i just ordered a Kicker 2500.1 mono amp and a 12 inch Kicker Solo-X sub. these two products were designed to be used together, so it should be nice.
i expect this to be the single loudest 12 that i have heard. i have heard the solo-x 10 and the 18, the 10 was about twice as loud as the JL Audio 10W7, which i previously thought was the loudest sub on the market. the SQ of the kicker can't touch the W7, but the SPL should crush it.
at circuit city we just started carrying kicker so we got the stuff for real cheap, i paid $700 total for all of it. MSRP of the amp is $2499, but it can easily be found for much cheaper than that, but i still got a steal.
sir swez, might i ask what i might be looking at electrical system-wise?? i know i'll have to do some upgrades. it's going in a 1997 VW Jetta. i have an optima yellow-top already, and upgrading the big three is a must. any info on the alternator would be appreciated.
-UK
Replies (7)
MrBrownstone on 06/14/2005 13:06:00
With that class D, only 4 guage cable for the amplifier. If you've already done the big 3 up front, don't worry about additional load to the the alternator...as the amp is so efficient it won't really matter.
2 guage if you are using a 4ch for the other speakers would ensure that you have adequate wire for whatever you need.
Personally, I always think it's better to have 2 woofers than 1 big amp to 1 big speaker when 2 speakers are available. Consider another sub, as the cone area would be more important than the power. 1 15" or 1- 18" sure, but the cone area and enclosure might not yield the monumental results you are looking for--regardless of excursion. You have enough power for a stroker 18...why not have an 18? or equivalent? Know what I mean?
Plan to have 2-12" woofers for best results. Ohio Generator does the alternators for most people who want to upgrade. Unless your stock system is a puss, I wouldn't worry about it for now.
Buickman94 on 06/14/2005 14:52:14
2500 watts RMS doesnt warrent upgrading the alternator at all? I know a lot is based on what he listens to (long bass notes) and the volume, as well as the duration...but if he plans on really cranking it up, and with that setup i would imagine he would, wouldnt a larger alt be a necessity?
MrBrownstone on 06/14/2005 17:20:17
that's like a 1200w class AB in current draw. I've used 2 BD 1000s (RF), 2 Crossfire 1000ds, and about 4 other manufacturers with the same load, and didn't see a problem.
I know the 2500W amp is a hog, but I really wouldn't worry about it unless your call practically stalls while playing. set up the system first, the alternator last.
UKinstaller on 06/15/2005 11:06:40
the amp actually has 1/0 gauge inputs and that's what kicker recommends using. do you think 4 gauge would be okay to use?? and i will definitely be using a 2 channel amp for front speakers.
also, the kicker solo-x 18 is 5000w RMS, the kicker 2500.1 barely moves it at all. i know a guy that has two solo-x 18's in an escalade on 2 2500.1 amps, and, while it is certainly deafening, it isn't nearly as loud as it should be. the subs barely move with only half the recommended power going to them. i can't afford doing 2 2500.1 amps, so i just did the single amp and sub.
-UK
MrBrownstone on 06/15/2005 14:58:57
Amplifier manufacturers make inputs on those amps ridiculously large to impress people's eyes...not for function. 4 guage inputs would carry far more current than a 2500W class D needs. 2 guage is for BOTH amps combined.
It's all going to come down to use. The ENCLOSURE will determine performance more than the upgrade from 4guage to 2 guage, or 1/o on the amplifier. If a guy's 18" woofer isn't moving, perhaps it's an enclosure and wiring problem. Is it wired @ the proper impedance to maximize the amp? If so, blame the box.
We did mid 150s with 2kW in dB drag, and I don't think anyone with a daily driver needs more than that in their car. We did it with Stoker 15s, Audiobahn 05 series 15s, Orion HCCAs, Shocker 15s, and another manufacturer I can't remember.
It's all the enclosure that makes the sub system. There is no substitution for cone area or box design.
Victor on 06/15/2005 17:23:02
Cent percent correct..
I did a whooping 148 , the reason why I call it a whooping 148 is that it was done with just 400wrms going to each of 2 Blau velocity 12" subs.. The only reason.. correct choice of Enclosure, a well designed enclosure. Those subs were enclosed in 2 hornloaded 4th order bandpass enclosures tuned at 47Hz - 200Hz, and the vehicle was heavily sound proofed using layers of sound proofing material so that the least possible pressure could excape the vehicle.
You will have to look into Enclosures in more detail if you wish to reach higher SPL;s.
Victor...
swez on 06/15/2005 18:25:51
I agree w/ Mr. B. on cone area, enclosure efficiencies and using a high efficiency sub, but to power an amp of that magnitude, here's the current draw numbers:
2500 Watts
13.5 volts
Current draw: 2400/13.5 = 185 A. (RMS)
Now, that's one aspect of the equation. However, we can expect a ~10-12% more current demand as Class D's are pretty close to 90% efficient.
That comes out like this:
2500 x 1.1 = 2750/13.5 =204A (input demands)
The aspect Mr. B. is not elaborating on, is related to "Duty Cycle" of the amps' power supply. Duty cycle refers to amount of on time VS off time the power supply within the amp. (PWM power supply) Some amps have a short duty cycle of 20%, while others can exceed 50%.
Wonder if you might contact Kicker Tech and see what they recommend for this specific amp? My guess, they will say 120-130A for this amp (alone) is adequate. Make sure you add more amperes for other amps if used and allow about 60A for car to operate properly too. In short, a 225-250A ALT is not out of the question here.
