Hey guys im new to here and the whole DIY car stereo thing. Ive got a head unit, and was wondering if i got Phoenix Gold speakers for my car, would they work well enough. Keep in mind i dont really want to have an amp/sub, and am on a limited budget. Any suggestions? Any better reccomendations for speakers? thanx.... any help would be nice.
Replies (13)
asplundher on 10/8/2005 08:40:30
Phoenix Gold is a good brand, but if your just going to run them off your HU then there's a few things you'll need to know.
All HU's (no matter what brand or wattage claims) are very limited on power. Even ones with a mosfet chip can only put out a few more watts than regular IC units. This will still only average about 17-20 watts rms per speaker. Being limited you will need to use highly efficient speakers so less power is wasted. Anywhere in the range of 90 DB or higher will suit your application. Yet you will want to avoid the cheapo brands that trump up their ratings by using lower grade, harsh tweeters, narrow frequency responses and such.
I suggest visiting www.crutchfield.com and enter in your auto's info to see what's available for that year. Then compare the sensitivity, frequency response, minimum RMS power requirement ratings and such. Once you have chosen a brand then you could check some other dealer authorized stores locally or online to see if they are offering a better deal. Crutchfield usually is a tad higher, but they will include wire harnesses, adapter plates, etc for free within your application. Others won't which can cost more in the end. Check the Scratch and Dent or Outlet at Crutchfield for some discounted items. They will still carry the full term warranty and can save you even more money. If you can, choose a matching (same series within a particular brand) set for the front and rear for good tonal balance. Very important, this one!
If you need any further help, don't be afraid to ask! Good Luck!
kappellhoff on 10/8/2005 12:59:59
so..... are you saying that i may be better off getting an amp for those speakers or getting different ones(i have a gift certificate for a certain store that carries a few brands ie. JL, Alpine, And Phoenix Gold). I wouldnt mind havin an amp, but i will have to save up more for it. Any more suggestions?
asplundher on 10/8/2005 14:04:41
Well that all depends on how far you want to go in building a stereo. Are you just upgrading the factory speakers or do you plan on adding more when your pockets can?
First give a full explanation of the equipment that you do have now and then we'll walk you through the rest.
kappellhoff on 10/8/2005 14:34:57
i plan on adding more when the pockets will allow(not an extreme amount though). At the moment i have a JVC KD-AR300. It a cd/mp3 disc player, has RCA jacks, thats all i have now other than a stock system. I wouldnt mind having a stereo that could be removable in case i get rid of the current car i have. Not much else i can think of....
asplundher on 10/8/2005 15:10:31
Well, you are already off to a good start with that HU so everything else will depend on when your wallet is willing. What is your budget for speakers for now? I believe your car has 4T's in the front and 6x9's in rear. That will make it very easy to choose a set.
asplundher on 10/8/2005 19:00:31
First thing you need to figure out a budget for the speaker upgrade so you get the best for your money. As time goes by everything else will fall into place.
swez on 10/8/2005 22:57:00
Ash is right... the speakers are the most important component of any good audio system. You can "invest" well in the better quality speakers and save the stock ones to swap back, when you are ready to sell the car.
The dash speakers in this model are either 4" rounds or 4x6 ovals. The rear deck is a 6x9 oval. (per Crutchfield site details)
Some of the dash speakers can be a real pain to replace. Depends on how they are mounted. Here, you can use 4x6" plate style speakers for best results. These consist of a 4" round woofer and a separate tweeter. This configuration will give the best overall performance to the front sound stage of your car. The only drawback here, don't expect much bass from them. This format is fine for midrange and highs. The other options are 4" round coaxials or 4x6" coaxials. (Depends on what's in there now) Consider brands like Polk, JBL, Infinity or Audiobahn.
http://search.ebay.com/4x6-plate_W0QQfkrZ1QQfnuZ1
In the back, a pair of decent 6x9" Coaxials will be fine. If they have high efficiency numbers, (90dB + at 1 watt/1meter) they don't need a lot of extra amping power to get them loud. This format will deliver some bass, good midbass and mids and highs. You may amp them or not, depending on your preferences and budget. ($50-75.00/set is a good number)
If you want some decent bass, then a sub with some kind of ampo is needed. A good single 10" and a modest amp, (200-300 Wrms) will do well in this car. Yes, you can go with larger gear for more bass if you want more bump and have more cash to spend.
Bonus info:
Amping the front speakers will help bring out the mids and highs to their best performance. This size (4" format) cannot take a lot of power. (25-75 Wrms/each is typical) The amp will need a variable HPF (High Pass Filter) to block lows above about 200 Hz.
