Alright Im back again. Im just having weird problems with my friends Infinity system. Out of all the systems i've installed this is the only one i've had problems with. 1) Voice coil seperated from spider and tinsel slap Fixed.
Now tonight i had im take out his subs and take out the polyfill and put padding on the back of the cone to get rid of the tinsel slap. So after he did that he wanted my to listen to it.
Well It was fine and everything was working so we started to head home and im like just your 6x9s are on so pull in the parking lot. We get out and the amp is off. No protection lights or anything, so we go to my house to get the multimeter.
The fuse under the hood for the power wire is fine. Fuses on amp are fine. Remote wire gets 12 volts at amp and we have a good ground. Also the amp isnt hot to the touch.
So i tell him that i'll look at it tomorrow and i'll talk to you guys. Well have way home the amp turns on and everything plays fine.
So what could of caused this? Are there any more test i can use to check if it happens again? Also when it the amp was off should the power wire have any power at the battery or amp? Thanks
Replies (10)
UKinstaller on 06/10/2005 01:45:22
what did the power wire read at the amp?? this may sound crazy, but i can't count how many times i've looked at a fuse under a hood that looks fine, but needs replacement anyway. try swapping out the fuse with a new one and see what happens.
-UK
anonymous_a on 06/10/2005 02:22:53
I'm actully having that same problem and what is it for me is where the amp's ground wire meets the car chassis it is loose therefore every time you hit a bump or something the amp cuts off until you hit another bump and knocks it back into place, and the amp turns back on. Play around with the ground wire and see if that works.
ssallstar598 on 06/10/2005 04:30:46
maybe clean your battery terminal... thats what was wrong w/ my buddys car
also... what is tinsel slap? is it that sound you hear when the sub hits and makes a popping noise?
swez on 06/10/2005 11:41:59
Tinsel lead slap is when the lead in wires to coil hit the back of the cone at high excursion. Common problem in high excursion subs, especially in ported enclosures. Have to insert padding felts along the path of the leads to dampen that effect.
Another common noise we hear from subs is a loud "Brappp" sound when over excursion is present. This is usually due to excess bass boost, too large an enclosure for the sub used or improper SSF filtering on ported sub boxes.
If amp comes on, then goes off w/o warning, look for the following conditions:
1. Solid wire connections and fuse on power feed and ground lines
2. Meter voltage at amp (B+ to ground) under severe loads
3. What is the impedence load the sub(s) are wired for?
4. Does the amp get hot before it shuts down?
Item 1, is pretty self-evident. You'll know if ground and power leads are tight and passing power properly with a DC volt meter.
Item 2, turn on lights, AC and such and dial up the power on the HU while measuring DC volts to sub amp. If the voltage drops below ~11 volts after a few minutes, this can cause the amp to shut off long enough to bring the supply voltage back up to 12 volts DC or higher. Inadequate ALT/BAT voltage/current from the vehicle. Cannot keep up with amp power demands.
Items 3 & 4, if the impedence load drops below amps' rated ohmic load value, the amp sense unstable load conditions and turns off. A 4 ohm sub can drop below 2.5 ohms at certain frequencies. This causes the amp to draw too much power and heats up, shuts off to cool. If running a 1 - 2 ohm load to the amp, the sub impedences can drop well below that value at certain frequencies. This will cause the amp to shut off as well, to protect itself.
What amp & sub(s) here? Seems like you said Infinity subs before... not sure on amp though. Say more pls.
Swez
PS Annon, get your ground fixed ASAP. When amp loses main ground, it will search for an alternate ground path. Usually via RCA grounds to HU. Bad news here dude as RCA lines are not that heavy to carry much current and can wipe out (fry) your RCA's and maybe the HU too. Take care of that Pronto bud.
ryan2 on 06/10/2005 13:14:19
The 2 10" Infinity Kappa Perfects are each wired in parallel. The amp is an Infinity 610a. He has a new battery so nothing is corrodid. But the battery has top and side mounts. All factory wiring is hooked to the side mounts and the amp power wire is connected to the top mount. WHen i checked for voltage at battery on power wire i didnt get anything, that was the same for at the amp too.
