Well i walked out to my car today (04 Cavalier LS Sport Coupe) and my drivers side back window was smashed out. They ripped the dash apart and took my Alpine 9833 out. So I need a new window, dash kit, maybe a new wiring harness, dash, cd player, and car charger. Luckily its all under insurance. This happened to me 2 years ago but they just took my sub and amp.
Replies (13)
ttocs on 06/10/2005 13:31:43
and an alarm..............
sorry dude. I have been lucky enough to avoid theives, but I always started with the alarm....
ryan2 on 06/10/2005 13:55:20
well after the first time i got an alarm then no problems. but since i got my new car I havent had it installed. I was waiting until i put my subs and amp in. But the car had a factory alarm that worked if the door was opened after it was locked with the keyless entry. But i might of lost that when i took out the factory cd player
cplkittle on 06/10/2005 16:46:01
I don't think the factory radio controlled the alarm also. I would highly recommend that you use the proper integration piece even though they are around $150 for the new chevy/GM vehicles. The peripherial piece I use integrates seamlessly with the factory equiptment ( they use oem delphi chips) even with Bose and OnStar models.
lessismorespl on 06/10/2005 20:01:39
I have to agree w/ "TT", an alarm is the first step in any car audio system. Unfortunately, most factory alarms are made for the sole purpose of disabling the starter so the vehicle cannot be stolen, as for breaking windows or anything like that, they are worthless. My Satrun was like that, I had 2 subs, an amp, a HU, and a line driver stolen at different times out of that car, even after a couple cheap alarms.
Now I stick to quality alarms w/ all the bells and whistles, it does not have to be Viper, I have used a few other car alarms that are just as good and have many of the same features as Viper for less money. I went w/ Viper this time b/c I could not beat the deal.....trunk sensor, glass sensor, 2-way pager, and an extra siren were all thrown in on deal for free, I paid $275, and it included keyless entry. I incorperated an old factory amp from a Grand Am into the sirens, my Audio Control dB meter is not the most accurate(Epic-150), but it reads 132 dB's at the dash.
swez on 06/10/2005 21:27:52
132dB at the dash from a siren under the hood? That should pretty much wake the dead from 100 meters!
Good advice on factory installed alarms VS aftermarket systems. Funny thing too... the factory alarm does much less, but costs a lot more. Why is that? Same with factory installed audio gear. Again, why is that?
Start Rant: Sure cannot be the quality of factory units... nor the number of units made. (cost efficiencies due to economy of scale) I would guess that car makers build hundreds of thousands of alarm systems per year. A typical aftermarket maker will make what 20% of that? Ohhhh, I get it now... it's the labor factor. UAW workers average about $350.00 a day in gross pay and benefits. (8 hour shift whereby 5.5 hours of real work is done... on a productive day)
A medium to large mfg., in Taiwan, Mexico or Korea can get the same job done at under $80.00/shift/worker. Most of the manufacturing is automated in both cases. What's that all about?
I should have ignored my Dad's ideas and worked for Ford, GM or Chrysler. Could retire in 5 years, made a ton of money and great benefits too. A few of my friends did that, as did my step-dad. Not a bad lifetime income if we don't mind checking our brains at the door and tuning out all the BS gossip. End Rant!
Swez
ttocs on 06/11/2005 02:26:19
alot of alarms are actually, and literally, thrown in at the dealer. They use T=taps and it is all about speed. I have peaked under dashes to see the wiring and been able to disable the alarm in a few seconds.
Get a good alarm and a good installer.
lessismorespl on 06/11/2005 07:24:05
What the dealerships do are buy several of those cheap alarms, the ones you can buy from Walmart for like $40. Then they have the maintenance shop throw them in. They do the same w/ cars they purchase from auctions and trade in that had no radio, they come to the shop a few times a week and buy those $35 Rampage CD players. It is all about the mark up. They install a $40 alarm, a $35 CD player and mark the car up $1K. In most cases the guys at the dealership know squat about installing alarms or stereos, so it is like "TT" said, they are just thrown in. I have personally been able to disable one of those cheap alarms in less than 60 seconds, and been able to get the CD player out by just sliding it out of the dash, so in less than 90 seconds I have disabled your alarm and stolen your radio.
less
P.S. Get a good alarm. They make several different alarms in various price ranges from $149.99-$499.99 which have everything from keyless entry and remote start to 2-way pagers that have a range of 2500 ft. It is worth the extra money IMHO.
