Subject: 500 employees
A band of thieves, liars, manipulators and moochers
Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:
29 have been accused of spousal abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
19 have been accused of writing bad checks
117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
3 have done time for assault
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year
Can you guess which organization this is?
Give up yet? Wanna hire a few of these folks for your organization? They are high profile people ya know... but pretty normal personal lives.
It's the 535 members of the United States Congress.
The same group of Idiots that crank out hundreds of laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line.
Swez THINK
Replies (24)
gearhead on 05/27/2005 08:23:51
Yet they keep getting reelected. Go figure. Fortunately, or unfortunately, in a democracy, we get the government that we
deserve-the government we elect.
swez on 05/27/2005 09:25:12
Not just that... how about the Supreme Court??? They are not elected by the public vote. Are appointed for life, until they retire or die in office. These "Elites" are not just interpreting the law any more. (as was designed in our Constitution) They are now making laws from the bench.
This is scary stuff guys. My generation has enough laws and legal matters to contend with. The Gen X & Y folks are really going to have many new problems to face as this process gets more steam.
Who are our elected officials? Most are Lawyers! Would be nice to see their resume's and background files, before they get elected. Just like most jobs today, many companies screen candidates for all sorts of information and background checks before they are even considered to be hired. Wouldn't that be a fair thing to do with elected officials and candidates who are planning to run for office?
True, many do a fine job looking out for their respective states and jurisdictions. However, charisma, good looks and a sharp resume are not enough. Once a new face comes into the game, it takes a few years of hammering and chisling them to fit the political mold.
Personally, I would never vote for Ted Kennedy in any public office. (maybe a dog catcher position) but hope he gets a few good bites along the way as he sure likes to bite others... heheh
Political satirely yours,
Swez
01gtpony on 05/27/2005 09:58:43
Hello Guys
I live here in Erie, PA. Our previous mayor is under legal scrutiny because of some shady land deals. They are trying to build a horserace track at a closed paper mill site. He and his relatives / business partners happed by chance to buy a lot of the surrounding property. Just by chance of course.
Well anyway there were a lot of people campaigning for him in the election. Sometimes I wonder where people’s heads are.
Ron
gearhead on 05/27/2005 11:04:19
The SC is appointed by those that we elect though. We keep reelecting officials that vote themselves unconsionable raises and benefits. You hear a lot about term limits. Term limits are already in place, and have been from the start. It's called VOTING. Too many people are only concerned about their own little corner of the U.S.. They will keep reelecting officials, questionable/illegal behavior notwithstanding, as long as those officials "bring home the bacon", regardless of the ramifications for the rest of the country.
MrBrownstone on 05/27/2005 12:00:10
As long as there's a buck to be made in public service, there'll be slime in office.
Democrats and Republicans are not different in any way. $$$ talks, and as long as they get it, they will do what the almight dollar elects them to do. Take away the campaign money, and you get altruistic candidates. Til then, you'll always get who the 'party' anoints their winner.
Think about it, in 1999, George Bush raised $100M before announcing his campaign!!! No wonder he's run like a puppet. Same story with Buffalo Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan. Heck, the only 2 presidents I could say had limited financial pressure to their candidacy and presidency were George Sr. and Jimmy Carter. That, and they got blamed & badgered for the ecomonic conditions set by their predecessors.
At any rate, our government isn't run by the people, it's run by the money. How else could $1billion be spent on a $200,000 a year job?
gearhead on 05/27/2005 13:40:23
It doesn't matter how much money is raised by a candidate, or who the parties nominate, if the voters don't vote for them, they won't be elected. The problem is, too many voters affiliate themselves with a political party and completely ignore or disregard whether the candidates of those parties are worthy of their vote. How many voters do you know that vote a straight party ticket, even when they KNOW some of the candidates thay are voting for are slime, or even worse, without knowing ANYTHING about the candidate except their party affilliation?
MrBrownstone on 05/27/2005 15:13:09
I guess we don't disagree on very much. The main point I was trying to make was that the VOTER doesn't really have any choices. Without the big money machine, there is no candidate.
Even if we know a candidate will make us queasy in office, would you rather have listeria or dysentary? Salmonella or botulism?
"Political Parties are the only Parties where noone has fun, and everybody feels like puking afterwards"
danielm87 on 05/27/2005 22:04:52
Its all going down the drain, and if American people care about their lives & their country, we will do everything we can to nip the problems in the bud. I fear that soon a constitutional amendment will allow the ACLU to overpower the President, along with congress. hehe......laugh now, but its already started.
Stand up for everything, or stand up for NOTHING. whether it be banning gay marriage, nailing crooked lawyers, or eradicating slime bag politicians before they screw up the country even more.
I'm glad to see that there are some sane Americans out there that care about this stuff.
swez on 05/27/2005 22:38:42
Oh yeah... we are out there and picking the battles as they come. The old saying goes... " If we don't stand for something... we'll fall for anything" !!!
The ACLU? They are a bunch of left wing crackpots. Yes, they make a lot of noise, have lots of $$$ backing them and such, but they will not prevail against the active, thinking taxpayers and voters. Yes, they try hard to make stupid things become new laws.... but do we really need new laws? I fon't think so! THINK
How about reviewing the ones we have and pruning say 80% of them as well. Then, there would be little need for Lawyers, the court system and the huge overburden we now have in US Government payroles. If we only knew what was/is going on behind closed doors in Congress, the House, the Judicial and Executive branches of our Govt., we would leave town and march on Washington in a major social revolt. Sure, we hear all the good things they do just before re-election time... (getting all those mail fliers from our elected officials, 3 mos before elections) but most of that paper is only good for fire starting and recycling materials.
As I read what is going on in Michigan's political agenda, I just have to laugh. (to keep from crying) The last one I got (this week) was about banning bildge waste water dumping in the Great Lakes. These large vessles come from the oceans, come into the locks and drop ballast water to clear the locks. The water is often contaminated with many small critters that wind up in the Great Lakes. (Sea Lamprey, Zebra Mussles and such) These usually wind up becoming part of the food chain for Salmon, Lake Trout, small fish species and such) Not saying it's all good... but the Salmon population has exploded in size and numbers since the lamprey came in 20 years ago. Now that Lamprey are being contolled, the Salmon population is thinning and so are the size of the fish.
