hello all, i am looking to see if any of you have come across an issue with installing a deck and four in this van. the issue is that the radio amplifier gets hot to the touch and after continous use sounds like a wire is grounding out. i have tested the impedence of the speakers the front are high being 4.9 ohms and the backs are 4.5
Replies (22)
treddepth on 06/23/2005 20:48:04
for some reason it shows my own truck when i was asking about a 2001 dodge grand caravan---can i use this medium as a question and answer forum in regards to all my audio ventures or is there a better means with you guys?
treddepth on 06/23/2005 20:49:32
the speakers are typical aftermarket 4.0 ohm speakers and also i have teseted each to see if they were grounding but they were not---thanks in advance for help on this issue
compvr15s on 06/23/2005 20:55:22
is the head unit aftermarket too, or is it factory., if factory may be your problem, not all but some vehicles use 8ohms speakers. not sure if the amps are optimized for 8 ohms or not but it fo this could be a problem
treddepth on 06/23/2005 21:06:54
sounds like the voice coils are getting fried--however the strange thing about this van is that the front speakers have four wires in the oem speakers harness and six in the back--i dont know if this is affecting any thing however because there appears to be no factory amp in the car and the other wires when connected do not allow for any sound what so ever.
treddepth on 06/23/2005 21:09:57
actually its an aftermarket headunit and i ve tried another radio and the amp gets real hot as well---it might just be a spkr going out---but each respective pair fronts and rears measure the same impedence
compvr15s on 06/23/2005 21:45:44
hmmm, you just using two sets of speakes? if so i cant think of any reason this would be happening, if using 2 in the front and 4 in the rear this may cause a problem on the rear channel, 2 ohm load, will cause a head unit to over heat very quick if it even runs at all... i really cant think of anything else, try making a ground other than factory ground, ground the head unit to the chasis somewhere under the dash, use a good spot, make sure to sand the metal and get a good connection..... other than that, you may have to rewire the speakers. if there is an internal amp somewhere this could be a potential problem
treddepth on 06/23/2005 22:18:45
yeah only front and rear spkrs--do you think there could be a problem with voltage and thats causing the amp to overheat?
ttocs on 06/24/2005 09:41:57
infinity system in the van?
treddepth on 06/24/2005 23:13:46
no evidence of an infinity system although the front spkr harness has 4 wires and the rear spkrs had 6 wires----but there wasn't an infinity insignia on the speaker nor on the radio
treddepth on 06/24/2005 23:17:58
the radio just gets hot after 30 minutes doesn't cut but starts sounding like its grounding--Do you know where the factory amp is at by the way?
compvr15s on 06/24/2005 23:53:24
this sounds like an upgraded system, from the factory, i know some mini vans have a 10 speaker system, if this is your case, 4 front speaks, and 6 rear speaks. im lookin on the net for that model, tryin to locate a factory amp or which options were avaliable with that model
compvr15s on 06/24/2005 23:59:30
look at this site, does yours look like this, if so you will have amps, cuz it has a factory sub
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/roadtest/45861/page003.html
if not let me know and ill do some more research, gettin ready to watch coach carter with the ole lady. good luck
treddepth on 06/25/2005 00:00:45
thanks---there are only 4 speakers total in that car although it may have the wiring mimicing the amplified system---by the way could i bother you for the web addresses of the sites you are looking on i have been looking for useful sites myself
treddepth on 06/25/2005 00:13:14
well the system must be a voltage turn on system because i don't even have to hook up the remote for sound----i noticed dash speakers but not the sub and this system has 6*9s all around
treddepth on 06/25/2005 00:13:43
enjoy the show and thanks for the help
ttocs on 06/25/2005 02:20:08
"no evidence of an infinity system although the front spkr harness has 4 wires and the rear spkrs had 6 wires----but there wasn't an infinity insignia on the speaker nor on the radio "
Is there some strange electronics wrapped around the magnet of the speakers also? The extra wires going to the speakers are for the amps that are wrapped around the magnet of each speaker. Does it sound really high piched? The amp only drives the woofer portion of each speaker, the deck drived the tweeter. So if you don't have the amp turn on wired correctly, all you get is tinny noise from the tweeters. If you do have the amp turn on wired to the amp, you are more then likely overdriving that output. The four wires going to the front speakers, two are signal, one is ground, the last is the switched that also supplies the current to the amp. So the amp turn output from the deck is driving 2 amps, and turning 4 on. It is meant to drive a relay, mayber two.