The fuse is fine since the amp turned back on for whatever reason and the amp wasnt hot at all when i touched it.
cplkittle on 06/10/2005 16:40:54
check the connections on either side of the fuse holder. I have seen some of the cheaper fuse holders (especially the glass fuses) not make good contact with the fuse, so a voltmeter would read 12v, but when a load is present, it loses connection.
lessismorespl on 06/10/2005 20:38:36
Definately check your fuses, especially if you are using AGU(glass) fuses. This sounds strange, but when I replaced my distribution block w/ the Streetwires Dist block, my amps kept going out, the fuses never blew, and all the contacts were solid and secure. I asked around on another forum, yes, even us old guys can use some advice now & then, well I was told by an audio tech that the Streetwies fuses are just a few thousandths bigger in Diameter and in length and that the Streetwire Dist Block, although made to accept any AGU fuse, is set to the specifics of the Streetwire fuses. I re[laced the fuses w/ Streetwire fuses and have never had a problem. AGU fuses can also go bad w/out looking blown, they heat up inside and come disconnected from the internal contacts. It is always a good idea to keep a few AGU's laying around just in case...especially if you are using AGU fuses on your main power wire @ the battery.
less
swez on 06/10/2005 21:09:20
Interesting comment you made: " WHen i checked for voltage at battery on power wire i didnt get anything, that was the same for at the amp too."
No power at battery posts is how I read that. Is that what you said? There should be a solid 12 volts + at the battery terminals, even if the power feed wire is not connected. If this is the case, the BAT has a problem internally at the posts.
Should always have a DC voltage present there and at side posts, load or no load. Please confirm that test. Use a sharp tipped set of probes to bite right into the lead posts. Some posts use a chemical emulsion to seal the posts from moisture which often leads to corrosion. That can give a false or no readings result.
In short, if you do not get a voltage reading between Positive & Ground posts on any BAT, something is wrong. No way to get power back to the amp(s) if there is no power at the terminals of the BAT.
Swez
ryan2 on 08/14/2005 20:40:29
Ok i guys its happened a couple of times now but has always started back up before i can check but finally its been off for a day.
-The remote wire snapped (very stretching coating from -knukonceptz) so i fixed that and still doesnt work.
-Its receiving 12v at the cd player and to the amp.
-Top post are reading 12v.
- i think its the fuse since when connected tightly the fuse holder on the amp side only gets like 1 v. But it doesnt look blown so i think it heated up. So where going to get a fuse tomorrow and i'll let u guys know.
swez on 08/15/2005 09:52:10
Need to check the voltage at the amp here. If the amp is not getting sufficient power, it will not turn on properly or have greatly reduced power output for the subs. When the engine is off, you should see 12.0 - 12.5 volts DC between ground and power lugs on the amp. If not, the problem is upstream like the fuse holder or poor power lead connections to the battery. The other thing that can cause this, is a poor ground to body at the amp.
Swez
Now tonight i had im take out his subs and take out the polyfill and put padding on the back of the cone to get rid of the tinsel slap. So after he did that he wanted my to listen to it.
Well It was fine and everything was working so we started to head home and im like just your 6x9s are on so pull in the parking lot. We get out and the amp is off. No protection lights or anything, so we go to my house to get the multimeter.
The fuse under the hood for the power wire is fine. Fuses on amp are fine. Remote wire gets 12 volts at amp and we have a good ground. Also the amp isnt hot to the touch.
So i tell him that i'll look at it tomorrow and i'll talk to you guys. Well have way home the amp turns on and everything plays fine.
So what could of caused this? Are there any more test i can use to check if it happens again? Also when it the amp was off should the power wire have any power at the battery or amp? Thanks
Replies (10)
UKinstaller on 06/10/2005 01:45:22
what did the power wire read at the amp?? this may sound crazy, but i can't count how many times i've looked at a fuse under a hood that looks fine, but needs replacement anyway. try swapping out the fuse with a new one and see what happens.
-UK
anonymous_a on 06/10/2005 02:22:53
I'm actully having that same problem and what is it for me is where the amp's ground wire meets the car chassis it is loose therefore every time you hit a bump or something the amp cuts off until you hit another bump and knocks it back into place, and the amp turns back on. Play around with the ground wire and see if that works.
ssallstar598 on 06/10/2005 04:30:46
maybe clean your battery terminal... thats what was wrong w/ my buddys car
also... what is tinsel slap? is it that sound you hear when the sub hits and makes a popping noise?
swez on 06/10/2005 11:41:59
Tinsel lead slap is when the lead in wires to coil hit the back of the cone at high excursion. Common problem in high excursion subs, especially in ported enclosures. Have to insert padding felts along the path of the leads to dampen that effect.
Another common noise we hear from subs is a loud "Brappp" sound when over excursion is present. This is usually due to excess bass boost, too large an enclosure for the sub used or improper SSF filtering on ported sub boxes.
If amp comes on, then goes off w/o warning, look for the following conditions:
1. Solid wire connections and fuse on power feed and ground lines
2. Meter voltage at amp (B+ to ground) under severe loads
3. What is the impedence load the sub(s) are wired for?
4. Does the amp get hot before it shuts down?
Item 1, is pretty self-evident. You'll know if ground and power leads are tight and passing power properly with a DC volt meter.
