I am currently in the process of putting together a moderate system that will be going into a 98 Buick Century. So far I have purchaced a Precision Power DCX 800.5 amp, Infinity 693.7i (6 by 9) rear speakers and 52.7i (5.25) front door speakers. I am currently using a Pioneer DEH-P3600 HU, But will soon be upgrading to the Premier DEH-P960MP (when I have the extra $$). The amp is rated as follows:
RMS (4ohm) 50 by 4 chan. + 200 by 1 (sub)
RMS (2ohm) 100 by 4 chan. + 400 by 1
The Infinity speakers have a 2 ohm impedance.
The question I have is what type/kind of sub(s) do you all suggest I go with ? I'm probably going to go with the 2ohm configuration. My music preference is rock/metal, but also have a rap & pop side to me if that helps.
p.s. I want as much clear booming bass as I can get from this amp.
Thanks in advance..
Replies (26)
compvr15s on 09/24/2005 14:19:25
have good powerful system going here... i really like the two omh option on those speakers.... nice amp too.... with 400 watts for the sub amp this is very nice... i have heard many good things about the alpine type R sub. this sub will handle the power and meet its full potential with this amp... are many good brands out there. but i know alpine is known for its good sound quality while still being able to get loud... do you want a single sub or do you want a pair... your trunk has uber space to work with so that wont be an issue if you dont mind the consumption of space.....here are some other subs to check into...
jl audio w6 or w7 (pricey but best on the market)
adire audio brahma
eclipse sub
image dynamics
RE (very clean sounding subs)
incriminator audio(no personal experience but hear good things on the net)
take a look at those, am sure there are many others as well. just a few that came to mind, these will all hold great sound quality and get loud... some may be power hungry subs i did not check, but if your interested just let us know and we can do some more searching. good luck
Victor on 09/24/2005 16:08:18
ditto.
thefury on 09/24/2005 18:45:38
I'm leaning towards dual subs; There for I would have enough room on the sub enclosure to mount the amp.
lessismorespl on 09/24/2005 19:45:56
Very good suggestions so far. Here is my 2 cents....
Since you would like to go w/ 2 subs, why not try the Alpine Type E 12's, they are single 4ohm vc's which would give you the 2ohm impedance on the sub channel, and they can handle 200+ ea, hence 200 + 200 = 400 @ 2ohms. I had won a pair at a car audio competition and was quite impressed, my friend has them in his Z24 now and he is very happy. They hit smooth and have great response. You can probably catch a pair for about $159.99 or so, maybe cheaper online. Here are a few more suggestions:
Eclipse SW7524.4 (apprx. $125-160 ea.)
MTX 4500 Single 4ohm voice coil version(apprx. $79.99-99.99 ea.)
Diamond Audio CM312D2 2ohm DVC (apprx. $119.99-$159.99 ea.)
Diamond Audio DS12D2 2ohm DVC (apprx. $100 ea.)
Memphis MC or PR single 4ohm, you can get these 2 for $100 usually.
JL Audio 12W1v2 (apprx. $119.99-$149.99 ea.)
Shop around, I think $ 4 $ your best bet would be the Alpine Type E's but there are several good subs out there for your set-up and sometimes the price is right!
You have a nice basic system going here. Good luck.
less
Victor on 09/24/2005 22:50:18
If i recollect Mr.B's words, " Product selection is 10% while installation is 90%"
All of the subs noted above are real good ones,
No matter which one u pick from these, Ultimately its all gonna depend on the Quality of installation and the Enclosure.
So pick anyone of these, but just be sure u dont go wrong in the installation part.
Victor..
swez on 09/25/2005 11:41:47
Good inputs so far here. The key to maximum wattage from that amp is a solid 2 ohm load.
1. A pair ot SVC, 4 ohm subs in parallel will do
2. A pair of DCV, 2+2 subs in series parallel will also work
3. A single strong DCV, 4+4 sub, wired in parallel will also get the job done (a ported/vented enclosure will net the most SPL and good SQ from a single sub) The box should be matched to the specs given by the sub maker you choose.
Swez
thefury on 09/25/2005 22:34:26
I appreciate everyones input and have been doing some research into some of the subs that have been mentioned here. My biggest decision right now is whether I should spend the bigger $$ on the higher end subs or just pick up a couple of the "middle of the road" jobs. I'm thinking about down the road when I get a newer car/truck and really don't want to be upgrading to much with the exception of just adding to the system. The amp should be delivered in a day or two so I still have a few more days to hopefully get some more ideas from ya'll and do some more "googeling" research. Again I'd like to thank you all for the input.. I'm glad I stumbled on to this site.
compvr15s on 09/26/2005 01:41:33
very clean sounding subs, the spl output is not as high as most of the mentioned, but will definitly fill your lower end needs.... a set of 12s would be quite nice, just make sure you get the correct config subs, need daul 2omh subs, wire each sub in series for 4omh load then paralell the subs together for a 2 ohm load...
swez on 09/26/2005 10:50:06
Infinity Perfects are a good SQL sub. (can get loud, stays clean) They tend to be a bit pricey as compared to some subs mentioned earlier. Not a bad product at all, just have to shop em harder to find a decent price.
