Hi, i have a Honda Prelude 96, and the front and rear speakers are both 6.4" After searching around online i am set out to purchase "alpine sps-170a", becuase of one the price, and two the quality. I told my friend i was looking to purchase them, and he is set to believe that i need an Amplifier, or the speakers wont sound much better than stock. When i was talking to people at frys, they said that i could just clip them in the stock places. Can someone please help me in this dispute?, thanks.
Replies (26)
ttocs on 06/29/2005 16:25:49
upgrading the speakers will help the sound, upgrading the pwr going to them will also help.
Do you have the stock radio in the car?
atomicmonkey15 on 06/29/2005 18:12:31
i have a aftermarket deck, i dont remember which one it is, but it was like 300-400$
swez on 06/29/2005 18:47:35
What's the price per pair on those Alpines? If they are over $150.00 per set, may I suggest CDT's? These are excellent speakers at 2x the price. But they will indeed sound better and cleaner with an amp.
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-CL-61A-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-101083.htm
Can you find out make and model # of the HU in there now? (Aftermarket radio = HU)
Are you considering a sub package along the way as well? If yes, plan ahead for future upgrades. We'll help ya along.
Swez
Desiancav on 06/29/2005 21:12:17
Hey good choice I like Alpine also. The thing about your speakers is If you have the stock cd player you need to find out haw much wattage you are pushing. If you are using an aftermarket cd player it should say somewhere on the cd player faceplate. It should say something like 55x4 or something like that. This means that each speaker is running at 55 watts. I am not sure how many watts the Alpine speakers can handle but if the speakers can handle much more wattage than an amp is the way to go. Just remember to take the RMS wattage and not the peak wattage otherwise you will blow those speakers the first time you turn them up. If you are not to far off the cd players wattage than I would not spend the money on an amp. Also if it is close to matching the cd players wattage and you want a little more quality sound buy a bigger size gauge speaker wire and it will help out alot just in sound quality and loudness. Plus it's only a couple of bucks instead of hundreds on amp, fuses, wires.
ryan2 on 06/29/2005 21:33:06
To clear things up if it says 55x4 on you cd player its talking about 55watts max, which you will probably never see. Most likely you'll get like 20watts rms from your cd player. So yes these speakers will sound better then your factory ones. They will also improve more if you put an amp on them. Yes you can upgrade your size wiring but will you notice better sound quality and loudness no.
atomicmonkey15 on 06/29/2005 21:47:22
Thank you for all the replies
The Deck that I have is also made by Alpine, model # CDA-9811. It says at the top 50 WATTS X 4 Amplifier.
Im not sure if that’s the right thing im looking at, but here is the link so u gods can check it out:
http://www.epinions.com/pr-Car_Stereos_Changers_Alpine_CDA_9811_Radio_CD_MP3_Player_CDA_9811
These are the speakers that I am planning on getting, the Alpine SPS-170A’s.
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=675563&search=alpine+sps-170a
It says Nominal Input Power Rating:40 W, and Maximum Input Power Rating:200 W. Im not sure which one I should be looking at. Because if im supposed to be looking at the Nominal it will fine, if im supposed to be looking at the Miximum it would be too low and I would need an amp.
atomicmonkey15 on 06/29/2005 21:49:34
Oh and im not looking too get any thing to hardcore like subs, becuase ill be getting a new car in 1.5 years.
ryan2 on 06/29/2005 22:05:10
These speakers are 40wrms it looks. So you will be giving them around 20wrms with this HU. You will notice a huge difference by giving them 50wrms with a good amp. This is because one your giving them the power they want and 2nd your giving them a cleaner signal. Im sure theres some more reasons but im not a pro. Im sure one of the golds will pop in to give you more info. As of right now im running my CDT-CL61a off my Alpine deck and they sound better then stock. But once i get a better mounting space for them and electrical upgrade i will be amping them.
atomicmonkey15 on 06/29/2005 22:09:22
by running them without a amp, temprorarily will there be any risk of stuff blowing up?
middleagedcrisis on 06/29/2005 22:51:25
distortion blows spks not power
if your upgrading from dual cones to a 2 or 3 way, even a pair of fifty dollar pioneers - you'll notice a huge difference in sound quality - not volume
check crutchfield for if it fits-
you will have to take the door panels off
no biggie, just take your time
atomicmonkey15 on 06/29/2005 23:11:47
so distortion is directly related to volume right? so basically i will be fine aslong as i dont turn it up to insane amounts? correct?
atomicmonkey15 on 06/30/2005 00:24:55
bump.
middleagedcrisis on 06/30/2005 00:45:50
right, and when you add more clean power, you can turn it up even more, but again - only to a point
Victor on 06/30/2005 02:13:52
Well... Loads of different views out there...
