I have heard mixed things of sound storm an installer said because its a cheaper amp it will not put out the marked 440wrms at 4ohm and others on forums say that sound storm put out more then the marked rms, i have 2 pioneer 15s off it and the installer said it may not handle them that well however i would have thort it would handle it no worrys, whats everyone elses thort on sound storm??
Replies (10)
lessismorespl on 06/19/2005 10:41:33
Ok, could you help us out a little here and give us the model number of the amp, and what series of Pioneer 15's you have.
Sound Storm is a lower end amp, however, it does not mean it will not produce close to it's RMS rating. There are many variables here and giving us the model numbers would help greatly, I think last time I looked, Pioneer/Pioneer Premiere had like 5 or 6 different models of 15" subs. So hit us w/ some more detailed info and I'm sure we can help you out.
swez on 06/19/2005 11:04:43
"how hard do sound storm hit"?
Dunno... they can hit pretty hard or not hard at all. Just depends on who's throwing them at you. GRIN Sorry, couldn't resist that one. Just filling in for Mr. B. I guess.
As Less mentioned, model numbers will help a lot. On the amp, how many fuses are there and what are their ratings?
Swez
15-11-1988 on 06/21/2005 04:34:46
ha ha very funny swez [mind you i was thinking the same thing]
It is a D500.5 and is a class A-B Operation, Can some one please explane what amp classification means, as far as i know it is the efficentcy???
In australia [where i am] pioneer make uo 45% of the market of proformance audio] but as far as i know they only have 1 type of 15inch subs.
That being TS-W384C 700max, 350w rms.
Another question is there any difference in wether cabels are joined just by twisting together and then tape and soldering then tapeing, as the installer said if the 8 guage power cable is not soldered i will not get enough power to it???
swez on 06/21/2005 10:11:40
Class A/B is a full range, (20-20,000 Hz) high fildelity amp. The efficiency ratings vary based on amp designs and power supply. (Typ. 50-60% eff.)
I have not located any details on the D500.5. Did find a 500.4. They state 220 x 4 (rms @ 14.4 volts) Unfortunately, these specs are very vague. This could be 220 Wrms @ 2 ohm/ch. (not stated nor defined) The D500.5 may be unique to non-USA markets? Here are the specs on the 500.4:
http://www.buy.com/retail/techspecs/product.asp?sku=90119589&loc=&PageFormat=8
The cable question, twisted pairs do offer better noise rejection if we are discussing RCA signal lines. Power and speaker wires... no benefit. A #8 gage power line is rated for 50-60A of current. If that is the recommended gage for this amp, would not expect much more than 350-400 Wrms in total output.
Soldering the terminals on both ends of the power wire, will give more strength and a bit better conductivity to the connections. Is it a must? Generally not. Copper wire and connectors do provide very good electrical connections.
That sub is a 15", 4 ohm single coil sub. Rated at 350 Wrms is correct. Is an older model Pioneer sub. It is sealed box only, 2.0 ft^3, per Pioneer data sheet. Fair sub... but it can do a good job at rated power.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/premier/product/specs/0,,2076_168375837_34343,00.html
Swez
PS I could not resist the quip on how hard Storm amps hit. They are pretty low budget, ambigous specs and reliabilty aspects of this line are not well documented by other readers/users on this site.
15-11-1988 on 06/22/2005 07:12:06
To be honest yea it was a cheaper amp, i wanted somthing that would push the subs and for a pionner amp i was looking at 5-6 times the price for a mono block and as far as i could see its not a real lot of difference other than a brand name.
[Keep in mind that i wanted somthing that looked good sounded good for my first car]
440w rms bridged going to 350wrms subs looked pretty good to me. And it is 440wrms at 4 ohm.
The amp on the site you found is the one i have.
And yes the sub specs are right but i dont think it would be any older than a year.