Has anyone mentioned Alpine subs? They have several versions out there. The SWE is a budget sub, SWS is the next step up, SWR is the gold standard of the line and SWX is the power sub of the line. All are solid SQL subs with the exception of the SWX series. The SWX is srtickly for high wattage, SPL sub systems.
Have recommended the SWR series to many in the past and most, (if not all) were very happy with their performance, power handling and prices. This series can handle power very well and in a well matched box, you get plenty of SPL too. The 10 and 12" versions handle 500 watts (RMS) per sub. They have a 15" in the series too. This one comes in 4+4 DVC coils only. Power handling on the 15" is 750 watts (RMS). The 10 and 12" versions come in 4+4 & 2+2 DVC coil packs.
At 400 watts (RMS), the sub section of that amp will be pretty solid. A dual 10 sub enclosure will definitely deliver solid bass performance. A pair of 12's would also be fine, if you have the space for the larger enclosure needed. A single 15" sub will give you very solid deep lows too. Here again, the box design makes all the difference.
Finally, what are some of your favorite music types? Knowing that, the team can help tailor your enclosure to optimize the music you like best.
Swez
lessismorespl on 09/26/2005 13:45:05
I would definately consider the Type E Alpine subs, the wRMS ratings match up perfect w/ the amps output @ 2ohms, they are very durable, and hold bass notes well. You can usually pick them up 2 for $159.99 sometimes less if you shop around. The new Type E's have some new improved features which makes them a little better than the older version(the ones w/ the white cone), a better cone material, a bit more excursion, and better leads to the vioce coils are some of the improvements made to these subs. I think you would be very happy w/ a set of these. I had a pair of the old Type E's and they are still hitting hard in my friends Z24 after 3 yrs.
Crutchfield has them 2 for $149.98 + shipping, this is for the new version. Here is a link so you can check them out.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9TECyoIyYSE/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWE1242
Here is a list of sites to check out for best prices, I have done business w/ everyone of these sites and have never had any problems:
www.woofersetc.com
www.sonicelectronix.com
www.sounddomain.com
Good luck.
less
thefury on 09/26/2005 17:17:16
I listen to 80% Rock & Metal. (Zep/Floyd/Sabbath/Metallica/etc..etc..) But also enjoy some rap, R&B, 80's pop. A little bit of everything actually. But I love the power chord stuff. The One song that comes to mind that I want to really pound out is "One" from Mettallica. Thats the kind of bass that gets me...
lessismorespl on 09/26/2005 20:46:17
All of the above mentioned subs would be fine w/ that music. What your main concern is now is what type of enclosure, I would suggest a sealed enclosure to keep a tighter sound to the bass, most rock/metal has a fast paced tight bass, so a sealed enclosure would work fine. As for not wanting to upgrade, why would you have to? That amp is an excellent choice, you have decent speakers, and you have some great suggestions for subs. One thing to remember is the reference efficiency rating of the subs you choose, most higher end higher powered subs have lower reference efficiency ratings, you are only working w/ 200 per sub, or 400 total watts @ 2ohms, if you do decide to go w/ a higher end high powered sub, make sure it has a very high rating so it will respond even when it is only getting 50% of it's rated power. If you buy a set of 500 wRMS subs, equaling 1000 wRMS together and you are only giving them 400 wRMS, if the RE is under 94 dB's it will barely move b/c you are only giving them 40% of their rated power. If you go w/ any sub over 300 wRMS, make sure it has a RE of 95 dB or higher.
less
thefury on 09/27/2005 23:17:25
So basically I need to stick with a sub (or 2 combined) that do not exceed the 400 wRMS my amp puts out. Is this correct ? If so, my choices seem very limited. And I really don't want to purchase a seperate mono amp. (Not until next spring anyways). That is why I was/am hoping to be able to buy a pair of higher end subs; so I won't have to buy upgrades next spring. I've talked to a Crutchfield rep, as well as a couple of employees at BestBuy and Circuit City today and all I can say is now I'm really confused... But I'll learn.
