I am a total newb, so be patient...just spent $90 on 4-inch JL audio front speakers for a '90 accord ... , they sound worse than the stock speakers! I complained but the dealer says the vehicle comes stock with odd sized speakers, and now the gap of about 1/8 inch is the reason for the poor sound, even though the screw holes line up. Is this reasonable...does it have to be an airtight fit? If so, what do i use to seal or fill this gap? putty? some kind of caulking material?
Replies (13)
swez on 06/17/2005 21:32:17
The best way to remedy this one is to make some adapter plates that fit tightly over the OEM holes and air tight speaker fit. Can use 1/4"
(5" x 5" or 6 x 6) plexiglass if you wish. The proper size hole saw or a coping saw will net nice round holes if you are careful.
Also, the more air tight the door is, the better the speakers will sound. If the metal door is covered with a good moisture sealing membrane material, great... if you have a lot of misc holes in the door, duct tape should seal them up nicely.
If your air leaks are just minor, can use silicone to seal them up. RTV type Silicone can manage a 1/4" gap with ease. If gap is larger, do it in two stages and smooth out with your finger tip. Can accellerate curing time with a fan or hair dryer on low heat setting, high air speed.
Swez
PS Which speaker series did you buy? (model #)
celter on 06/17/2005 21:49:01
thanks for the help!
I bought evolution tr400-cxi
swez on 06/18/2005 10:33:57
You are welcome!
Read this info about air leakage issues from JL's tech pages.
http://www.jlaudio.com/evolution/pdfs/TR400_CXi.pdf
Swez
ttocs on 06/18/2005 17:25:44
Hopefully you understand that it is a 4 inch speaker, and you can only get so much out of them. I have had customers that replace the speakers expecting to get more bass out of them, not gonna happen........
swez on 06/18/2005 21:01:56
Think these will need a pretty high pass filter setting to get the best from them too. The specs say 71 Hz., so may need to experiment with 80-100 Hz range filtering. The higher the filter, the more power they can take w/o overloading the Midbass driver. The tweeter already has a filter on it. It's the MB driver we need to be careful about.
Are you amping these speakers or running them right off the HU?
Swez
celter on 06/19/2005 02:23:09
swez, thanks again! The gap was btwn 1/16 and 1/8 inch all around, so I used silicon sealant as suggested. The improvement has been amazing!
They are running right off the HU, a Sony CDXF5510, 208W.
Thanks also ttocs, I wasn't expecting much from 4-inch, but after sealing the gaps I've gone from being very disapointed to getting more than I ever expected! Now that I'm happy with the fronts....
The rears are 6.5 inch Pioneer ts-a1640, about 10 yrs old i believe. Do you think it would be better to spend a couple of hundred replacing them (how much has the technology improved in 10 yrs?) or spend about the same amount on an amp?
swez on 06/19/2005 11:33:42
A lot has changed in 10 years as far as speaker performance and technology are considered. If they are old paper cone jobs, are probably pretty well worn by now. Add an amp to them now, and they will no doubt shred to pieces.
Consider both... a good pair of rear speakers and a modest amp of say 50 Watts (RMS) per channel. That will perk up your ride a great deal.
Swez
PS Glad the JL's came to life after some minor surgery.
lessismorespl on 06/19/2005 12:22:39
Yes, it is very important to seal speakers properly. I make baffles out of free forming foam which is used in packaging, and then reinforce them w/ sound dampening. I should write a tutoral on it b/c it is not too exspensive and the results are great. Where can I find the time to get all my ideas in motion???? Basically what I do is take a piece of tin, something like tin foil but somewhat stronger, I form it to the back of the speaker and use mylar to cover the front of the speaker, then I spray the form foam over the back of the speaker, an hour or so later spray another coat, then I take it off the speaker remove the tin, and set it into where the speaker goes. This is not like the expanding foam, this stuff does not get hard, it kind of sets to a stiff foam rubber, place some sound dampening in the area the speaker will be set into, then place the homemade baffle over that and set the speaker in, it seals right in. You can also use this stuff when fiberglass kick panels, it hold mat very well and gives a nice sealing effect to the panels.
swez on 06/19/2005 13:57:39
What's the brand name of that spray foam you use for such things? This sounds like a very good idea to make form fitting baffles. Is it a laytex based foam product or more like rubberized sealant?