What's the point? Let the Fish & Game Department do their jobs. If they see detrimental situations that need to be managed by experts, give them a decent budget to manage the situation. This does not have to be a Top/Down Management decision from ignorant politicians who listen to the wealthy supporters.... "Whaaa, my Yacht is getting a lot more hull scum and Zebra Mussles on it. I have to pay more money each year to re-surface the hull on my boat". Whaaa... Whaaa... Whaaa!!! It's slowing down my boat and I have to buy more fuel too."
Oh that is so sad... I feel real bad that it costs so much to maintain your Yacht! (snicker..hehe)
Swez
lessismorespl on 05/28/2005 23:03:23
WOW swez, you are opening a can of worms here. I'm not going to make many comments here b/c I'm a prior Federal Drug Offender so my opinion of our beloved Government may be somewhat biased. Remember, the laws are made to protect those who create them and their interests, and when it can't do it's job, they are bent to sway in the direction of the money.
If you would like me to elaborate more w/ facts I will. I'm a standing member in the November Coalition, NORML, and FAMM. The statitics are almost sickening.
Here is one to think about, and Mr. B may know a little about this being from Minn.
A small agricultural college, University of Minn Waseca closed due to low enrollment and the lack of funding to bring the college up to code. The cost of bringing this college up to code was $10 million. In 1995 the US Department of Justice purchased the college and the surrounding land for a song and the promise of employing local people. They in turn renovated the college into a meduim security federal prison at a cost of $50 million.
Here is something else to think about, 68% of the people serving Federal Prison terms are non-violent offenders, 82% of them are 1st time offenders, the avg. sentence, 8.7 years, at a cost to the US tax payer of $32,000 per year per inmate.
From 1990 to 1998 over 200 schools and colleges closed thruout the United States from budget cuts and the lack of federal and State funding to make much needed renovations. In this same time span, the United States Department of Justice built 34 new prisons and/or prison camps at an avg. cost of $52.7 million. The annual federal budget has cut education every year since 1990, but has increased the DOJ's budget by a min. of 9% every year.
Let me stop now b/c that is just the tip of the iceberg.
swez on 05/29/2005 08:16:56
Interesting comments there Less. Yes, it's a large can of worms to be sure. But since the site is a bit slow at the moment, thought it might be interesting to add some political satire in the mix and see who responds and what they might haved to say.
Sounds like you have done some homework and know the costs of the DOJ. I have read estimates from $32 - 40,000 a year per inmate, is the cost of maintaining an inmate. Not sure how it has gotten to that level, but it's enough to support a small family in decent living conditions. (depending on locale)
What is the breakdown on such high costs for an inmate? Yes, 3 squares a day, a small room, health care, facilities costs, labor burden for the property, Management salaries, security measures, paper work galore (I would think?) and who knows what else.
The cost of education has been rising steadily for 25 years. When I was in college, (early 80's) it cost about $5-7 grand per year for 12-16 credits/semester. If one had the opportunity to go to a larger state sanctioned University, it was more like $10-12 grand a year. These days, I hear estimates of $30-40 grand/yr., at a good University. If one is a "Blue-blood" and takes the Ivy League route, what... $80,000 +/yr.? And... what do we get for all that expense? The right to get a decent job is the promise.
But, that does not seem to be as evident today. How many people out there have a Master's Degree and cannot find a decent job these days? The exact numbers... I have no idea! But I have run into a few very educated people that make less than $40,000 a year. (some, way less) That is sad!
On the flip side of that coin, there are many HS grads (AKA 8th grade level) that have landed jobs with the "Big 3" automakers and rake in $80-120,000 a year. The area I live in, is full of them. Great benefit packages, "job security", bumping rights and an excellent retirement plans. (Union members that is) That seems to be in jeopardy at the moment though. The general theme here is... "I work for XYZ, I drive an XYZ product and XYZ has provided a good lifestyle for my family". Seems like that "Gravy Train is coming to a screeching halt in the near future too. What is going on in this world?
Nuff Said!
Swez
PS More worms anyone?
lessismorespl on 05/29/2005 10:45:37
I'm unsure of why it cost so much, all work is performed by inmates, in such a diverse environment there are people from all walks of life(I'm refering to the Federal Prison system here), there are highly experienced and educated people from blue collar to white collar, even blue bloods. So maintance and repairs really does not cost them b/c the highest wage in a compound job is $.40/hr. The inmate food budget ranges from $2.80-$3.40 per inmate per day, so in short the food is basically bulk food that contain lots of carbs(rice, beans, potatoes, eggs, etc...) and much of the meat they buy comes from government surplus, the poultry comes from local farms, so food cost to supply 3 sqaures a day is minimal.
The prison runs a commissary which you can spend your $.40/hr earnings in to buy cigarettes, personal hygiene products, and non-perishable food items, these comes from Government contracted distributors(one of which is Keefe which is owned by the Bush family).
There is an industry, known as UNICOR(Federal Prison Industries) which manufacturers anything you can imagine to supply the DOJ, as well as most of the other government agencies. They manufacturer the inmate clothing, gloves for the Dept of Ag., print all the envolopes and stationary for the US Court system, makes the food service tables, etc... they manufacture almost anything you can think of for the military w/ the exception of guns and ammo, office furniture for DC, it is insane. Inmates that work for UNICOR are paid $.40/hr to a maximum of $1.55/hr(the only way to get to the max pay level is by having the max incentive pay bonus for longevity which cuts off after 12 yrs. You get $.05/hr every 13 months after you have your 18 months in, so 31 months, then 44 months, etc... The mark up on these products they produce is somewhere around 1000%, in the last factory
I worked before my release, we made office furniture, a large computer desk cost them $64.80 to make, the charge to the US Government was $640 + shipping. Another interesting note, all government agencies are required to purchase from UNICOR, the only way an outside contractor can get a bid is if UNICOR does not manufacture the product needed.