P0werLifter on 09/27/2005 23:55:14
Just one thing to keep in mind, when talking to the majority of Reps at say Best Buy, Circuit City and many of the other big stores around town, most of their reps dont know jack about most of the stuff. Most of them know the bare minimum to sell the product. While there are exceptions, try to do your research b4 going in to buy something at a large store.
As far as your question goes: If your current amp is going to supply 400watts RMS, you dont want to go over board with higher end subs that require large wattage. You want to find subs that have around the same RMS as your amplifier will put out. If you want to run dual subs, buy 2 subs that will run 200rms so put together it will net a 400watt RMS load onto the amplifier. If you have a sub that is rated at say 600 watts RMS but are only able to give it 200watts that subs efficiency goes down the 'crapper' due giving it 1/3 the power that it is given to run at.
Also keep in mind you want to make sure your giving the woofer good CLEAN power, If the amplifier has to throw out more power than it is designed it will begin to clip the signal giving it distorted power that will fry the sub.
I suggest checking out the above listed subs and also try look the Adire Shiva Subwoofer. Very Reasonable and has proven itself as a very clean, reliable woofer with a great price. Check Out www.Adire.com (i think) and also check out Resonant Engineering. www.Reaudio.com
lessismorespl on 09/28/2005 08:19:51
Here is a good suggestion, since you plan to upgrade to a good mono amp nest spring,buy a pair of good 4ohm DVC subs, such as: MTX 7500, 8500, or 9500, JL Audio W6 or W7, Resonant Engineering SE or SX, CDT Audio 1215, Alpine SWR, etc... Get a pair of good subs that are 4ohm DVC and just use one for now until you decide to buy a mono amp for your upgrade.
Remember you may want to alternate the 2 subs so they both get a period of breaking in, that way you do not have a broken in sub and a brand new stiff sub.
I would look at subs in the 400-1000 wRMS range that are 4ohm DVC and research to make sure you get what you want out of the sub. In many cases when you get into the higher end subs there are few differences, it comes down to a matter of preference.
Consider this option, a good 400-600 wRMS 4ohm DVC sub would work fine w/ this amp and when you upgrade to a good Class D or Mono Block amp, you will already have both of the subs.
less
swez on 09/28/2005 09:21:05
Agree with Less here. Plan for the future upgrades and build off what you have now at the same time. A single 4+4 DVC that can handle about 500 watts RMS now is totally appropriate for your present sub needs. A 2nd matching sub will come in handy next spring if you elect to go for a larger sub amp.
Also, begin researching Class D MONO amps in the 800-1000 watt RMS range, that are 1 ohm stable. This amp will draw considerable power from your electricals too. That may mean some electrical upgrades in the future. (Ie: Big three wires, a larger CCA BAT and perhaps a HO ALT)
A sub amp of noted power range will draw close to 80A's at full power, coupled with your Memphis (what... 50A's ?) w/o sub amp section used. (more if you use that section for MB drivers) That, coupled with the cars' need for about 50-60A's to operate primary electricals, means a minimum of 200A ALT to make everything work properly, when you push the system hard.
This will take time and cash for upgrades. Plan ahead and buy what you need, as you need it. A stock ALT on that car is roughly 105 - 120A. Should be fine for your Memphis amp now. But, not enough reserve power for a larger bass amp later.
Swez
thefury on 09/28/2005 13:53:25
Can someone please explain this to me. I have my eye on the Infinity perfect 12.1 subs which have a power listed at 75-350 RMS. What does that mean ? and would I be able to use 2 of these with this amp ? I know there are better subs to chose from but it would be kind of cool to have an all Infinity speaker system. Thanks in advance. (again)...
swez on 09/28/2005 19:40:12
The power range noted (75-350) is a general recommendation of minimum and maximum RMS power the sub will operate properly within.
Of coarse, the sub will give you bass at 10 watts worth of input. But, to get the best from a given woofer, it takes a given degree of clean amping power to get the sub into optimal operating range.
The 12.1 Perfect is a 4 ohm, single coil woofer. A pair will net 2 ohms when wired in parallel. What's the best price you have found on them so far?
Swez
thefury on 09/28/2005 20:03:20
The best price so far is $128.00 ea at a place called Techtronics. (ever heard of them)? Crutchfield has them at $179.00 ea. I would prefer to buy them from a reputable business (such as crutchfield). So what do you think, would these (subs) be feasible with my limited amount of RMS power my amp puts out ? Or would you suggest a different rout. Any pros/negs will be deeply appreciated. Thanks..
