amazingly enough I have decided to see if I can finish/start my truck. I have most of the equipment already or picked out with the exception of the subs. I can handle the installation but am blind on the sales floor. I would like to do 2 - 10" and my amp has max pwr at 2 ohms. I also need a small enclosure as I am gonna try and shoe horn them into a console if they will not look to hideous(downward firing). I like SQ but also enjoy shaking the mirror when the time is right. I can get discounts on alpine and JL, not sure what other brands. Whatcha think?
Replies (17)
lessismorespl on 06/17/2005 20:05:20
Personally, I like my W3's, however, I have compared many subs and really do not see much difference in SQ between the Type R and the W3v2. I guess the one you would feel more comfortable with...honestly, I have hooked both the Type R 12's and I own the W3V2's and did not see no difference. I went w/ JL's b/c I could get a slightly better deal...that was final deciding factor in my choice.
swez on 06/17/2005 21:06:09
The trick here is not so much how many subs to use, but rather, where to gain enough airspace to make 1-2 of them sound good. Might want to take some careful measurments and see what airspace you have available for an enclosure. Once that has been determined, then the matter of what and how many subs to use can be advanced.
The other question to consider, how much clean bass do you want here? That will determine the power amp and sub choices as well. Frankly, in a smaller truck cabin, 300 Wrms and an efficient install should net over 120 dB of SPL and remain clean and solid. A single 10 or 12" Alpine or JL sub will get the job done... if you have enough enclosure space for same.
1. Alpine SWR-1042, 4+4 DVC type R sealed box volume: 0.5-0.8 cf. needed to sound off good deep bass. Can handle up to 500 Wrms.
2. Alpine 12" woofer, SWR-1242D, 500 Wrms, Sealed box volume: 0.65-1.25 cubic feet is range. A 1.0 cf nets plenty of deep bass.
3. JL's 10Wv2 (4+4 DVC) handles 300 Wrms. Sealed enclosure of 0.60-0.90 cu.ft.
4. JL 12Wv2 (4+4 DVC) If you want a 12" sub, bigger enclosure is recommended. (1.0-1.5 cf)
More power desired, look the Wv6 series subs. (400 Rms +) Same enclosure sizes.
Swez
ssallstar598 on 06/17/2005 22:52:33
the subs swez suggested are 4 ohm DVC meaning they can only be ran @ 2 ohms if u only use 1
just throwing that in since u didnt explain wiring swez - not contradicting ya
swez on 06/18/2005 10:26:20
Good catch SS, am assuming this Ranger install will be confined to a single sub. Hense, a 2 ohm load from a 4+4 DVC.
If there is enough space for 2 subs, either a pair of SVC, 4 ohm drivers or a pair of 2+2 DVC's will be needed to get that perfect 2 ohm load.
Finally, a pair of 8's may be an option here too. All depends on the space you have to work with. The JL WO series (4 ohm SVC's) or W3v2's (2+2 DVC's) will work nice in a small package too. They are a bit lower on efficiency ratings, but 300 (WO's) 400 (W3v2's) Wrms to the pair should do it.
Swez
ttocs on 06/18/2005 17:32:22
I am not sure of the enclosure dimensions as I need to replace the 60/40 bench with buckets first. As I said 10's would be a squeeze. If I can't do that I know I can fit a single 10 where one of the jumpseats in the back is.
I have heard JL's 6.5" woofer and been pretty impressed with them. I know they could fit in a consol but I would still need a little more bottom end.
No to concerned with powering the speakers now. I have one of these:
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOOCTANE
I think it should do ok...
Buickman94 on 06/18/2005 18:31:55
I hear RE makes some great 8s.. just a thought
swez on 06/18/2005 20:51:46
Sweet amp... one size and does it all in 3 channels. That looks like a collector's addition item? We can work with that as your main power plant... No Problem here Scott!
Swez
ttocs on 06/20/2005 00:38:02
I am also going to add the clarion spk5 center channel, eventually might get another amp for the rear channels for the dvd sound.
I have been lookin at that amp in the corner of my bedroom for too long now.... It is just so darn big, you cannot just throw it in there.
swez on 06/20/2005 13:22:07
Yeah, it did look like a very large amp in the pic I saw. Can you see a spot under the jump seat for it? Shark did that with a pair of DLS amps on a rack/board and these amps were pretty large too. After a little shaving of the seat brackets, the rack fit beautifully.