As for medical cost, all the Dr's, Dentists, etc... are fresh out of collge killing 2 birds w/ one stone, getting their inernship as well as working off Government loans. They take a job w/ the DOJ and make a cut wage while doing their internship and the Government takes the difference torwards the loan. They sign a 3-5 yr contract and can have the loan paid off easily, also, since they are working for the Gov't, they do not have to pay interest.
To be a guard, you only need a high school education or equivelent. They start @ $32.5K/yr w/ full medical and dental. You need some college to advance to senior officer or LT. Many do not care about that b/c in most of the areas they have Fed prisons, they are poor and small communities that needed a lift and the gov't gave them that.
Yes, the US car industry is failing rapidly. I know I'm gonna get some flack for this, but it is basically facts people do not want to face.
Greed was a major factor, the Unions came into play, now we have uneducated workers making $20+/hr and have dismal attitudes towards the product they produce(the " don't have to drive it" attitude). So the quality has suffered over the years, as well as the industry as a whole due to overpaid employees, and producing a poor product. Think about it, most "rice" cars(as people like to refer to them here in Michigan), have a very low maintenance cost, you keep oil in them, new tires, the occassional brake job, they run forever. I have a 03 Ford, it has needed over $3K of work done on it and it is not even 2 yrs old yet(ball joints, rear axle, wiper motor, washer motor, etc...) these repairs along w/ my faithful 3K miles oil changes and other PM's have made this car a very exspensive vehicle. My friend has a 01 Camry and it has never needed anything but brakes, tires, and oil changes, 2 tune-ups, and it has 150K+ on it, I have just over 50 on mine. So in thatlight, the workers pretty much did it too themselves. When you have a society that cares about what they manufacture, produces a reliable and durable product, and is happy w/ minimal pay for doing this job, eventually they will over come the big boys.
You want me to get into who is who in the Big League corporation money that floats around DC? I will give some links:
http://www.infowars.com/
http://www.prisonplanet.com/
http://www.november.org/
http://www.famm.org/
Some truthful facts that are not sugar coated by major gov't regulated media. These sites actually use their 1st amendment rights.
gearhead on 05/29/2005 10:58:33
Educated doesn't necessarily correlate to smart. I could never figure out why (other than personal/job satisfaction) someone would invest the time & money to obtain a MSW when the majority of the jobs available with that degree pay peanuts.
As far as our prison system and it's costs, most consider my views Draconian. It wouldn't cost much to operate them though.
lessismorespl on 05/29/2005 14:56:28
I imagine they would be "draconian" as you say. After serving more time than some-one convicted of rape, child molestation, and even in some cases murder for a few pounds of marijuana, not to mention being my first offense, I do not understand why our gov't waste money on it. Your draconian measures may suit the small percentage of people that deserve to be there, but what about the 1st time non-violent offenders? They make up over 65% of the Federal Prison system. The avg. age range is 18-25. So you are saying you would take draconian measures w/ them also?
swez on 05/29/2005 16:33:20
Very interesting insights on this thread. Glad to see some additional posts on such topics.
So, a few kilos of pot, 1st time offense nets how many months in the slammer? Did you mention it was for personal use only... glaucoma or pain management etc? hehe There are a few angles a sharp lawyer can play here. That's just plain crazy! I can see 2 - 5 years probabtion and X hours of rehab and community services... but that's about it for a 1st timer unless it's the heavy stuff like Meth, Coke, Heroin or the like... or got busted in a sale. (Non-taxable income?)
MSW = modest wages for Community Services pratice or a bit better if in a small LLC. ($45-80,000/annum) However, if one has the ability to open their own office and have a decent # of steady clients, most charge about $65-85/session. So, 40 sessions a week grosses $130,000 - 170,000 annually. Figure $25,000 for an office or better still, have a home office and write part of that off. Taxes and misc., operational expenses would be about $35-50,000/yr. Not a bad chunk of change in all. Still over $80,000/yr.
Auto Workers... that seems more like an oxymoron to me. Something akin to "Jumbo Shrimp, Military Intelligence" and the like. My neighbor's wife works for Ford Transmission. She puts in lots of OT and does work pretty hard. I see her dragging in at 1:30 AM and looking pretty beat up after a 12-14 hour shift. So, yes... she must be doing something while there.
Her dad also works at the same place as a machine maintenance foreman. He too, puts in lots of OT and probably nets close to $160,000/yr. He has 40 years there now and still cannot (will not) retire at 63. I think he's not looking forward to being home with his wife that much...? So he just keeps on plugging away while there are dozens of younger people waiting for his position, when he steps down or croaks.
My guess, Ford will try to buy him out soon. Give him 2-3 years of retirement and he'll either croak or find a different job to avoid the wife for a few more years.
Quality cars come mostly from Japan today. Not a big secret right. Look at the top 10 Best picks in Consumer Reports. Most are Japanese and maybe a few European offerings too. If there is an American vehicle in the grouping, most of its key parts are made by the Japanese. Also, most Japanese cars could be a whole lot cheaper to buy than now. Why? The import tariffs are pretty steep. Not sure exactly what the numbers are, but the Japanese have conceded in one respect, they now make some cars here in the USA.
Many plants are super automated, so limited numbers of workers are needed on the assembly lines. Interesting note... how many recalls have ya seen on Japanese cars in the past 10 years? NOT MANY!!! I believe Toyota has just released a notice on US made vehicles for a steering wheel issue. Something to do with inadequate welding of a suppurt bracket was sited. Not a huge recall # either. But the fix will be a bit expensive as it is behind the dash plate. Hopefully a bolted bracket fix is available here. If they had to weld under the dash, that could be very costly!