Got a link to that product?
Swez
lessismorespl on 06/19/2005 21:28:46
This is the stuff I use:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=86153-68-18826&detail=desc&lpage=none
other expanding foams set too hard, which makes them crack and crumble under extreme conditions, also they do not wear well in the cold, I used the expanding foam under my bumper cover to stop the annoying twangy rattle there and my subs turned it to dust in about 3 days, this stuff is latex based and dries to a plyable state, kind of like foam rubber, but more density. I put it in the freezer to test it against cold and after 6 hours it was somewhat harder, but you could still bend it w/out it cracking or breaking. It runs about $4 a can and yu can make 2 sets of baffles out of ea can, depending on size, I used it on 6x8's and 6 3/4's and one can made nice baffles, using 2 coats. Consider most places sell baffles for $9.99 a pair, you are saving yourself a few $'s, plus you are making them to exact speaker size so it fits in better. I did some today using the Elemental Designs sound dampening(eDead) rather than the tin and it worked great, I left the paper on the adhesive back and formed it to the back of the speakers(aluminum side against the magnet), then sprayed the foam onto it, let it set, and sprayed another coat, took the paper off the back and set it right into the opening, it made a perfect air tight fit. Just one of my ideas that people think are crazy, now everyone wants me to make them.
I come up w/ this stuff and people think I'm nuts, 9 years ago I bought a spray-on bed liner kit at going out of business auction, I had 10 gallons of spray-on liner, the application gun, and several different hoses and tips for the gun. I thought why not spray the inside of my trunk and interior to lower the road noise, it worked great, now everyone using some kind of sound dampening.
Same w/ my porting the rear deck, people thought I was insane, but if it is done properly, it works great.
less
swez on 06/20/2005 13:54:10
Pays to think outside the box huh?
Tried that link, but just got the Lowe's Home page. A part number, SKU or brand name might be helpful here. Otherwise, I can search a long time and not locate the product mentioned.
Swez
lessismorespl on 06/20/2005 20:28:33
DAP
Latex Foam Sealant Daptex 12oz.
Item #: 86153 Model: 18826
swez on 06/21/2005 10:19:12
Thanks for the info Less!
Swezhttp://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/premier/product/specs/0,,2076_168375837_34343,00.html
Swez
Replies (13)
swez on 06/17/2005 21:32:17
The best way to remedy this one is to make some adapter plates that fit tightly over the OEM holes and air tight speaker fit. Can use 1/4"
(5" x 5" or 6 x 6) plexiglass if you wish. The proper size hole saw or a coping saw will net nice round holes if you are careful.
Also, the more air tight the door is, the better the speakers will sound. If the metal door is covered with a good moisture sealing membrane material, great... if you have a lot of misc holes in the door, duct tape should seal them up nicely.
If your air leaks are just minor, can use silicone to seal them up. RTV type Silicone can manage a 1/4" gap with ease. If gap is larger, do it in two stages and smooth out with your finger tip. Can accellerate curing time with a fan or hair dryer on low heat setting, high air speed.
Swez
PS Which speaker series did you buy? (model #)
celter on 06/17/2005 21:49:01
thanks for the help!
I bought evolution tr400-cxi
swez on 06/18/2005 10:33:57
You are welcome!
Read this info about air leakage issues from JL's tech pages.
http://www.jlaudio.com/evolution/pdfs/TR400_CXi.pdf
Swez
ttocs on 06/18/2005 17:25:44
Hopefully you understand that it is a 4 inch speaker, and you can only get so much out of them. I have had customers that replace the speakers expecting to get more bass out of them, not gonna happen........
swez on 06/18/2005 21:01:56
Think these will need a pretty high pass filter setting to get the best from them too. The specs say 71 Hz., so may need to experiment with 80-100 Hz range filtering. The higher the filter, the more power they can take w/o overloading the Midbass driver. The tweeter already has a filter on it. It's the MB driver we need to be careful about.
Are you amping these speakers or running them right off the HU?
Swez
celter on 06/19/2005 02:23:09
swez, thanks again! The gap was btwn 1/16 and 1/8 inch all around, so I used silicon sealant as suggested. The improvement has been amazing!
