. I'm mainly concerned with this box's thin baffle (board the subs sit in) which happens to be only 1/2 inch. You should'nt use a box with a baffle less than 3/4 inch. Reason is, this is the piece that recieves the most vibration from the woofer and can tend to "color" the subs output if not properly built. At times it is possible to even break it!
Even with the power handling being 125, you still would want a well dampened enclosure. If there is no changing your mind then I guess your going to have to deal with the results, whatever it may be. If your going to try it, I would suggest going to the Walmart fabric section and getting some poly-fil (polyester pillow stuffing). Stuff each box to about 50-75% with the fill. Be sure not to overdo it and cause frictional losses. You will also need to get a set of waffle speaker grills to make sure they don't rub up against the back of the seat.
Good Luck,
swez on 11/24/2005 12:58:39
That enclosure size should be a good fit for your JL subs. The older W0 and W1 series subs recommend a sealed box of 0.75 ft^3 (cf) per sub.
As Ash mentioned, some polyfill in each box, should help with low end bass performance. Figure about 8 oz of loose fill or sheets of 1.5" thickness on back, sides, top and bottom, should do the trick.
Take careful measurements before you order the boxes and by all means, use waffle type grills to protect your sub cones. PE has them as well.
Grill covers: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-373
Polyfill: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=260-317 (A 1 lb bag should be enough for both boxes... 1/2lb/box)
Swez
lilschtive on 11/24/2005 13:00:44
Thanks, this is great news. So once i get those JL's in the back, i think my car should "kick".
swez on 11/24/2005 14:11:54
Yes, it should kick pretty good if your amp has about 300 Wrms @ 4 ohms, available to your JL subs.
Did you get a chance to dig out that mentioned amp yet and look at the fuses in it? If this is the Legacy 1870 amp, it's max current draw is 40A. In bridge mode, it will deliver about 450 Wrms @ 4 ohms. A wee bit strong for your present JL's. However, adjusting the input gain "CAREFULLY", it should be safe for your present subs.
http://www.legacycaraudio.com/manuals/RED2AMP.pdf
My concern here, is that your amp may be a bit strong for these subs when bridged MONO. Specs on Legacy .pdf indicate this to be true.
You'll have 1 option here:
1. Bridge the amp to MONO and wire the subs (parallel)
I'd hate to see you fry these older subs and have to start over. So, in this application, use minimal bass boost, (+3dB max, HU and amp) and set your gains on amp at 2.5 volts initially and tweak from there.
This amp has an RCA voltage input range of 1/4 to 2.5 volts. If you have a 4 volt HU, a pair of attenuator circuits between HU and amp are advised.
What HU are you planning to use here? (make & model # please)
Swez ;-)
lilschtive on 11/25/2005 14:02:08
Ok i understand what you mean by bridging to mono..Now what is HU?
swez on 11/25/2005 18:21:46
HU = Source of music, Car Radio, CD player, MP3.... whatever you use in the dash to control your audio options.
Let's re-phrase the question: What radio are you planning to use in your truck? Example: Pioneer DEH-2700
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-CkpWaWsMOUJ/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=300&I=130DEH2700
That's what we mean by HU.
Swez
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 12:02:28
Oh thats all? My brother had one installed before. I'll mosdt likely be using cd's in it. It looks just like the pioneer, but like a differant rand. Doy uo want the brand name?>
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 12:04:11
its a "Blaunpunct Cd169" or something like that. 169 watts im guesssing.
swez on 11/26/2005 12:09:56
If the RCA voltage outputs are 2.5 volts or less, you should be fine with this install.
Got a link to this one?
Swez
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 13:45:18
no i dont have a link. This HU is maybe..4+ years old. Heh....
Ash on 11/26/2005 14:27:57
That would be the Key West model.
http://www.blaupunktusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/138C45FC-734A-49F2-B706-FCAA1DF8A91D/0/KEYWEST169.pdf
2 volt ouput.
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 15:42:29
Ash and Swez...both are you guys are a great help! look at that fast response. And yes, that is my HU. So is it ok Swez?
