I was just curious about sub sizes. What is better for maximum spl? 2 12" subs with 1000 to 2000 watt max handling (for the pair) with a matched mono amp, or 2 15" subs around 500 to 600 watts max (for the pair) with a matched mono amp? I guess the main question here is bigger better?
Replies (7)
compvr15s on 10/2/2005 00:22:03
not always bigger the better... enclosure has a big deal to do with this issue, people can make 2 12s sound like 4 15s just by enclosure type.... you may notice on some subs dont matter what the size, they can handle the same amount of power and have same xmax... but usually if you go with recommend box size the bigger size will give a few more dbs of bass... like if you have a 10 inch type r and you are comparing it to a 15inch type r will recommened power, the 15 is going to be deeper and louder.... the 10 is going to be more punchy and tighter.... what subs do you have in mind, we can go farther from there
swez on 10/2/2005 11:57:35
Also, look at the efficiency ratings of a given sub as a hint to SPL performance. Some sub makers rate their subs above 90dB of SPL @ 1 watt/1 meter. JBL and Audiobahn come to mind as high efficiency subs. They are more efficient, due to lightweight components used in speaker contruction. They do not tend to last as long at high SPL applications or in larger enclosures.
Others, like JL, Kicker, Diamond and such, have ratings in the mid 80's. These require more amp wattage to get them to X-max. These subs are generally more robust and use heavy duty spiders, cones, surrounds and motor systems. (that means they can take a pounding all day long)
So, there are trade offs to consider here. If you want a heavy duty sub that can pound hard all day long, go for a lower efficiency sub that can take that pounding.
Swez
PS Look at sub models in the same series and note the efficiency ratings of 10's, 12', and 15's. Most of the time, the larger the cone size, the higher its efficiency numbers will be. But like CompVR said, larger box designs will net more deep bass SPL. However, it takes less power to drive a sub beyong X-max. (full excursion) If a given sub is subjected to repeated over excursion, it will fail a lot faster.
lessismorespl on 10/2/2005 18:20:41
Yesd, very true on both accounts here. The key is hitting xmax w/out over excursion for loud clean bass, however in dB Drag many often run the subs into overexcursion multiple times.
The enclosure is everything, a 500 wRMS 10" sub in a well built snail shell enclosure will net unbelieveable SPL numbers. I have a CDT Audio 10" sub in a SPL enclosure that is 2 cu ft dual vented and tuned to 45 hz that produces low 150's w/ 400 wRMS going to it. When I first built the enclosure and ran in my car people thought I had 2 12's or a big 15. I have a friend that has a RE MT 12 in a 4.75 cu ft ported and tuned to 45 hz that has been taking first place in many of local comps around my area...hitiing 153.8 on his last run. So it is not so much the size, but the efficiency you allow the sub. The better the enclosure is built, the less flex in the enclosure, and what it is tuned to all play a role. There was a guy in 03 that almost made the world finals in dB drag running 1 15" subwoofer w/ less that 500 watts. So as the saying goes, or in my case as my name states....lessismorespl
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anonymous_a on 10/2/2005 19:49:12
I was actually looking at PowerBase PB-B1564 300 wrms- 400 wmax svc. I want to get 2 of these in a sealed box built to spec. and run them with an MTX 421d.I'm just looking for low end bass and high db's without dumping in tons of money so let me know what you guys thimk of this vs 2 12"s and running the MTX 801d.
swez on 10/3/2005 09:06:35
Not familiar with this brand. Did a few lookups to see them. Looks like a budget based sub here. Good efficiency noted, (90dB @ 1w/1m) and it "may" be usable in ported boxes too.
Did not see enough specs to know for certain. If you can get the Theil/Small parameters for these subs, then we can probably guide you to a good enclosure design as well. Without more details on this product, it's sort of a "grab bag" purchase. You may like them... then again, maybe not. The right enclosure would probably do them well.
Swez
Victor on 10/3/2005 10:49:37
I am using this sub-amp combo for the next install in a customers honda civic 1993 sedan,
http://jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO1202D&cat=SUB&ser=GTS
http://jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO601.1&cat=AMP&ser=GTS
Have a look, you can get the full combo, ie 2 x 12" subs and a 600wrms amp from JBL for around $ 500 if you look around a bit.
Victor...
lessismorespl on 10/3/2005 11:05:19
Powerbass is actually pretty good equipment for the price. That JBL set-up would really do the job though and the price fits almost any budget. I have always had good luck in the past w/ JBL equipment, (other than some of their older Series subs circa: 1996-1998), their amps hyave always been very durable, speakers exceptional, and sub, (especially the power series), have always done the job. That would be a nice set-up to consider.