Victor on 06/11/2005 07:42:43
Wow.. lessismore.. Lemme thow a business proposal to u..Why dont you come to India, We can easily make a lot of money by stealing equipments cause back here even the best alarm is one of the worst available there..hehe
We can share 30%-70% with the greater part being yours..lol..
GRIN..
You can be looking at making more than a 5000$ a month.. hehehehehehe
Victor..
i must say you pass all the qualifying test of being a car audio thief..hehehehehehehehehe..
ok.. jokes apart.. but seriously the quality of alarms available in the indian market is really really bad, anyone and i mean anyone can break through them easily, leave apart an expert.
ryan2 on 06/11/2005 22:54:00
Well i have an aftermarket Viper that i took out of my old car (basic) but i want going to put it in until i was ready to put my subs in. The factory alarm on my car only goes off after you open a door, then after long warning chirps it goes off. Well come to find out from the dealer thats fixing my car they did pop my hood and cut the wires under there to turn it off. So now im going to look into a 2 way pager to see if it vibrates or beeps loud enough to wake me up. and go with and extra bat. and high pitch siren.
I also realized that they stole my glasses as well.
lessismorespl on 06/12/2005 07:24:12
That would not have happened w/ a good aftermarket alarm, it would have set it off when they popped the hood. The 2-way pagers are loud, if a cell phone wakes you up, the 2-way pager will b/c it is slightly louder than the ring tone on a cell phone. The extra battery, or even upgrading to a good deep cycle battery helps also.
Victor,
I have never been a thief.... Being a good installer, I can tell the difference between a pro-thief, and an amatuer thief.
Here are a few suggestions to prevent, or at least make it difficult for thieves:
Try to use hex screws when installing your dash kit and secure the HU's basket securely to the kit, not just a couple at the top and bottom, also, use the screw holes on the HU and screw the basket securely to your HU. Use as many screws as possible to secure the kit, if possible, even use the factory brackets.
For amps, I try to mount my amps on boards, so I look for places in my trunk where I can screw the boards down right through and use the teflon lock nuts to secure the boards down from underneath, then I also use the teflon lock nuts to secure the amp to the board. In most cases, too much work for even a pro.
For subwoofers, I use 3/4 MDF, and since I'm very big on detail and aiming, I find the right spot for my subs and screw thru the enclosure into a piece of MDF I cut to fit where the factory places that cheap fiber board they use to cover the spare well. Most likely the thief can get it out, but he would look kind of obvious walkinmg down the road trying to carry a sub enclosure attached a 3' X 4 3/4' piece of 3/4 MDF, not to mention the weight, probably somewhere around 70-90 lbs.
There are many tricks and I have seen some great ideas in my years of car audio installation. This may be a good subject for a new topic, I'm sure other installers have some good ideas.
less
ryan2 on 06/13/2005 14:46:25
Im looking into some 2 way pager alarms. My local dealer has some they are Astro and DEI Python. I can get the Astro installed for $425 and the Python for $390. He said the only difference is that the astro has a longer range. Are these good prices and is the Astro any good since ive never heard of that brand?
Also i had this dealer install my old DEI alarm and i was the one that took it out of my car. How should the wires be connected?
To connect the wires they took part of the instalation off the factory wire and put the wire for the alarm in the middle of the strands of wire that they just exposed and twisted the alarm wire around it.
I assume theres a better method.
ryan2 on 06/13/2005 20:19:17
bump
lessismorespl on 06/13/2005 20:36:55
I'm not familar w/ the Astro, I do know the Python is made by DEI, the same manufacturer that makes Viper, Valet, Prestige, etc...$390 is a fair price for an alarm w/ 2-way pager, provided it has the motion, glass, and trunk sensors, as well as keyless entry.