NOTE: Class D amps are more efficient at power management than typical Class A/B amps under "normal" listening conditions. However, according to Kicker's Amp Manuals, as a Class D approaches full output, its current draw is very similar to Class A/B amps. (pretty high loads on either amp design)
Swez
i expect this to be the single loudest 12 that i have heard. i have heard the solo-x 10 and the 18, the 10 was about twice as loud as the JL Audio 10W7, which i previously thought was the loudest sub on the market. the SQ of the kicker can't touch the W7, but the SPL should crush it.
at circuit city we just started carrying kicker so we got the stuff for real cheap, i paid $700 total for all of it. MSRP of the amp is $2499, but it can easily be found for much cheaper than that, but i still got a steal.
sir swez, might i ask what i might be looking at electrical system-wise?? i know i'll have to do some upgrades. it's going in a 1997 VW Jetta. i have an optima yellow-top already, and upgrading the big three is a must. any info on the alternator would be appreciated.
-UK
Replies (7)
MrBrownstone on 06/14/2005 13:06:00
With that class D, only 4 guage cable for the amplifier. If you've already done the big 3 up front, don't worry about additional load to the the alternator...as the amp is so efficient it won't really matter.
2 guage if you are using a 4ch for the other speakers would ensure that you have adequate wire for whatever you need.
Personally, I always think it's better to have 2 woofers than 1 big amp to 1 big speaker when 2 speakers are available. Consider another sub, as the cone area would be more important than the power. 1 15" or 1- 18" sure, but the cone area and enclosure might not yield the monumental results you are looking for--regardless of excursion. You have enough power for a stroker 18...why not have an 18? or equivalent? Know what I mean?
Plan to have 2-12" woofers for best results. Ohio Generator does the alternators for most people who want to upgrade. Unless your stock system is a puss, I wouldn't worry about it for now.
Buickman94 on 06/14/2005 14:52:14
2500 watts RMS doesnt warrent upgrading the alternator at all? I know a lot is based on what he listens to (long bass notes) and the volume, as well as the duration...but if he plans on really cranking it up, and with that setup i would imagine he would, wouldnt a larger alt be a necessity?
MrBrownstone on 06/14/2005 17:20:17
that's like a 1200w class AB in current draw. I've used 2 BD 1000s (RF), 2 Crossfire 1000ds, and about 4 other manufacturers with the same load, and didn't see a problem.
I know the 2500W amp is a hog, but I really wouldn't worry about it unless your call practically stalls while playing. set up the system first, the alternator last.
UKinstaller on 06/15/2005 11:06:40
the amp actually has 1/0 gauge inputs and that's what kicker recommends using. do you think 4 gauge would be okay to use?? and i will definitely be using a 2 channel amp for front speakers.
also, the kicker solo-x 18 is 5000w RMS, the kicker 2500.1 barely moves it at all. i know a guy that has two solo-x 18's in an escalade on 2 2500.1 amps, and, while it is certainly deafening, it isn't nearly as loud as it should be. the subs barely move with only half the recommended power going to them. i can't afford doing 2 2500.1 amps, so i just did the single amp and sub.
-UK
MrBrownstone on 06/15/2005 14:58:57
Amplifier manufacturers make inputs on those amps ridiculously large to impress people's eyes...not for function. 4 guage inputs would carry far more current than a 2500W class D needs. 2 guage is for BOTH amps combined.
It's all going to come down to use. The ENCLOSURE will determine performance more than the upgrade from 4guage to 2 guage, or 1/o on the amplifier. If a guy's 18" woofer isn't moving, perhaps it's an enclosure and wiring problem. Is it wired @ the proper impedance to maximize the amp? If so, blame the box.
We did mid 150s with 2kW in dB drag, and I don't think anyone with a daily driver needs more than that in their car. We did it with Stoker 15s, Audiobahn 05 series 15s, Orion HCCAs, Shocker 15s, and another manufacturer I can't remember.
It's all the enclosure that makes the sub system. There is no substitution for cone area or box design.
Victor on 06/15/2005 17:23:02
Cent percent correct..
I did a whooping 148 , the reason why I call it a whooping 148 is that it was done with just 400wrms going to each of 2 Blau velocity 12" subs.. The only reason.. correct choice of Enclosure, a well designed enclosure. Those subs were enclosed in 2 hornloaded 4th order bandpass enclosures tuned at 47Hz - 200Hz, and the vehicle was heavily sound proofed using layers of sound proofing material so that the least possible pressure could excape the vehicle.
You will have to look into Enclosures in more detail if you wish to reach higher SPL;s.
Victor...
swez on 06/15/2005 18:25:51
I agree w/ Mr. B. on cone area, enclosure efficiencies and using a high efficiency sub, but to power an amp of that magnitude, here's the current draw numbers:
2500 Watts
13.5 volts
Current draw: 2400/13.5 = 185 A. (RMS)
Now, that's one aspect of the equation. However, we can expect a ~10-12% more current demand as Class D's are pretty close to 90% efficient.
That comes out like this:
2500 x 1.1 = 2750/13.5 =204A (input demands)
The aspect Mr. B. is not elaborating on, is related to "Duty Cycle" of the amps' power supply. Duty cycle refers to amount of on time VS off time the power supply within the amp. (PWM power supply) Some amps have a short duty cycle of 20%, while others can exceed 50%.
Wonder if you might contact Kicker Tech and see what they recommend for this specific amp? My guess, they will say 120-130A for this amp (alone) is adequate. Make sure you add more amperes for other amps if used and allow about 60A for car to operate properly too. In short, a 225-250A ALT is not out of the question here.
NOTE: Class D amps are more efficient at power management than typical Class A/B amps under "normal" listening conditions. However, according to Kicker's Amp Manuals, as a Class D approaches full output, its current draw is very similar to Class A/B amps. (pretty high loads on either amp design)
Swez
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