Lets clear up a few things..
1 - Less power will lead to distortion and clipping,
2 - Ideally a Speaker can perform at its best when provided +/- 33% power of its RMS rating ( Nominal power )
ie.. If a speaker is rated at 40wrms then giving it 27wrms to 53wrms will be acceptable.
Now if you are running in the lower level of power ie. in the - 33% then there may stil be some chances of clipping at higher volumes.
So it is advisable to give the speakers enuf power to avoid clipping and let them play free of distortion.
Those are good speakers, If for the time being you want to run them without an amp , it should not be a problem , just take care you dont turn the volume knob too high.
If an amp is used it would defintely sound better, louder, cleaner and also insure the safety of your speakers over a longer period.
The choice would be yours, if you wanna spend somewhere around 125-150$ on the amp it would be great , but if you dont wanna spend it wouldnt be bad either..
Hope that helps..
Incase you do decide for an amp here is a good match from alpine itself and for a good price too..
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_techspecs_full.php/masterid=684850
That is a 50wrms X 4 channel amp, a real nice one from alpine.
Victor...
lessismorespl on 06/30/2005 08:02:16
You will get some distortion if you turn your volume way up, but that is also the case if you use an amp, an amp will give your more clarity, but will still distort sound if not tuned properly and if you run it into clipping.
It is not distortion that blows speakers, it clipping, when speakers are driven w/ a clipped signal, that is what causes damage to the voice coils.
That source unit is 23 wRMS/ channel, the speakers are rated at 40 wRMS, when you figure in the quality of the speaker, as well as the fact that Alpine is pretty accurate and honest w/ their rating, you will not have to worry about blowing speakers.
I have done several tests w/ various coaxial speakers and subwoofers. I started doing these test for 2 reasons:
1. Because of dishonest ratings by manufacturers
2. The rumour/myth that under powering speakers will cause them to blow.
I took a 150 @ 4ohm wRMS Class D amp and ran a SVC 400 wRMS sub, I turned the gain all the way up, as well as drove the amp into the severe clipping range for 30 minutes.....the speaker did not blow, I did the same test @ 2ohms w/ a similar DVC sub.
Coaxial speakers were no different, same test, same severe clipping, however I did find that the lower quality speakers would have cone seperation, as well as the motor structure would sometimes seize, but in mid range to the higher end lines, there were no problems even w/ severe clipping, as long as the amp was 10-20 wRMS lower than the speakers rated wRMS. Basically, you do not have to worry about blowing those speakers w/ that HU even if you drive it at full volume.
If you get a 50x4 amp, it would be a different story, the internal amp of the HU is not going to clip near as bad as an external amp, regardless of how high end the amp is. It is like a Class A/B amp bridged @ 4ohms vs a Class D amp running @ 2ohms, since Class D amps are far more efficient than a Class A/B, it also means that when the amp is drove into clipping, it will clip harder than the Class A/B amp......have done tests w/ this also, just to prove a point.
On a final note, the 9811 is a good deck w/ plenty of sound enhancement features that will allow you clean up the sound, it's rating of 23 wRMS is pretty accurate, so I believe w/ the speakers you have decided on, it will definately give you some better sound, and you will not have to worry about blowing the speakers.
less
swez on 06/30/2005 09:39:59
Ditto... Victor, Ryan2 and Less have given you the full scoop here. Their info is most reliable, based on experience and lots of forum time.
A general guide here:
1. Most HU's rate power at RMS and Peak
2. RMS or "nominal music power are the numbers to focus on
3. Most HU's will remain clean and unclipped up to ~70% of max volume
4. This is assumed, based on minimal bass boost and limited EQ boost as well
The speakers mentioned are rated at 40 watts RMS each. The HU will deliver ~22 watts RMS of clean (unclipped) power. If you are satisfied with performance with HU alone, that's good enough. However, if you want more clean volume, amping them will help a lot. (provided the amp is set up properly)
Here's something to chew on:
22 watts RMS @ 4 ohms = 9.4 volts AC x 4 channels
50 watts RMS @ 4 ohms = 14.1 volts AC x 4 channels
Tell me, which works better...
1. A battery powered drill at 14 volts
2. Same drill, only getting 9.4 volts
The answer is obvious, but the drill will still work at 9.4 volts. But not to its full potential. Same concept with speakers.
