alrite... i dont have that nice of a system now... and thats y im thinking of upgrading
im thinking about getting a pair or just one 15 avalanche... im just curious to see what peoples opinions are on them... and also if anyone has one them can u tell wut u are using as far as enclsoure and amp
another reason these look so nice to me rite now is because of the price...
Replies (42)
Tinker18 on 05/14/2005 18:22:52
do you have a link to the sub or any specs on the sub. need more info to work with here. thanks.
-KP
palmquist on 05/15/2005 22:39:18
http://www.ascendantaudio.com/archive/Avalanche%2015.htm
thats the site.. here are a few specs
Fs 15.7 Hz
Qms 3.5
Qes .334
Qts .305
Vas 300.6 L
Re 3.2 ohms
Znom* 4 ohms
Xmax 27 mm
Sd 749 cm2
Mms 269 g
Vd 4.04 L
Pnom 800 watts
Le 2.4 mH
Cutout 14.125"
Diameter 15.5"
Depth 7.875"
Weight 37 pounds
*dual 2 ohm coils in series
compvr15s on 05/16/2005 02:41:54
i have contacted this company since i only live a few hrs away, i was going to go preview the sub, for the price i dont see why not to go for it, 27mm xmax should move some serious air, here is a link to some vids and pics on this brand http://www.woofervids.com/thumbnails.php?album=77
i have yet to make it to the windy city and check them out but i have read many reviews and havent heard anything bad about them.... only think i dont like is that i dont think they come in dual 4 ohm, wiring on them is rather strange only wire one coil, the other is for another purpose, but the power handling is low which is good if your on a budget, either need 1omh stable or 4 ohm amp, 1 omh = mono class d amp. if you go 4 ohm then a 2 channel amp will probably deliver that power at 4 ohms, takes a big class d amp to get 800 or so watts at 4 ohms, just my two cents but i have been really looking into these woofers, if you do go ahead and get these, please inform us on these, i would like to know what ya think about them,
swez on 05/16/2005 10:51:24
That Avalanche subs looks very similar to the Brahma series products from Adire Audio. Is a 2+2 DVC configuration and they recommend 500-800 Wrms for power a single sub. Looks like this sub is pretty solid in a sealed box of 1.5 - 2.2 ft^3. These smaller boxes still produce strong, deep lows, but good SPL at 80-100 Hz as well.
These are a whole bunch cheaper than a Brahma 15 too. I think you have found a winner here.
Swez
palmquist on 05/16/2005 23:34:51
great to hear... thnx guys... i know but the only problem is that they are only that cheap for a lil bit until they get the new motors in which wont be XBL^2... also swez one reason they mite be similar is because "We also pay a royalty directly to Adire Audio for every driver that we produce for the use of this technology. "....so i do think i will get these and as soon as i do i will tell u how they sound, also ill tell u what amp im using in case u kno of a better one that would make them sound even better... but my friend is getting me a deal on a audiobahn a8002t and i cant pass this deal up for being basically new
swez on 05/17/2005 00:42:45
The XBL^2 technology is sweet! You get more excursion, less distortion with that patented feature. By all means, get the one with XBL^2 technology at that price.... $300.00 is real good for a 15" sub of that power rating.
Also, with that amp choice, use need 1 Avalanche 15, wired in series to a bridged amp. That nets a perfect 4 ohms. In a 2.2ft^3 box, that puppy should sound great.
Swez
palmquist on 05/18/2005 17:34:45
actually rit enow they are running a deal on them because i guess they are getting rid of all the avalanches that have the XBL^2 motors... going for 225 a piece which is a great price...im getting 4 infinity perfect speakers...that should make the whole system sound really great... any ideas for a deck? i have 2 cars and i already put my previous deck into my car (with a sealed enclosure for SQ)... now i have a wrangler that i want a system in (hence im getting the avalanche, and audiobhn amp). i was thinking because it was a wrangler that a ported enclosure would sound better since i have the room compared to my actual car..which doesnt have the room i need but o well.
now that im getting one of these my friend has been looking into them... rite now i think he has 2 15 atlas but im not sure... say he was to get 1 15 avalanche wut would he need to power them? should i tell him to get the same amp... or are there any better options out there for this sub?
swez on 05/19/2005 09:14:48
HU's.... Alpine, Kenwood and Pioneer all have solid product offerings at all price ranges and features. JVC and Blaupunkt also have some solid products too. However, Blau is a bit of an oddball when it come to wiring harnesses and such.
As for a single 2+2 DVC Avalanche, you have 2 options:
1. Use a Class D amp that is stable at 1 ohm
2. Can also use a 2 channel amp in bridged mode
The amp power for a Class D, should be close to 800 Wrms @ 1 ohm loads. If usind a 2 channel amp, it needs to produce same wattage into a 4 ohm load when bridged.