Finally, the best 2 vehicles I have ever owned/drove were all Nissan/Datsun products. A 1980 Datsun 310 GX Hatchback and a pair of Mercury Villager (Nissan Quest) minivans. The Datsun was 12 years old when I donated it to a church. Had 136K miles on it, still ran pretty well and body was starting to deteriorate from many years of Midwest winter saltings. The front brakes were the only issue on this car. A poor caliper design was used as this was one of the first front wheel drive models to hit the US market. OK, so I had to do the brakes every 40,000 miles or so. No biggie... 3 hours work and 4 sets of pads, a few rotor turns and 1 sticky caliper replaced. So.... maybe $300.00 on that for the whole time I owned that car. (did my own work as it was pretty easy.... just had to buy a rotor puller tool)
Honorble mention: 1992-1995 Ford Taurus. Had 2 of them for Company vehicles. Solid cars, good fuel economy, very stable on the highway and very little maintainance in 75,000 mi/each. The stock 3.0 Liter engine was a dog in a car of that weight... but what the hey, cannot complain. It was virtually free to drive. Very minimal repairs on both Taurus models. Very good cruiser at 75-80 MPH on the highway.
Swez
swez on 05/29/2005 17:40:53
Oh... you are talking about a Penal Colony type deal then. Ship inmates off a deserted island, shark infested waters and such like the French did in the late 1890's and early 1900's. Many died before their time was served by diseases and malnutrician. If the guards and such were not rotated on a regular basis, they had the same fate.
Rehab? Most prison managers have desided that most inmates are not able to be rehabilitated. That may be true for a hardened career criminal, but not the same for a person who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and got snared in a wide net.
Look, am not saying one should not repay a debt to society if one chooses to live a life of crime. But, there are many people in prison today that don't belong there. However, the reverse is true also... there are a lot of people that belong in prison, but are walking about scott free for one reason or another. Many of them are working for our Govt., or are foreign dignataries. These people are politiacally immune from illegal behavior and not subject to the laws of our land. Go figure huh?
I like the model of how the Bible provided refuge for certain acts of unintentional death. Back then, a man who "unintentionally" took the life of another, could go to a city of refuge for safety and would not be hunted down for revenge. These places were established to be 1/2 days walk from a major city or encampment. The guy who's bull, gored a neighbor to death was not liable on a first offense. He was allowed to leave that city, go to a place of refuge and the bull was killed to prevent future deaths. That made sense then, wonder how it might work today?
There were other laws then too. If a man or woman were caught in the act of adultry, both were removed from the city gates and stoned to death. That's a pretty stiff penalty for a night out on the town without your spouse.
Stealing, fraud or obtaining stolen property came with a penatly of paying back 100% to the original owner + 20% interest and to bring a "sin sacrifice" to the priest of a bull, ram or whatever was deemed appropriate for that crime. Not sure how many of us have a bull or ram to offer these days... but the idea was pretty straight up, it's payback time. If you want to get a mans' attention, hit him in the wallet.
The biggest criminals of that day were legal agents of the IRS. (Tax collectors) They could shake anyone down for whatever amount they chose, gave a percentage to the Roman Gov't., and kept the rest. Like today, the taxman was one of the most dispised persons on the planet. Guess things have not changed very much in the past 3000 years huh?
Swez
swez on 05/30/2005 00:20:49
WOW Less, that really sucks what happened to you. A definite case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Fixing a buddy's car when a bust came down, does not make you a felon. In fact, I am hoppin mad to hear what you went through because of a lousy lawyer, not performing due diligence in arguing your case properly. That, IMHO... is the real crime here.
Now that you have done your time and suffered the indigities of same, have you ever considered going back to court and having your name cleared and the lables removed? (Ie: sealed records or exsponged) Not sure how that is accomplished... but it seems clear from your comments that it was a case of being at the wrong spot at the wrong time and chose not to "rat" on others.
Yes, this happened a long time ago... but the felony label will hinder you for a long time. (employment wise) Consider looking into that matter and see if you can at least get your records erased. It was enough to lose all you had and spend 11 years in the "sysytem". To me, you have more than paid your way on the matter. Just too bad ya got stuck in the same game as the guys that were dealing. That seems worth fighting for IMHO!
Swez
lessismorespl on 05/30/2005 08:30:08
There was not much my lawyer could do, you must remember there is no such thng as a good lawyer, it is all dependant on how much money you are willing to pay and who the lawyer knows.
I was convicted of Conspiracy, due to the fact I was present in the house during the raid, as well as was seen on occassion to frequent the house, there is really nothing to argue. Remember, the Feds have a 98.7% conviction ratio.
swez on 05/30/2005 10:33:42
Fellas, let's put this part of the post to bed and let it be. What's done is done and cannot be changed by any squabbles here. We have all made some poor choices in our years... but why trash them around on this site? That is not what we do here and let's not degrade things any further.
Having strong opinions are fine in context. But we don't need this kind of drama on the main board. If you guys wish to hash this out between yourselves, OK... do it via Private E-mails or Club Mail... but not on the main board.
Thanks,
Swez
PS Would appreciate it if you both would either edit or delete the inflammatory remarks. If not, am sure Admins will.
swez on 05/30/2005 11:39:38
Thanks gearhead.... appreciate your deletes!
Swez
gearhead on 05/30/2005 11:42:37
NP. I'll stick to car audio stuff. Well, maybe an occasional home audio question too.
swez on 05/30/2005 12:03:07
Fair enough.... off topic is just that. It's OK to deviate and post interesting news and commentary. Just trying to avoid flame wars on the site. CK is better than that... why be like many other sites that love to poke holes in other peeps ballons?
Swez SMILE
lessismorespl on 05/30/2005 15:01:14
I agree, this is a subject I'd rather not waste my energy on. I was tagged a Political Radical while incarcerated for being a member of various organizations. I would really hate to become tagged on here also. We all have our opinions.
Personally I'd like to stick to car audio also, however it is nice to have an occassional off-topic thread to vent or share opinions on.
swez on 05/30/2005 17:57:34
Good nuff!