It sounds to me as though they did not take there time in installing the alarm, that seems like a quick fix for a few extra bucks, so most likely you are no better than before. Look over the instalation and maybe even go to another shop to get an opinion from them. In most cases you can talk to an installer and he will not be biased, most certified installers will be willing to give you an honest opinion....I know I do, even if the shop manger gets mad at me......I could care less about being fired b/c I have been doing this so long any other shop would hire me in a hot second....
less
Replies (13)
ttocs on 06/10/2005 13:31:43
and an alarm..............
sorry dude. I have been lucky enough to avoid theives, but I always started with the alarm....
ryan2 on 06/10/2005 13:55:20
well after the first time i got an alarm then no problems. but since i got my new car I havent had it installed. I was waiting until i put my subs and amp in. But the car had a factory alarm that worked if the door was opened after it was locked with the keyless entry. But i might of lost that when i took out the factory cd player
cplkittle on 06/10/2005 16:46:01
I don't think the factory radio controlled the alarm also. I would highly recommend that you use the proper integration piece even though they are around $150 for the new chevy/GM vehicles. The peripherial piece I use integrates seamlessly with the factory equiptment ( they use oem delphi chips) even with Bose and OnStar models.
lessismorespl on 06/10/2005 20:01:39
I have to agree w/ "TT", an alarm is the first step in any car audio system. Unfortunately, most factory alarms are made for the sole purpose of disabling the starter so the vehicle cannot be stolen, as for breaking windows or anything like that, they are worthless. My Satrun was like that, I had 2 subs, an amp, a HU, and a line driver stolen at different times out of that car, even after a couple cheap alarms.
Now I stick to quality alarms w/ all the bells and whistles, it does not have to be Viper, I have used a few other car alarms that are just as good and have many of the same features as Viper for less money. I went w/ Viper this time b/c I could not beat the deal.....trunk sensor, glass sensor, 2-way pager, and an extra siren were all thrown in on deal for free, I paid $275, and it included keyless entry. I incorperated an old factory amp from a Grand Am into the sirens, my Audio Control dB meter is not the most accurate(Epic-150), but it reads 132 dB's at the dash.
swez on 06/10/2005 21:27:52
132dB at the dash from a siren under the hood? That should pretty much wake the dead from 100 meters!
Good advice on factory installed alarms VS aftermarket systems. Funny thing too... the factory alarm does much less, but costs a lot more. Why is that? Same with factory installed audio gear. Again, why is that?
Start Rant: Sure cannot be the quality of factory units... nor the number of units made. (cost efficiencies due to economy of scale) I would guess that car makers build hundreds of thousands of alarm systems per year. A typical aftermarket maker will make what 20% of that? Ohhhh, I get it now... it's the labor factor. UAW workers average about $350.00 a day in gross pay and benefits. (8 hour shift whereby 5.5 hours of real work is done... on a productive day)
A medium to large mfg., in Taiwan, Mexico or Korea can get the same job done at under $80.00/shift/worker. Most of the manufacturing is automated in both cases. What's that all about?
I should have ignored my Dad's ideas and worked for Ford, GM or Chrysler. Could retire in 5 years, made a ton of money and great benefits too. A few of my friends did that, as did my step-dad. Not a bad lifetime income if we don't mind checking our brains at the door and tuning out all the BS gossip. End Rant!
Swez
ttocs on 06/11/2005 02:26:19
alot of alarms are actually, and literally, thrown in at the dealer. They use T=taps and it is all about speed. I have peaked under dashes to see the wiring and been able to disable the alarm in a few seconds.
Get a good alarm and a good installer.
lessismorespl on 06/11/2005 07:24:05
What the dealerships do are buy several of those cheap alarms, the ones you can buy from Walmart for like $40. Then they have the maintenance shop throw them in. They do the same w/ cars they purchase from auctions and trade in that had no radio, they come to the shop a few times a week and buy those $35 Rampage CD players. It is all about the mark up. They install a $40 alarm, a $35 CD player and mark the car up $1K. In most cases the guys at the dealership know squat about installing alarms or stereos, so it is like "TT" said, they are just thrown in. I have personally been able to disable one of those cheap alarms in less than 60 seconds, and been able to get the CD player out by just sliding it out of the dash, so in less than 90 seconds I have disabled your alarm and stolen your radio.
less
P.S. Get a good alarm. They make several different alarms in various price ranges from $149.99-$499.99 which have everything from keyless entry and remote start to 2-way pagers that have a range of 2500 ft. It is worth the extra money IMHO.