My installer friend said non soldered power cables were a b****h for engine noise wise and the to join them i need to cover them in solder, what do you think of this statement.
swez on 06/22/2005 08:28:38
The amp should do a decent job for your subs when you bridge it down to a 2 channel amp. The main things to get right are:
1. Correct sub enclosure (sealed, 2.0 cf/sub)
2. Low pass filters set to ~80 Hz. for each channel
3. Adequate HU voltage off RCA's to power the amp well
4. Gain match the subs so they are getting the same voltage
Gain matching is a process where we use an AC voltmeter to measure voltages at each sub on a given track with plenty of good bass in it. I would set gains so you get close to ~37.0 volts per sub. That's about 350 Wrms/sub. That's the number you want on loud bass tracks.
As for soldering power wires to prevent engine noise, he may know something quirky about the Holden Gemini that is not common to US made cars. Have never soldered power connections and don't know any negative reasons not too either. Solder is a solid connection point to any connector and wiring. If he likes that method, I don't see a problem.
FYI: Noise from engine is typically a grounding issue between all devices between HU to amp inputs. HU and amp need to have good, bare metal grounds to the floor pan or firewall.
Also, adequate RCA signal levels from the HU to amp are a notable factor in noise reduction. The higher the HU voltage output, the better noise rejection we can anticipate. (2.0 volts or higher is a good reference voltage for most amps today)
The other aspect in keeping noise out of the audio system, is to run power feed lines on one side of the car and RCA signal cables on the other. They do come closest to each other at the amp. Whenever possible, run power and signal lines at 90 degree angles if they must cross each other at the amp. Hope that gives you the details needed to finish the job.
G'day mate,
Swez
15-11-1988 on 06/26/2005 07:45:11
Well i got 3 out of 4
My hu has 2 outputs and the amps have 8 inputs, so i got hu split to 4 then output of amp rca split and then into sub amp. I think thats why i got engine noise its split to many times.
My amps have high level input should i use that for the sub amp or get a noise filter or i could get a high level to low lever converter
The amps were tuned in by the installer so i think they are all good im just to afraid to touch it cos i might screw up the settings
swez on 06/26/2005 09:46:24
Have the right idea... too many splits to multiple inputs = low RCA voltages to each input. That in turn, means amp gain sensitivities have to be set to compensate. Problem is, when we have this low RCA voltage, set the gain higher, we get more noise problems. This is called signal to noise ratios.
There are 3 main ways to manage this:
1. Use a line driver
2. Use high to low converters
3. Use speaker outputs from HU to high input side of each amp
A Line Driver is a preamp device that boosts low RCA HU voltage signals. It also splits the signals to multiple outputs. Some of the newer models even have EQ and mid/high + sub controls. Not sure what is available in your area, but Audiobahn offers several well priced LD/EQ units that work very well. AEQ 6Q is the model number. See them here in the USA for about $60-80.00. (USD) This has nice features and can easily improve your signal voltages to amp + 5 band EQ.
http://www.audiobahninc.com/frame2004.html
High to low converters may work as they tap off HU speaker outs and bring that signal down to RCA level input range. This could be tedious to wire and expensive as well. The better ones have adjustments to dial in the best voltage needs of a given amp. However, since you have dual 4 channel amps here, this idea may not work well either.
Speaker level to amp inputs do work. Some say they are noisy or poor sound quality for mids/highs, but may be adequate for bass.
The real problem here, is a mismatch of minimal HU RCA outs and too many amp inputs to share limited RCA signal sources. If you can swing it later, sell the 4 channel amp for subs and run a Class D MONO amp for them. Figure about 600-800 watts RMS to power them.
Would still be best to use the LD/EQ mentioned earlier. It has a sub channel ouputs and 4 full range outs too. Only needs 2 RCA inputs from HU and nets up to 8 volts RMS (combined) to all amp channels.
Hope that helps... you have a worst case scenario on your hands now.
Swez
trunkisloud on 07/20/2005 15:31:16
i know a guy with 8 soundstorm 15's in an extended cab dodge with 4 kole audio 2000 watt amps....yea it hurt a little but it seems that it shoulda been louder...
lessismorespl on 07/20/2005 20:30:27
ah yes, now we begin to see the meaning of my name. I know a guy that has 8 Solobaric L7 15's in a Yukon. It is all set up nice and everything, but it has only hit 158.6 dB's, you see, too much cancellation. More does not always mean more SPL or SQ, or for that matter loudness.
less
Replies (10)
lessismorespl on 06/19/2005 10:41:33
Ok, could you help us out a little here and give us the model number of the amp, and what series of Pioneer 15's you have.
