Hi guys quick question,
So I have a alpine type r in a q logic box and everything was dandy for a while, but then somehow, the subwoofer worked itself out of the box, taking the screws with it. How do u guys install the subwoofer into boxes? I think it also might be a problem that it is slanted. Thanks for your help
Replies (17)
swez on 05/19/2005 19:34:55
If the cutout hole is a good, snug fit, then "Tee Nuts" would be a good choice. A "Tee nut" is a special fastener that has cleated teeth and a threaded center for a bolt. That will work and not come out if installed properly. A 1/4" x 20 x 1" bolt or threaded screw is the other part of the fastener system. Most hardware stores have them for cheap. This is a pic of what they look like:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=081-1075
To install them properly, you have to remove the woofer, drill out the hole a bit to insert the Tee from the inside (backside) panel of the baffle panel and draw it flush. The bolt being screwed down will start the teeth, but you may have to back out the bolt a bit, use a claw hammer and draw the nut flush like pulling out a nail. Once the nut is well seated, repeat the same steps until you have 4 installed that line up with the sub mounting hole pattern.
NOTE: It might be good to use a test piece of wood to get the hang of this process. If you mess up the box lip, got more problems to deal with.
http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm
See the very bottom of the page as it discusses the use of "Tee nuts".
Instead of a hammer to draw the nut flush, can use a "C" clamp as well.
Swez
PS If the old holes are really messed up and you cannot use T nuts, there is another option. Just come back and I'll walk you through it.
Mr._Miyagi on 05/21/2005 19:23:28
the lip got messed up so i guess its time for a plan B if u have one swez.
Thanks
palmquist on 05/21/2005 20:51:25
just a thought... you could build another ring using a jigsaw and then drill the holes u need for the new bolts that you should put in... preferably in a different spot then the original holes were...next you could gorilla glue it or sumthin to the original ring but make sure wen u drilled the holes that u also drilled through the original ring too in the spots where ur new holes are... and then use the bolts and tee nuts to install the sub back in... the sub mite sit a little higher than originally but if ur box is flush mounted then it would be the same as any box that isnt flush mounted... but if ur worried about looks of ur box, i wouldnt do this... if just looking to get ur sub hooked back up then u mite want to try it... but if ur not sure about this and want to wait til sumone like swez reads this and responds thats fine too
gearhead on 05/21/2005 22:11:10
Why can't you just rotate the sub 15-20 degs. and drill new holes?
swez on 05/21/2005 22:28:47
Yep, I feared that might be the case... Plan B.
1. Fill the damaged holes and such with drywall mud compound
2. Sand fill material after dry to get a nice smooth lip surface again
3. This may take several thin coats of "mud" and sanding to get it right (vac out box when sanding is finished)
4. Then, install a foam gasket (1/4" thick, 3/8" wide), around the under lip of the sub so it seals well in the box (same thing as 3M window sealer gaskets... sticky on 1 side only, that side sticks to sub lip)
Hardware clamps and waffle type speaker grill are the next thing to get. These are nice as the clamps hold both the grill and sub firmly in place. I use these a lot in Pro installs for quick repairs in the field. Same on my own sub enclosure. USE TEE NUTS & BOLTS TO MOUNT 4 CLAMPS !!!
10" or smaller drivers: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-350
12" or larger drivers: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-352
Waffle grills: http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?DID=7&WebPage_ID=3&Start=3&Filter=Speaker%2Bgrills&searchorderby=1&sm=1&so=1&search_type=10276059&desc=ASC (choose the appropriate size you need)
I use the heavy duty grills as they can take a bit more punishment without deforming. They come in black metal, but can be painted for accent colors if you wish.
The install process is:
1. Install the sub w/o screws
2. Place the grill cover over the sub
3. Pre-align the 4 clamps at 12:00, 3:00, 6:00 & 9:00 positions
4. Mark your clamp holes and drill pilot holes (1/8") in the clamp mounts
5. Remove the clamps and re-drill the pilots to large enough size for the tee nuts.
6. Insert tee nuts from inside the box and draw them tight as noted earlier
7. Install clamps over grill and sub lip and sug til pretty tight (but don't strip the heads OK)
That's it... you are done,
Swez
PS That will be $10.00 "foul up fees" please, to the site donation kitty. CLAP
Mr._Miyagi on 05/22/2005 01:00:09
That seems much to difficult for my level of handyness so i think i will take the easy way out. Do any of you know where I could get a better sub box then a Q-Logic?
I'm sorry that i made u type so much and not take ur advice swez. Sorry.
swez on 05/22/2005 09:45:46
Do you have a friend or relative that is hany with carpentry repairs? If so, ask for some help from them.