Item 2, turn on lights, AC and such and dial up the power on the HU while measuring DC volts to sub amp. If the voltage drops below ~11 volts after a few minutes, this can cause the amp to shut off long enough to bring the supply voltage back up to 12 volts DC or higher. Inadequate ALT/BAT voltage/current from the vehicle. Cannot keep up with amp power demands.
Items 3 & 4, if the impedence load drops below amps' rated ohmic load value, the amp sense unstable load conditions and turns off. A 4 ohm sub can drop below 2.5 ohms at certain frequencies. This causes the amp to draw too much power and heats up, shuts off to cool. If running a 1 - 2 ohm load to the amp, the sub impedences can drop well below that value at certain frequencies. This will cause the amp to shut off as well, to protect itself.
What amp & sub(s) here? Seems like you said Infinity subs before... not sure on amp though. Say more pls.
Swez
PS Annon, get your ground fixed ASAP. When amp loses main ground, it will search for an alternate ground path. Usually via RCA grounds to HU. Bad news here dude as RCA lines are not that heavy to carry much current and can wipe out (fry) your RCA's and maybe the HU too. Take care of that Pronto bud.
ryan2 on 06/10/2005 13:14:19
The 2 10" Infinity Kappa Perfects are each wired in parallel. The amp is an Infinity 610a. He has a new battery so nothing is corrodid. But the battery has top and side mounts. All factory wiring is hooked to the side mounts and the amp power wire is connected to the top mount. WHen i checked for voltage at battery on power wire i didnt get anything, that was the same for at the amp too.
The fuse is fine since the amp turned back on for whatever reason and the amp wasnt hot at all when i touched it.
cplkittle on 06/10/2005 16:40:54
check the connections on either side of the fuse holder. I have seen some of the cheaper fuse holders (especially the glass fuses) not make good contact with the fuse, so a voltmeter would read 12v, but when a load is present, it loses connection.
lessismorespl on 06/10/2005 20:38:36
Definately check your fuses, especially if you are using AGU(glass) fuses. This sounds strange, but when I replaced my distribution block w/ the Streetwires Dist block, my amps kept going out, the fuses never blew, and all the contacts were solid and secure. I asked around on another forum, yes, even us old guys can use some advice now & then, well I was told by an audio tech that the Streetwies fuses are just a few thousandths bigger in Diameter and in length and that the Streetwire Dist Block, although made to accept any AGU fuse, is set to the specifics of the Streetwire fuses. I re[laced the fuses w/ Streetwire fuses and have never had a problem. AGU fuses can also go bad w/out looking blown, they heat up inside and come disconnected from the internal contacts. It is always a good idea to keep a few AGU's laying around just in case...especially if you are using AGU fuses on your main power wire @ the battery.
less
swez on 06/10/2005 21:09:20
Interesting comment you made: " WHen i checked for voltage at battery on power wire i didnt get anything, that was the same for at the amp too."
No power at battery posts is how I read that. Is that what you said? There should be a solid 12 volts + at the battery terminals, even if the power feed wire is not connected. If this is the case, the BAT has a problem internally at the posts.
Should always have a DC voltage present there and at side posts, load or no load. Please confirm that test. Use a sharp tipped set of probes to bite right into the lead posts. Some posts use a chemical emulsion to seal the posts from moisture which often leads to corrosion. That can give a false or no readings result.
In short, if you do not get a voltage reading between Positive & Ground posts on any BAT, something is wrong. No way to get power back to the amp(s) if there is no power at the terminals of the BAT.
Swez
ryan2 on 08/14/2005 20:40:29
Ok i guys its happened a couple of times now but has always started back up before i can check but finally its been off for a day.
-The remote wire snapped (very stretching coating from -knukonceptz) so i fixed that and still doesnt work.
-Its receiving 12v at the cd player and to the amp.
-Top post are reading 12v.
- i think its the fuse since when connected tightly the fuse holder on the amp side only gets like 1 v. But it doesnt look blown so i think it heated up. So where going to get a fuse tomorrow and i'll let u guys know.
swez on 08/15/2005 09:52:10
Need to check the voltage at the amp here. If the amp is not getting sufficient power, it will not turn on properly or have greatly reduced power output for the subs. When the engine is off, you should see 12.0 - 12.5 volts DC between ground and power lugs on the amp. If not, the problem is upstream like the fuse holder or poor power lead connections to the battery. The other thing that can cause this, is a poor ground to body at the amp.
Swez
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