I recently bought a Lotus Elise which is a fantastic sports car (really a track car licensed for the steet), but has a really terrible stereo system. Actually, the entire Elise environment is hostile for audio. The interior is primarily bare aluminum and plastic with only two racing style seats and two floor mats to provide sound dampening. The stock stereo consists of a Blaupunkt Venice Beach HU with 4" dash speakers and 6.5" rear speakers aimed at the back of the seats. All of the speakers are low-end Blaupunkt. To further complicate things, the tuner does not get adequate reception because the of the antenna location and the fiberglass body doesn't provide a ground plane for reception. The last issue is not a problem for me since I don't listen to the radio anyway.
I realize that in this environment I won't be able to achieve high-quality audio, but I can't bear to listen to the current system at all. Some of the folks on the EliseTalk forum http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=133 have replaced the speakers with Polk db 400 and 650 models and report improved, but still not great sound.
What I would like to achieve is a very minimal system that will provide adequate sound quality without adding a lot of weight to the car. Ideally, I would like to have the following: An iPod connected to a simple preamp, (maybe just a gain control?) amp, and speakers. I never listen to the radio, and I really don't want to carry CDs around from car to car, so a full head unit is really unnecessary.
The system that I installed in my Miata 14 years ago uses a similar but more complex (and heavier) layout consisting of a Kenwood CD changer, Kenwood IR-only concealed preamp, Audio Control EQX, Precision Power amp, MB Quart speakers, and way too many pounds of Dynamat, MDF, cooling fan, etc. I really want to keep the Elise install simple. Any suggestion on equipment, or where I should start on a new system?
I know this is an odd request, so thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
John
Replies (3)
swez on 09/14/2005 14:29:06
I see your point. The Blau HU is not a bad place to start. That can still be used as AM/FM and perhaps CD source. An integrator preamp such as Audio Control Three.1 or Four.1i (and others like it) can give you AUX input features for I-pod, MP3 players ect.
You will need an amp to get the most from the present speakers or upgrades. Does not have to be a large amp either. A good 4 channel amp with about 50 - 100 watts (RMS) per channel to some decent speakers, should help a good deal.
As for improving the front stage speaker system, an amp and perhaps a 2-way Component system such as CDT noted, should help a lot. This will be midrange and highs only here. (150 Hz and up) Tweeter mounting is mission critical, for best stereo imaging and clarity. A modest - strong amp, will help these speakers a lot!
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-HD-42-4-inch-Component-System-101110.htm
As for the rear speakers, a solid pair of 6.5" midbass speakers will give you some decent lows. In order to get good lows, the speakers need adequate chambers to bring out the bass. If one can give each MB driver a sealed air space of 5.8 - 6.5 liters for each cone, that will give good lows to about 45 Hz.
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-HD-6-6-1-2-inch-Midbass-Speakers-101069.htm
The main thing to remember here... your best full range speakers are up front. The MB drivers in back, (firing toward back of car) is fine for lows. If you desire full range speakers in back, use a remote tweeter and crossover unit for this. Again, mounting the tweeters in such a way as you can hear them well, is key to a nice sounding rear stage system. Like these:
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-HD-62-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-101119.htm
If the speakers are a bit pricey for you, can drop down to the CDT Classic Components Series and save some cash. The Classics are very nice and many on this board have used them with excellent results. The key is adequate power to drive them and tweeter placement.
What do you think so far?
Swez
DesignIt on 09/14/2005 15:33:52
Swez,
Thanks! This is exactly the input I was looking for. The Audio Control Three.1 in-dash unit looks great and offers even more control than I was hoping for.
I noticed on TheZeb website that CDT also has an inexpensive 4" component system: http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-CL-41-4-inch-Component-System-101075.htm that might do well in the dash. If I went with these dash speakers, would you recommend that I try to use some sort of enclosure or foam baffle behind them assuming that there is room?
I will stick with the mid-bass only setup in the rear as you suggested. I prefer the soundstage to be as front-biased as possible so I don't really want the rear tweeters. Plus, there is probably not enough room in the car to move them farther than about 6" away from the seat.
Now to find a lightweight 4-channel amp...
Thanks,
John
swez on 09/14/2005 19:45:52
You are correct! The front dash speakers are usually best mounted in a decent baffle system. Even packing the dash with some polyfil, before installing the new driver, will help. Some guys insert some type of psudo-baffle to trap and block rear cone signals with very good results. the main thing here, is that you use a HPF (High Pass Filter) on the 4" as it cannot take much power at frequencies lower then 150-200 Hz. A little experimentation will help you figure that part out.
Also, with the Classic and HD series tweeters, they have a very nice effect when mounted on/in the "A" pillars of the front windshield, angled toward the center of the windshield. This practice will bring the front stage up to the drivers ear level and dispersion area of the tweeters will be expanded by the windshield curveture. Neat idea huh?