If you only amp the front speakers, run the rear speakers off the HU amps. A 4 channel amp can be used to power the front speakers and a sub. This is the cheapest way to go. A decent 4 channel amp can be had for well under $200.00.
How does this sound so far?
Swez
kappellhoff on 10/9/2005 01:29:20
man.... that helps me out tons.....hahaha only problem i have now is my cash flow and being up in canada($ is like 1.5 of urs). hahah thanx soooo much for that help.... im gunna try to do that eventually.
ttocs on 10/9/2005 09:31:41
You will get a huge gain if those are the 15 yr old factory speakers. My first G-friend in high school had a 6000, I remember alot about that car, but not much I can get into on here and it isn't about stereos.... Back to reality, um, yea... A good set of 6 x 9's will sound pretty good in the rear, better yet if you amp everything.
swez on 10/9/2005 09:51:33
Ahhh, the good old days again...
I drove several Cutlass Ciera's back then too. All were company cars and the sound system in them really sucked as stock. Upgrading the speakers alone, will make a huge difference in what you hear.
Swez
asplundher on 10/9/2005 12:57:22
If you can get a hold of a actual crutchfield catalog then it will tell you the available space you have in the dash and rear deck. The dash's on GM's have a bad top mounting depth and tweeter protrusion problem. Sometimes it is hard to find a set that will handle decent power that will still fit. If you get the catalog then it will give you the info to shop all around. You might can contact a rep @ crutchfield and get it too. Just remember not to skimp too much on the speakers for this is where the sound will be reproduced!
kappellhoff on 11/2/2005 01:35:58
well, since i don't wanna make another post, i'll add in here, i have found a JL 10w1-8 for a sub and was wondering, since it is 8 ohms, will it make a difference in what type of amp i may put in? my problem being that there is very few places to get a good, cheap amp. Guess my real question is, if i bought an amp for so and so amps at 4 ohms, will something like this still run an 8 ohm sub?
swez on 11/2/2005 09:01:01
Can you picture using a decent 4 channel amp here? The front channels will power your front speakers and the rear channels can be bridged to power a sub. The rear speakers can still be run off the HU amplifiers with good results. (they are only rear fill anyway)
I'd shy away from an 8 ohm sub here if you use only one. If you went with a pair, that nets 4 ohms and would be more suitable. In fact, if you went with a 4 channel amp, use a 4 ohm woofer. Nothing wrong with JL subs. (even the older models) But not a single 8 ohm unit for car applications.
Swez
PS I see I repeated my earlier response on a decent powered 4 channel amp. Good reason for it too. It works!
Replies (13)
asplundher on 10/8/2005 08:40:30
Phoenix Gold is a good brand, but if your just going to run them off your HU then there's a few things you'll need to know.
All HU's (no matter what brand or wattage claims) are very limited on power. Even ones with a mosfet chip can only put out a few more watts than regular IC units. This will still only average about 17-20 watts rms per speaker. Being limited you will need to use highly efficient speakers so less power is wasted. Anywhere in the range of 90 DB or higher will suit your application. Yet you will want to avoid the cheapo brands that trump up their ratings by using lower grade, harsh tweeters, narrow frequency responses and such.
I suggest visiting www.crutchfield.com and enter in your auto's info to see what's available for that year. Then compare the sensitivity, frequency response, minimum RMS power requirement ratings and such. Once you have chosen a brand then you could check some other dealer authorized stores locally or online to see if they are offering a better deal. Crutchfield usually is a tad higher, but they will include wire harnesses, adapter plates, etc for free within your application. Others won't which can cost more in the end. Check the Scratch and Dent or Outlet at Crutchfield for some discounted items. They will still carry the full term warranty and can save you even more money. If you can, choose a matching (same series within a particular brand) set for the front and rear for good tonal balance. Very important, this one!
If you need any further help, don't be afraid to ask! Good Luck!
kappellhoff on 10/8/2005 12:59:59
so..... are you saying that i may be better off getting an amp for those speakers or getting different ones(i have a gift certificate for a certain store that carries a few brands ie. JL, Alpine, And Phoenix Gold). I wouldnt mind havin an amp, but i will have to save up more for it. Any more suggestions?
asplundher on 10/8/2005 14:04:41
Well that all depends on how far you want to go in building a stereo. Are you just upgrading the factory speakers or do you plan on adding more when your pockets can?