Greg.
lessismorespl on 09/28/2005 20:09:03
Honestly, IMHO, for the money there are much better subs out there, actually I can think of probably a dozen or so off the top of my head that are more durable, more powerful, and better built for less money. I have never had good luck w/ Infinity subs, I feel the perfects are over priced for what you get and definately over rated. Just my opinion...but it comes w/ some well documented experience w/ the Infinity line of subwoofers. They make decent speakers, I think their components are a little over priced for what they are and they are definately over rated power wise, but they are still decent speakers, I'm just not real fond of their subs, especially when there are much better, more powerful, and better amde subs out there for much better prices than the Infinity Perfects.
If you do want to go w/ the Perfects, I would definately use 2 of the SVC 4ohm on this amp, and when you upgrade, try not to push 700 wRMS out of them, about for 2 wired in parallel is fine...anyhting more and they may begin frying voice coils. One SVC 4ohm Perfect wired to a 400 wRMS 2 ch. amp bridged caused the voice coils to fail in less than 5 minutes. So these subs are not very durable. Just a rant. Nothing against them, they are just not a great performing, nor a long lasting sub.
less
swez on 09/28/2005 20:15:59
I agree with ya Less. Infinity speakers and subs are way over priced for what one gets in performance and reliabilty. A pair of Adire Shiva's are priced at $125.00/each and each sub can handle more than 500 watts RMS.
One thing about Shiva's though... these are 8+8 DVC's. They work fine in 1.0-1.2 cf sealed enclosures as well. I built a custom box for a guy with an Intrigue and a 600 RMS Sony MONOBLOCK amp. (net 2 ohms) and they sounded very nice at that power range.
Yes, Shiva's look pretty plain and not so spectacular, but when you power them up... solid bass here.
Swez
thefury on 09/28/2005 22:34:35
Thanks for the rapid input. I just got back from C/City and checked out some subs they had on demo. I think that I may just have to go with 1 sub for now, and one that would match my amp perfect is the Kicker CVR 12. (RMS400/800peak). Anyone have any pros/cons on this sub? I'm starting to lose my mind on this decision. (whats left of it anyways hehe..) Back to the ol' drawing board I guess. I want to just give in and buy a decent mono amp with a larger RMS rating so I would'nt be so limited on my sub choices, but that would mean I'd need a high-output alt., maybe a cap., etc.. and I really don't want to drop another $1,500.00+ at this time. (or do I)? hehe
swez on 09/29/2005 10:45:49
Kicker CVR's are decent SPL subs that like large enclosures. You get the most bang in a vented box too. They are not all that efficient either.
Check out some of the Audiobahn subs if you want to make some noise. They have very high efficiency ratings and can get pretty loud with a modest amp system. Here, a single 4+4 DVC will get you good results.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1885
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1898
These are all high efficiency subs. (90dB + 1 watt/1 meter) The Kicker CVR series are typically rated for mid 80's dB at 1 watt/1 meter. The higher the efficiency number, the more SPL one can get with a modest amp. A well designed Ported/vented enclosure will give a few extra free dB's of sound too.
Swez
lessismorespl on 09/29/2005 21:15:15
The Kicker CVR's are good subs. The efficiency is low, but you would be running 4+4 ohms which would give you plenty nof power for one CVR, they can hit xmax w/ as little as 300 watts. I would get 2 so if you ever do plan to upgrade you already have your subs. Definately go ported w/ these subs. The subs are durable, fairly clean in SQ and can produce decent SPL when given some power, say 350-450 wRMS. I definately think this is a good decision.
Less
thefury on 09/29/2005 23:15:11
I think I am going to go with the Kicker DCVR-10. It seems to be my best option. I'll have the 2 sub configuration I was hoping for; The RMS is perfect for my amp (400rms); my amp will fit beautifully on top of the enclosure; and it all will fit darn near perfect in the back side of my trunk nearest the backseat. (with space to breathe). I listened to them at a C/City today and they sounded pretty good off of the infinity amp they had feeding them. And plus I have 30 days to return them if not satisfied. I just ordered the premier DEH-P960MP HU today and should have it by monday, and then it's time to go to work. Finally.
Thanks again for the input on this subject everyone. I'm looking forward to more of you'r input to my many questions that I know lie ahead for me with my new (re-born) addiction.
Like this one: What precautions/steps (if any) should I take in the winter months as to not destroy my subs due to the cold ?
Greg
swez on 10/1/2005 06:14:48
Don't play them hard for the first 10 minutes or so. This gives them time to warm up. As they warm up, the subs will burn off any condensation that can build up in the motor systems. Once they reach a normal operating/ambient temperature (50 - 75 degrees F.) You can kick up the subs as desired.