The 421D is a good amp also, but do not look for any high numbers w/ a sealed enclosure, they are more for SQ applications to keep the bass more controlled. If you are looking for more SPL you definately need to consider a ported/vented enclosure for your set-up. Ported/vented enclosures allow for more efficiency from your subs. Subs are the most inefficient component in a a car audio system, by going ported/vented you would be allowing them somewhat more efficiency.
less
Replies (7)
compvr15s on 10/2/2005 00:22:03
not always bigger the better... enclosure has a big deal to do with this issue, people can make 2 12s sound like 4 15s just by enclosure type.... you may notice on some subs dont matter what the size, they can handle the same amount of power and have same xmax... but usually if you go with recommend box size the bigger size will give a few more dbs of bass... like if you have a 10 inch type r and you are comparing it to a 15inch type r will recommened power, the 15 is going to be deeper and louder.... the 10 is going to be more punchy and tighter.... what subs do you have in mind, we can go farther from there
swez on 10/2/2005 11:57:35
Also, look at the efficiency ratings of a given sub as a hint to SPL performance. Some sub makers rate their subs above 90dB of SPL @ 1 watt/1 meter. JBL and Audiobahn come to mind as high efficiency subs. They are more efficient, due to lightweight components used in speaker contruction. They do not tend to last as long at high SPL applications or in larger enclosures.
Others, like JL, Kicker, Diamond and such, have ratings in the mid 80's. These require more amp wattage to get them to X-max. These subs are generally more robust and use heavy duty spiders, cones, surrounds and motor systems. (that means they can take a pounding all day long)
So, there are trade offs to consider here. If you want a heavy duty sub that can pound hard all day long, go for a lower efficiency sub that can take that pounding.
Swez
PS Look at sub models in the same series and note the efficiency ratings of 10's, 12', and 15's. Most of the time, the larger the cone size, the higher its efficiency numbers will be. But like CompVR said, larger box designs will net more deep bass SPL. However, it takes less power to drive a sub beyong X-max. (full excursion) If a given sub is subjected to repeated over excursion, it will fail a lot faster.
lessismorespl on 10/2/2005 18:20:41
Yesd, very true on both accounts here. The key is hitting xmax w/out over excursion for loud clean bass, however in dB Drag many often run the subs into overexcursion multiple times.
The enclosure is everything, a 500 wRMS 10" sub in a well built snail shell enclosure will net unbelieveable SPL numbers. I have a CDT Audio 10" sub in a SPL enclosure that is 2 cu ft dual vented and tuned to 45 hz that produces low 150's w/ 400 wRMS going to it. When I first built the enclosure and ran in my car people thought I had 2 12's or a big 15. I have a friend that has a RE MT 12 in a 4.75 cu ft ported and tuned to 45 hz that has been taking first place in many of local comps around my area...hitiing 153.8 on his last run. So it is not so much the size, but the efficiency you allow the sub. The better the enclosure is built, the less flex in the enclosure, and what it is tuned to all play a role. There was a guy in 03 that almost made the world finals in dB drag running 1 15" subwoofer w/ less that 500 watts. So as the saying goes, or in my case as my name states....lessismorespl
less
anonymous_a on 10/2/2005 19:49:12
I was actually looking at PowerBase PB-B1564 300 wrms- 400 wmax svc. I want to get 2 of these in a sealed box built to spec. and run them with an MTX 421d.I'm just looking for low end bass and high db's without dumping in tons of money so let me know what you guys thimk of this vs 2 12"s and running the MTX 801d.
swez on 10/3/2005 09:06:35
Not familiar with this brand. Did a few lookups to see them. Looks like a budget based sub here. Good efficiency noted, (90dB @ 1w/1m) and it "may" be usable in ported boxes too.
Did not see enough specs to know for certain. If you can get the Theil/Small parameters for these subs, then we can probably guide you to a good enclosure design as well. Without more details on this product, it's sort of a "grab bag" purchase. You may like them... then again, maybe not. The right enclosure would probably do them well.
Swez
Victor on 10/3/2005 10:49:37
I am using this sub-amp combo for the next install in a customers honda civic 1993 sedan,
http://jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO1202D&cat=SUB&ser=GTS
http://jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO601.1&cat=AMP&ser=GTS
Have a look, you can get the full combo, ie 2 x 12" subs and a 600wrms amp from JBL for around $ 500 if you look around a bit.
Victor...
lessismorespl on 10/3/2005 11:05:19
Powerbass is actually pretty good equipment for the price. That JBL set-up would really do the job though and the price fits almost any budget. I have always had good luck in the past w/ JBL equipment, (other than some of their older Series subs circa: 1996-1998), their amps hyave always been very durable, speakers exceptional, and sub, (especially the power series), have always done the job. That would be a nice set-up to consider.
The 421D is a good amp also, but do not look for any high numbers w/ a sealed enclosure, they are more for SQ applications to keep the bass more controlled. If you are looking for more SPL you definately need to consider a ported/vented enclosure for your set-up. Ported/vented enclosures allow for more efficiency from your subs. Subs are the most inefficient component in a a car audio system, by going ported/vented you would be allowing them somewhat more efficiency.
less
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