If you wish to try a new box, consider Sub Zone. The are cheaper in price and better quality that most Q-Logic boxes I have reviewed.
http://www.thezeb.com/c-SubZone-5044.htm
Swez
PS, As gearhead mentioned, you can always re-orient the sub, make new holes and use the same box. Just use larger screws and more of them. Use 8 screws (#10 x1") That sub will not be going any where. Just re-position the sub a few degrees, drill 1/8" pilot holes, then run in your new screws.
Using a gasket of foam back tape will help seal the sub, so you don't get air leaks. A pic of gasket is noted on the link below. It's about half way down the page:
http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm
gearhead on 05/22/2005 10:44:29
You can also use a bead of silicone sealer for a "gasket". It will help hold the sub to the box even if the screws do come out. It's just going to be a real PITA to get the sub out later, but it can be done. This is pretty much a last ditch fix.
swez on 05/22/2005 12:06:26
Thought of that option too GH. However, was not lead to mention using it as it is messy and very hard to remove from carpeted surfaces. RTV can be softened with Acetone, but very hard to get out of carpet fibers. Might look like "Hammered Poop" if one is not careful to barrier layer of masking tape on the carpeted surface beyong the sub lip.
Can use a Latex based silicone though. It wipes clean with water and a rag, has very good sealing potential and the sub can be removed after the screws are pulled out, with a razor knife. That'll work as well.
Swez
Mr._Miyagi on 05/22/2005 17:58:59
i tried rotating by a few degrees, made the holes etc. put in the screws but then they came out again. I think it is cuz the box is slanted. I guess ill see if bestbuy or something can put it in and make it stay in for a reasonable price.
swez on 05/22/2005 18:10:12
What size screws are being used here? A 4-8 pack of #10 x1" sheet metal screws should be fine in holding power if they have enough wood to bite on to.
Is it possible the mounting hole is a bit too large for that woofer and you cannot get a good bite on the box?
Since the face is angled, you may have to prop the box up in such a way as the mounting panel is PARALLEL with the floor and use silicone as a sealant and adhesive. If you mask off the carpet on the face arounbd the outer lip for say 2" beyond the sub lip, can use a sharp utility knife to cut ouuf the excess when silicone is well cured, for a clean seal and look.
Swez
gearhead on 05/22/2005 18:51:05
Somethings not right here. The fact that the front is slanted shouldn't have any effect on whether the sub stays in the box. Did ALL of the screws fall out? Or just the ones at the top? What thickness is the material the box is made out of? The screws you use should be at least 1/16" longer than that thickness. Also, be sure you're using wood screws and not machine screws.
swez on 05/22/2005 19:27:18
Agreed, box having a slight angle should not matter. The box specs say 1" thick baffle panel for Q-Logic boxes I have looked at. The rest of the box is usually 5/8" MDF on the models I have looked at.
I prefer self-tapping or aggressive thread "sheet metal screws" as they have more holding power (bite) than a typical wood screw or even drywall screws.
Only use machine screws/bolts if you intend to use T nuts as well. Here, a 1/4" x 20 x 1" is more than adequate, assuming you get a good bite from the spiked T nuts off the lip of the cutout hole.
Swez
Mr._Miyagi on 05/22/2005 21:22:41
i guess ill go out and buy some sheet metal screws tomorrow. The problem is that the lip isnt wide enough so the only way a can get a good amount of wood is if only part of the sub is screwed in. I really don't know, Best Buy said they could get it in there for 15 bucks and i will probably just do that if the self tapping screws don't work out.
swez on 05/23/2005 09:58:31
The screws won't help here. Nothing to bite into if the sub lip is smaller then the hole cutout.
A custom trim ring will work as will the Parts Express shopping list noted. It's about 2 days delivery from OH to Chicago for these parts.
You might be well off to let BB do the repair for you. The price is good, takes about 30 minutes and you are good to go if the tech knows what he is doing. They have the tools and such... just a matter of getting a guy that has an eye for details and does a nice, clean repair.
Swez
Mr._Miyagi on 05/25/2005 08:27:41
Good news guys, I had best buy do it, cost 15 bucks and only took 15 mins. The guys also replaced the speaker wire in the sub cuz he said it was falling apart and now that everything is in place, my sub sounds noticeably better. In fact, I set of my first car alarm today as I was leaving best buy. Thanks for all your help again guys.
-Eli
swez on 05/25/2005 09:06:24
So much for the DIY'ers approach... glad to hear you have things back in order again!