Also, new subs seem to work better, if you break them in a few hours with test tones and moderate power. The Kicker owners manual gives details on how to do this. (I think) Generally, use about 50% power to them, outside a box (free air) for a few hours will do the trick. Then install them and you should be good to go. This helps the motor system (voice coils in magnetic gap) to align well and gently stretch the spiders, surrounds etc.
Swez
RMS (4ohm) 50 by 4 chan. + 200 by 1 (sub)
RMS (2ohm) 100 by 4 chan. + 400 by 1
The Infinity speakers have a 2 ohm impedance.
The question I have is what type/kind of sub(s) do you all suggest I go with ? I'm probably going to go with the 2ohm configuration. My music preference is rock/metal, but also have a rap & pop side to me if that helps.
p.s. I want as much clear booming bass as I can get from this amp.
Thanks in advance..
Replies (26)
compvr15s on 09/24/2005 14:19:25
have good powerful system going here... i really like the two omh option on those speakers.... nice amp too.... with 400 watts for the sub amp this is very nice... i have heard many good things about the alpine type R sub. this sub will handle the power and meet its full potential with this amp... are many good brands out there. but i know alpine is known for its good sound quality while still being able to get loud... do you want a single sub or do you want a pair... your trunk has uber space to work with so that wont be an issue if you dont mind the consumption of space.....here are some other subs to check into...
jl audio w6 or w7 (pricey but best on the market)
adire audio brahma
eclipse sub
image dynamics
RE (very clean sounding subs)
incriminator audio(no personal experience but hear good things on the net)
take a look at those, am sure there are many others as well. just a few that came to mind, these will all hold great sound quality and get loud... some may be power hungry subs i did not check, but if your interested just let us know and we can do some more searching. good luck
Victor on 09/24/2005 16:08:18
ditto.
thefury on 09/24/2005 18:45:38
I'm leaning towards dual subs; There for I would have enough room on the sub enclosure to mount the amp.
lessismorespl on 09/24/2005 19:45:56
Very good suggestions so far. Here is my 2 cents....
Since you would like to go w/ 2 subs, why not try the Alpine Type E 12's, they are single 4ohm vc's which would give you the 2ohm impedance on the sub channel, and they can handle 200+ ea, hence 200 + 200 = 400 @ 2ohms. I had won a pair at a car audio competition and was quite impressed, my friend has them in his Z24 now and he is very happy. They hit smooth and have great response. You can probably catch a pair for about $159.99 or so, maybe cheaper online. Here are a few more suggestions:
Eclipse SW7524.4 (apprx. $125-160 ea.)
MTX 4500 Single 4ohm voice coil version(apprx. $79.99-99.99 ea.)
Diamond Audio CM312D2 2ohm DVC (apprx. $119.99-$159.99 ea.)
Diamond Audio DS12D2 2ohm DVC (apprx. $100 ea.)
Memphis MC or PR single 4ohm, you can get these 2 for $100 usually.
JL Audio 12W1v2 (apprx. $119.99-$149.99 ea.)
Shop around, I think $ 4 $ your best bet would be the Alpine Type E's but there are several good subs out there for your set-up and sometimes the price is right!
You have a nice basic system going here. Good luck.
less
Victor on 09/24/2005 22:50:18
If i recollect Mr.B's words, " Product selection is 10% while installation is 90%"
All of the subs noted above are real good ones,
No matter which one u pick from these, Ultimately its all gonna depend on the Quality of installation and the Enclosure.
So pick anyone of these, but just be sure u dont go wrong in the installation part.
Victor..
swez on 09/25/2005 11:41:47
Good inputs so far here. The key to maximum wattage from that amp is a solid 2 ohm load.
1. A pair ot SVC, 4 ohm subs in parallel will do
2. A pair of DCV, 2+2 subs in series parallel will also work
3. A single strong DCV, 4+4 sub, wired in parallel will also get the job done (a ported/vented enclosure will net the most SPL and good SQ from a single sub) The box should be matched to the specs given by the sub maker you choose.
Swez
thefury on 09/25/2005 22:34:26
I appreciate everyones input and have been doing some research into some of the subs that have been mentioned here. My biggest decision right now is whether I should spend the bigger $$ on the higher end subs or just pick up a couple of the "middle of the road" jobs. I'm thinking about down the road when I get a newer car/truck and really don't want to be upgrading to much with the exception of just adding to the system. The amp should be delivered in a day or two so I still have a few more days to hopefully get some more ideas from ya'll and do some more "googeling" research. Again I'd like to thank you all for the input.. I'm glad I stumbled on to this site.
compvr15s on 09/26/2005 01:41:33
very clean sounding subs, the spl output is not as high as most of the mentioned, but will definitly fill your lower end needs.... a set of 12s would be quite nice, just make sure you get the correct config subs, need daul 2omh subs, wire each sub in series for 4omh load then paralell the subs together for a 2 ohm load...
swez on 09/26/2005 10:50:06
Infinity Perfects are a good SQL sub. (can get loud, stays clean) They tend to be a bit pricey as compared to some subs mentioned earlier. Not a bad product at all, just have to shop em harder to find a decent price.