Swez
atomicmonkey15 on 07/1/2005 02:01:45
Hey, thanks for all the replies, so... the basic trend throughtout all these posts is basically, the speakers will NOT blow, but they will sound better with an amp. If that is that case, im gonna wait till my speakers come in, and see how they sound. If i feel that i still need better quality sound, i guess ill take it from there. Thanks everyone.
lessismorespl on 07/1/2005 07:27:58
Also, remember that your Alpine has several sound quality settings to clean up the sound as well, if you take some time and learn how these settings work and how to set them, you will definately notice a difference in SQ w/ the aftermarket speakers.
less
atomicmonkey15 on 07/12/2005 15:32:10
guys i have a problem, the speakers wont fit into the stock spots, like the screws dont line up, but the speakers are the right size. somebody help.!!!!!
lessismorespl on 07/12/2005 17:20:15
The holes seldom line up. Get some Dynamat Extreme or something similar(B-quiet Extreme, Fatmat, Elemental Designs eDead, etc...) and line the stock speaker opening, push the magnet of the speaker into it to form it, cutout a enough of it to line the opening well and turn the excess back to line the inside of the opening. Place your speakers against the opening and use some self-tapping zip screws to secure the speakers in. You are basically making your own holes which should work well. The matting will help seal the speakers to give them more response. You could also buy baffles and use them along w/ the matting to make them sound even a tad bit better.
Why am I still here....I'm like an audio superhero or something...see some-one needs help and just jump at the opportunity.....
Anyway, this should help. I seldom use the factory screws or holes, I usually make my own w/ self-tapping screws b/c they hold somewhat better than what the factory uses.
less
Victor on 07/12/2005 17:30:30
hey.. less you got a yahooo, msn or skype messenger account..??
mine is victorginger@yahoo.com
victorexports@hotmail.com and victorginger in Skype..
would like to talk to you about a new idea that just struck me.. IDEA
Victor..
lessismorespl on 07/12/2005 18:33:49
yes, it is lessismorespl on yahoo, and my email is admin@lessismorespl.com
Victor on 07/12/2005 18:35:05
okie.. see ya there..
lessismorespl on 07/12/2005 18:39:14
Hey victor, I'm having some tech problems w/ my yahoo....give me a couple minutes...thankx
less
Victor on 07/12/2005 18:53:09
Hey less.. its ok.. we shall talk later.. I am very tired and need to take some rest..
hope thats fine with you.. bye.
atomicmonkey15 on 07/12/2005 20:08:01
hi, i figured out how to get the speakers in, but i did something wrong and have to take the one i got in out, im too tired to finish this today, so ill do it tmrw and post back.. thanks for the help
Replies (26)
ttocs on 06/29/2005 16:25:49
upgrading the speakers will help the sound, upgrading the pwr going to them will also help.
Do you have the stock radio in the car?
atomicmonkey15 on 06/29/2005 18:12:31
i have a aftermarket deck, i dont remember which one it is, but it was like 300-400$
swez on 06/29/2005 18:47:35
What's the price per pair on those Alpines? If they are over $150.00 per set, may I suggest CDT's? These are excellent speakers at 2x the price. But they will indeed sound better and cleaner with an amp.
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-CL-61A-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-101083.htm
Can you find out make and model # of the HU in there now? (Aftermarket radio = HU)
Are you considering a sub package along the way as well? If yes, plan ahead for future upgrades. We'll help ya along.
Swez
Desiancav on 06/29/2005 21:12:17
Hey good choice I like Alpine also. The thing about your speakers is If you have the stock cd player you need to find out haw much wattage you are pushing. If you are using an aftermarket cd player it should say somewhere on the cd player faceplate. It should say something like 55x4 or something like that. This means that each speaker is running at 55 watts. I am not sure how many watts the Alpine speakers can handle but if the speakers can handle much more wattage than an amp is the way to go. Just remember to take the RMS wattage and not the peak wattage otherwise you will blow those speakers the first time you turn them up. If you are not to far off the cd players wattage than I would not spend the money on an amp. Also if it is close to matching the cd players wattage and you want a little more quality sound buy a bigger size gauge speaker wire and it will help out alot just in sound quality and loudness. Plus it's only a couple of bucks instead of hundreds on amp, fuses, wires.
ryan2 on 06/29/2005 21:33:06
To clear things up if it says 55x4 on you cd player its talking about 55watts max, which you will probably never see. Most likely you'll get like 20watts rms from your cd player. So yes these speakers will sound better then your factory ones. They will also improve more if you put an amp on them. Yes you can upgrade your size wiring but will you notice better sound quality and loudness no.
atomicmonkey15 on 06/29/2005 21:47:22
Thank you for all the replies
The Deck that I have is also made by Alpine, model # CDA-9811. It says at the top 50 WATTS X 4 Amplifier.
