Hi!
I have 2 12" PG Titanium seris 750wRMS each. Hooked up to a JBL 1200.1 monoblock. Recently repaired internal power supply, failed, blew out all the fuses and had to be sent back to the factory.
Just got it back, installed everything.
4awg power cable with a 100amp switch
4awg ground cable secure and taught
I have good ground and good power connections, nothing seems to be connected wrong from the amp to the deck. I double checked everything. I checked for cuts in the remote wire, rca's, a grounding out problem behind the deck. Everything seems good.
I replaced the ground wire, speaker cables, everything.
So the problem is protect mode. I have the green and red light coming on everytime I boot the amp up. So somewhere I have something mixed up.
I am absolutly positive it's not a ground, power, or remote, or rca problem here I've thorughly checked everything.
So I'm running out of places to check. The subwoofers are connected.
I have the subwoofers connect 2 ohm DVC
I have Positive to Negitive looped on the sub. and Positive to positive and negitive to negitive going out to the box on both subwoofers to achieve 2 ohm operation.
I have every wire secure tight.
Any suggestions?
I tried playing with the ground, I tried switiching cables out, I tried new RCA's, everything I could think of. Including taking the boost and voltage down.
What should I try next?
the only other thing I can think of is the Bat/Alt doesn't have enough power to support the amplifier to turn on all the way.
1992 Volvo 940GL 100amp alt with a 800CCA battery. I know, I know way way way underpowered for the amp.
I suggested using 150amp alt but the cars going to break down and blow up soon anyways.
is this the problem? or what?
thanks
Replies (10)
lessismorespl on 06/7/2005 12:13:08
If you have DVC subs wired in parallel, as you say, making ea sub a 2ohm sub, you are putting a 1ohm impedance on the amp, even though JBL states the amps are 1ohm stable, they often shut down on 1ohm, several amps claim 1ohm stability, but still go into protect. IMO the amps that claim 1ohm stability can handle 1ohm, but only for short periods of time. There are a few amps that are true 1ohm, and there are amps that are just 1ohm stable. Many may argue there is no difference, but in my experiences, there is a big difference.
Kicker
The new MTX super amps
Diamond Audio
Phoenix Gold Xeon's
higher end Audiobahn
most of these are true 1ohm
My guess is that the amp is going into protect b/c of the 1ohm impedance.
less
ssallstar598 on 06/7/2005 12:54:25
try wiring it @ 4 ohms and see what happens, i have a JBL 600.1 and it SAYS its stable at 1 ohm but it has the EXACT same problem yours is doing to you right now
swez on 06/8/2005 11:21:16
Agreed, sounds like the sub load to the amp is 1 ohm and can go potentially lower with certain frequencies. This is probably the root of the amp problems.
Suggest what ssallstar and Less mentioned:
1. Get a 1 ohm stable amp OR
2. Rewire the subs to amp for a 4 ohm load
Swez
ssallstar598 on 06/8/2005 18:10:38
i have seen some of the PG titaniums and ive seen them wang out @ 300-400 watts apiece so if you wire it at 4 ohms they should still move and hit hard
it all depends on the size of the box.... the smaller the box the less power needed (but you cant go TOOOOO small or it will make the sub sound bad...)
i personally run a 15 inch adire audio tempest in a 3 or 4 cubic foot ported box tuned to 35 hz (cant remember if its 3 or 4...) and its a 750 rms sub and i give it 300 watts from my JBL 600.1 and it reaches full excursion and sounds REALLY good
compvr15s on 06/9/2005 16:58:05
ssallstar, you say
"it all depends on the size of the box.... the smaller the box the less power needed (but you cant go TOOOOO small or it will make the sub sound bad...)"
the smaller the enclosure the more power the sub can handle, if the sub 350watts rms, and calls for a 1.25 cubic inch box. if you place the sub in abox that size it will handle the 350 well, but if you bump upto 2^ft then the sub is going to require less power to reach full potential, and if you go ported then you can risk the chance of over excursion tryin to feed it that much power..... im not sure if you said smaller takes less and thought you put larger...
Munchiesyumm on 06/11/2005 20:42:29
okay..
well we have a mis understanding. I do not have the subwoofers wired to 1ohm. I have them wired to 2 ohm.
just a little over view - to - and + to + on both subs would make a 1ohm load. However I am doing - to + on sub#1 and - to + on sub #2 and + out to amp and - out to amp.
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_wiring.html?subs=2&impedance=DVC2x2
Option #2 is the wiring diagram I used.
So I should try a 4ohm load? I don't see why this amp can't handle a 2ohm load. Thats retarded if this is the case.
