I've got a problem with my system like everybody here. But like my profile says I've been installing for 15 years and have never seen anything like this so I'll run it by you guys. It is on my 1990 Talon that I use in soundoff competition. I'm using a Aiwa CDC-MP3 head, Coustic crossover, 4 JL 10's, Rockford 6X9's, Rockford 3.5" in dash. There's the main system anyway the problem is this: My remote turn on lead coming from the head unit makes the correct +12V all the way to the back where the amps are, then when as soon as it connects(both wires in my hand) it drops to just above 5V(5.4V) which isn't enough to keep everything alive and the whole system goes down. But if I connect it to the constant from the battery on one of the amps it will run the system fine, I just don't want to do that for obvious reasons. So what am I missing? Have I lost my edge? Or is it the month straight of Go-Fast modding that I've been doing has clouded all that I learned back in college? Please offer suggestions...If it's something really basic I'm gonna kick myself:)
Eiht
Replies (13)
Swez on 07/17/2003 21:19:07
EIHT...
Well, you have a voltage drop due to the number of devices that are connecting to the REM off your HU. Most HU's can only support ~200-250mA of current draw before the begin to show what you have now. That's usually a pair of amps and a small processor... unless you are using RF, MTX or a few other higher draw amps.
To put this one to bed, best to run a the REM line off the HU and feed to a relay. Then tap power from the IGN/ACC circuit. The relay solinoid is activated by the HU's 12 volt signal which in turn, powers up all amps and other devices that use REM. Be sure to fuse this relay circuit. (5A is good) but the relay will take 30A +.
This is not an easy malady to detect... but you need a new REM power supply to support all the amps and add ons. Not the run of the mill question for most installs... but in your case, YOU NEED A RELAY!
Do you understand the answer I just laid out?
Swez
Relax_The_Mind on 07/18/2003 02:14:18
If I missed it or not...Did you happen to mention what amps or anything else that is connected to that remote wire. Like swez said yes...remote wires cannot support that much current (like its called 'remote'). The way most relays and the relays that i used to get from radio shack (12v if u can find them the 20v will do you hook up the 5-20v input wire (remote wire) and the power straight to the battery and ground of course goes to ground the other wires are not needed. The REM voltage side must keep at least the i think 6 volts to stay on and shuts off when it drops below that. This way you dont have to use multiple relays as i have seen in other setups. It also prevents the few second it takes for each relay to kick in.
This is just another type of relay so as previously stated YOU NEED A RELAY!
RTM
Eiht on 07/18/2003 16:46:21
Good advice guys but it's already run through a relay. And was working fine a week ago. Not a bad relay either already tested it and replaced it just to be sure. Anymore ideas? I've even bench tested both of my amps on my O-scope and all is well. I don't know, like I said I'm stumped.
Relax_The_Mind on 07/18/2003 17:31:40
Well if a relay was used...(did you happen to miss any other info about the remote wire setup?) The hardwired relay I mentioned earlier might be the best bet for you. Therefore the remote wire would be used just switch on the relay and thats it. The 12v would be coming straight from the battery or battery source.
RTM
Swez on 07/18/2003 18:46:29
Sounds like you know what you are doing here... but the results are perplexing and vexing too huh? Try giving all pertaining details in your next reply so we don't cover old ground you have already looked into. Much appreciated OK.
Like RTM said... that's my read on the matter too... If you know the schematic layout of a relay (Bosche is most common) and this is used properly, the only reason for a lack of power is where the hot/grounds are tapped for power, off the relay. The HU REM feeds the solinoid of the relay, which in turn.... contacts inside allow a full 12 volts + to your REM buss.
Or, you can go direct from a battery tap and lighted switch at dash area, then back to a barrier strip that distributes a 12 volt turn on to all devices in the chain, that should solve this one unless there are other mitigating circumstances yet to be determined. Fuse this line low (3-5A) as you already know.
Also, since you are using a relay now, are you using a larger gage wire to REM the amps too? I would think #16/14 would be more than adequate here. Am sure you did... but wonder if you have a problems in that wire somewhere along the path as all worked fine a week ago right?
A last thought... when you had the HU REM circuits checked out, was there adequate voltage to trigger the relay?
Comments?
Swez
RTM Did I detect a hint of sarcasm in your last reply? No...not you. Only ttocs is allowed to do that on this forum... hehe
Relax_The_Mind on 07/20/2003 01:28:49
Im busted... just a little sorry about that. I was meaning for it to be funny but i guess it did come across that way. ;-)
Ever have one of those long irritating after you do your regular routine you surf to find something to do and find absolutely nothing interesting on the net. Then you check your email like every 10 minutes (as if someone is gonna email you at 4in the morning)
Well I am having one of those nights right now. I wonder if there is an irritating fairy. I mean there is a fairy for just about everything else from plum fairys to tooth fairys. I need an anti-irritating fairy device that i can wear around my neck or something.
well i gotta go check my email again...I might find something interesting.