Sound Storm is a lower end amp, however, it does not mean it will not produce close to it's RMS rating. There are many variables here and giving us the model numbers would help greatly, I think last time I looked, Pioneer/Pioneer Premiere had like 5 or 6 different models of 15" subs. So hit us w/ some more detailed info and I'm sure we can help you out.
swez on 06/19/2005 11:04:43
"how hard do sound storm hit"?
Dunno... they can hit pretty hard or not hard at all. Just depends on who's throwing them at you. GRIN Sorry, couldn't resist that one. Just filling in for Mr. B. I guess.
As Less mentioned, model numbers will help a lot. On the amp, how many fuses are there and what are their ratings?
Swez
15-11-1988 on 06/21/2005 04:34:46
ha ha very funny swez [mind you i was thinking the same thing]
It is a D500.5 and is a class A-B Operation, Can some one please explane what amp classification means, as far as i know it is the efficentcy???
In australia [where i am] pioneer make uo 45% of the market of proformance audio] but as far as i know they only have 1 type of 15inch subs.
That being TS-W384C 700max, 350w rms.
Another question is there any difference in wether cabels are joined just by twisting together and then tape and soldering then tapeing, as the installer said if the 8 guage power cable is not soldered i will not get enough power to it???
swez on 06/21/2005 10:11:40
Class A/B is a full range, (20-20,000 Hz) high fildelity amp. The efficiency ratings vary based on amp designs and power supply. (Typ. 50-60% eff.)
I have not located any details on the D500.5. Did find a 500.4. They state 220 x 4 (rms @ 14.4 volts) Unfortunately, these specs are very vague. This could be 220 Wrms @ 2 ohm/ch. (not stated nor defined) The D500.5 may be unique to non-USA markets? Here are the specs on the 500.4:
http://www.buy.com/retail/techspecs/product.asp?sku=90119589&loc=&PageFormat=8
The cable question, twisted pairs do offer better noise rejection if we are discussing RCA signal lines. Power and speaker wires... no benefit. A #8 gage power line is rated for 50-60A of current. If that is the recommended gage for this amp, would not expect much more than 350-400 Wrms in total output.
Soldering the terminals on both ends of the power wire, will give more strength and a bit better conductivity to the connections. Is it a must? Generally not. Copper wire and connectors do provide very good electrical connections.
That sub is a 15", 4 ohm single coil sub. Rated at 350 Wrms is correct. Is an older model Pioneer sub. It is sealed box only, 2.0 ft^3, per Pioneer data sheet. Fair sub... but it can do a good job at rated power.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/premier/product/specs/0,,2076_168375837_34343,00.html
Swez
PS I could not resist the quip on how hard Storm amps hit. They are pretty low budget, ambigous specs and reliabilty aspects of this line are not well documented by other readers/users on this site.
15-11-1988 on 06/22/2005 07:12:06
To be honest yea it was a cheaper amp, i wanted somthing that would push the subs and for a pionner amp i was looking at 5-6 times the price for a mono block and as far as i could see its not a real lot of difference other than a brand name.
[Keep in mind that i wanted somthing that looked good sounded good for my first car]
440w rms bridged going to 350wrms subs looked pretty good to me. And it is 440wrms at 4 ohm.
The amp on the site you found is the one i have.
And yes the sub specs are right but i dont think it would be any older than a year.
My installer friend said non soldered power cables were a b****h for engine noise wise and the to join them i need to cover them in solder, what do you think of this statement.
swez on 06/22/2005 08:28:38
The amp should do a decent job for your subs when you bridge it down to a 2 channel amp. The main things to get right are:
1. Correct sub enclosure (sealed, 2.0 cf/sub)
2. Low pass filters set to ~80 Hz. for each channel
3. Adequate HU voltage off RCA's to power the amp well
4. Gain match the subs so they are getting the same voltage
Gain matching is a process where we use an AC voltmeter to measure voltages at each sub on a given track with plenty of good bass in it. I would set gains so you get close to ~37.0 volts per sub. That's about 350 Wrms/sub. That's the number you want on loud bass tracks.