Swez
A band of thieves, liars, manipulators and moochers
Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:
29 have been accused of spousal abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
19 have been accused of writing bad checks
117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
3 have done time for assault
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year
Can you guess which organization this is?
Give up yet? Wanna hire a few of these folks for your organization? They are high profile people ya know... but pretty normal personal lives.
It's the 535 members of the United States Congress.
The same group of Idiots that crank out hundreds of laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line.
Swez THINK
Replies (24)
gearhead on 05/27/2005 08:23:51
Yet they keep getting reelected. Go figure. Fortunately, or unfortunately, in a democracy, we get the government that we
deserve-the government we elect.
swez on 05/27/2005 09:25:12
Not just that... how about the Supreme Court??? They are not elected by the public vote. Are appointed for life, until they retire or die in office. These "Elites" are not just interpreting the law any more. (as was designed in our Constitution) They are now making laws from the bench.
This is scary stuff guys. My generation has enough laws and legal matters to contend with. The Gen X & Y folks are really going to have many new problems to face as this process gets more steam.
Who are our elected officials? Most are Lawyers! Would be nice to see their resume's and background files, before they get elected. Just like most jobs today, many companies screen candidates for all sorts of information and background checks before they are even considered to be hired. Wouldn't that be a fair thing to do with elected officials and candidates who are planning to run for office?
True, many do a fine job looking out for their respective states and jurisdictions. However, charisma, good looks and a sharp resume are not enough. Once a new face comes into the game, it takes a few years of hammering and chisling them to fit the political mold.
Personally, I would never vote for Ted Kennedy in any public office. (maybe a dog catcher position) but hope he gets a few good bites along the way as he sure likes to bite others... heheh
Political satirely yours,
Swez
01gtpony on 05/27/2005 09:58:43
Hello Guys
I live here in Erie, PA. Our previous mayor is under legal scrutiny because of some shady land deals. They are trying to build a horserace track at a closed paper mill site. He and his relatives / business partners happed by chance to buy a lot of the surrounding property. Just by chance of course.
Well anyway there were a lot of people campaigning for him in the election. Sometimes I wonder where people’s heads are.
Ron
gearhead on 05/27/2005 11:04:19
The SC is appointed by those that we elect though. We keep reelecting officials that vote themselves unconsionable raises and benefits. You hear a lot about term limits. Term limits are already in place, and have been from the start. It's called VOTING. Too many people are only concerned about their own little corner of the U.S.. They will keep reelecting officials, questionable/illegal behavior notwithstanding, as long as those officials "bring home the bacon", regardless of the ramifications for the rest of the country.
MrBrownstone on 05/27/2005 12:00:10
As long as there's a buck to be made in public service, there'll be slime in office.
Democrats and Republicans are not different in any way. $$$ talks, and as long as they get it, they will do what the almight dollar elects them to do. Take away the campaign money, and you get altruistic candidates. Til then, you'll always get who the 'party' anoints their winner.
Think about it, in 1999, George Bush raised $100M before announcing his campaign!!! No wonder he's run like a puppet. Same story with Buffalo Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan. Heck, the only 2 presidents I could say had limited financial pressure to their candidacy and presidency were George Sr. and Jimmy Carter. That, and they got blamed & badgered for the ecomonic conditions set by their predecessors.
At any rate, our government isn't run by the people, it's run by the money. How else could $1billion be spent on a $200,000 a year job?
gearhead on 05/27/2005 13:40:23
It doesn't matter how much money is raised by a candidate, or who the parties nominate, if the voters don't vote for them, they won't be elected. The problem is, too many voters affiliate themselves with a political party and completely ignore or disregard whether the candidates of those parties are worthy of their vote. How many voters do you know that vote a straight party ticket, even when they KNOW some of the candidates thay are voting for are slime, or even worse, without knowing ANYTHING about the candidate except their party affilliation?
MrBrownstone on 05/27/2005 15:13:09
I guess we don't disagree on very much. The main point I was trying to make was that the VOTER doesn't really have any choices. Without the big money machine, there is no candidate.
Even if we know a candidate will make us queasy in office, would you rather have listeria or dysentary? Salmonella or botulism?
"Political Parties are the only Parties where noone has fun, and everybody feels like puking afterwards"
danielm87 on 05/27/2005 22:04:52
Its all going down the drain, and if American people care about their lives & their country, we will do everything we can to nip the problems in the bud. I fear that soon a constitutional amendment will allow the ACLU to overpower the President, along with congress. hehe......laugh now, but its already started.
Stand up for everything, or stand up for NOTHING. whether it be banning gay marriage, nailing crooked lawyers, or eradicating slime bag politicians before they screw up the country even more.
I'm glad to see that there are some sane Americans out there that care about this stuff.
swez on 05/27/2005 22:38:42
Oh yeah... we are out there and picking the battles as they come. The old saying goes... " If we don't stand for something... we'll fall for anything" !!!
The ACLU? They are a bunch of left wing crackpots. Yes, they make a lot of noise, have lots of $$$ backing them and such, but they will not prevail against the active, thinking taxpayers and voters. Yes, they try hard to make stupid things become new laws.... but do we really need new laws? I fon't think so! THINK
How about reviewing the ones we have and pruning say 80% of them as well. Then, there would be little need for Lawyers, the court system and the huge overburden we now have in US Government payroles. If we only knew what was/is going on behind closed doors in Congress, the House, the Judicial and Executive branches of our Govt., we would leave town and march on Washington in a major social revolt. Sure, we hear all the good things they do just before re-election time... (getting all those mail fliers from our elected officials, 3 mos before elections) but most of that paper is only good for fire starting and recycling materials.
As I read what is going on in Michigan's political agenda, I just have to laugh. (to keep from crying) The last one I got (this week) was about banning bildge waste water dumping in the Great Lakes. These large vessles come from the oceans, come into the locks and drop ballast water to clear the locks. The water is often contaminated with many small critters that wind up in the Great Lakes. (Sea Lamprey, Zebra Mussles and such) These usually wind up becoming part of the food chain for Salmon, Lake Trout, small fish species and such) Not saying it's all good... but the Salmon population has exploded in size and numbers since the lamprey came in 20 years ago. Now that Lamprey are being contolled, the Salmon population is thinning and so are the size of the fish.