Swez
PS Whadda ya know, BB can do somethings well after all. LOL
So I have a alpine type r in a q logic box and everything was dandy for a while, but then somehow, the subwoofer worked itself out of the box, taking the screws with it. How do u guys install the subwoofer into boxes? I think it also might be a problem that it is slanted. Thanks for your help
Replies (17)
swez on 05/19/2005 19:34:55
If the cutout hole is a good, snug fit, then "Tee Nuts" would be a good choice. A "Tee nut" is a special fastener that has cleated teeth and a threaded center for a bolt. That will work and not come out if installed properly. A 1/4" x 20 x 1" bolt or threaded screw is the other part of the fastener system. Most hardware stores have them for cheap. This is a pic of what they look like:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=081-1075
To install them properly, you have to remove the woofer, drill out the hole a bit to insert the Tee from the inside (backside) panel of the baffle panel and draw it flush. The bolt being screwed down will start the teeth, but you may have to back out the bolt a bit, use a claw hammer and draw the nut flush like pulling out a nail. Once the nut is well seated, repeat the same steps until you have 4 installed that line up with the sub mounting hole pattern.
NOTE: It might be good to use a test piece of wood to get the hang of this process. If you mess up the box lip, got more problems to deal with.
http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm
See the very bottom of the page as it discusses the use of "Tee nuts".
Instead of a hammer to draw the nut flush, can use a "C" clamp as well.
Swez
PS If the old holes are really messed up and you cannot use T nuts, there is another option. Just come back and I'll walk you through it.
Mr._Miyagi on 05/21/2005 19:23:28
the lip got messed up so i guess its time for a plan B if u have one swez.
Thanks
palmquist on 05/21/2005 20:51:25
just a thought... you could build another ring using a jigsaw and then drill the holes u need for the new bolts that you should put in... preferably in a different spot then the original holes were...next you could gorilla glue it or sumthin to the original ring but make sure wen u drilled the holes that u also drilled through the original ring too in the spots where ur new holes are... and then use the bolts and tee nuts to install the sub back in... the sub mite sit a little higher than originally but if ur box is flush mounted then it would be the same as any box that isnt flush mounted... but if ur worried about looks of ur box, i wouldnt do this... if just looking to get ur sub hooked back up then u mite want to try it... but if ur not sure about this and want to wait til sumone like swez reads this and responds thats fine too
gearhead on 05/21/2005 22:11:10
Why can't you just rotate the sub 15-20 degs. and drill new holes?
swez on 05/21/2005 22:28:47
Yep, I feared that might be the case... Plan B.
1. Fill the damaged holes and such with drywall mud compound
2. Sand fill material after dry to get a nice smooth lip surface again
3. This may take several thin coats of "mud" and sanding to get it right (vac out box when sanding is finished)
4. Then, install a foam gasket (1/4" thick, 3/8" wide), around the under lip of the sub so it seals well in the box (same thing as 3M window sealer gaskets... sticky on 1 side only, that side sticks to sub lip)
Hardware clamps and waffle type speaker grill are the next thing to get. These are nice as the clamps hold both the grill and sub firmly in place. I use these a lot in Pro installs for quick repairs in the field. Same on my own sub enclosure. USE TEE NUTS & BOLTS TO MOUNT 4 CLAMPS !!!
10" or smaller drivers: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-350
12" or larger drivers: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-352
Waffle grills: http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?DID=7&WebPage_ID=3&Start=3&Filter=Speaker%2Bgrills&searchorderby=1&sm=1&so=1&search_type=10276059&desc=ASC (choose the appropriate size you need)
I use the heavy duty grills as they can take a bit more punishment without deforming. They come in black metal, but can be painted for accent colors if you wish.
The install process is:
1. Install the sub w/o screws
2. Place the grill cover over the sub
3. Pre-align the 4 clamps at 12:00, 3:00, 6:00 & 9:00 positions
4. Mark your clamp holes and drill pilot holes (1/8") in the clamp mounts
5. Remove the clamps and re-drill the pilots to large enough size for the tee nuts.
6. Insert tee nuts from inside the box and draw them tight as noted earlier
7. Install clamps over grill and sub lip and sug til pretty tight (but don't strip the heads OK)
That's it... you are done,
Swez
PS That will be $10.00 "foul up fees" please, to the site donation kitty. CLAP
Mr._Miyagi on 05/22/2005 01:00:09
That seems much to difficult for my level of handyness so i think i will take the easy way out. Do any of you know where I could get a better sub box then a Q-Logic?
I'm sorry that i made u type so much and not take ur advice swez. Sorry.
swez on 05/22/2005 09:45:46
Do you have a friend or relative that is hany with carpentry repairs? If so, ask for some help from them.