Also, heard a JL W7 10" sub the other night in a F150 extended cab. Was powered by an MTX Mono amp... (he was not sure which model), but the bass was tight, deep and the ported box was reasonably compact too. Sounded very good at moderate and high SPL levels too.
The 8 or 10" version may be very useful in a small sealed or ported enclosure for the cubby. Both can deliver solid bass in sealed or ported enclosures. The F3 points are 41.3 and 40.7 Hz respectively.
Note: F3 is the -3dB down point whereby natural bass rolloff is attenuated by the subs' suspension components. Not a bad set of numbers at all.
Swez
PS As you probably know, these are 3 ohm drivers. One driver, 3.0 ohms, dual drivers in parallel are 1.5 ohms. Seems like a single 8" or 10", will definitely do the job. Figure 250-300 W (rms) for the 8"; 400-500 W (rms) for the 10". The other option is a 4+4 DVC for 2 ohms net to amp, using the W3v2 series.
ttocs on 06/20/2005 16:23:35
I have seen the W7 in action and of course it is impressive, I don't know if I have the depth needed, it is a huge speaker. that would sounds sweet though...
The amp with the wire shroud is something like 18" x 33" and it is too pretty to not be seen. I tried one other time to mold it into the rear wall of the truck. It was close but not comming out the way I liked. I think I know what I need to do differently this time and I can probably use the shop if I stay out of the way of their work. I can also pick their minds as they are better at the work I want to do.
ttocs on 06/22/2005 09:18:32
I was looking at the consol space and believe it er not I think I can get a full cube, maybey more for 2 - 10" the way I want. So JL er alpine?
lessismorespl on 06/22/2005 14:55:34
As I said in another thread, I really do not see much difference between the JL W3v2 and the Alpine Type R, my deciding factor was price, I could get the W3's about $100 cheaper than the Type R's. So I would go with whichever ones you can get the best price on. Both come in 2ohm or 4phm DVC, so whichever one is cheaper.
less
swez on 06/22/2005 21:20:14
Ditto... it's a toss up as far as performance goes. Alpine has 2 offerings in the SWR series. One is rated for 300 Wrms, the other is 500 Wrms/sub.
SWR-1021D: 2+2 DVC; 300 Wrms/sub
SWR-1022D: 2+2 DVC; 500 Wrms/sub
JL 10W3v2: 2+2 DVC; 300 Wrms/sub
I believe all listed subs are suitable for small sealed enclosures in the 0.6-0.9 cf range.
Swez
ttocs on 06/25/2005 02:23:37
stopped by the shop for the first time in a while today and said hello. Talked to the owner and he said he thought a 8" w7 would be great in a consol. Seems like a good enough deal and he said he would be glad to let me use the shop as well as help out, when the slowed down. Sounds good as I need time to round up all the gear....
swez on 06/25/2005 08:46:42
That may well do the job in this truck. Small enclosure needed, adequate bass extension on the W7 series and 300-400 Wrms are plenty of power for a single sub.
Note that the W7 is a 3 ohm coil. Can use a Class D amp that is rated to 500 Wrms @ 2 ohms here. That will net out to about 350-400 Wrms @ 3 ohms. (depending on gain settings)
Sealed, the internal airspace target is 0.875 cf (that includes the sub displacement already). The F3 point on this sub is 41.3 Hz. So, should get adequate low bass here. Cabin gain will help that dip as well as some bass EQ-ing. Sounds like a nice, compact setup in all.
Swez
ttocs on 06/25/2005 09:46:07
down firing or facing the back?
swez on 06/25/2005 20:34:27
You are pulling our legs right? SMILE
Down firing can be done well enough in HT systems with reflective surfaces like a wood floor, marble or other firm surfaces. Firing into a pile carpet, lows tend to absorb quickly for a mufffled or muted bass sound. It goes right into the carpet and padding.
Back firing usually makes the most sense if you have an adequate distance between woofer cone and rear panels of the vehicle. Have done some experimentation on up and back firing in a sedan. No contest! Back firing sounded much better and less cone energy is returned back to the woofer cone, which causes cancellations. Would think the closest the cone should be to any opposing surface would be at least the same as woofer diameter. More is even better. Let that sub breath. If there is limited room to the back wall or seats in this truck, angling the sub to fire upward from the back, is definitely a good option.