What's the point? Let the Fish & Game Department do their jobs. If they see detrimental situations that need to be managed by experts, give them a decent budget to manage the situation. This does not have to be a Top/Down Management decision from ignorant politicians who listen to the wealthy supporters.... "Whaaa, my Yacht is getting a lot more hull scum and Zebra Mussles on it. I have to pay more money each year to re-surface the hull on my boat". Whaaa... Whaaa... Whaaa!!! It's slowing down my boat and I have to buy more fuel too."
Oh that is so sad... I feel real bad that it costs so much to maintain your Yacht! (snicker..hehe)
Swez
lessismorespl on 05/28/2005 23:03:23
WOW swez, you are opening a can of worms here. I'm not going to make many comments here b/c I'm a prior Federal Drug Offender so my opinion of our beloved Government may be somewhat biased. Remember, the laws are made to protect those who create them and their interests, and when it can't do it's job, they are bent to sway in the direction of the money.
If you would like me to elaborate more w/ facts I will. I'm a standing member in the November Coalition, NORML, and FAMM. The statitics are almost sickening.
Here is one to think about, and Mr. B may know a little about this being from Minn.
A small agricultural college, University of Minn Waseca closed due to low enrollment and the lack of funding to bring the college up to code. The cost of bringing this college up to code was $10 million. In 1995 the US Department of Justice purchased the college and the surrounding land for a song and the promise of employing local people. They in turn renovated the college into a meduim security federal prison at a cost of $50 million.
Here is something else to think about, 68% of the people serving Federal Prison terms are non-violent offenders, 82% of them are 1st time offenders, the avg. sentence, 8.7 years, at a cost to the US tax payer of $32,000 per year per inmate.
From 1990 to 1998 over 200 schools and colleges closed thruout the United States from budget cuts and the lack of federal and State funding to make much needed renovations. In this same time span, the United States Department of Justice built 34 new prisons and/or prison camps at an avg. cost of $52.7 million. The annual federal budget has cut education every year since 1990, but has increased the DOJ's budget by a min. of 9% every year.
Let me stop now b/c that is just the tip of the iceberg.
swez on 05/29/2005 08:16:56
Interesting comments there Less. Yes, it's a large can of worms to be sure. But since the site is a bit slow at the moment, thought it might be interesting to add some political satire in the mix and see who responds and what they might haved to say.
Sounds like you have done some homework and know the costs of the DOJ. I have read estimates from $32 - 40,000 a year per inmate, is the cost of maintaining an inmate. Not sure how it has gotten to that level, but it's enough to support a small family in decent living conditions. (depending on locale)
What is the breakdown on such high costs for an inmate? Yes, 3 squares a day, a small room, health care, facilities costs, labor burden for the property, Management salaries, security measures, paper work galore (I would think?) and who knows what else.
The cost of education has been rising steadily for 25 years. When I was in college, (early 80's) it cost about $5-7 grand per year for 12-16 credits/semester. If one had the opportunity to go to a larger state sanctioned University, it was more like $10-12 grand a year. These days, I hear estimates of $30-40 grand/yr., at a good University. If one is a "Blue-blood" and takes the Ivy League route, what... $80,000 +/yr.? And... what do we get for all that expense? The right to get a decent job is the promise.
But, that does not seem to be as evident today. How many people out there have a Master's Degree and cannot find a decent job these days? The exact numbers... I have no idea! But I have run into a few very educated people that make less than $40,000 a year. (some, way less) That is sad!
On the flip side of that coin, there are many HS grads (AKA 8th grade level) that have landed jobs with the "Big 3" automakers and rake in $80-120,000 a year. The area I live in, is full of them. Great benefit packages, "job security", bumping rights and an excellent retirement plans. (Union members that is) That seems to be in jeopardy at the moment though. The general theme here is... "I work for XYZ, I drive an XYZ product and XYZ has provided a good lifestyle for my family". Seems like that "Gravy Train is coming to a screeching halt in the near future too. What is going on in this world?
Nuff Said!
Swez
PS More worms anyone?
lessismorespl on 05/29/2005 10:45:37
I'm unsure of why it cost so much, all work is performed by inmates, in such a diverse environment there are people from all walks of life(I'm refering to the Federal Prison system here), there are highly experienced and educated people from blue collar to white collar, even blue bloods. So maintance and repairs really does not cost them b/c the highest wage in a compound job is $.40/hr. The inmate food budget ranges from $2.80-$3.40 per inmate per day, so in short the food is basically bulk food that contain lots of carbs(rice, beans, potatoes, eggs, etc...) and much of the meat they buy comes from government surplus, the poultry comes from local farms, so food cost to supply 3 sqaures a day is minimal.
The prison runs a commissary which you can spend your $.40/hr earnings in to buy cigarettes, personal hygiene products, and non-perishable food items, these comes from Government contracted distributors(one of which is Keefe which is owned by the Bush family).
There is an industry, known as UNICOR(Federal Prison Industries) which manufacturers anything you can imagine to supply the DOJ, as well as most of the other government agencies. They manufacturer the inmate clothing, gloves for the Dept of Ag., print all the envolopes and stationary for the US Court system, makes the food service tables, etc... they manufacture almost anything you can think of for the military w/ the exception of guns and ammo, office furniture for DC, it is insane. Inmates that work for UNICOR are paid $.40/hr to a maximum of $1.55/hr(the only way to get to the max pay level is by having the max incentive pay bonus for longevity which cuts off after 12 yrs. You get $.05/hr every 13 months after you have your 18 months in, so 31 months, then 44 months, etc... The mark up on these products they produce is somewhere around 1000%, in the last factory
I worked before my release, we made office furniture, a large computer desk cost them $64.80 to make, the charge to the US Government was $640 + shipping. Another interesting note, all government agencies are required to purchase from UNICOR, the only way an outside contractor can get a bid is if UNICOR does not manufacture the product needed.