Victor on 06/11/2005 07:42:43
Wow.. lessismore.. Lemme thow a business proposal to u..Why dont you come to India, We can easily make a lot of money by stealing equipments cause back here even the best alarm is one of the worst available there..hehe
We can share 30%-70% with the greater part being yours..lol..
GRIN..
You can be looking at making more than a 5000$ a month.. hehehehehehe
Victor..
i must say you pass all the qualifying test of being a car audio thief..hehehehehehehehehe..
ok.. jokes apart.. but seriously the quality of alarms available in the indian market is really really bad, anyone and i mean anyone can break through them easily, leave apart an expert.
ryan2 on 06/11/2005 22:54:00
Well i have an aftermarket Viper that i took out of my old car (basic) but i want going to put it in until i was ready to put my subs in. The factory alarm on my car only goes off after you open a door, then after long warning chirps it goes off. Well come to find out from the dealer thats fixing my car they did pop my hood and cut the wires under there to turn it off. So now im going to look into a 2 way pager to see if it vibrates or beeps loud enough to wake me up. and go with and extra bat. and high pitch siren.
I also realized that they stole my glasses as well.
lessismorespl on 06/12/2005 07:24:12
That would not have happened w/ a good aftermarket alarm, it would have set it off when they popped the hood. The 2-way pagers are loud, if a cell phone wakes you up, the 2-way pager will b/c it is slightly louder than the ring tone on a cell phone. The extra battery, or even upgrading to a good deep cycle battery helps also.
Victor,
I have never been a thief.... Being a good installer, I can tell the difference between a pro-thief, and an amatuer thief.
Here are a few suggestions to prevent, or at least make it difficult for thieves:
Try to use hex screws when installing your dash kit and secure the HU's basket securely to the kit, not just a couple at the top and bottom, also, use the screw holes on the HU and screw the basket securely to your HU. Use as many screws as possible to secure the kit, if possible, even use the factory brackets.
For amps, I try to mount my amps on boards, so I look for places in my trunk where I can screw the boards down right through and use the teflon lock nuts to secure the boards down from underneath, then I also use the teflon lock nuts to secure the amp to the board. In most cases, too much work for even a pro.
For subwoofers, I use 3/4 MDF, and since I'm very big on detail and aiming, I find the right spot for my subs and screw thru the enclosure into a piece of MDF I cut to fit where the factory places that cheap fiber board they use to cover the spare well. Most likely the thief can get it out, but he would look kind of obvious walkinmg down the road trying to carry a sub enclosure attached a 3' X 4 3/4' piece of 3/4 MDF, not to mention the weight, probably somewhere around 70-90 lbs.
There are many tricks and I have seen some great ideas in my years of car audio installation. This may be a good subject for a new topic, I'm sure other installers have some good ideas.
less
ryan2 on 06/13/2005 14:46:25
Im looking into some 2 way pager alarms. My local dealer has some they are Astro and DEI Python. I can get the Astro installed for $425 and the Python for $390. He said the only difference is that the astro has a longer range. Are these good prices and is the Astro any good since ive never heard of that brand?
Also i had this dealer install my old DEI alarm and i was the one that took it out of my car. How should the wires be connected?
To connect the wires they took part of the instalation off the factory wire and put the wire for the alarm in the middle of the strands of wire that they just exposed and twisted the alarm wire around it.
I assume theres a better method.
ryan2 on 06/13/2005 20:19:17
bump
lessismorespl on 06/13/2005 20:36:55
I'm not familar w/ the Astro, I do know the Python is made by DEI, the same manufacturer that makes Viper, Valet, Prestige, etc...$390 is a fair price for an alarm w/ 2-way pager, provided it has the motion, glass, and trunk sensors, as well as keyless entry.
It sounds to me as though they did not take there time in installing the alarm, that seems like a quick fix for a few extra bucks, so most likely you are no better than before. Look over the instalation and maybe even go to another shop to get an opinion from them. In most cases you can talk to an installer and he will not be biased, most certified installers will be willing to give you an honest opinion....I know I do, even if the shop manger gets mad at me......I could care less about being fired b/c I have been doing this so long any other shop would hire me in a hot second....
less
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