Wire the amp turn on's to the switched output.
treddepth on 06/25/2005 04:51:42
no brother there is nothing wrapped around the speakers as far as shielding goes i think its just wired in the case of having extra speakers added to the system.....
ttocs on 06/25/2005 09:49:07
take one of the speakers out and look again, they are really descrete and easy to miss...
swez on 06/25/2005 21:03:05
When in doubt, run your own speaker wires from HU to speakers. If there is a factory amp in the loop, you have now bypassed it.
The 4 speakers wires to front speakers often indicates a MB/tweeter combo. That is pretty common in factory installs. The six wires to rears do have me scratching my head a bit. It may just be a common harness that some wires are used only with an Infinity Premium setup.
About speaker ohmic readings, a typcial Aftermarket speaker will read a few digits less than 4 ohms on a DC meter. (Battery powered meter) That's normal as speakers are actually changing impedence constantly when the cones move. They change resistance values with frequency. It is also difficult to get accurate ohmic measurements with tweeters/coaxials as they have filters to the tweets which block DC voltages. A DC meter cannot accurately read ohmic values through a blocking capacitor.
HU overheating? There are a few things that can cause this:
1. Low ohmic loads from the speakers (well under 4 ohms nominal)
2. Poor grounding of HU to vehicle
3. Shorted speakers
4. Speaker terminations (+) lead grounding to body or door
5. Inadequate ventilation around the HU
I would look at HU ground first, then speaker shorts or hot lead grounding out to install panel. Also, consider re-wiring all speakers directly off HU speaker harness. That's only 4 pairs of wire. Not much chance of messing up or trying to figure out factory wiring schemes. That too, may solve your HU overheating issues. Use #14-16 gage wires.
Swez
PS If you wish to continue using factory wires, Some detective work with your ohm meter will make this easier. Just remove the speaker harness at HU and short the speaker terminals (one speaker at a time) and probe the speaker harness for "0" ohms. If you find numbers higher than 0.5 ohms on any line pairs, something wrong with that line. More troubleshooting or replace the wiring.
ttocs on 06/26/2005 08:59:20
"When in doubt, run your own speaker wires from HU to speakers. If there is a factory amp in the loop, you have now bypassed it."
except when the amp is on the speaker...
swez on 06/26/2005 09:54:56
True enough ttocs... He mentioned earlier, Aftermarket speakers are now installed:
"the speakers are [typical aftermarket 4.0 ohm speakers] and also i have tested each to see if they were grounding but they were not---thanks in advance for help on this issue "
Seems like a new wiring job is a good option here. Then, he knows he has good wires from HU to speakers.
Swez
ttocs on 06/27/2005 15:22:47
oh
Replies (22)
treddepth on 06/23/2005 20:48:04
for some reason it shows my own truck when i was asking about a 2001 dodge grand caravan---can i use this medium as a question and answer forum in regards to all my audio ventures or is there a better means with you guys?
treddepth on 06/23/2005 20:49:32
the speakers are typical aftermarket 4.0 ohm speakers and also i have teseted each to see if they were grounding but they were not---thanks in advance for help on this issue
compvr15s on 06/23/2005 20:55:22
is the head unit aftermarket too, or is it factory., if factory may be your problem, not all but some vehicles use 8ohms speakers. not sure if the amps are optimized for 8 ohms or not but it fo this could be a problem
treddepth on 06/23/2005 21:06:54
sounds like the voice coils are getting fried--however the strange thing about this van is that the front speakers have four wires in the oem speakers harness and six in the back--i dont know if this is affecting any thing however because there appears to be no factory amp in the car and the other wires when connected do not allow for any sound what so ever.
treddepth on 06/23/2005 21:09:57
actually its an aftermarket headunit and i ve tried another radio and the amp gets real hot as well---it might just be a spkr going out---but each respective pair fronts and rears measure the same impedence
compvr15s on 06/23/2005 21:45:44
hmmm, you just using two sets of speakes? if so i cant think of any reason this would be happening, if using 2 in the front and 4 in the rear this may cause a problem on the rear channel, 2 ohm load, will cause a head unit to over heat very quick if it even runs at all... i really cant think of anything else, try making a ground other than factory ground, ground the head unit to the chasis somewhere under the dash, use a good spot, make sure to sand the metal and get a good connection..... other than that, you may have to rewire the speakers. if there is an internal amp somewhere this could be a potential problem
treddepth on 06/23/2005 22:18:45
yeah only front and rear spkrs--do you think there could be a problem with voltage and thats causing the amp to overheat?
ttocs on 06/24/2005 09:41:57
infinity system in the van?
treddepth on 06/24/2005 23:13:46
no evidence of an infinity system although the front spkr harness has 4 wires and the rear spkrs had 6 wires----but there wasn't an infinity insignia on the speaker nor on the radio
treddepth on 06/24/2005 23:17:58
the radio just gets hot after 30 minutes doesn't cut but starts sounding like its grounding--Do you know where the factory amp is at by the way?