Has anyone mentioned Alpine subs? They have several versions out there. The SWE is a budget sub, SWS is the next step up, SWR is the gold standard of the line and SWX is the power sub of the line. All are solid SQL subs with the exception of the SWX series. The SWX is srtickly for high wattage, SPL sub systems.
Have recommended the SWR series to many in the past and most, (if not all) were very happy with their performance, power handling and prices. This series can handle power very well and in a well matched box, you get plenty of SPL too. The 10 and 12" versions handle 500 watts (RMS) per sub. They have a 15" in the series too. This one comes in 4+4 DVC coils only. Power handling on the 15" is 750 watts (RMS). The 10 and 12" versions come in 4+4 & 2+2 DVC coil packs.
At 400 watts (RMS), the sub section of that amp will be pretty solid. A dual 10 sub enclosure will definitely deliver solid bass performance. A pair of 12's would also be fine, if you have the space for the larger enclosure needed. A single 15" sub will give you very solid deep lows too. Here again, the box design makes all the difference.
Finally, what are some of your favorite music types? Knowing that, the team can help tailor your enclosure to optimize the music you like best.
Swez
lessismorespl on 09/26/2005 13:45:05
I would definately consider the Type E Alpine subs, the wRMS ratings match up perfect w/ the amps output @ 2ohms, they are very durable, and hold bass notes well. You can usually pick them up 2 for $159.99 sometimes less if you shop around. The new Type E's have some new improved features which makes them a little better than the older version(the ones w/ the white cone), a better cone material, a bit more excursion, and better leads to the vioce coils are some of the improvements made to these subs. I think you would be very happy w/ a set of these. I had a pair of the old Type E's and they are still hitting hard in my friends Z24 after 3 yrs.
Crutchfield has them 2 for $149.98 + shipping, this is for the new version. Here is a link so you can check them out.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-9TECyoIyYSE/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWE1242
Here is a list of sites to check out for best prices, I have done business w/ everyone of these sites and have never had any problems:
www.woofersetc.com
www.sonicelectronix.com
www.sounddomain.com
Good luck.
less
thefury on 09/26/2005 17:17:16
I listen to 80% Rock & Metal. (Zep/Floyd/Sabbath/Metallica/etc..etc..) But also enjoy some rap, R&B, 80's pop. A little bit of everything actually. But I love the power chord stuff. The One song that comes to mind that I want to really pound out is "One" from Mettallica. Thats the kind of bass that gets me...
lessismorespl on 09/26/2005 20:46:17
All of the above mentioned subs would be fine w/ that music. What your main concern is now is what type of enclosure, I would suggest a sealed enclosure to keep a tighter sound to the bass, most rock/metal has a fast paced tight bass, so a sealed enclosure would work fine. As for not wanting to upgrade, why would you have to? That amp is an excellent choice, you have decent speakers, and you have some great suggestions for subs. One thing to remember is the reference efficiency rating of the subs you choose, most higher end higher powered subs have lower reference efficiency ratings, you are only working w/ 200 per sub, or 400 total watts @ 2ohms, if you do decide to go w/ a higher end high powered sub, make sure it has a very high rating so it will respond even when it is only getting 50% of it's rated power. If you buy a set of 500 wRMS subs, equaling 1000 wRMS together and you are only giving them 400 wRMS, if the RE is under 94 dB's it will barely move b/c you are only giving them 40% of their rated power. If you go w/ any sub over 300 wRMS, make sure it has a RE of 95 dB or higher.
less
thefury on 09/27/2005 23:17:25
So basically I need to stick with a sub (or 2 combined) that do not exceed the 400 wRMS my amp puts out. Is this correct ? If so, my choices seem very limited. And I really don't want to purchase a seperate mono amp. (Not until next spring anyways). That is why I was/am hoping to be able to buy a pair of higher end subs; so I won't have to buy upgrades next spring. I've talked to a Crutchfield rep, as well as a couple of employees at BestBuy and Circuit City today and all I can say is now I'm really confused... But I'll learn.
P0werLifter on 09/27/2005 23:55:14
Just one thing to keep in mind, when talking to the majority of Reps at say Best Buy, Circuit City and many of the other big stores around town, most of their reps dont know jack about most of the stuff. Most of them know the bare minimum to sell the product. While there are exceptions, try to do your research b4 going in to buy something at a large store.