I guess I'll make the 4ohm and see if it goes out of protect mode.
swez on 06/11/2005 21:04:40
Hummm, are these the 4+4 DVC's you have now? If wired as noted in the Crutch diagram #2, you have a 1 ohm load. The PG website mentioned a 4 ohm SVC and a 4+4 DVC coils on the Ti series. They do not show a DVC version, 2+2 DVC.
http://www.phoenixgold.com/2004/titaniumspeakers.html
In this case, your best option is to wire the sub for a 4 ohm load to amp. Each sub is wired for 8 ohms (series) and then parallel to amp. That nets a 4 ohm load. Hopefully, the amp will come out of protect once the speaker wires are disconnected at the amp. If not, got a problem in the amp. Look here:
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_wiring.html?subs=2&impedance=DVC4x2
You have used diagram #1 now. Use diagram #2 for wiring a 4 ohm load.
Swez
Munchiesyumm on 06/12/2005 13:03:17
No sorry Swez,
You're misunderstanding me again. It was already hooked up with Digram #2 ("option 2") not digram #1.
I have it wired exsactly the way it shows in the diagram.
btw these are TI15D subwoofers in a 1.75cf sealed box.
thats why it's got me in circles because I know exsactly what I'm doing but the amplifier is in protect mode for some odd reason.
I've already had to send the amp in to get repaired once. The powersupply melted and blew up all the fuses.
swez on 06/12/2005 13:59:16
Munchies,
I am very confused here???
The link noted above is a 2+2 DVC coil system wiring diagram.
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_wiring.html?subs=2&impedance=DVC2x2 (2+2 DVC; 2 ohm net load)
Also, the beginning of the thread said:
"2 12" PG Titanium series" I assumed this was the subs used. Now, we are saying Ti15d's?
The PG web site has a pdf on Ti15D subs. It only says Re is 1.75 ohms. (nominal is 2 ohms here) But what the site does not say, is this Re per coil or both coils in parallel. (I would assume 2 ohms per coil here) Might want to verify that with PG Techs.
ftp://208.187.38.55/Phoenix_Gold/Manuals/Speakers/Titanium/titanium_15_sub_manual.pdf
Well, if the subs are 2+2's and you have them wired for 2 ohms or higher, the only possible issue left is the amp is still not fixed proprly. Can you try the amp on a known good sub at 2 or 4 ohms load and see if the amp still goes into protect mode? If it does, the amp is still not right.
Can also determine the actual sub wiring resistance is correct with a decent multimeter. If the meter reads the subs about 1.75 ohms, (DC measurement) they are wired right. Got a meter handy?
Swez
ssallstar598 on 06/13/2005 16:32:11
compvrs.....
yes thats what i meant.....
i seriously need to sleep more than 3 hours a night....
I have 2 12" PG Titanium seris 750wRMS each. Hooked up to a JBL 1200.1 monoblock. Recently repaired internal power supply, failed, blew out all the fuses and had to be sent back to the factory.
Just got it back, installed everything.
4awg power cable with a 100amp switch
4awg ground cable secure and taught
I have good ground and good power connections, nothing seems to be connected wrong from the amp to the deck. I double checked everything. I checked for cuts in the remote wire, rca's, a grounding out problem behind the deck. Everything seems good.
I replaced the ground wire, speaker cables, everything.
So the problem is protect mode. I have the green and red light coming on everytime I boot the amp up. So somewhere I have something mixed up.
I am absolutly positive it's not a ground, power, or remote, or rca problem here I've thorughly checked everything.
So I'm running out of places to check. The subwoofers are connected.
I have the subwoofers connect 2 ohm DVC
I have Positive to Negitive looped on the sub. and Positive to positive and negitive to negitive going out to the box on both subwoofers to achieve 2 ohm operation.
I have every wire secure tight.
Any suggestions?
I tried playing with the ground, I tried switiching cables out, I tried new RCA's, everything I could think of. Including taking the boost and voltage down.
What should I try next?
the only other thing I can think of is the Bat/Alt doesn't have enough power to support the amplifier to turn on all the way.
1992 Volvo 940GL 100amp alt with a 800CCA battery. I know, I know way way way underpowered for the amp.
I suggested using 150amp alt but the cars going to break down and blow up soon anyways.
is this the problem? or what?
thanks
Replies (10)
lessismorespl on 06/7/2005 12:13:08
If you have DVC subs wired in parallel, as you say, making ea sub a 2ohm sub, you are putting a 1ohm impedance on the amp, even though JBL states the amps are 1ohm stable, they often shut down on 1ohm, several amps claim 1ohm stability, but still go into protect. IMO the amps that claim 1ohm stability can handle 1ohm, but only for short periods of time. There are a few amps that are true 1ohm, and there are amps that are just 1ohm stable. Many may argue there is no difference, but in my experiences, there is a big difference.
Kicker
The new MTX super amps
Diamond Audio
Phoenix Gold Xeon's
higher end Audiobahn
most of these are true 1ohm
My guess is that the amp is going into protect b/c of the 1ohm impedance.
less
ssallstar598 on 06/7/2005 12:54:25
try wiring it @ 4 ohms and see what happens, i have a JBL 600.1 and it SAYS its stable at 1 ohm but it has the EXACT same problem yours is doing to you right now
swez on 06/8/2005 11:21:16
Agreed, sounds like the sub load to the amp is 1 ohm and can go potentially lower with certain frequencies. This is probably the root of the amp problems.