compvr15s on 06/24/2005 23:53:24
this sounds like an upgraded system, from the factory, i know some mini vans have a 10 speaker system, if this is your case, 4 front speaks, and 6 rear speaks. im lookin on the net for that model, tryin to locate a factory amp or which options were avaliable with that model
compvr15s on 06/24/2005 23:59:30
look at this site, does yours look like this, if so you will have amps, cuz it has a factory sub
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/roadtest/45861/page003.html
if not let me know and ill do some more research, gettin ready to watch coach carter with the ole lady. good luck
treddepth on 06/25/2005 00:00:45
thanks---there are only 4 speakers total in that car although it may have the wiring mimicing the amplified system---by the way could i bother you for the web addresses of the sites you are looking on i have been looking for useful sites myself
treddepth on 06/25/2005 00:13:14
well the system must be a voltage turn on system because i don't even have to hook up the remote for sound----i noticed dash speakers but not the sub and this system has 6*9s all around
treddepth on 06/25/2005 00:13:43
enjoy the show and thanks for the help
ttocs on 06/25/2005 02:20:08
"no evidence of an infinity system although the front spkr harness has 4 wires and the rear spkrs had 6 wires----but there wasn't an infinity insignia on the speaker nor on the radio "
Is there some strange electronics wrapped around the magnet of the speakers also? The extra wires going to the speakers are for the amps that are wrapped around the magnet of each speaker. Does it sound really high piched? The amp only drives the woofer portion of each speaker, the deck drived the tweeter. So if you don't have the amp turn on wired correctly, all you get is tinny noise from the tweeters. If you do have the amp turn on wired to the amp, you are more then likely overdriving that output. The four wires going to the front speakers, two are signal, one is ground, the last is the switched that also supplies the current to the amp. So the amp turn output from the deck is driving 2 amps, and turning 4 on. It is meant to drive a relay, mayber two.
Wire the amp turn on's to the switched output.
treddepth on 06/25/2005 04:51:42
no brother there is nothing wrapped around the speakers as far as shielding goes i think its just wired in the case of having extra speakers added to the system.....
ttocs on 06/25/2005 09:49:07
take one of the speakers out and look again, they are really descrete and easy to miss...
swez on 06/25/2005 21:03:05
When in doubt, run your own speaker wires from HU to speakers. If there is a factory amp in the loop, you have now bypassed it.
The 4 speakers wires to front speakers often indicates a MB/tweeter combo. That is pretty common in factory installs. The six wires to rears do have me scratching my head a bit. It may just be a common harness that some wires are used only with an Infinity Premium setup.
About speaker ohmic readings, a typcial Aftermarket speaker will read a few digits less than 4 ohms on a DC meter. (Battery powered meter) That's normal as speakers are actually changing impedence constantly when the cones move. They change resistance values with frequency. It is also difficult to get accurate ohmic measurements with tweeters/coaxials as they have filters to the tweets which block DC voltages. A DC meter cannot accurately read ohmic values through a blocking capacitor.
HU overheating? There are a few things that can cause this:
1. Low ohmic loads from the speakers (well under 4 ohms nominal)
2. Poor grounding of HU to vehicle
3. Shorted speakers
4. Speaker terminations (+) lead grounding to body or door
5. Inadequate ventilation around the HU
I would look at HU ground first, then speaker shorts or hot lead grounding out to install panel. Also, consider re-wiring all speakers directly off HU speaker harness. That's only 4 pairs of wire. Not much chance of messing up or trying to figure out factory wiring schemes. That too, may solve your HU overheating issues. Use #14-16 gage wires.
Swez
PS If you wish to continue using factory wires, Some detective work with your ohm meter will make this easier. Just remove the speaker harness at HU and short the speaker terminals (one speaker at a time) and probe the speaker harness for "0" ohms. If you find numbers higher than 0.5 ohms on any line pairs, something wrong with that line. More troubleshooting or replace the wiring.
ttocs on 06/26/2005 08:59:20
"When in doubt, run your own speaker wires from HU to speakers. If there is a factory amp in the loop, you have now bypassed it."
except when the amp is on the speaker...
swez on 06/26/2005 09:54:56
True enough ttocs... He mentioned earlier, Aftermarket speakers are now installed:
"the speakers are [typical aftermarket 4.0 ohm speakers] and also i have tested each to see if they were grounding but they were not---thanks in advance for help on this issue "
Seems like a new wiring job is a good option here. Then, he knows he has good wires from HU to speakers.
Swez
ttocs on 06/27/2005 15:22:47
oh
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