Im not sure if that’s the right thing im looking at, but here is the link so u gods can check it out:
http://www.epinions.com/pr-Car_Stereos_Changers_Alpine_CDA_9811_Radio_CD_MP3_Player_CDA_9811
These are the speakers that I am planning on getting, the Alpine SPS-170A’s.
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=675563&search=alpine+sps-170a
It says Nominal Input Power Rating:40 W, and Maximum Input Power Rating:200 W. Im not sure which one I should be looking at. Because if im supposed to be looking at the Nominal it will fine, if im supposed to be looking at the Miximum it would be too low and I would need an amp.
atomicmonkey15 on 06/29/2005 21:49:34
Oh and im not looking too get any thing to hardcore like subs, becuase ill be getting a new car in 1.5 years.
ryan2 on 06/29/2005 22:05:10
These speakers are 40wrms it looks. So you will be giving them around 20wrms with this HU. You will notice a huge difference by giving them 50wrms with a good amp. This is because one your giving them the power they want and 2nd your giving them a cleaner signal. Im sure theres some more reasons but im not a pro. Im sure one of the golds will pop in to give you more info. As of right now im running my CDT-CL61a off my Alpine deck and they sound better then stock. But once i get a better mounting space for them and electrical upgrade i will be amping them.
atomicmonkey15 on 06/29/2005 22:09:22
by running them without a amp, temprorarily will there be any risk of stuff blowing up?
middleagedcrisis on 06/29/2005 22:51:25
distortion blows spks not power
if your upgrading from dual cones to a 2 or 3 way, even a pair of fifty dollar pioneers - you'll notice a huge difference in sound quality - not volume
check crutchfield for if it fits-
you will have to take the door panels off
no biggie, just take your time
atomicmonkey15 on 06/29/2005 23:11:47
so distortion is directly related to volume right? so basically i will be fine aslong as i dont turn it up to insane amounts? correct?
atomicmonkey15 on 06/30/2005 00:24:55
bump.
middleagedcrisis on 06/30/2005 00:45:50
right, and when you add more clean power, you can turn it up even more, but again - only to a point
Victor on 06/30/2005 02:13:52
Well... Loads of different views out there...
Lets clear up a few things..
1 - Less power will lead to distortion and clipping,
2 - Ideally a Speaker can perform at its best when provided +/- 33% power of its RMS rating ( Nominal power )
ie.. If a speaker is rated at 40wrms then giving it 27wrms to 53wrms will be acceptable.
Now if you are running in the lower level of power ie. in the - 33% then there may stil be some chances of clipping at higher volumes.
So it is advisable to give the speakers enuf power to avoid clipping and let them play free of distortion.
Those are good speakers, If for the time being you want to run them without an amp , it should not be a problem , just take care you dont turn the volume knob too high.
If an amp is used it would defintely sound better, louder, cleaner and also insure the safety of your speakers over a longer period.
The choice would be yours, if you wanna spend somewhere around 125-150$ on the amp it would be great , but if you dont wanna spend it wouldnt be bad either..
Hope that helps..
Incase you do decide for an amp here is a good match from alpine itself and for a good price too..
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_techspecs_full.php/masterid=684850
That is a 50wrms X 4 channel amp, a real nice one from alpine.
Victor...
lessismorespl on 06/30/2005 08:02:16
You will get some distortion if you turn your volume way up, but that is also the case if you use an amp, an amp will give your more clarity, but will still distort sound if not tuned properly and if you run it into clipping.
It is not distortion that blows speakers, it clipping, when speakers are driven w/ a clipped signal, that is what causes damage to the voice coils.
That source unit is 23 wRMS/ channel, the speakers are rated at 40 wRMS, when you figure in the quality of the speaker, as well as the fact that Alpine is pretty accurate and honest w/ their rating, you will not have to worry about blowing speakers.
I have done several tests w/ various coaxial speakers and subwoofers. I started doing these test for 2 reasons:
1. Because of dishonest ratings by manufacturers
2. The rumour/myth that under powering speakers will cause them to blow.
I took a 150 @ 4ohm wRMS Class D amp and ran a SVC 400 wRMS sub, I turned the gain all the way up, as well as drove the amp into the severe clipping range for 30 minutes.....the speaker did not blow, I did the same test @ 2ohms w/ a similar DVC sub.
Coaxial speakers were no different, same test, same severe clipping, however I did find that the lower quality speakers would have cone seperation, as well as the motor structure would sometimes seize, but in mid range to the higher end lines, there were no problems even w/ severe clipping, as long as the amp was 10-20 wRMS lower than the speakers rated wRMS. Basically, you do not have to worry about blowing those speakers w/ that HU even if you drive it at full volume.