As for soldering power wires to prevent engine noise, he may know something quirky about the Holden Gemini that is not common to US made cars. Have never soldered power connections and don't know any negative reasons not too either. Solder is a solid connection point to any connector and wiring. If he likes that method, I don't see a problem.
FYI: Noise from engine is typically a grounding issue between all devices between HU to amp inputs. HU and amp need to have good, bare metal grounds to the floor pan or firewall.
Also, adequate RCA signal levels from the HU to amp are a notable factor in noise reduction. The higher the HU voltage output, the better noise rejection we can anticipate. (2.0 volts or higher is a good reference voltage for most amps today)
The other aspect in keeping noise out of the audio system, is to run power feed lines on one side of the car and RCA signal cables on the other. They do come closest to each other at the amp. Whenever possible, run power and signal lines at 90 degree angles if they must cross each other at the amp. Hope that gives you the details needed to finish the job.
G'day mate,
Swez
15-11-1988 on 06/26/2005 07:45:11
Well i got 3 out of 4
My hu has 2 outputs and the amps have 8 inputs, so i got hu split to 4 then output of amp rca split and then into sub amp. I think thats why i got engine noise its split to many times.
My amps have high level input should i use that for the sub amp or get a noise filter or i could get a high level to low lever converter
The amps were tuned in by the installer so i think they are all good im just to afraid to touch it cos i might screw up the settings
swez on 06/26/2005 09:46:24
Have the right idea... too many splits to multiple inputs = low RCA voltages to each input. That in turn, means amp gain sensitivities have to be set to compensate. Problem is, when we have this low RCA voltage, set the gain higher, we get more noise problems. This is called signal to noise ratios.
There are 3 main ways to manage this:
1. Use a line driver
2. Use high to low converters
3. Use speaker outputs from HU to high input side of each amp
A Line Driver is a preamp device that boosts low RCA HU voltage signals. It also splits the signals to multiple outputs. Some of the newer models even have EQ and mid/high + sub controls. Not sure what is available in your area, but Audiobahn offers several well priced LD/EQ units that work very well. AEQ 6Q is the model number. See them here in the USA for about $60-80.00. (USD) This has nice features and can easily improve your signal voltages to amp + 5 band EQ.
http://www.audiobahninc.com/frame2004.html
High to low converters may work as they tap off HU speaker outs and bring that signal down to RCA level input range. This could be tedious to wire and expensive as well. The better ones have adjustments to dial in the best voltage needs of a given amp. However, since you have dual 4 channel amps here, this idea may not work well either.
Speaker level to amp inputs do work. Some say they are noisy or poor sound quality for mids/highs, but may be adequate for bass.
The real problem here, is a mismatch of minimal HU RCA outs and too many amp inputs to share limited RCA signal sources. If you can swing it later, sell the 4 channel amp for subs and run a Class D MONO amp for them. Figure about 600-800 watts RMS to power them.
Would still be best to use the LD/EQ mentioned earlier. It has a sub channel ouputs and 4 full range outs too. Only needs 2 RCA inputs from HU and nets up to 8 volts RMS (combined) to all amp channels.
Hope that helps... you have a worst case scenario on your hands now.
Swez
trunkisloud on 07/20/2005 15:31:16
i know a guy with 8 soundstorm 15's in an extended cab dodge with 4 kole audio 2000 watt amps....yea it hurt a little but it seems that it shoulda been louder...
lessismorespl on 07/20/2005 20:30:27
ah yes, now we begin to see the meaning of my name. I know a guy that has 8 Solobaric L7 15's in a Yukon. It is all set up nice and everything, but it has only hit 158.6 dB's, you see, too much cancellation. More does not always mean more SPL or SQ, or for that matter loudness.
less
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