As for medical cost, all the Dr's, Dentists, etc... are fresh out of collge killing 2 birds w/ one stone, getting their inernship as well as working off Government loans. They take a job w/ the DOJ and make a cut wage while doing their internship and the Government takes the difference torwards the loan. They sign a 3-5 yr contract and can have the loan paid off easily, also, since they are working for the Gov't, they do not have to pay interest.
To be a guard, you only need a high school education or equivelent. They start @ $32.5K/yr w/ full medical and dental. You need some college to advance to senior officer or LT. Many do not care about that b/c in most of the areas they have Fed prisons, they are poor and small communities that needed a lift and the gov't gave them that.
Yes, the US car industry is failing rapidly. I know I'm gonna get some flack for this, but it is basically facts people do not want to face.
Greed was a major factor, the Unions came into play, now we have uneducated workers making $20+/hr and have dismal attitudes towards the product they produce(the " don't have to drive it" attitude). So the quality has suffered over the years, as well as the industry as a whole due to overpaid employees, and producing a poor product. Think about it, most "rice" cars(as people like to refer to them here in Michigan), have a very low maintenance cost, you keep oil in them, new tires, the occassional brake job, they run forever. I have a 03 Ford, it has needed over $3K of work done on it and it is not even 2 yrs old yet(ball joints, rear axle, wiper motor, washer motor, etc...) these repairs along w/ my faithful 3K miles oil changes and other PM's have made this car a very exspensive vehicle. My friend has a 01 Camry and it has never needed anything but brakes, tires, and oil changes, 2 tune-ups, and it has 150K+ on it, I have just over 50 on mine. So in thatlight, the workers pretty much did it too themselves. When you have a society that cares about what they manufacture, produces a reliable and durable product, and is happy w/ minimal pay for doing this job, eventually they will over come the big boys.
You want me to get into who is who in the Big League corporation money that floats around DC? I will give some links:
http://www.infowars.com/
http://www.prisonplanet.com/
http://www.november.org/
http://www.famm.org/
Some truthful facts that are not sugar coated by major gov't regulated media. These sites actually use their 1st amendment rights.
gearhead on 05/29/2005 10:58:33
Educated doesn't necessarily correlate to smart. I could never figure out why (other than personal/job satisfaction) someone would invest the time & money to obtain a MSW when the majority of the jobs available with that degree pay peanuts.
As far as our prison system and it's costs, most consider my views Draconian. It wouldn't cost much to operate them though.
lessismorespl on 05/29/2005 14:56:28
I imagine they would be "draconian" as you say. After serving more time than some-one convicted of rape, child molestation, and even in some cases murder for a few pounds of marijuana, not to mention being my first offense, I do not understand why our gov't waste money on it. Your draconian measures may suit the small percentage of people that deserve to be there, but what about the 1st time non-violent offenders? They make up over 65% of the Federal Prison system. The avg. age range is 18-25. So you are saying you would take draconian measures w/ them also?
swez on 05/29/2005 16:33:20
Very interesting insights on this thread. Glad to see some additional posts on such topics.
So, a few kilos of pot, 1st time offense nets how many months in the slammer? Did you mention it was for personal use only... glaucoma or pain management etc? hehe There are a few angles a sharp lawyer can play here. That's just plain crazy! I can see 2 - 5 years probabtion and X hours of rehab and community services... but that's about it for a 1st timer unless it's the heavy stuff like Meth, Coke, Heroin or the like... or got busted in a sale. (Non-taxable income?)
MSW = modest wages for Community Services pratice or a bit better if in a small LLC. ($45-80,000/annum) However, if one has the ability to open their own office and have a decent # of steady clients, most charge about $65-85/session. So, 40 sessions a week grosses $130,000 - 170,000 annually. Figure $25,000 for an office or better still, have a home office and write part of that off. Taxes and misc., operational expenses would be about $35-50,000/yr. Not a bad chunk of change in all. Still over $80,000/yr.
Auto Workers... that seems more like an oxymoron to me. Something akin to "Jumbo Shrimp, Military Intelligence" and the like. My neighbor's wife works for Ford Transmission. She puts in lots of OT and does work pretty hard. I see her dragging in at 1:30 AM and looking pretty beat up after a 12-14 hour shift. So, yes... she must be doing something while there.
Her dad also works at the same place as a machine maintenance foreman. He too, puts in lots of OT and probably nets close to $160,000/yr. He has 40 years there now and still cannot (will not) retire at 63. I think he's not looking forward to being home with his wife that much...? So he just keeps on plugging away while there are dozens of younger people waiting for his position, when he steps down or croaks.
My guess, Ford will try to buy him out soon. Give him 2-3 years of retirement and he'll either croak or find a different job to avoid the wife for a few more years.
Quality cars come mostly from Japan today. Not a big secret right. Look at the top 10 Best picks in Consumer Reports. Most are Japanese and maybe a few European offerings too. If there is an American vehicle in the grouping, most of its key parts are made by the Japanese. Also, most Japanese cars could be a whole lot cheaper to buy than now. Why? The import tariffs are pretty steep. Not sure exactly what the numbers are, but the Japanese have conceded in one respect, they now make some cars here in the USA.
Many plants are super automated, so limited numbers of workers are needed on the assembly lines. Interesting note... how many recalls have ya seen on Japanese cars in the past 10 years? NOT MANY!!! I believe Toyota has just released a notice on US made vehicles for a steering wheel issue. Something to do with inadequate welding of a suppurt bracket was sited. Not a huge recall # either. But the fix will be a bit expensive as it is behind the dash plate. Hopefully a bolted bracket fix is available here. If they had to weld under the dash, that could be very costly!