NOTE: A 2 channel amp (full range) will draw notably more current to produce the same wattage output to the sub as it uses Class A/B circuit. Figure the 2 channel will need about 25-30% more amperage for same output power as a Class D sub amp.
Swez
Victor on 05/19/2005 15:11:15
Would Just like to add another names to the HU's List.
Eclipse and Clarion, some panasonics and Nakamichi of-course.
Victor...
palmquist on 05/21/2005 20:38:20
as for the enclosure... i wanted to build my own, just bc im a hands on type of guy...i would like to get creative when buiding but just for some basic tips are there ne sort of designs i should stay away from or are there ne that i should favor more? i dont kno how well a pyramid shaped box would sound but thats wut i was going for...not positive tho. how do i tune a box.. cuz i wanted to tune it for 29 hz for the avalanche. ne thing else i mite want to know b4 starting this?
also ne ideas for finishing touches... i was thinking about making the box out of 3/4 MDF and then seal all the gaps on the inside and then on teh outside over it with bondo and polish that up and then paint it... or even mix the paint with the bondo for a different look....ne other neat shapes or designs that u guys can think of would be great... and it would be even beter if u had tried some of them out or at least heard them...
how about this for an idea... ok you have an M and u lay it down flat... now u have the 2 legs pointing at you... u put 2 ports in where the legs go... u then put teh sub between the legs where they join to form a 'V'
i have another question, in theory wouldnt a sphere be a good enlcosure...dont quote me on that i was just thinking of shapes and that came to mind
Victor on 05/21/2005 20:57:39
Theoritically a Perfect sphere is the most ideal enclosure for a speaker, cause a perfect sphere eliminates all the possible standing waves created from the rear of the speaker cone.
It is a difficult task and a rare few have been able to do it, if you can it wud be great, but making and finishing a perfect sphere is surely a tough job to do.
avoid a square shape.
If you like experimenting with various shapes its really good, but u will have to face a few faliures before u master the art of innovation in making enclosures.
If you wish to play safe then go for a rectangular (cuboid) ported enclosure as per the specs of the sub-manufacturer.
Experimenting with different kind of enclosures should be aimed more at sound rather than its looks.
Victor..
I believe a few of us have great amount of experience in making enclosures, a few go by the rule book and a few deviate a bit for the sake of innovation. I am sure guys here will guide you through it in the best manner possible.
If you got some good ideas in mind you can try putting them on a visual level and send it to me, i can go throuh it and add some of my creativeness and improvise so that you can get the best of sound with the best of looks possible.
Plan before u start building it, build it a 100 times in your imagination before touching the wood, Dont overlook the basics of wood working they will be very useful in ensuring a strong box and your safety.
There are always going to be a few agrees-disagrees because box building in some regions is controversial and many people believe and practice different from others. but till the results are positive everything is accepted.
I got a few very different and innovative designs with me, but some of which will require a great amount of space and are more useful in HT applications.
Draw as many sketches as you can, select a few and then impose the space restrictions , this will eliminate a few, then look at the construction part,,, what is easier to build , what will be stronger,,?
i believe only 3-4 designs will stay, then you should try to argue the basics of speaker enclosure and sound, what will sound better?? why?? how?? read as much as you can about enclosures and sound.. ask questions to experts here and on other forums.
After this i think u will be left with a last 2 and then you can select which ever one u like more (aesthetically)..
And there you have satisfaction of building a great looking enclosure which sounds great too.
Ask any help if you need,,
Victor..
palmquist on 05/21/2005 21:29:43
great... thnx man! i had a few good ideas just for fun to practice with building a perfect sphere.. quite simple ideas but they mite work.
1. buy a bouncy ball (kick ball), you kno the tyedye ones u can get at walmart or kmart...wrap it up in plastic...and then fiberglass away.. once dried, take a dremel or rotozip and cut down the middle... take the ball out and then fiberglass the 2 back together
2. build it out of wood... as hard as it sounds, its possible... i have never done anything like this but i have a lot of friends that kno how to do projects similar...they have built cups and bowls out of wood... and from the looks of it, it looks like they take a few strips of wood and bend it somehow and then glue them together. and im not just talkgin about carving cups and bowls, they actually have pieces to it
im guessing the first way is better for me, since i have actually used fiberglass and not bent wood.. but just some ideas for ppl that also have thought about building this... and who knows maybe if i get good i can be the only person to manufacture sherical boxes... well not boxes, but enclosures
ap
Victor on 05/21/2005 21:47:20
Can I have your email id, I can send you a few ideas for a sphere..
Victor..