Good nuff on using MB drivers for the rear speakers. The lows tend to propagate around seats and other hard surfaces. Mids and highs are typically reflected or absorbed by objects in close proximity to their cone direction. With this setup as mentioned, you get decent lows in the rear stage, that bend throughout the entire vehicle. A low pass filter (LPF) can be used to limit the mids/highs. Here, your LPF can be adjusted below 400 Hz, to block mids/highs. A little experimentation will help here too.
As for an amp, most newer Mosfet amps can deliver adequate power in a small and light weight package. You don't have to spend a ton of cash here, to get something usable.
Amps to consider:
Alpine MRV-F345
Alpine MRV-F545 ***
The F545 has more reserve power and if you shop it hard, am sure you can find a good deal off e-bay or perhaps a local shop that is willing to deal.
Features: MRV-545
General-Amplifiers
4/3/2 Channel Operation
Amplifier Link Ready
DC-DC PWM Power Supply
Discrete Pre-Amp Stage
Gold Plated RCA Input Connectors
Input Mode Selector Switch
MOSFET Power Supply
MultiMode
Non-Fading Pre-Amp Output
STAR Circuitry
Solid Copper Bus Bars
Specs:
Bass Engine®
Crossover Network : 30Hz-200Hz HP / LP (12dB/oct)
Tuned Bass EQ (Variable) : 45Hz +16dB (Ch-3/4)
General-Amplifiers
Frequency Reponse : 10Hz-50kHz (+0,-1dB)
Heat Sink (WxHxD)in : 16-1/2” x 2-5/16” x 8-11/16”
Heat Sink (WxHxD)mm : 420mm x 60mm x 220mm
Input Impedance : 10k ohm
Input Sensitivity (for rated power) : 0.2 V to 4.0V
Power Requirements : 14.4V DC (11V to 16V)
Signal to Noise (S/N) : 96dBA (referenced to rated power)
Slew Factor : greater than 5
Speaker Impedance : 4 or 2 ohms(stereo), 4 ohms(bridged)
Weight : 4.0kg.
RMS Power (at 12V,20Hz-200Hz)
Bridged 4 ohms : 300W x 1 (Ch-3/4)
Per channel into 2 ohms : 150W x 2 (Ch-3/4)
Per channel into 4 ohms : 100W x 4
RMS Power (at 14.4V,20Hz-200Hz)
Bridged 4 ohms : 125W x 1 (Ch-3/4), 500W x 1 (Ch-3/4)
Per channel into 2 ohms : 250W x 2 (Ch-3/4)
I think this option will do you very well. It has plenty of power and only weighs 4.0 Kg. (~7 lbs)
What say you?
Swez
I realize that in this environment I won't be able to achieve high-quality audio, but I can't bear to listen to the current system at all. Some of the folks on the EliseTalk forum http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=133 have replaced the speakers with Polk db 400 and 650 models and report improved, but still not great sound.
What I would like to achieve is a very minimal system that will provide adequate sound quality without adding a lot of weight to the car. Ideally, I would like to have the following: An iPod connected to a simple preamp, (maybe just a gain control?) amp, and speakers. I never listen to the radio, and I really don't want to carry CDs around from car to car, so a full head unit is really unnecessary.
The system that I installed in my Miata 14 years ago uses a similar but more complex (and heavier) layout consisting of a Kenwood CD changer, Kenwood IR-only concealed preamp, Audio Control EQX, Precision Power amp, MB Quart speakers, and way too many pounds of Dynamat, MDF, cooling fan, etc. I really want to keep the Elise install simple. Any suggestion on equipment, or where I should start on a new system?
I know this is an odd request, so thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
John
Replies (3)
swez on 09/14/2005 14:29:06
I see your point. The Blau HU is not a bad place to start. That can still be used as AM/FM and perhaps CD source. An integrator preamp such as Audio Control Three.1 or Four.1i (and others like it) can give you AUX input features for I-pod, MP3 players ect.
You will need an amp to get the most from the present speakers or upgrades. Does not have to be a large amp either. A good 4 channel amp with about 50 - 100 watts (RMS) per channel to some decent speakers, should help a good deal.
As for improving the front stage speaker system, an amp and perhaps a 2-way Component system such as CDT noted, should help a lot. This will be midrange and highs only here. (150 Hz and up) Tweeter mounting is mission critical, for best stereo imaging and clarity. A modest - strong amp, will help these speakers a lot!
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-HD-42-4-inch-Component-System-101110.htm
As for the rear speakers, a solid pair of 6.5" midbass speakers will give you some decent lows. In order to get good lows, the speakers need adequate chambers to bring out the bass. If one can give each MB driver a sealed air space of 5.8 - 6.5 liters for each cone, that will give good lows to about 45 Hz.