Finally, the best 2 vehicles I have ever owned/drove were all Nissan/Datsun products. A 1980 Datsun 310 GX Hatchback and a pair of Mercury Villager (Nissan Quest) minivans. The Datsun was 12 years old when I donated it to a church. Had 136K miles on it, still ran pretty well and body was starting to deteriorate from many years of Midwest winter saltings. The front brakes were the only issue on this car. A poor caliper design was used as this was one of the first front wheel drive models to hit the US market. OK, so I had to do the brakes every 40,000 miles or so. No biggie... 3 hours work and 4 sets of pads, a few rotor turns and 1 sticky caliper replaced. So.... maybe $300.00 on that for the whole time I owned that car. (did my own work as it was pretty easy.... just had to buy a rotor puller tool)
Honorble mention: 1992-1995 Ford Taurus. Had 2 of them for Company vehicles. Solid cars, good fuel economy, very stable on the highway and very little maintainance in 75,000 mi/each. The stock 3.0 Liter engine was a dog in a car of that weight... but what the hey, cannot complain. It was virtually free to drive. Very minimal repairs on both Taurus models. Very good cruiser at 75-80 MPH on the highway.
Swez
swez on 05/29/2005 17:40:53
Oh... you are talking about a Penal Colony type deal then. Ship inmates off a deserted island, shark infested waters and such like the French did in the late 1890's and early 1900's. Many died before their time was served by diseases and malnutrician. If the guards and such were not rotated on a regular basis, they had the same fate.
Rehab? Most prison managers have desided that most inmates are not able to be rehabilitated. That may be true for a hardened career criminal, but not the same for a person who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and got snared in a wide net.
Look, am not saying one should not repay a debt to society if one chooses to live a life of crime. But, there are many people in prison today that don't belong there. However, the reverse is true also... there are a lot of people that belong in prison, but are walking about scott free for one reason or another. Many of them are working for our Govt., or are foreign dignataries. These people are politiacally immune from illegal behavior and not subject to the laws of our land. Go figure huh?
I like the model of how the Bible provided refuge for certain acts of unintentional death. Back then, a man who "unintentionally" took the life of another, could go to a city of refuge for safety and would not be hunted down for revenge. These places were established to be 1/2 days walk from a major city or encampment. The guy who's bull, gored a neighbor to death was not liable on a first offense. He was allowed to leave that city, go to a place of refuge and the bull was killed to prevent future deaths. That made sense then, wonder how it might work today?
There were other laws then too. If a man or woman were caught in the act of adultry, both were removed from the city gates and stoned to death. That's a pretty stiff penalty for a night out on the town without your spouse.
Stealing, fraud or obtaining stolen property came with a penatly of paying back 100% to the original owner + 20% interest and to bring a "sin sacrifice" to the priest of a bull, ram or whatever was deemed appropriate for that crime. Not sure how many of us have a bull or ram to offer these days... but the idea was pretty straight up, it's payback time. If you want to get a mans' attention, hit him in the wallet.
The biggest criminals of that day were legal agents of the IRS. (Tax collectors) They could shake anyone down for whatever amount they chose, gave a percentage to the Roman Gov't., and kept the rest. Like today, the taxman was one of the most dispised persons on the planet. Guess things have not changed very much in the past 3000 years huh?
Swez
swez on 05/30/2005 00:20:49
WOW Less, that really sucks what happened to you. A definite case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Fixing a buddy's car when a bust came down, does not make you a felon. In fact, I am hoppin mad to hear what you went through because of a lousy lawyer, not performing due diligence in arguing your case properly. That, IMHO... is the real crime here.
Now that you have done your time and suffered the indigities of same, have you ever considered going back to court and having your name cleared and the lables removed? (Ie: sealed records or exsponged) Not sure how that is accomplished... but it seems clear from your comments that it was a case of being at the wrong spot at the wrong time and chose not to "rat" on others.
Yes, this happened a long time ago... but the felony label will hinder you for a long time. (employment wise) Consider looking into that matter and see if you can at least get your records erased. It was enough to lose all you had and spend 11 years in the "sysytem". To me, you have more than paid your way on the matter. Just too bad ya got stuck in the same game as the guys that were dealing. That seems worth fighting for IMHO!
Swez
lessismorespl on 05/30/2005 08:30:08
There was not much my lawyer could do, you must remember there is no such thng as a good lawyer, it is all dependant on how much money you are willing to pay and who the lawyer knows.
I was convicted of Conspiracy, due to the fact I was present in the house during the raid, as well as was seen on occassion to frequent the house, there is really nothing to argue. Remember, the Feds have a 98.7% conviction ratio.
swez on 05/30/2005 10:33:42
Fellas, let's put this part of the post to bed and let it be. What's done is done and cannot be changed by any squabbles here. We have all made some poor choices in our years... but why trash them around on this site? That is not what we do here and let's not degrade things any further.
Having strong opinions are fine in context. But we don't need this kind of drama on the main board. If you guys wish to hash this out between yourselves, OK... do it via Private E-mails or Club Mail... but not on the main board.
Thanks,
Swez
PS Would appreciate it if you both would either edit or delete the inflammatory remarks. If not, am sure Admins will.
swez on 05/30/2005 11:39:38
Thanks gearhead.... appreciate your deletes!
Swez
gearhead on 05/30/2005 11:42:37
NP. I'll stick to car audio stuff. Well, maybe an occasional home audio question too.
swez on 05/30/2005 12:03:07
Fair enough.... off topic is just that. It's OK to deviate and post interesting news and commentary. Just trying to avoid flame wars on the site. CK is better than that... why be like many other sites that love to poke holes in other peeps ballons?
Swez SMILE
lessismorespl on 05/30/2005 15:01:14
I agree, this is a subject I'd rather not waste my energy on. I was tagged a Political Radical while incarcerated for being a member of various organizations. I would really hate to become tagged on here also. We all have our opinions.
Personally I'd like to stick to car audio also, however it is nice to have an occassional off-topic thread to vent or share opinions on.
swez on 05/30/2005 17:57:34
Good nuff!
Swez
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