PS. I am leaving for a neighboruing city in a couple of hours, shall be back on tuesday, Wont be able to reply till then but shall think and work on it in free time and update you on wednesday.
palmquist on 05/22/2005 22:14:31
yea sure... that would be great if u could send me some ideas..
atvboardracer39@aol.com
palmquist on 05/27/2005 00:21:58
anybody know any information on building wooden spheres? or have any experience? also.... how would i go about puting them in my trunk if then are a sphere? i have a few ideas but i just want ot see wut ppl put first
also.. i ordered my avalanche... should be coming in JUNE! im happy im getting one.. but im so anxious bc its takign so long o well....
palmquist
Victor on 05/27/2005 01:41:32
Hey,
I am back, sorry it took me so long, I was held up with some social work.
I got your e-mail, shall send you a few idea's soon.
Once again i shall tell you , its really tough to fabricate a sphere of the size for a 15" sub, its a matter to be re-thought.
Also it depends a lot on the Material you use.
If you have access to a huge block of wood, then at first you can cut it into a 25"x25"x25" cube. Then you can slowly chisel the outer side into a ball of 24" diameter. Then you will need to cut out the sphere at a section where you can get a 15" sector for the Sub to fit.
now you will have a solid cut ball, you will need to care fully carve out the interior of the ball so that the thickness of the wood remains same everywhere. You can sand the inner and the outer part to smoothen it , then drill a hole right through the centre of the back side for the wire.
Now for installing this thing, you wont be able to install a ball, cause then it shall roll away. hehe , you will need to flatten some part from the outside so that it stays stable.
Will mail you a drawing for this.. Hey. i really gotta hurry now to the office get back to you later.
Victor...
PS. This is just one of the ways you can do it., so if it looks tough we can consider a few other ways too.
swez on 05/27/2005 09:12:24
Can make a "cradle" to hold the sphere in place as well. Should be anchored in the vehicle so it cannot move around too.
Fabrication of a sphere on that size in wood will not only be expensive, it will also be very heavy and very labor intensive. Can laminate sheets of MDF together, tool them to proper internal dimensions and then glue the halves together one all tooling is done. Fabricating a sub mounting system will also be a big challenge for fiberglass and bondo work.
Care to try a sonic tube design here? Sonotube makes concrete forming tubes in various lengths and diameters. They are made of heavy cardboard and can be very strong, yet compact too. Can make sealed or ported designs this way as well. I have seen several "pillar" style designs in the Adire website links in the past. The nice thing about round tubes, they are very efficient at bass reproduction and have cylindrical sides for perfect wave propagation.
Consider it...
Swez
Victor on 05/27/2005 10:34:11
Yes , you should consider other forms of enclosures too..
palmquist on 05/27/2005 23:26:59
i understand itll be hard... but if it can be done then i at least want to give it a try... as long as it doesnt cost too much... or require an unreasonable amount of time
i like the fiberglass idea i had, since it would be lighter and more accurate than me trying to carve the middle of a cube... wut i was thinkgin is that i could, since it would be REALLY hard to mount the sub to a sphere... y not just make a hemisphere? dont kno if it would sound the same or as good but i kno it would be easier
thanks for all your help
Victor on 05/28/2005 01:36:06
just try to calculate the inner volume of a 15" diameter hemisphere.. and compare it with the volume the manufacturer suggests for a sealed enclosure and you will understand.
Victor.
PS. The formula for the volume of a hemisphere is 2/3*pi*( r )cubed.
Since the mounting diameter of that 15" would be somewhere near 14" lets consider the radius ( r ) = 7".
hence 2/3 * 3.14 * 343 = 718 cu in. = 0.415 cu ft
now thats not even half of the volume the manufacturer suggests for a sealed enclosure..
This sub needs a 2.2 cu ft enclosure of a sealed system, can you imagine what size of a sphere you would need to meet the volume requirements.
You get my point..?
palmquist on 05/28/2005 02:12:13
victor... you make a good point... now on to plan B
since plan A was totally demolished, we have to come up with another idea equivelent to or greater than taht of which was our original plan... how about a cool plexiglass design that sounds incredible... im up to it, i just need to kno wut shape usually gives the best sound or wut would give the best sound in the situation with the information given
Victor on 05/28/2005 02:32:18
The Sonotube design that swez suggested is a good option,
If you want a Plexi Glass enclosure then you dont have much options other then a rectangular box ( cuboid ), 15" x 15" x 17" internal dimensions.
Avoid square boxes ( cubes ).
Here is a design which has worked well for me in many many occassions, Its derived from the basis of Bandpass and Horn loaded enclosures, but is highly modified and simplified to an extent where it makes you think its nothing but a box in a box. This one has given really good results in hatchbacks.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/victorginger/detail?.dir=6a70&.dnm=54d4.jpg&.src=ph
The shape and dimensions my differ in you case.