Have listened to several PU installs and up firing seems to work well, as does cross firing from driver's side to passenger side. You get a nice back massage effect this way too.
Comments?
Swez
Replies (17)
lessismorespl on 06/17/2005 20:05:20
Personally, I like my W3's, however, I have compared many subs and really do not see much difference in SQ between the Type R and the W3v2. I guess the one you would feel more comfortable with...honestly, I have hooked both the Type R 12's and I own the W3V2's and did not see no difference. I went w/ JL's b/c I could get a slightly better deal...that was final deciding factor in my choice.
swez on 06/17/2005 21:06:09
The trick here is not so much how many subs to use, but rather, where to gain enough airspace to make 1-2 of them sound good. Might want to take some careful measurments and see what airspace you have available for an enclosure. Once that has been determined, then the matter of what and how many subs to use can be advanced.
The other question to consider, how much clean bass do you want here? That will determine the power amp and sub choices as well. Frankly, in a smaller truck cabin, 300 Wrms and an efficient install should net over 120 dB of SPL and remain clean and solid. A single 10 or 12" Alpine or JL sub will get the job done... if you have enough enclosure space for same.
1. Alpine SWR-1042, 4+4 DVC type R sealed box volume: 0.5-0.8 cf. needed to sound off good deep bass. Can handle up to 500 Wrms.
2. Alpine 12" woofer, SWR-1242D, 500 Wrms, Sealed box volume: 0.65-1.25 cubic feet is range. A 1.0 cf nets plenty of deep bass.
3. JL's 10Wv2 (4+4 DVC) handles 300 Wrms. Sealed enclosure of 0.60-0.90 cu.ft.
4. JL 12Wv2 (4+4 DVC) If you want a 12" sub, bigger enclosure is recommended. (1.0-1.5 cf)
More power desired, look the Wv6 series subs. (400 Rms +) Same enclosure sizes.
Swez
ssallstar598 on 06/17/2005 22:52:33
the subs swez suggested are 4 ohm DVC meaning they can only be ran @ 2 ohms if u only use 1
just throwing that in since u didnt explain wiring swez - not contradicting ya
swez on 06/18/2005 10:26:20
Good catch SS, am assuming this Ranger install will be confined to a single sub. Hense, a 2 ohm load from a 4+4 DVC.
If there is enough space for 2 subs, either a pair of SVC, 4 ohm drivers or a pair of 2+2 DVC's will be needed to get that perfect 2 ohm load.
Finally, a pair of 8's may be an option here too. All depends on the space you have to work with. The JL WO series (4 ohm SVC's) or W3v2's (2+2 DVC's) will work nice in a small package too. They are a bit lower on efficiency ratings, but 300 (WO's) 400 (W3v2's) Wrms to the pair should do it.
Swez
ttocs on 06/18/2005 17:32:22
I am not sure of the enclosure dimensions as I need to replace the 60/40 bench with buckets first. As I said 10's would be a squeeze. If I can't do that I know I can fit a single 10 where one of the jumpseats in the back is.
I have heard JL's 6.5" woofer and been pretty impressed with them. I know they could fit in a consol but I would still need a little more bottom end.
No to concerned with powering the speakers now. I have one of these:
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOOCTANE
I think it should do ok...
Buickman94 on 06/18/2005 18:31:55
I hear RE makes some great 8s.. just a thought
swez on 06/18/2005 20:51:46
Sweet amp... one size and does it all in 3 channels. That looks like a collector's addition item? We can work with that as your main power plant... No Problem here Scott!
Swez
ttocs on 06/20/2005 00:38:02
I am also going to add the clarion spk5 center channel, eventually might get another amp for the rear channels for the dvd sound.
I have been lookin at that amp in the corner of my bedroom for too long now.... It is just so darn big, you cannot just throw it in there.
swez on 06/20/2005 13:22:07
Yeah, it did look like a very large amp in the pic I saw. Can you see a spot under the jump seat for it? Shark did that with a pair of DLS amps on a rack/board and these amps were pretty large too. After a little shaving of the seat brackets, the rack fit beautifully.
Also, heard a JL W7 10" sub the other night in a F150 extended cab. Was powered by an MTX Mono amp... (he was not sure which model), but the bass was tight, deep and the ported box was reasonably compact too. Sounded very good at moderate and high SPL levels too.