First give a full explanation of the equipment that you do have now and then we'll walk you through the rest.
kappellhoff on 10/8/2005 14:34:57
i plan on adding more when the pockets will allow(not an extreme amount though). At the moment i have a JVC KD-AR300. It a cd/mp3 disc player, has RCA jacks, thats all i have now other than a stock system. I wouldnt mind having a stereo that could be removable in case i get rid of the current car i have. Not much else i can think of....
asplundher on 10/8/2005 15:10:31
Well, you are already off to a good start with that HU so everything else will depend on when your wallet is willing. What is your budget for speakers for now? I believe your car has 4T's in the front and 6x9's in rear. That will make it very easy to choose a set.
asplundher on 10/8/2005 19:00:31
First thing you need to figure out a budget for the speaker upgrade so you get the best for your money. As time goes by everything else will fall into place.
swez on 10/8/2005 22:57:00
Ash is right... the speakers are the most important component of any good audio system. You can "invest" well in the better quality speakers and save the stock ones to swap back, when you are ready to sell the car.
The dash speakers in this model are either 4" rounds or 4x6 ovals. The rear deck is a 6x9 oval. (per Crutchfield site details)
Some of the dash speakers can be a real pain to replace. Depends on how they are mounted. Here, you can use 4x6" plate style speakers for best results. These consist of a 4" round woofer and a separate tweeter. This configuration will give the best overall performance to the front sound stage of your car. The only drawback here, don't expect much bass from them. This format is fine for midrange and highs. The other options are 4" round coaxials or 4x6" coaxials. (Depends on what's in there now) Consider brands like Polk, JBL, Infinity or Audiobahn.
http://search.ebay.com/4x6-plate_W0QQfkrZ1QQfnuZ1
In the back, a pair of decent 6x9" Coaxials will be fine. If they have high efficiency numbers, (90dB + at 1 watt/1meter) they don't need a lot of extra amping power to get them loud. This format will deliver some bass, good midbass and mids and highs. You may amp them or not, depending on your preferences and budget. ($50-75.00/set is a good number)
If you want some decent bass, then a sub with some kind of ampo is needed. A good single 10" and a modest amp, (200-300 Wrms) will do well in this car. Yes, you can go with larger gear for more bass if you want more bump and have more cash to spend.
Bonus info:
Amping the front speakers will help bring out the mids and highs to their best performance. This size (4" format) cannot take a lot of power. (25-75 Wrms/each is typical) The amp will need a variable HPF (High Pass Filter) to block lows above about 200 Hz.
If you only amp the front speakers, run the rear speakers off the HU amps. A 4 channel amp can be used to power the front speakers and a sub. This is the cheapest way to go. A decent 4 channel amp can be had for well under $200.00.
How does this sound so far?
Swez
kappellhoff on 10/9/2005 01:29:20
man.... that helps me out tons.....hahaha only problem i have now is my cash flow and being up in canada($ is like 1.5 of urs). hahah thanx soooo much for that help.... im gunna try to do that eventually.
ttocs on 10/9/2005 09:31:41
You will get a huge gain if those are the 15 yr old factory speakers. My first G-friend in high school had a 6000, I remember alot about that car, but not much I can get into on here and it isn't about stereos.... Back to reality, um, yea... A good set of 6 x 9's will sound pretty good in the rear, better yet if you amp everything.
swez on 10/9/2005 09:51:33
Ahhh, the good old days again...
I drove several Cutlass Ciera's back then too. All were company cars and the sound system in them really sucked as stock. Upgrading the speakers alone, will make a huge difference in what you hear.
Swez
asplundher on 10/9/2005 12:57:22
If you can get a hold of a actual crutchfield catalog then it will tell you the available space you have in the dash and rear deck. The dash's on GM's have a bad top mounting depth and tweeter protrusion problem. Sometimes it is hard to find a set that will handle decent power that will still fit. If you get the catalog then it will give you the info to shop all around. You might can contact a rep @ crutchfield and get it too. Just remember not to skimp too much on the speakers for this is where the sound will be reproduced!
kappellhoff on 11/2/2005 01:35:58
well, since i don't wanna make another post, i'll add in here, i have found a JL 10w1-8 for a sub and was wondering, since it is 8 ohms, will it make a difference in what type of amp i may put in? my problem being that there is very few places to get a good, cheap amp. Guess my real question is, if i bought an amp for so and so amps at 4 ohms, will something like this still run an 8 ohm sub?
swez on 11/2/2005 09:01:01
Can you picture using a decent 4 channel amp here? The front channels will power your front speakers and the rear channels can be bridged to power a sub. The rear speakers can still be run off the HU amplifiers with good results. (they are only rear fill anyway)
I'd shy away from an 8 ohm sub here if you use only one. If you went with a pair, that nets 4 ohms and would be more suitable. In fact, if you went with a 4 channel amp, use a 4 ohm woofer. Nothing wrong with JL subs. (even the older models) But not a single 8 ohm unit for car applications.
Swez
PS I see I repeated my earlier response on a decent powered 4 channel amp. Good reason for it too. It works!
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