Victor...
swez on 05/28/2005 10:12:03
Think about innovation, but balance it with fabrication time, cost and availability of materials.
The Sonotube is a well respected design that works!
1. Cost of the tube is minimal
2. Can be glassed for better appearance & strength
3. Pretty compact at say 18" dia.
4. Easily ported on rear or front insert baffle
5. Light weight, but strong
Here's a link to help calculate internal volume. It's a calculator for cylindrical enclosures. Use 18" as dia., .250" thickness and plug in various "H" numbers until you get to the proper cf.
I came up with:
Dia: 18"
Height: 16.5"
Thickness: .250" (1/4")
The gross internal volume here is 2.227 cf. Will have to make one a bit longer though once you calculate: (add ins)
a. Woofer displacement
b. End caps displacements (18" dia @ 3/4" back panel) + (front baffle)
c. Internal support rings displacement (if needed)
d. Mounting ring displacement
e. Port displacement
http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/boxcalcs.asp
OR
http://grapevine.abe.msstate.edu/~fto/tools/vol/cylinder.html
Swez
palmquist on 05/30/2005 00:44:36
i had a few ideas about building enclosures and instead of trying to explain them all and get the wrong idea in your heads, i went ahead and make a really quick little free website (i only put the pictures in, i didnt write any of the other stuff... i was too lazy to erase it) .......please check it out and give your opinions on any of them... thats basically wut i want
http://www.palmqaudio.freewebtools.com/photo.html
palmQ
swez on 05/30/2005 11:31:10
Kinda like the image I'll call #6. It's the dual sub, dual ported, subs firing out opposing sides. Expect this one to be a very large enclosure.
As a space saver design #3, the Isobaric/ported design has merit. A bit less efficient perhaps, but with proper tuning, that could be a winner too. As I look at the porting arrangements on this design, am wondering how these ports will interact with each other. It appears to be more like a push/pull cone and port configuration.
Let's get some opinions from Victor and Kittle. They may have some good comments for you too.
Swez
Victor on 05/30/2005 12:04:33
Ok, lets number the pics starting from left to right.
Pic 1 - This is a 6th order bandpass, very efficient at lower frequencies, Extremely hard to tune, A big box, Poor power handling and transient response, these types are generally used in HT systems of Multimedia systems where sound reinforcement of extreme low freqs is desired. A very hard to tune system. A beginner is bound to fail here. That doesnt mean that u give up on it, but usually these are avoided in Car Audio simply because of the size. orelse its a good SPL machine.
Pic 2 - This seems a baseless design , from what i see both the subs will suck onto each other and there is no space from where the air and sound will get into the listening area.
Pic 3 - A 4th order Isobaric design, efficient and can handle good power, hard to fabricate and even harder to tune, usually these kinds of systems are used when more drivers are desired to be used in a limited space, use of a SS filter becomes inevitable here. This is just the basic, but from what u have designed it still requires a lot of rethinking and detailing according to the space available, driver properties and Amp specs.( Those ports you have used are too thin, will give a lot of port noise )
Pic 4 - This is simply a folded port enclosure, these have good response on the lower freq ends, but the trade off would be poor power handling and extreme poor transient responses, This kind of a system would be helpful incase you want to enclose a Free Air Optimised sub, for regular subs this design cud be a disaster.
Pic 5 - This is a mixed breed of Horn & 4th order bandpass, where you got a rear sealed chamber , a compression chamber, an expansion chamber and the mouth of the horn is replaced by the ports, This one would work out well if you are able to tune it properly, again this one would be a big box and hard to tune, it will give you considerable sire in SPL say 5-10db's near the tuning freq, efficient for SPL performances but the trade of would be a huge bump near the tuning freq which would not be desired in a SQ system.
Pic 6 - this one is a neat one, Ported enclosure, here the use of SS filter is desired, you can get a rise of 3db's in a ported design over the sealed enclosure, Not comparable to a sealed enclosure on the fron tof Power handling, yet a very well known type of system in the Car audio world, also easy to fabricate and tune.If you dont wanna take any chances and dont feel like loosing on your first attempt then first try a sealed enclosure of a ported one.
Type 7 - Seems to be just a piece of Graphic Art.
Not trying to discourage you, keep on going , but before you let you imagination run wild i suggest you clear the basics of sub woofer systems, a proper understanding along with the creative and imaginative mind you got will really work well for you.
Victor...
Victor on 05/30/2005 16:32:10
Ok.. i got something more to add about those designs..
Pic 2 - The subs are gonna kill each other,without producing audible sound.