If you get a 50x4 amp, it would be a different story, the internal amp of the HU is not going to clip near as bad as an external amp, regardless of how high end the amp is. It is like a Class A/B amp bridged @ 4ohms vs a Class D amp running @ 2ohms, since Class D amps are far more efficient than a Class A/B, it also means that when the amp is drove into clipping, it will clip harder than the Class A/B amp......have done tests w/ this also, just to prove a point.
On a final note, the 9811 is a good deck w/ plenty of sound enhancement features that will allow you clean up the sound, it's rating of 23 wRMS is pretty accurate, so I believe w/ the speakers you have decided on, it will definately give you some better sound, and you will not have to worry about blowing the speakers.
less
swez on 06/30/2005 09:39:59
Ditto... Victor, Ryan2 and Less have given you the full scoop here. Their info is most reliable, based on experience and lots of forum time.
A general guide here:
1. Most HU's rate power at RMS and Peak
2. RMS or "nominal music power are the numbers to focus on
3. Most HU's will remain clean and unclipped up to ~70% of max volume
4. This is assumed, based on minimal bass boost and limited EQ boost as well
The speakers mentioned are rated at 40 watts RMS each. The HU will deliver ~22 watts RMS of clean (unclipped) power. If you are satisfied with performance with HU alone, that's good enough. However, if you want more clean volume, amping them will help a lot. (provided the amp is set up properly)
Here's something to chew on:
22 watts RMS @ 4 ohms = 9.4 volts AC x 4 channels
50 watts RMS @ 4 ohms = 14.1 volts AC x 4 channels
Tell me, which works better...
1. A battery powered drill at 14 volts
2. Same drill, only getting 9.4 volts
The answer is obvious, but the drill will still work at 9.4 volts. But not to its full potential. Same concept with speakers.
Swez
atomicmonkey15 on 07/1/2005 02:01:45
Hey, thanks for all the replies, so... the basic trend throughtout all these posts is basically, the speakers will NOT blow, but they will sound better with an amp. If that is that case, im gonna wait till my speakers come in, and see how they sound. If i feel that i still need better quality sound, i guess ill take it from there. Thanks everyone.
lessismorespl on 07/1/2005 07:27:58
Also, remember that your Alpine has several sound quality settings to clean up the sound as well, if you take some time and learn how these settings work and how to set them, you will definately notice a difference in SQ w/ the aftermarket speakers.
less
atomicmonkey15 on 07/12/2005 15:32:10
guys i have a problem, the speakers wont fit into the stock spots, like the screws dont line up, but the speakers are the right size. somebody help.!!!!!
lessismorespl on 07/12/2005 17:20:15
The holes seldom line up. Get some Dynamat Extreme or something similar(B-quiet Extreme, Fatmat, Elemental Designs eDead, etc...) and line the stock speaker opening, push the magnet of the speaker into it to form it, cutout a enough of it to line the opening well and turn the excess back to line the inside of the opening. Place your speakers against the opening and use some self-tapping zip screws to secure the speakers in. You are basically making your own holes which should work well. The matting will help seal the speakers to give them more response. You could also buy baffles and use them along w/ the matting to make them sound even a tad bit better.
Why am I still here....I'm like an audio superhero or something...see some-one needs help and just jump at the opportunity.....
Anyway, this should help. I seldom use the factory screws or holes, I usually make my own w/ self-tapping screws b/c they hold somewhat better than what the factory uses.
less
Victor on 07/12/2005 17:30:30
hey.. less you got a yahooo, msn or skype messenger account..??
mine is victorginger@yahoo.com
victorexports@hotmail.com and victorginger in Skype..
would like to talk to you about a new idea that just struck me.. IDEA
Victor..
lessismorespl on 07/12/2005 18:33:49
yes, it is lessismorespl on yahoo, and my email is admin@lessismorespl.com
Victor on 07/12/2005 18:35:05
okie.. see ya there..
lessismorespl on 07/12/2005 18:39:14
Hey victor, I'm having some tech problems w/ my yahoo....give me a couple minutes...thankx
less
Victor on 07/12/2005 18:53:09
Hey less.. its ok.. we shall talk later.. I am very tired and need to take some rest..
hope thats fine with you.. bye.
atomicmonkey15 on 07/12/2005 20:08:01
hi, i figured out how to get the speakers in, but i did something wrong and have to take the one i got in out, im too tired to finish this today, so ill do it tmrw and post back.. thanks for the help
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