hi. i am looking for a pair of 12's to put into my 1995 honda civic sedan. i plan on getting the audiobahn a6004t amp. i also plan on getting a capacitor, since i am not really sure whether the alternator could take that extra strain that well. anyways, i want one dual sub box ported. i will spend from $200-$300(usd) for the two subs. which ones do u guys recomend to give me
a. best bang for my buck
b. least amount of distortion at high volumes
c. not break my wallet
???
thanks!!!
-dingaling
Replies (7)
Tray on 07/24/2003 16:48:10
First off,
Are you planning on building the box yourself?
or
Are you planning on buying a prefab box?
If you are building yourself, Earthquake DBX12.
If you are buying prefab, we would need to know which box and could probably find a decent fit for you.
I would personally look into a different amp, but I will not try to sway you.
DINGALING on 07/24/2003 16:57:38
prefabricated. why a different amp? i see it as a good deal, but i am probably wrong. 300w X 2? at around $200? i don't want to do the double amp idea, because of the whole alternator overdraw deal.
Swez on 07/24/2003 19:49:49
Hey Ding,
Let's look at the Alternator aspect a moment... how much ALT amperage do you have here and what size CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) is your present battery? Knowing those parameters... we can steer you a bit better in amps and subs.
Also, 2 channel amps typically are less effeicient than Class D amps and tend to draw more power for the same RMS output into a specific load.
A Cap can help a little for light dimming issues... but a better way to spend you hard earned money, is a larger storage battery... higher CCA rating of say 850 CCA as opposed to a stock BAT that may net under 600 CCA.
As for a low priced sub that performs very well... consider the Adire Shiva Mark III. At 125.00 each, a very good value! Here's a link to review them:
http://www.adireaudio.com/mobile_audio/drivers/shiva.htm
As for a power... the Shiva can manage ~350-400 watts RMS per sub, in the proper ported enclosure. I believe the 1 page summary has the details or look in the .pdf file for details.
Now, as for amps... Bahn is not a bad amp in general... just a bit pricey and Class A/B design. These amps are generally about 50-60% efficient... meaning for ever 100 watts of power it draws, you get ~50-60 watts output.
Class D, on the other hand, is 80-90% efficient. More power out to subs for the power they draw.
Care to rethink your amp choice? Also, do you have a web link to that amp? I could not find it in Bahns wed site... nevermind is an Intake series amp... I did find it! Looks likea 4 channel amp, 300 watts RMS x 2 @ 4 ohms per chennal when bridged.
Care to look at the JBL BP600.1 Class D amp. Is 600 watts RMS @ 1 or 2 ohm loads, draws 57 amps @ max power and under $225.00 on several e-tail sites.
Here's a link: http://www.justamps.com look under JBL amps... price here is $219.99 + S/H and can be had a for a tad cheaper if you shop it hard.
Swez
DINGALING on 07/25/2003 11:34:26
i was kinda wanting more of a name brand sub, and i don't know about one thing, please correct me if i'm wrong
4 ohms= one sub
2 ohms= two subs?
1 ohm = three subs?
and when it is 600 watts rms @ 2 ohms, does that mean that it is 600 watts to each sub or 300 watts to each sub? hopefully i'll be ordering my amp today... :) found that bahn at 180.
and with the subs, i was lookin at Sony XS-L121P5
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-ySh9aowaZvu/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=67700&I=158L121P5&o=m&a=0&cc=01&avf=N
btw, i won't buy from crutch, their prices are outrageous.
thannks
ryan on 07/25/2003 14:08:02
Car Audio subs are usually 2 or 4 ohm. You can change the ohms by how u wire the subs. Lets say u have two 4 ohm subs. If you wire them in parallel u get a 2ohm load. If you wire them in series you will get a 8 ohm load. If you have a dual voice coil sub there are alot more option u have. For instance if you have one sub you can wire it to get a 1 ohm load or a 2 ohm load which u wouldnt be able to do with a sub that had 1 voice coil. You can get wiring diagrams of www.jlaudio.com i believe there under the tutorial section.
Swez on 07/25/2003 17:53:35
Seem to me, your Bahn amp is what...a 4 channel amp right?
Well, to get the most performance from this amp, you'll need a pair of 4 ohm subs. Then, bridging the amp down to a 2 channel version is pretty simple. Just follow the users manual.
Finally, if you want a brand name sub... plan to pay a bit more or shop a bit harder. The Infinity Refereence 1220W may fit your budget and certainly a well known name. These are 300 RMS, 4 ohm sub and designed for low cost, high sonic quality and modest powered systems.
Have a look: http://www.justwoofers.com/Woofer_Pages/Infinity/infinity_Reference.htm
Price is right, can be used ported or sealed!