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-HD-6-6-1-2-inch-Midbass-Speakers-101069.htm
The main thing to remember here... your best full range speakers are up front. The MB drivers in back, (firing toward back of car) is fine for lows. If you desire full range speakers in back, use a remote tweeter and crossover unit for this. Again, mounting the tweeters in such a way as you can hear them well, is key to a nice sounding rear stage system. Like these:
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-HD-62-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-101119.htm
If the speakers are a bit pricey for you, can drop down to the CDT Classic Components Series and save some cash. The Classics are very nice and many on this board have used them with excellent results. The key is adequate power to drive them and tweeter placement.
What do you think so far?
Swez
DesignIt on 09/14/2005 15:33:52
Swez,
Thanks! This is exactly the input I was looking for. The Audio Control Three.1 in-dash unit looks great and offers even more control than I was hoping for.
I noticed on TheZeb website that CDT also has an inexpensive 4" component system: http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-CL-41-4-inch-Component-System-101075.htm that might do well in the dash. If I went with these dash speakers, would you recommend that I try to use some sort of enclosure or foam baffle behind them assuming that there is room?
I will stick with the mid-bass only setup in the rear as you suggested. I prefer the soundstage to be as front-biased as possible so I don't really want the rear tweeters. Plus, there is probably not enough room in the car to move them farther than about 6" away from the seat.
Now to find a lightweight 4-channel amp...
Thanks,
John
swez on 09/14/2005 19:45:52
You are correct! The front dash speakers are usually best mounted in a decent baffle system. Even packing the dash with some polyfil, before installing the new driver, will help. Some guys insert some type of psudo-baffle to trap and block rear cone signals with very good results. the main thing here, is that you use a HPF (High Pass Filter) on the 4" as it cannot take much power at frequencies lower then 150-200 Hz. A little experimentation will help you figure that part out.
Also, with the Classic and HD series tweeters, they have a very nice effect when mounted on/in the "A" pillars of the front windshield, angled toward the center of the windshield. This practice will bring the front stage up to the drivers ear level and dispersion area of the tweeters will be expanded by the windshield curveture. Neat idea huh?
Good nuff on using MB drivers for the rear speakers. The lows tend to propagate around seats and other hard surfaces. Mids and highs are typically reflected or absorbed by objects in close proximity to their cone direction. With this setup as mentioned, you get decent lows in the rear stage, that bend throughout the entire vehicle. A low pass filter (LPF) can be used to limit the mids/highs. Here, your LPF can be adjusted below 400 Hz, to block mids/highs. A little experimentation will help here too.
As for an amp, most newer Mosfet amps can deliver adequate power in a small and light weight package. You don't have to spend a ton of cash here, to get something usable.
Amps to consider:
Alpine MRV-F345
Alpine MRV-F545 ***
The F545 has more reserve power and if you shop it hard, am sure you can find a good deal off e-bay or perhaps a local shop that is willing to deal.
Features: MRV-545
General-Amplifiers
4/3/2 Channel Operation
Amplifier Link Ready
DC-DC PWM Power Supply
Discrete Pre-Amp Stage
Gold Plated RCA Input Connectors
Input Mode Selector Switch
MOSFET Power Supply
MultiMode
Non-Fading Pre-Amp Output
STAR Circuitry
Solid Copper Bus Bars
Specs:
Bass Engine®
Crossover Network : 30Hz-200Hz HP / LP (12dB/oct)
Tuned Bass EQ (Variable) : 45Hz +16dB (Ch-3/4)
General-Amplifiers
Frequency Reponse : 10Hz-50kHz (+0,-1dB)
Heat Sink (WxHxD)in : 16-1/2” x 2-5/16” x 8-11/16”
Heat Sink (WxHxD)mm : 420mm x 60mm x 220mm
Input Impedance : 10k ohm
Input Sensitivity (for rated power) : 0.2 V to 4.0V
Power Requirements : 14.4V DC (11V to 16V)
Signal to Noise (S/N) : 96dBA (referenced to rated power)
Slew Factor : greater than 5
Speaker Impedance : 4 or 2 ohms(stereo), 4 ohms(bridged)
Weight : 4.0kg.
RMS Power (at 12V,20Hz-200Hz)
Bridged 4 ohms : 300W x 1 (Ch-3/4)
Per channel into 2 ohms : 150W x 2 (Ch-3/4)
Per channel into 4 ohms : 100W x 4
RMS Power (at 14.4V,20Hz-200Hz)
Bridged 4 ohms : 125W x 1 (Ch-3/4), 500W x 1 (Ch-3/4)
Per channel into 2 ohms : 250W x 2 (Ch-3/4)
I think this option will do you very well. It has plenty of power and only weighs 4.0 Kg. (~7 lbs)
What say you?
Swez
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