Pic 4 - Here it seems you have ported the front as well as the rear with the same port length and dimensions, this will not get you anywhere... you will get a BIG time delay in the -ve as well as the +ve phase, most of the times the idea of Porting is used so that the sound waves emerging from the rear of the sub reinforces those from the front. But here since both the rear as well as front are ported in exactly the similar fashion, i see very ver muddy bass and with a HUGE time delay which is never desired in any kind of system. The sound from this already sounds like a disaster.
I really dont mean to discourage you, you are good at innovation, and enthusiactic, you just need to Tame the wild horse.
I would really like to know what Kittle and Lessismore read on this.
Victor..
PS. Dave wassup with life ol' man? havent heard from you or tego since long.
Victor on 05/31/2005 10:40:38
swez on 05/31/2005 11:09:11
Have been caring for 2 sick parents of late and a pair of fouled up computers.
1. Mom just got home from a 2 week stay in the hospital (doing much better now, just very weak) Kidney failure, double pneumonia, congestive heart failure, all in 2 weeks time. Glad she pulled through OK!
2. Pops is going down now with some kind of infection (he loses his balance a lot) Took him to the doctor's last week, results on blood tests etc., pending this week.
3. Both computers got whacked with "bugs". Had to reformat both and start fresh. Seems like neither of my computers like Win XP Service pack #2. Some kind of compatibility issues with a few software packages I use.... TuneUp Utilities 2004 and AVG Anti-vir.
Other than that, looking for a new job on top of all this other chaos. Basically, life is pretty normal again, now that my folks came back from Florida. hehehe
Life is just a peach bowl of fun dude!
Swez
PS Tego has been busy with Workman's Comp issues via his lawyer. Will let him splain it to ya.
palmquist on 05/31/2005 18:23:52
sorry to hear about your folks swez... i dont kno u very well, but ill keep them in my prayers for ya... best of luck to them getting better
thnx for the constructive criticism Victor.... thats exactly wut i want... see these were just a few ideas that were on my head and didnt kno if they have already been tried and just wanted some input... ill post more up there a little later.... some of them i was actually trying to make a good design, and others i was just being creative.....in a way i was trying to make a enclosure that hasnt been tried yet..to anyones knowledge at least... and make a good one while doing it.....im sure all the possible ways of make an enclsoure have been thought about or made and really doesnt leave a whole lot of room for invention...
i just want to kno a few of the basics for a good enclosure...and want to kno how u can tell just by looking at those if it will work or not by cancelling out or w.e is wrong....i have some dreams to be a builder, but everyone knows u have to start somewhere... so y not start from the best, ehh??
basically i just need to kno a few hints to get me started so im not wasting my time on drawings that i kno wont work.... u catch my drift?? well... im out, gotta go to slowpitch softball practice!! yay- its fun u ppl should look into it.... basically a HR derby for me!! :) maybe ill beat my record and hit 6 HR's at practice tonite lol
palmQ
Victor on 06/1/2005 04:18:05
Hey dave, i sleep early now so its really difficult to catch you guys online. anyways i hope your parents are doing well now, and you yourself are doing well too. I have never been old but i guess it must be really tough to take care of old folks when you yourself are getting old.
palmQ, thanks you took those crits +vely,
I was much like you when i first took a passion for car audio, raw and wild, but gradually i trained myself and organised my imagination. This site and people here have really really helped me more than anyone else to develop my skills, and also be a better person.
You should stay on here and ask as many questions as you feel even if you feel they are stupid.
Regarding Sub-Enclosures here are a few links which can help you understand the basics of Enclosure selection and designing.
http://www.diysubwoofers.org./
http://subbox.net/store/catalog/Want-to-build-your-own-box-sp-1.html
Got many more links, I am also writing an article on SubWoofers, but i guess for the beginning the above links have enough information for your use, shall update you with the article and other links later.
Hope that helps.
Victor...
Victor on 06/1/2005 04:22:01
There may not be even the slightest space for INVENTION but there sure is a whole lot of space for INNOVATION. THINK
swez on 06/1/2005 09:49:44
Thanks guys... appreciate your concerns and prayers regarding my parents. Have been marshaling things to keep on top of their mutual health concerns on track. More like a personal, medical and PT assistant these past few days.
Mom is gaining speed and endurance will be her challenges the next 12 weeks or so. Gotta figure out a way to "motivate her" to get off the couch and away from the TV set. She gets PT visits 3X/week now. It's going well and hopefully, she'll venture out and do more activities as she is able.
Pops is now a primary focus. He's been under so much mental, physical and emotional stress the past month, now his body is showing signs of being depleated. Fortunately, his bride is now home and we are working with a few docs to figure out what him immediate situational needs are. Could be as simple as a urinary tract infection or as complex as kidney stones or prostrate cancer. More tests pending this week and next.