Swez
PS Personally, I would not buy Sony subs or amps if they were $2.00 each. Am not a fan of Sony's deceptive advertising and inflated prices. Much better out there for the price.... that's my story and I'm sticking to it! GRIN That's my opinion... take it for what it's worth. Too many guys buy Sony and wish they never did, after they get them. I have dozens of guys that have come to me about blown amps and defective merchandise complaints on Sony.
Buickman94 on 07/25/2003 18:15:45
"i was kinda wanting more of a name brand sub, and i don't know about one thing, please correct me if i'm wrong
4 ohms= one sub
2 ohms= two subs?
1 ohm = three subs?
and when it is 600 watts rms @ 2 ohms, does that mean that it is 600 watts to each sub or 300 watts to each sub?"
Before you buy anything, you may want a better understanding of impedence and wiring, it will help you alot down the line.
There are many different ohm configurations for subs. Some of the more common ones are 2,4,8ohm and 2 and 4 ohm DVC (dual voice coil.) DVC subs have 2 voice coils for more wiring options.
There are 2 different ways to wire subs, series and parallel. When you wire 2 subs of the same impedence in series, you double the ohm load or impedence. when you wire the subs in parallel, you cut the impedence in half. so 2 4ohm subs in parallel will net 2ohms, and 2 4ohm subs in series will net 8ohms.
to wire 2subs in parallel or a single DVC sub in parallel, connect the + from one sub to the + of the other sub. now connect the - from one sub to the - of the other sub.
for series wiring, just wire the + from one sub to the - of the other sub, now take the remaining + and - and run it to the same channel on the amp.
I hope that cleared things up a little for you.
You stated earlier that you "didnt wanna do that 2 amp idea". Just because you have more then 1 sub, doesnt mean you need more then 1 amp, or more then 1 channel for that matter. Most sub amps are mono amps, meaning they only have 1 channel, but can run a few subs. its all in matching the impedences.
Say you have a 1000watt mono amp stable down to 1 ohm. You can wire 4 4ohm subs in parallel to it, because 4ohms/4subs = 1ohm. each sub would get 250watts.
now say you have that same amp and only 1 4ohm sub, you are only getting about 250watts out of that amp even tho its rated at 1000watts. Generally speaking, when the impedence is cut in half, the power doubles. so...
250watts at 4 ohms
500watts at 2 ohms
1000watts at 1 ohm
I hope i cleared up a thing or 2, i know i was jumping all over the place explaining stuff. Basically, the key here is matching the sub impedence to the amp impedence.
a. best bang for my buck
b. least amount of distortion at high volumes
c. not break my wallet
???
thanks!!!
-dingaling
Replies (7)
Tray on 07/24/2003 16:48:10
First off,
Are you planning on building the box yourself?
or
Are you planning on buying a prefab box?
If you are building yourself, Earthquake DBX12.
If you are buying prefab, we would need to know which box and could probably find a decent fit for you.
I would personally look into a different amp, but I will not try to sway you.
DINGALING on 07/24/2003 16:57:38
prefabricated. why a different amp? i see it as a good deal, but i am probably wrong. 300w X 2? at around $200? i don't want to do the double amp idea, because of the whole alternator overdraw deal.
Swez on 07/24/2003 19:49:49
Hey Ding,
Let's look at the Alternator aspect a moment... how much ALT amperage do you have here and what size CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) is your present battery? Knowing those parameters... we can steer you a bit better in amps and subs.
Also, 2 channel amps typically are less effeicient than Class D amps and tend to draw more power for the same RMS output into a specific load.
A Cap can help a little for light dimming issues... but a better way to spend you hard earned money, is a larger storage battery... higher CCA rating of say 850 CCA as opposed to a stock BAT that may net under 600 CCA.
As for a low priced sub that performs very well... consider the Adire Shiva Mark III. At 125.00 each, a very good value! Here's a link to review them:
http://www.adireaudio.com/mobile_audio/drivers/shiva.htm
As for a power... the Shiva can manage ~350-400 watts RMS per sub, in the proper ported enclosure. I believe the 1 page summary has the details or look in the .pdf file for details.
Now, as for amps... Bahn is not a bad amp in general... just a bit pricey and Class A/B design. These amps are generally about 50-60% efficient... meaning for ever 100 watts of power it draws, you get ~50-60 watts output.
Class D, on the other hand, is 80-90% efficient. More power out to subs for the power they draw.
Care to rethink your amp choice? Also, do you have a web link to that amp? I could not find it in Bahns wed site... nevermind is an Intake series amp... I did find it! Looks likea 4 channel amp, 300 watts RMS x 2 @ 4 ohms per chennal when bridged.