As far as your question goes: If your current amp is going to supply 400watts RMS, you dont want to go over board with higher end subs that require large wattage. You want to find subs that have around the same RMS as your amplifier will put out. If you want to run dual subs, buy 2 subs that will run 200rms so put together it will net a 400watt RMS load onto the amplifier. If you have a sub that is rated at say 600 watts RMS but are only able to give it 200watts that subs efficiency goes down the 'crapper' due giving it 1/3 the power that it is given to run at.
Also keep in mind you want to make sure your giving the woofer good CLEAN power, If the amplifier has to throw out more power than it is designed it will begin to clip the signal giving it distorted power that will fry the sub.
I suggest checking out the above listed subs and also try look the Adire Shiva Subwoofer. Very Reasonable and has proven itself as a very clean, reliable woofer with a great price. Check Out www.Adire.com (i think) and also check out Resonant Engineering. www.Reaudio.com
lessismorespl on 09/28/2005 08:19:51
Here is a good suggestion, since you plan to upgrade to a good mono amp nest spring,buy a pair of good 4ohm DVC subs, such as: MTX 7500, 8500, or 9500, JL Audio W6 or W7, Resonant Engineering SE or SX, CDT Audio 1215, Alpine SWR, etc... Get a pair of good subs that are 4ohm DVC and just use one for now until you decide to buy a mono amp for your upgrade.
Remember you may want to alternate the 2 subs so they both get a period of breaking in, that way you do not have a broken in sub and a brand new stiff sub.
I would look at subs in the 400-1000 wRMS range that are 4ohm DVC and research to make sure you get what you want out of the sub. In many cases when you get into the higher end subs there are few differences, it comes down to a matter of preference.
Consider this option, a good 400-600 wRMS 4ohm DVC sub would work fine w/ this amp and when you upgrade to a good Class D or Mono Block amp, you will already have both of the subs.
less
swez on 09/28/2005 09:21:05
Agree with Less here. Plan for the future upgrades and build off what you have now at the same time. A single 4+4 DVC that can handle about 500 watts RMS now is totally appropriate for your present sub needs. A 2nd matching sub will come in handy next spring if you elect to go for a larger sub amp.
Also, begin researching Class D MONO amps in the 800-1000 watt RMS range, that are 1 ohm stable. This amp will draw considerable power from your electricals too. That may mean some electrical upgrades in the future. (Ie: Big three wires, a larger CCA BAT and perhaps a HO ALT)
A sub amp of noted power range will draw close to 80A's at full power, coupled with your Memphis (what... 50A's ?) w/o sub amp section used. (more if you use that section for MB drivers) That, coupled with the cars' need for about 50-60A's to operate primary electricals, means a minimum of 200A ALT to make everything work properly, when you push the system hard.
This will take time and cash for upgrades. Plan ahead and buy what you need, as you need it. A stock ALT on that car is roughly 105 - 120A. Should be fine for your Memphis amp now. But, not enough reserve power for a larger bass amp later.
Swez
thefury on 09/28/2005 13:53:25
Can someone please explain this to me. I have my eye on the Infinity perfect 12.1 subs which have a power listed at 75-350 RMS. What does that mean ? and would I be able to use 2 of these with this amp ? I know there are better subs to chose from but it would be kind of cool to have an all Infinity speaker system. Thanks in advance. (again)...
swez on 09/28/2005 19:40:12
The power range noted (75-350) is a general recommendation of minimum and maximum RMS power the sub will operate properly within.
Of coarse, the sub will give you bass at 10 watts worth of input. But, to get the best from a given woofer, it takes a given degree of clean amping power to get the sub into optimal operating range.
The 12.1 Perfect is a 4 ohm, single coil woofer. A pair will net 2 ohms when wired in parallel. What's the best price you have found on them so far?
Swez
thefury on 09/28/2005 20:03:20
The best price so far is $128.00 ea at a place called Techtronics. (ever heard of them)? Crutchfield has them at $179.00 ea. I would prefer to buy them from a reputable business (such as crutchfield). So what do you think, would these (subs) be feasible with my limited amount of RMS power my amp puts out ? Or would you suggest a different rout. Any pros/negs will be deeply appreciated. Thanks..
Greg.
lessismorespl on 09/28/2005 20:09:03
Honestly, IMHO, for the money there are much better subs out there, actually I can think of probably a dozen or so off the top of my head that are more durable, more powerful, and better built for less money. I have never had good luck w/ Infinity subs, I feel the perfects are over priced for what you get and definately over rated. Just my opinion...but it comes w/ some well documented experience w/ the Infinity line of subwoofers. They make decent speakers, I think their components are a little over priced for what they are and they are definately over rated power wise, but they are still decent speakers, I'm just not real fond of their subs, especially when there are much better, more powerful, and better amde subs out there for much better prices than the Infinity Perfects.