If you wish to try a new box, consider Sub Zone. The are cheaper in price and better quality that most Q-Logic boxes I have reviewed.
http://www.thezeb.com/c-SubZone-5044.htm
Swez
PS, As gearhead mentioned, you can always re-orient the sub, make new holes and use the same box. Just use larger screws and more of them. Use 8 screws (#10 x1") That sub will not be going any where. Just re-position the sub a few degrees, drill 1/8" pilot holes, then run in your new screws.
Using a gasket of foam back tape will help seal the sub, so you don't get air leaks. A pic of gasket is noted on the link below. It's about half way down the page:
http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm
gearhead on 05/22/2005 10:44:29
You can also use a bead of silicone sealer for a "gasket". It will help hold the sub to the box even if the screws do come out. It's just going to be a real PITA to get the sub out later, but it can be done. This is pretty much a last ditch fix.
swez on 05/22/2005 12:06:26
Thought of that option too GH. However, was not lead to mention using it as it is messy and very hard to remove from carpeted surfaces. RTV can be softened with Acetone, but very hard to get out of carpet fibers. Might look like "Hammered Poop" if one is not careful to barrier layer of masking tape on the carpeted surface beyong the sub lip.
Can use a Latex based silicone though. It wipes clean with water and a rag, has very good sealing potential and the sub can be removed after the screws are pulled out, with a razor knife. That'll work as well.
Swez
Mr._Miyagi on 05/22/2005 17:58:59
i tried rotating by a few degrees, made the holes etc. put in the screws but then they came out again. I think it is cuz the box is slanted. I guess ill see if bestbuy or something can put it in and make it stay in for a reasonable price.
swez on 05/22/2005 18:10:12
What size screws are being used here? A 4-8 pack of #10 x1" sheet metal screws should be fine in holding power if they have enough wood to bite on to.
Is it possible the mounting hole is a bit too large for that woofer and you cannot get a good bite on the box?
Since the face is angled, you may have to prop the box up in such a way as the mounting panel is PARALLEL with the floor and use silicone as a sealant and adhesive. If you mask off the carpet on the face arounbd the outer lip for say 2" beyond the sub lip, can use a sharp utility knife to cut ouuf the excess when silicone is well cured, for a clean seal and look.
Swez
gearhead on 05/22/2005 18:51:05
Somethings not right here. The fact that the front is slanted shouldn't have any effect on whether the sub stays in the box. Did ALL of the screws fall out? Or just the ones at the top? What thickness is the material the box is made out of? The screws you use should be at least 1/16" longer than that thickness. Also, be sure you're using wood screws and not machine screws.
swez on 05/22/2005 19:27:18
Agreed, box having a slight angle should not matter. The box specs say 1" thick baffle panel for Q-Logic boxes I have looked at. The rest of the box is usually 5/8" MDF on the models I have looked at.
I prefer self-tapping or aggressive thread "sheet metal screws" as they have more holding power (bite) than a typical wood screw or even drywall screws.
Only use machine screws/bolts if you intend to use T nuts as well. Here, a 1/4" x 20 x 1" is more than adequate, assuming you get a good bite from the spiked T nuts off the lip of the cutout hole.
Swez
Mr._Miyagi on 05/22/2005 21:22:41
i guess ill go out and buy some sheet metal screws tomorrow. The problem is that the lip isnt wide enough so the only way a can get a good amount of wood is if only part of the sub is screwed in. I really don't know, Best Buy said they could get it in there for 15 bucks and i will probably just do that if the self tapping screws don't work out.
swez on 05/23/2005 09:58:31
The screws won't help here. Nothing to bite into if the sub lip is smaller then the hole cutout.
A custom trim ring will work as will the Parts Express shopping list noted. It's about 2 days delivery from OH to Chicago for these parts.
You might be well off to let BB do the repair for you. The price is good, takes about 30 minutes and you are good to go if the tech knows what he is doing. They have the tools and such... just a matter of getting a guy that has an eye for details and does a nice, clean repair.
Swez
Mr._Miyagi on 05/25/2005 08:27:41
Good news guys, I had best buy do it, cost 15 bucks and only took 15 mins. The guys also replaced the speaker wire in the sub cuz he said it was falling apart and now that everything is in place, my sub sounds noticeably better. In fact, I set of my first car alarm today as I was leaving best buy. Thanks for all your help again guys.
-Eli
swez on 05/25/2005 09:06:24
So much for the DIY'ers approach... glad to hear you have things back in order again!
Swez
PS Whadda ya know, BB can do somethings well after all. LOL
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