Care to look at the JBL BP600.1 Class D amp. Is 600 watts RMS @ 1 or 2 ohm loads, draws 57 amps @ max power and under $225.00 on several e-tail sites.
Here's a link: http://www.justamps.com look under JBL amps... price here is $219.99 + S/H and can be had a for a tad cheaper if you shop it hard.
Swez
DINGALING on 07/25/2003 11:34:26
i was kinda wanting more of a name brand sub, and i don't know about one thing, please correct me if i'm wrong
4 ohms= one sub
2 ohms= two subs?
1 ohm = three subs?
and when it is 600 watts rms @ 2 ohms, does that mean that it is 600 watts to each sub or 300 watts to each sub? hopefully i'll be ordering my amp today... :) found that bahn at 180.
and with the subs, i was lookin at Sony XS-L121P5
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-ySh9aowaZvu/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=67700&I=158L121P5&o=m&a=0&cc=01&avf=N
btw, i won't buy from crutch, their prices are outrageous.
thannks
ryan on 07/25/2003 14:08:02
Car Audio subs are usually 2 or 4 ohm. You can change the ohms by how u wire the subs. Lets say u have two 4 ohm subs. If you wire them in parallel u get a 2ohm load. If you wire them in series you will get a 8 ohm load. If you have a dual voice coil sub there are alot more option u have. For instance if you have one sub you can wire it to get a 1 ohm load or a 2 ohm load which u wouldnt be able to do with a sub that had 1 voice coil. You can get wiring diagrams of www.jlaudio.com i believe there under the tutorial section.
Swez on 07/25/2003 17:53:35
Seem to me, your Bahn amp is what...a 4 channel amp right?
Well, to get the most performance from this amp, you'll need a pair of 4 ohm subs. Then, bridging the amp down to a 2 channel version is pretty simple. Just follow the users manual.
Finally, if you want a brand name sub... plan to pay a bit more or shop a bit harder. The Infinity Refereence 1220W may fit your budget and certainly a well known name. These are 300 RMS, 4 ohm sub and designed for low cost, high sonic quality and modest powered systems.
Have a look: http://www.justwoofers.com/Woofer_Pages/Infinity/infinity_Reference.htm
Price is right, can be used ported or sealed!
Swez
PS Personally, I would not buy Sony subs or amps if they were $2.00 each. Am not a fan of Sony's deceptive advertising and inflated prices. Much better out there for the price.... that's my story and I'm sticking to it! GRIN That's my opinion... take it for what it's worth. Too many guys buy Sony and wish they never did, after they get them. I have dozens of guys that have come to me about blown amps and defective merchandise complaints on Sony.
Buickman94 on 07/25/2003 18:15:45
"i was kinda wanting more of a name brand sub, and i don't know about one thing, please correct me if i'm wrong
4 ohms= one sub
2 ohms= two subs?
1 ohm = three subs?
and when it is 600 watts rms @ 2 ohms, does that mean that it is 600 watts to each sub or 300 watts to each sub?"
Before you buy anything, you may want a better understanding of impedence and wiring, it will help you alot down the line.
There are many different ohm configurations for subs. Some of the more common ones are 2,4,8ohm and 2 and 4 ohm DVC (dual voice coil.) DVC subs have 2 voice coils for more wiring options.
There are 2 different ways to wire subs, series and parallel. When you wire 2 subs of the same impedence in series, you double the ohm load or impedence. when you wire the subs in parallel, you cut the impedence in half. so 2 4ohm subs in parallel will net 2ohms, and 2 4ohm subs in series will net 8ohms.
to wire 2subs in parallel or a single DVC sub in parallel, connect the + from one sub to the + of the other sub. now connect the - from one sub to the - of the other sub.
for series wiring, just wire the + from one sub to the - of the other sub, now take the remaining + and - and run it to the same channel on the amp.
I hope that cleared things up a little for you.
You stated earlier that you "didnt wanna do that 2 amp idea". Just because you have more then 1 sub, doesnt mean you need more then 1 amp, or more then 1 channel for that matter. Most sub amps are mono amps, meaning they only have 1 channel, but can run a few subs. its all in matching the impedences.
Say you have a 1000watt mono amp stable down to 1 ohm. You can wire 4 4ohm subs in parallel to it, because 4ohms/4subs = 1ohm. each sub would get 250watts.
now say you have that same amp and only 1 4ohm sub, you are only getting about 250watts out of that amp even tho its rated at 1000watts. Generally speaking, when the impedence is cut in half, the power doubles. so...
250watts at 4 ohms
500watts at 2 ohms
1000watts at 1 ohm
I hope i cleared up a thing or 2, i know i was jumping all over the place explaining stuff. Basically, the key here is matching the sub impedence to the amp impedence.
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