If you do want to go w/ the Perfects, I would definately use 2 of the SVC 4ohm on this amp, and when you upgrade, try not to push 700 wRMS out of them, about for 2 wired in parallel is fine...anyhting more and they may begin frying voice coils. One SVC 4ohm Perfect wired to a 400 wRMS 2 ch. amp bridged caused the voice coils to fail in less than 5 minutes. So these subs are not very durable. Just a rant. Nothing against them, they are just not a great performing, nor a long lasting sub.
less
swez on 09/28/2005 20:15:59
I agree with ya Less. Infinity speakers and subs are way over priced for what one gets in performance and reliabilty. A pair of Adire Shiva's are priced at $125.00/each and each sub can handle more than 500 watts RMS.
One thing about Shiva's though... these are 8+8 DVC's. They work fine in 1.0-1.2 cf sealed enclosures as well. I built a custom box for a guy with an Intrigue and a 600 RMS Sony MONOBLOCK amp. (net 2 ohms) and they sounded very nice at that power range.
Yes, Shiva's look pretty plain and not so spectacular, but when you power them up... solid bass here.
Swez
thefury on 09/28/2005 22:34:35
Thanks for the rapid input. I just got back from C/City and checked out some subs they had on demo. I think that I may just have to go with 1 sub for now, and one that would match my amp perfect is the Kicker CVR 12. (RMS400/800peak). Anyone have any pros/cons on this sub? I'm starting to lose my mind on this decision. (whats left of it anyways hehe..) Back to the ol' drawing board I guess. I want to just give in and buy a decent mono amp with a larger RMS rating so I would'nt be so limited on my sub choices, but that would mean I'd need a high-output alt., maybe a cap., etc.. and I really don't want to drop another $1,500.00+ at this time. (or do I)? hehe
swez on 09/29/2005 10:45:49
Kicker CVR's are decent SPL subs that like large enclosures. You get the most bang in a vented box too. They are not all that efficient either.
Check out some of the Audiobahn subs if you want to make some noise. They have very high efficiency ratings and can get pretty loud with a modest amp system. Here, a single 4+4 DVC will get you good results.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1885
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1898
These are all high efficiency subs. (90dB + 1 watt/1 meter) The Kicker CVR series are typically rated for mid 80's dB at 1 watt/1 meter. The higher the efficiency number, the more SPL one can get with a modest amp. A well designed Ported/vented enclosure will give a few extra free dB's of sound too.
Swez
lessismorespl on 09/29/2005 21:15:15
The Kicker CVR's are good subs. The efficiency is low, but you would be running 4+4 ohms which would give you plenty nof power for one CVR, they can hit xmax w/ as little as 300 watts. I would get 2 so if you ever do plan to upgrade you already have your subs. Definately go ported w/ these subs. The subs are durable, fairly clean in SQ and can produce decent SPL when given some power, say 350-450 wRMS. I definately think this is a good decision.
Less
thefury on 09/29/2005 23:15:11
I think I am going to go with the Kicker DCVR-10. It seems to be my best option. I'll have the 2 sub configuration I was hoping for; The RMS is perfect for my amp (400rms); my amp will fit beautifully on top of the enclosure; and it all will fit darn near perfect in the back side of my trunk nearest the backseat. (with space to breathe). I listened to them at a C/City today and they sounded pretty good off of the infinity amp they had feeding them. And plus I have 30 days to return them if not satisfied. I just ordered the premier DEH-P960MP HU today and should have it by monday, and then it's time to go to work. Finally.
Thanks again for the input on this subject everyone. I'm looking forward to more of you'r input to my many questions that I know lie ahead for me with my new (re-born) addiction.
Like this one: What precautions/steps (if any) should I take in the winter months as to not destroy my subs due to the cold ?
Greg
swez on 10/1/2005 06:14:48
Don't play them hard for the first 10 minutes or so. This gives them time to warm up. As they warm up, the subs will burn off any condensation that can build up in the motor systems. Once they reach a normal operating/ambient temperature (50 - 75 degrees F.) You can kick up the subs as desired.
Also, new subs seem to work better, if you break them in a few hours with test tones and moderate power. The Kicker owners manual gives details on how to do this. (I think) Generally, use about 50% power to them, outside a box (free air) for a few hours will do the trick. Then install them and you should be good to go. This helps the motor system (voice coils in magnetic gap) to align well and gently stretch the spiders, surrounds etc.
Swez
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