===================================================
PQ, when designing a woofer enclosure, think of the project as a sound wave pressure generator. Here, we target long sound waves as that what bass is all about. The enclosure design needs to incorporate enough back pressure to maintain cone stability at low frequencies and porting ducts that help focus sound waves in a given frequency range. (30 - 100 Hz.) Bandpass designs and folded horns do a very good job at both, when matched to a given woofer specs.
There is a lot of physics, air pressure management and frequency enhancements that are incorporated into useful bass reinforcement system designs. The trick is to multiply low frequency output in a managable enclosure size.
When looking at a given design, think of the air a woofer must move like water from a large diameter pipe. There has to be a retention pond to store energy, (the sealed enclosure part) a pump to amplify or compound the stored energy, (the sub(s) is/are the pump(s)) and the port(s) are the outlets that channel the energy out of the system.
This is where port tuning is so critical. The port(s) have to be large enough to allow the air to flow freely through them and of the proper area (length and diameter) to tune or focus the pressure without adding noise and long enough to delay the sound wave enough to be in phase with the output of the sub(s) cone output. That's how we get the multiplication factor. (efficiency of the design) It's really a scientific process of complex math and physics. Not just asthetics. If you have a stong background in math & physics, this will be much easier to map out usable enclosure designs. Otherwise, it's hit or miss.
I think there are several good websites out there on enclosure design to browse. We also have a few good DIY articles on this site to whet your appitite. Victor and Kittle have done a good amount of design research on such topics and can guide you to some of the technical resources they used as well. Am sure there are many books available to guide you as well. Just remember that size of the woofer and enclosures that will fit into car audio formats, are somewhat a new phenom. Most books and such are targeted toward larger HT and Pro sound reinforcement properties. These designs are much larger than can be used in typical car audio applications.
Hope that helps,
Swez
palmquist on 06/2/2005 19:25:36
i finally got to it and posted some new pictures on my website.... i tried thinking more logical and actually put water in place of sound when designing these to see if it would "flow" well... these make a little more sense then the other ones and hopefully are better
the site again is www.palmqaudio.freewebtools.com
palmQ
p.s.- i made a logo for my site on the home page.... not too nice i kno but Paint is all i have to work with (as u can probably tell with my previous pics, hehe), but i didnt write anything so dont bother reading
Victor on 06/3/2005 03:02:27
PalmQ I guess you gonna be bashed again..hehe..
Well, looking at these new pictures makes it very apparent that you have not read enough about Sub-enclosures.Actually it makes me feel that you have not tried or done any kind of research on Sub-enclosures.
Believe me a proper understanding of Acoustics and Sub-enclosure theories are the only things that can help you out.
If I keep on commenting on each and every desing of yours it will take a long time for you to realise how it should be done, instead its better you read as much as possible and try taming your vivid and imaginative mind.
Please gimme ur yahoo or MSN chat messenger id, I will be able to explain you about this only on real time basis.
Victor...
PS.
My yahoo id - victorginger@yahoo.com
My MSN id - victorexports@hotmail.com
swez on 06/3/2005 09:47:39
Agreed... there are no shortcuts to excellent enclosure designs. It takes a lot of research, reading what others have tried and learning the sometime complex acoustics, math & physics that are incorporated into a well designed enclosure.
Am enjoying your creativity and imagination on various designs, but they are not useful substitutes for a solid background in acoustics. Start simple... read whatever you can on the basic design characteristics of sealed, ported & vented enclosures. Once one has a solid grasp on how the sub interacts with these basic designs, then one can move into more complex designs like the folded horn, acoustical labyrith and bandpass enclosures.
The sealed and ported enclosures are the key building blocks to a well designed sub enclosure. Once those are well grafted into the mind, arranging them to work in more complex designs will come later.
Swez
PS Gotta love a good graphic artist. (Creatives) But, these skills need to be harnessed by the fundamentals of the tried and true acoustical engineering.