RTM
hehe
Swez on 07/20/2003 11:00:53
Busted naw... just caught a glint of frustration in your reply and know what is feels like... getting only a poryion of the story and tryin to solve a real puzzler is vexing. I felt it too... but refrained the best I could.
Hey, we're only human...prone to human emotions and maladies. Just had to bring it to your attention as I have great respect for you already AND AM CALLING YOU TO GET PAST THE FRUSTRATION.... and try to deal with the facts (as presented) in a detached and non-emotional responsive way.
Feeling a bit bored or anxious? Well just write Ol Swez and we'll work it out together. That's what team players do for each other.
What are you so anxious (miffed) about?
Swez
swezdp@juno.com if you wish to discuss this privately... it's OK!
tuneless on 03/19/2004 21:09:04
Im having this same problem, but with the yellow or "conststant" power source comming out of my dash. Anything you hear to remedy this problem would be appreciated by me and I ll do the same for you. Thanx
cplkittle on 03/20/2004 08:48:06
just a thought..
Put the relay right behind the head unit, and run the power from the relay to the back.. maybe the remote wire is old or too long, and that is causing the voltage drop.. I dunno. Just something you can try.
Thought #2, use an ACC tap to power the relay.
If all else fails thought... switch it.
Thought #3 ( a few minutes later) Maybe one of your accessories has a bad connection on the relay input and is drawing too much power. Try connecting them one at a time.
swez on 03/22/2004 08:58:17
If this setup worked fine a week ago, then it went down hill... obviously, something has changed. Kit's #3 solution sounds like the best way to trouble shoot the system's REM feed. Look for:
1. Damaged wires feeding the relay
2. Damaged power link out of relay
3. Faulty HU REM circuit (not putting out enough juice to keep the relay in full contact position)
4. Fouled contacts on relay out section of relay
5. Current draw on 1 or more devices in chain has increased. If resistance goes up, the voltage/current will drop in proportion to changes in resistance of entire circuit
Swez
PS Don't feel bad... this is a very unusual situation. You'd have to be very up to date on installs and electronics testing, to track this one down.
ttocs on 03/22/2004 13:01:47
"RTM Did I detect a hint of sarcasm in your last reply? No...not you. Only ttocs is allowed to do that on this forum... hehe "
well then let the sarcasm begin..........
That is a strange symtom. I would hook everything up, and then start disconnecting the remote wires that go to the individual componants. Disconnect each amp and processor at a time and see if everything else comes on. If it doesn't then reconnect it and try another one. My guess is you have a bad componant that is drawing too much current from the remote... Check the fuses on the pieces. Sometimes if the main pwr fuse on the componant blows it will draw pwr from the remote...
swez on 03/22/2004 15:14:11
So... where's the promised sarcasm? You're so good at it ttocks. I may have missed it completely.... GRIN
Swez
ttocs on 03/22/2004 17:28:00
ah swez, that is really not my style ya know?
Now you are all really confused huh?
Eiht
Replies (13)
Swez on 07/17/2003 21:19:07
EIHT...
Well, you have a voltage drop due to the number of devices that are connecting to the REM off your HU. Most HU's can only support ~200-250mA of current draw before the begin to show what you have now. That's usually a pair of amps and a small processor... unless you are using RF, MTX or a few other higher draw amps.
To put this one to bed, best to run a the REM line off the HU and feed to a relay. Then tap power from the IGN/ACC circuit. The relay solinoid is activated by the HU's 12 volt signal which in turn, powers up all amps and other devices that use REM. Be sure to fuse this relay circuit. (5A is good) but the relay will take 30A +.
This is not an easy malady to detect... but you need a new REM power supply to support all the amps and add ons. Not the run of the mill question for most installs... but in your case, YOU NEED A RELAY!
Do you understand the answer I just laid out?
Swez
Relax_The_Mind on 07/18/2003 02:14:18
If I missed it or not...Did you happen to mention what amps or anything else that is connected to that remote wire. Like swez said yes...remote wires cannot support that much current (like its called 'remote'). The way most relays and the relays that i used to get from radio shack (12v if u can find them the 20v will do you hook up the 5-20v input wire (remote wire) and the power straight to the battery and ground of course goes to ground the other wires are not needed. The REM voltage side must keep at least the i think 6 volts to stay on and shuts off when it drops below that. This way you dont have to use multiple relays as i have seen in other setups. It also prevents the few second it takes for each relay to kick in.
This is just another type of relay so as previously stated YOU NEED A RELAY!
RTM
Eiht on 07/18/2003 16:46:21
Good advice guys but it's already run through a relay. And was working fine a week ago. Not a bad relay either already tested it and replaced it just to be sure. Anymore ideas? I've even bench tested both of my amps on my O-scope and all is well. I don't know, like I said I'm stumped.
Relax_The_Mind on 07/18/2003 17:31:40
Well if a relay was used...(did you happen to miss any other info about the remote wire setup?) The hardwired relay I mentioned earlier might be the best bet for you. Therefore the remote wire would be used just switch on the relay and thats it. The 12v would be coming straight from the battery or battery source.