Ash on 11/26/2005 16:10:23
It will work fine. Just keep your amp gain settings low.
swez on 11/26/2005 17:31:45
I am really busting a gut about how all this is turning out. In spite of the lack of background you have to date Lil, everything is falling into place "like a well planned system". I think the Car Audio gods are hanging out on your shoulder bud. GRIN
Yes, when you install your subs and amp, set the amp gains to about 2.5 volts and you should be fine. A 4 volt HU would drive the amp harder and destroy your JL subs. However, if you do change to a newer HU someday,(4 volt outs) there is a fix. But we need not cross that bridge til ya get there.
Swez
PS I am laughing and you can too. Am not laughing at you either. It's just a mystery how all this is falling into place. Do 16 year olds have good belly laughs? This 50 year old fart is sure in "chuckle mode" at the moment. Join me eh?
I gotta go... my MEDS... are kickin in!
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 18:40:50
hahah yeah this is kind of a mystery on how this is working. i got 3 questions for ya big guy:
1)Where can i set the amp's gain?
2)Does the legacy amp actually match the JL's?
3)Am I aloud to turn the volume up...loud? to the max?
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 18:42:55
By the way, i already have my amp set and everything. I have tried it before with the JL's on ....on preety high volume. It seemed to have worked fine. Do you think when i have the right boxes, and right gain, it will be even louder?
*Laughs*
lilschtive on 11/26/2005 18:46:21
Im just going to ask more questions to make sure everything works out fine. Besides, i planned this system. :p
-When i order the 1lb bag of polyfill, am i supposed to just plop it in there, or should i spread it around?
-another thing: When i screw the JL's into the Single truck box, won't air leak between the screw and the metal holes? do i put smoe sort of caulking in there?
swez on 11/26/2005 20:48:55
1. Set amp gains between 2.0 - 2.5 volts initially. Once you have them sounding clean and pretty loud, a few tweaks is all that's left to be done.
2. Actually, the amp and subs are a pretty good match here. Wire your subs in parallel to the bridge amp (good to go at 4 ohms) This amp seems a little strong for these subs. So, if you hear some mechanical noises from the subs, back it down. (use minimal bass boost here OK... +3dB boost is plenty)
3. Yes, you can turn it up loud... but if you hear the subs groaning... back off a few notches on the bass feature in your HU.
4. Yes, it should be plenty loud in a truck of this size!
5. Polyfill, split the contents into equal halves. Half to each box. Best to spread it out inside the box to about 1-1/2" thick and staple it in place so it doesn't float around in the box loose.
6. Since you have carpeting over these boxes, this will act like a gasket and seal any leaks.
FYI: Pre-drill your screw holes with a 1/8" drill bit. Then use #8 x 1" Phillips head sheet metal screws to hold the subs secure. (4 screws per sub min.) Also, go slow when driving your screws into the box. Don't let the bit slip or you could punch a hole in the surrounds!
Are you planning to buy waffle covers for your subs too? I hope so. These will protect your sub cones from damage. Well worth the few extra bucks. Just go easy on the clamps when you torque down the hardware screws. These are plastic and it won't take much torque, to crack one.
Yes, you can get by on 3 clamps... 10:00, 2:00 and 6:00 positions for 3 clamps. If using 4 clamps, use 12:00, 3:00, 6:00 and 9:00 positions.
Are we almost there now?
Swez
Ash on 11/27/2005 06:23:25
It would be hard to predict what any system is going to do exactly without complex equipment and programs. I'm quite sure you will be fine with the output once it's setup and any adjustments are made. Yes, spread the fill around, but you don't have to be so exact with it.
Now the last is a good question. If you haven't ordered from Partsexpress yet, add two of these to your order:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=269-300
All you do is lay this around the sub mounting area of the box or the subs and all set. I wouldn't worry much about leaks for those boxes are sealed from factory and that speaker sealant should do the rest.
lilschtive on 11/27/2005 12:00:54
Ok! Swez, i heard what you said about the amps gain..But WHERE is it? haha i dont even know where it is...
swez on 11/27/2005 14:07:30
http://www.legacycaraudio.com/manuals/RED2AMP.pdf
Save a copy of this to your computer and print it for future references.
Gain control is shown on page 3, item #4.
You'll have to tweek it from min to max settings to determine the which position gives the quietest bass output to your subs. That's your starting point. (the quiet side adjustment) Here are the steps:
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t3
Disregard the comments on LOC's. You don't have them.
Swez
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