palmquist on 06/3/2005 23:32:33
the funny thing is, u guys are going to laugh, is that i have done my reading lol... o well i guess i can always do ALOT more by the sounds of it :D, sounds like i REALLY need it too... i must just be a very slow learner if they look that bad... ur rite tho... too much CREATIVITY, not enough LOGICALITY.... sry im wasting ur time... but wen my mind gets going it is hard to harness it and stop it... i ddint even show u ALL of them either, and boy am i glad- i woulda got worked on some of those i can tell already without the assistance of either of you (not that it goes unappreciated, im just saying that they are very "wild" designs lol... but maybe for laughs ill put them up there for u, maybe i should take down some of teh others :D ) neway thanks again... ur rite i prolly do need a lot more knowledge, but i did read and my first 4 enclosures turned out pretty well if i do say so myself... performance and looks... but they were all sealed, which isnt too difficult
palmQ
p.s.- i wont post ne more up there until i kno it makes sense! saves some of your time and ALOT of mine... lol, but ill leave the ones already up there for kicks and giggles in case ur bored searching the web and need a quick laugh
palmquist on 06/3/2005 23:38:27
o ya almost forgot.... AIM sn is palmquist46........sorry victor i dont kno if it makes a difference... like yahoo can only talk to yahoo ppl.. or MSN to MSN, u kno wut i mean
i dont have either MSN or yahoo
my aol is atvboardracer39@aol.com in case u wanna send an email
swez on 06/5/2005 11:00:12
Hey PQ,
OK, loaded AIM and my screen name there is "swezdp". Does AIM have a voice chat feature as well? Also, what are the best times to catch you on AIM? (consider the time zones... mine is EDT)
Swez
palmquist on 06/5/2005 18:54:32
great... i think it does have voice chat, but i dont have a mic., i dont mind typing if you dont... sorry i have the real "basics" over here wen it comes to computers and all.... i have 2 days left til school is out, and have to study for tests, as well as play softball, and keep up a job... so i wont be on for the next 2 days very much.... but on average during the summer u can catch me at around 9(PM)-early morning usually... so about 10(PM)-early morning your time.... that is probably when im on the most... but if u go to bed early or like to sleep then im flexible and can get on wenever is good for u (for the most part)
palmQ
swez on 06/6/2005 07:37:24
What's your GMT time? Mine is -04 hrs., GMT
Swez
palmquist on 06/6/2005 16:41:07
(GMT -06:00) Central Time (US & Canada)...
im thinking about getting a pair or just one 15 avalanche... im just curious to see what peoples opinions are on them... and also if anyone has one them can u tell wut u are using as far as enclsoure and amp
another reason these look so nice to me rite now is because of the price...
Replies (42)
Tinker18 on 05/14/2005 18:22:52
do you have a link to the sub or any specs on the sub. need more info to work with here. thanks.
-KP
palmquist on 05/15/2005 22:39:18
http://www.ascendantaudio.com/archive/Avalanche%2015.htm
thats the site.. here are a few specs
Fs 15.7 Hz
Qms 3.5
Qes .334
Qts .305
Vas 300.6 L
Re 3.2 ohms
Znom* 4 ohms
Xmax 27 mm
Sd 749 cm2
Mms 269 g
Vd 4.04 L
Pnom 800 watts
Le 2.4 mH
Cutout 14.125"
Diameter 15.5"
Depth 7.875"
Weight 37 pounds
*dual 2 ohm coils in series
compvr15s on 05/16/2005 02:41:54
i have contacted this company since i only live a few hrs away, i was going to go preview the sub, for the price i dont see why not to go for it, 27mm xmax should move some serious air, here is a link to some vids and pics on this brand http://www.woofervids.com/thumbnails.php?album=77
i have yet to make it to the windy city and check them out but i have read many reviews and havent heard anything bad about them.... only think i dont like is that i dont think they come in dual 4 ohm, wiring on them is rather strange only wire one coil, the other is for another purpose, but the power handling is low which is good if your on a budget, either need 1omh stable or 4 ohm amp, 1 omh = mono class d amp. if you go 4 ohm then a 2 channel amp will probably deliver that power at 4 ohms, takes a big class d amp to get 800 or so watts at 4 ohms, just my two cents but i have been really looking into these woofers, if you do go ahead and get these, please inform us on these, i would like to know what ya think about them,
swez on 05/16/2005 10:51:24
That Avalanche subs looks very similar to the Brahma series products from Adire Audio. Is a 2+2 DVC configuration and they recommend 500-800 Wrms for power a single sub. Looks like this sub is pretty solid in a sealed box of 1.5 - 2.2 ft^3. These smaller boxes still produce strong, deep lows, but good SPL at 80-100 Hz as well.
These are a whole bunch cheaper than a Brahma 15 too. I think you have found a winner here.
Swez
palmquist on 05/16/2005 23:34:51
great to hear... thnx guys... i know but the only problem is that they are only that cheap for a lil bit until they get the new motors in which wont be XBL^2... also swez one reason they mite be similar is because "We also pay a royalty directly to Adire Audio for every driver that we produce for the use of this technology. "....so i do think i will get these and as soon as i do i will tell u how they sound, also ill tell u what amp im using in case u kno of a better one that would make them sound even better... but my friend is getting me a deal on a audiobahn a8002t and i cant pass this deal up for being basically new
swez on 05/17/2005 00:42:45
The XBL^2 technology is sweet! You get more excursion, less distortion with that patented feature. By all means, get the one with XBL^2 technology at that price.... $300.00 is real good for a 15" sub of that power rating.