RTM
Swez on 07/18/2003 18:46:29
Sounds like you know what you are doing here... but the results are perplexing and vexing too huh? Try giving all pertaining details in your next reply so we don't cover old ground you have already looked into. Much appreciated OK.
Like RTM said... that's my read on the matter too... If you know the schematic layout of a relay (Bosche is most common) and this is used properly, the only reason for a lack of power is where the hot/grounds are tapped for power, off the relay. The HU REM feeds the solinoid of the relay, which in turn.... contacts inside allow a full 12 volts + to your REM buss.
Or, you can go direct from a battery tap and lighted switch at dash area, then back to a barrier strip that distributes a 12 volt turn on to all devices in the chain, that should solve this one unless there are other mitigating circumstances yet to be determined. Fuse this line low (3-5A) as you already know.
Also, since you are using a relay now, are you using a larger gage wire to REM the amps too? I would think #16/14 would be more than adequate here. Am sure you did... but wonder if you have a problems in that wire somewhere along the path as all worked fine a week ago right?
A last thought... when you had the HU REM circuits checked out, was there adequate voltage to trigger the relay?
Comments?
Swez
RTM Did I detect a hint of sarcasm in your last reply? No...not you. Only ttocs is allowed to do that on this forum... hehe
Relax_The_Mind on 07/20/2003 01:28:49
Im busted... just a little sorry about that. I was meaning for it to be funny but i guess it did come across that way. ;-)
Ever have one of those long irritating after you do your regular routine you surf to find something to do and find absolutely nothing interesting on the net. Then you check your email like every 10 minutes (as if someone is gonna email you at 4in the morning)
Well I am having one of those nights right now. I wonder if there is an irritating fairy. I mean there is a fairy for just about everything else from plum fairys to tooth fairys. I need an anti-irritating fairy device that i can wear around my neck or something.
well i gotta go check my email again...I might find something interesting.
RTM
hehe
Swez on 07/20/2003 11:00:53
Busted naw... just caught a glint of frustration in your reply and know what is feels like... getting only a poryion of the story and tryin to solve a real puzzler is vexing. I felt it too... but refrained the best I could.
Hey, we're only human...prone to human emotions and maladies. Just had to bring it to your attention as I have great respect for you already AND AM CALLING YOU TO GET PAST THE FRUSTRATION.... and try to deal with the facts (as presented) in a detached and non-emotional responsive way.
Feeling a bit bored or anxious? Well just write Ol Swez and we'll work it out together. That's what team players do for each other.
What are you so anxious (miffed) about?
Swez
swezdp@juno.com if you wish to discuss this privately... it's OK!
tuneless on 03/19/2004 21:09:04
Im having this same problem, but with the yellow or "conststant" power source comming out of my dash. Anything you hear to remedy this problem would be appreciated by me and I ll do the same for you. Thanx
cplkittle on 03/20/2004 08:48:06
just a thought..
Put the relay right behind the head unit, and run the power from the relay to the back.. maybe the remote wire is old or too long, and that is causing the voltage drop.. I dunno. Just something you can try.
Thought #2, use an ACC tap to power the relay.
If all else fails thought... switch it.
Thought #3 ( a few minutes later) Maybe one of your accessories has a bad connection on the relay input and is drawing too much power. Try connecting them one at a time.
swez on 03/22/2004 08:58:17
If this setup worked fine a week ago, then it went down hill... obviously, something has changed. Kit's #3 solution sounds like the best way to trouble shoot the system's REM feed. Look for:
1. Damaged wires feeding the relay
2. Damaged power link out of relay
3. Faulty HU REM circuit (not putting out enough juice to keep the relay in full contact position)
4. Fouled contacts on relay out section of relay
5. Current draw on 1 or more devices in chain has increased. If resistance goes up, the voltage/current will drop in proportion to changes in resistance of entire circuit
Swez
PS Don't feel bad... this is a very unusual situation. You'd have to be very up to date on installs and electronics testing, to track this one down.
ttocs on 03/22/2004 13:01:47
"RTM Did I detect a hint of sarcasm in your last reply? No...not you. Only ttocs is allowed to do that on this forum... hehe "
well then let the sarcasm begin..........
That is a strange symtom. I would hook everything up, and then start disconnecting the remote wires that go to the individual componants. Disconnect each amp and processor at a time and see if everything else comes on. If it doesn't then reconnect it and try another one. My guess is you have a bad componant that is drawing too much current from the remote... Check the fuses on the pieces. Sometimes if the main pwr fuse on the componant blows it will draw pwr from the remote...
swez on 03/22/2004 15:14:11
So... where's the promised sarcasm? You're so good at it ttocks. I may have missed it completely.... GRIN
Swez
ttocs on 03/22/2004 17:28:00
ah swez, that is really not my style ya know?
Now you are all really confused huh?
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