The 8 or 10" version may be very useful in a small sealed or ported enclosure for the cubby. Both can deliver solid bass in sealed or ported enclosures. The F3 points are 41.3 and 40.7 Hz respectively.
Note: F3 is the -3dB down point whereby natural bass rolloff is attenuated by the subs' suspension components. Not a bad set of numbers at all.
Swez
PS As you probably know, these are 3 ohm drivers. One driver, 3.0 ohms, dual drivers in parallel are 1.5 ohms. Seems like a single 8" or 10", will definitely do the job. Figure 250-300 W (rms) for the 8"; 400-500 W (rms) for the 10". The other option is a 4+4 DVC for 2 ohms net to amp, using the W3v2 series.
ttocs on 06/20/2005 16:23:35
I have seen the W7 in action and of course it is impressive, I don't know if I have the depth needed, it is a huge speaker. that would sounds sweet though...
The amp with the wire shroud is something like 18" x 33" and it is too pretty to not be seen. I tried one other time to mold it into the rear wall of the truck. It was close but not comming out the way I liked. I think I know what I need to do differently this time and I can probably use the shop if I stay out of the way of their work. I can also pick their minds as they are better at the work I want to do.
ttocs on 06/22/2005 09:18:32
I was looking at the consol space and believe it er not I think I can get a full cube, maybey more for 2 - 10" the way I want. So JL er alpine?
lessismorespl on 06/22/2005 14:55:34
As I said in another thread, I really do not see much difference between the JL W3v2 and the Alpine Type R, my deciding factor was price, I could get the W3's about $100 cheaper than the Type R's. So I would go with whichever ones you can get the best price on. Both come in 2ohm or 4phm DVC, so whichever one is cheaper.
less
swez on 06/22/2005 21:20:14
Ditto... it's a toss up as far as performance goes. Alpine has 2 offerings in the SWR series. One is rated for 300 Wrms, the other is 500 Wrms/sub.
SWR-1021D: 2+2 DVC; 300 Wrms/sub
SWR-1022D: 2+2 DVC; 500 Wrms/sub
JL 10W3v2: 2+2 DVC; 300 Wrms/sub
I believe all listed subs are suitable for small sealed enclosures in the 0.6-0.9 cf range.
Swez
ttocs on 06/25/2005 02:23:37
stopped by the shop for the first time in a while today and said hello. Talked to the owner and he said he thought a 8" w7 would be great in a consol. Seems like a good enough deal and he said he would be glad to let me use the shop as well as help out, when the slowed down. Sounds good as I need time to round up all the gear....
swez on 06/25/2005 08:46:42
That may well do the job in this truck. Small enclosure needed, adequate bass extension on the W7 series and 300-400 Wrms are plenty of power for a single sub.
Note that the W7 is a 3 ohm coil. Can use a Class D amp that is rated to 500 Wrms @ 2 ohms here. That will net out to about 350-400 Wrms @ 3 ohms. (depending on gain settings)
Sealed, the internal airspace target is 0.875 cf (that includes the sub displacement already). The F3 point on this sub is 41.3 Hz. So, should get adequate low bass here. Cabin gain will help that dip as well as some bass EQ-ing. Sounds like a nice, compact setup in all.
Swez
ttocs on 06/25/2005 09:46:07
down firing or facing the back?
swez on 06/25/2005 20:34:27
You are pulling our legs right? SMILE
Down firing can be done well enough in HT systems with reflective surfaces like a wood floor, marble or other firm surfaces. Firing into a pile carpet, lows tend to absorb quickly for a mufffled or muted bass sound. It goes right into the carpet and padding.
Back firing usually makes the most sense if you have an adequate distance between woofer cone and rear panels of the vehicle. Have done some experimentation on up and back firing in a sedan. No contest! Back firing sounded much better and less cone energy is returned back to the woofer cone, which causes cancellations. Would think the closest the cone should be to any opposing surface would be at least the same as woofer diameter. More is even better. Let that sub breath. If there is limited room to the back wall or seats in this truck, angling the sub to fire upward from the back, is definitely a good option.
Have listened to several PU installs and up firing seems to work well, as does cross firing from driver's side to passenger side. You get a nice back massage effect this way too.
Comments?
Swez
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