Suggest what ssallstar and Less mentioned:
1. Get a 1 ohm stable amp OR
2. Rewire the subs to amp for a 4 ohm load
Swez
ssallstar598 on 06/8/2005 18:10:38
i have seen some of the PG titaniums and ive seen them wang out @ 300-400 watts apiece so if you wire it at 4 ohms they should still move and hit hard
it all depends on the size of the box.... the smaller the box the less power needed (but you cant go TOOOOO small or it will make the sub sound bad...)
i personally run a 15 inch adire audio tempest in a 3 or 4 cubic foot ported box tuned to 35 hz (cant remember if its 3 or 4...) and its a 750 rms sub and i give it 300 watts from my JBL 600.1 and it reaches full excursion and sounds REALLY good
compvr15s on 06/9/2005 16:58:05
ssallstar, you say
"it all depends on the size of the box.... the smaller the box the less power needed (but you cant go TOOOOO small or it will make the sub sound bad...)"
the smaller the enclosure the more power the sub can handle, if the sub 350watts rms, and calls for a 1.25 cubic inch box. if you place the sub in abox that size it will handle the 350 well, but if you bump upto 2^ft then the sub is going to require less power to reach full potential, and if you go ported then you can risk the chance of over excursion tryin to feed it that much power..... im not sure if you said smaller takes less and thought you put larger...
Munchiesyumm on 06/11/2005 20:42:29
okay..
well we have a mis understanding. I do not have the subwoofers wired to 1ohm. I have them wired to 2 ohm.
just a little over view - to - and + to + on both subs would make a 1ohm load. However I am doing - to + on sub#1 and - to + on sub #2 and + out to amp and - out to amp.
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_wiring.html?subs=2&impedance=DVC2x2
Option #2 is the wiring diagram I used.
So I should try a 4ohm load? I don't see why this amp can't handle a 2ohm load. Thats retarded if this is the case.
I guess I'll make the 4ohm and see if it goes out of protect mode.
swez on 06/11/2005 21:04:40
Hummm, are these the 4+4 DVC's you have now? If wired as noted in the Crutch diagram #2, you have a 1 ohm load. The PG website mentioned a 4 ohm SVC and a 4+4 DVC coils on the Ti series. They do not show a DVC version, 2+2 DVC.
http://www.phoenixgold.com/2004/titaniumspeakers.html
In this case, your best option is to wire the sub for a 4 ohm load to amp. Each sub is wired for 8 ohms (series) and then parallel to amp. That nets a 4 ohm load. Hopefully, the amp will come out of protect once the speaker wires are disconnected at the amp. If not, got a problem in the amp. Look here:
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_wiring.html?subs=2&impedance=DVC4x2
You have used diagram #1 now. Use diagram #2 for wiring a 4 ohm load.
Swez
Munchiesyumm on 06/12/2005 13:03:17
No sorry Swez,
You're misunderstanding me again. It was already hooked up with Digram #2 ("option 2") not digram #1.
I have it wired exsactly the way it shows in the diagram.
btw these are TI15D subwoofers in a 1.75cf sealed box.
thats why it's got me in circles because I know exsactly what I'm doing but the amplifier is in protect mode for some odd reason.
I've already had to send the amp in to get repaired once. The powersupply melted and blew up all the fuses.
swez on 06/12/2005 13:59:16
Munchies,
I am very confused here???
The link noted above is a 2+2 DVC coil system wiring diagram.
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_wiring.html?subs=2&impedance=DVC2x2 (2+2 DVC; 2 ohm net load)
Also, the beginning of the thread said:
"2 12" PG Titanium series" I assumed this was the subs used. Now, we are saying Ti15d's?
The PG web site has a pdf on Ti15D subs. It only says Re is 1.75 ohms. (nominal is 2 ohms here) But what the site does not say, is this Re per coil or both coils in parallel. (I would assume 2 ohms per coil here) Might want to verify that with PG Techs.
ftp://208.187.38.55/Phoenix_Gold/Manuals/Speakers/Titanium/titanium_15_sub_manual.pdf
Well, if the subs are 2+2's and you have them wired for 2 ohms or higher, the only possible issue left is the amp is still not fixed proprly. Can you try the amp on a known good sub at 2 or 4 ohms load and see if the amp still goes into protect mode? If it does, the amp is still not right.
Can also determine the actual sub wiring resistance is correct with a decent multimeter. If the meter reads the subs about 1.75 ohms, (DC measurement) they are wired right. Got a meter handy?
Swez
ssallstar598 on 06/13/2005 16:32:11
compvrs.....
yes thats what i meant.....
i seriously need to sleep more than 3 hours a night....
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