They are running right off the HU, a Sony CDXF5510, 208W.
Thanks also ttocs, I wasn't expecting much from 4-inch, but after sealing the gaps I've gone from being very disapointed to getting more than I ever expected! Now that I'm happy with the fronts....
The rears are 6.5 inch Pioneer ts-a1640, about 10 yrs old i believe. Do you think it would be better to spend a couple of hundred replacing them (how much has the technology improved in 10 yrs?) or spend about the same amount on an amp?
swez on 06/19/2005 11:33:42
A lot has changed in 10 years as far as speaker performance and technology are considered. If they are old paper cone jobs, are probably pretty well worn by now. Add an amp to them now, and they will no doubt shred to pieces.
Consider both... a good pair of rear speakers and a modest amp of say 50 Watts (RMS) per channel. That will perk up your ride a great deal.
Swez
PS Glad the JL's came to life after some minor surgery.
lessismorespl on 06/19/2005 12:22:39
Yes, it is very important to seal speakers properly. I make baffles out of free forming foam which is used in packaging, and then reinforce them w/ sound dampening. I should write a tutoral on it b/c it is not too exspensive and the results are great. Where can I find the time to get all my ideas in motion???? Basically what I do is take a piece of tin, something like tin foil but somewhat stronger, I form it to the back of the speaker and use mylar to cover the front of the speaker, then I spray the form foam over the back of the speaker, an hour or so later spray another coat, then I take it off the speaker remove the tin, and set it into where the speaker goes. This is not like the expanding foam, this stuff does not get hard, it kind of sets to a stiff foam rubber, place some sound dampening in the area the speaker will be set into, then place the homemade baffle over that and set the speaker in, it seals right in. You can also use this stuff when fiberglass kick panels, it hold mat very well and gives a nice sealing effect to the panels.
swez on 06/19/2005 13:57:39
What's the brand name of that spray foam you use for such things? This sounds like a very good idea to make form fitting baffles. Is it a laytex based foam product or more like rubberized sealant?
Got a link to that product?
Swez
lessismorespl on 06/19/2005 21:28:46
This is the stuff I use:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=86153-68-18826&detail=desc&lpage=none
other expanding foams set too hard, which makes them crack and crumble under extreme conditions, also they do not wear well in the cold, I used the expanding foam under my bumper cover to stop the annoying twangy rattle there and my subs turned it to dust in about 3 days, this stuff is latex based and dries to a plyable state, kind of like foam rubber, but more density. I put it in the freezer to test it against cold and after 6 hours it was somewhat harder, but you could still bend it w/out it cracking or breaking. It runs about $4 a can and yu can make 2 sets of baffles out of ea can, depending on size, I used it on 6x8's and 6 3/4's and one can made nice baffles, using 2 coats. Consider most places sell baffles for $9.99 a pair, you are saving yourself a few $'s, plus you are making them to exact speaker size so it fits in better. I did some today using the Elemental Designs sound dampening(eDead) rather than the tin and it worked great, I left the paper on the adhesive back and formed it to the back of the speakers(aluminum side against the magnet), then sprayed the foam onto it, let it set, and sprayed another coat, took the paper off the back and set it right into the opening, it made a perfect air tight fit. Just one of my ideas that people think are crazy, now everyone wants me to make them.
I come up w/ this stuff and people think I'm nuts, 9 years ago I bought a spray-on bed liner kit at going out of business auction, I had 10 gallons of spray-on liner, the application gun, and several different hoses and tips for the gun. I thought why not spray the inside of my trunk and interior to lower the road noise, it worked great, now everyone using some kind of sound dampening.
Same w/ my porting the rear deck, people thought I was insane, but if it is done properly, it works great.
less
swez on 06/20/2005 13:54:10
Pays to think outside the box huh?
Tried that link, but just got the Lowe's Home page. A part number, SKU or brand name might be helpful here. Otherwise, I can search a long time and not locate the product mentioned.
Swez
lessismorespl on 06/20/2005 20:28:33
DAP
Latex Foam Sealant Daptex 12oz.
Item #: 86153 Model: 18826
swez on 06/21/2005 10:19:12
Thanks for the info Less!
Swezhttp://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/premier/product/specs/0,,2076_168375837_34343,00.html
Swez
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