Also, with that amp choice, use need 1 Avalanche 15, wired in series to a bridged amp. That nets a perfect 4 ohms. In a 2.2ft^3 box, that puppy should sound great.
Swez
palmquist on 05/18/2005 17:34:45
actually rit enow they are running a deal on them because i guess they are getting rid of all the avalanches that have the XBL^2 motors... going for 225 a piece which is a great price...im getting 4 infinity perfect speakers...that should make the whole system sound really great... any ideas for a deck? i have 2 cars and i already put my previous deck into my car (with a sealed enclosure for SQ)... now i have a wrangler that i want a system in (hence im getting the avalanche, and audiobhn amp). i was thinking because it was a wrangler that a ported enclosure would sound better since i have the room compared to my actual car..which doesnt have the room i need but o well.
now that im getting one of these my friend has been looking into them... rite now i think he has 2 15 atlas but im not sure... say he was to get 1 15 avalanche wut would he need to power them? should i tell him to get the same amp... or are there any better options out there for this sub?
swez on 05/19/2005 09:14:48
HU's.... Alpine, Kenwood and Pioneer all have solid product offerings at all price ranges and features. JVC and Blaupunkt also have some solid products too. However, Blau is a bit of an oddball when it come to wiring harnesses and such.
As for a single 2+2 DVC Avalanche, you have 2 options:
1. Use a Class D amp that is stable at 1 ohm
2. Can also use a 2 channel amp in bridged mode
The amp power for a Class D, should be close to 800 Wrms @ 1 ohm loads. If usind a 2 channel amp, it needs to produce same wattage into a 4 ohm load when bridged.
NOTE: A 2 channel amp (full range) will draw notably more current to produce the same wattage output to the sub as it uses Class A/B circuit. Figure the 2 channel will need about 25-30% more amperage for same output power as a Class D sub amp.
Swez
Victor on 05/19/2005 15:11:15
Would Just like to add another names to the HU's List.
Eclipse and Clarion, some panasonics and Nakamichi of-course.
Victor...
palmquist on 05/21/2005 20:38:20
as for the enclosure... i wanted to build my own, just bc im a hands on type of guy...i would like to get creative when buiding but just for some basic tips are there ne sort of designs i should stay away from or are there ne that i should favor more? i dont kno how well a pyramid shaped box would sound but thats wut i was going for...not positive tho. how do i tune a box.. cuz i wanted to tune it for 29 hz for the avalanche. ne thing else i mite want to know b4 starting this?
also ne ideas for finishing touches... i was thinking about making the box out of 3/4 MDF and then seal all the gaps on the inside and then on teh outside over it with bondo and polish that up and then paint it... or even mix the paint with the bondo for a different look....ne other neat shapes or designs that u guys can think of would be great... and it would be even beter if u had tried some of them out or at least heard them...
how about this for an idea... ok you have an M and u lay it down flat... now u have the 2 legs pointing at you... u put 2 ports in where the legs go... u then put teh sub between the legs where they join to form a 'V'
i have another question, in theory wouldnt a sphere be a good enlcosure...dont quote me on that i was just thinking of shapes and that came to mind
Victor on 05/21/2005 20:57:39
Theoritically a Perfect sphere is the most ideal enclosure for a speaker, cause a perfect sphere eliminates all the possible standing waves created from the rear of the speaker cone.
It is a difficult task and a rare few have been able to do it, if you can it wud be great, but making and finishing a perfect sphere is surely a tough job to do.
avoid a square shape.
If you like experimenting with various shapes its really good, but u will have to face a few faliures before u master the art of innovation in making enclosures.
If you wish to play safe then go for a rectangular (cuboid) ported enclosure as per the specs of the sub-manufacturer.
Experimenting with different kind of enclosures should be aimed more at sound rather than its looks.
Victor..
I believe a few of us have great amount of experience in making enclosures, a few go by the rule book and a few deviate a bit for the sake of innovation. I am sure guys here will guide you through it in the best manner possible.
If you got some good ideas in mind you can try putting them on a visual level and send it to me, i can go throuh it and add some of my creativeness and improvise so that you can get the best of sound with the best of looks possible.
Plan before u start building it, build it a 100 times in your imagination before touching the wood, Dont overlook the basics of wood working they will be very useful in ensuring a strong box and your safety.
There are always going to be a few agrees-disagrees because box building in some regions is controversial and many people believe and practice different from others. but till the results are positive everything is accepted.
I got a few very different and innovative designs with me, but some of which will require a great amount of space and are more useful in HT applications.
Draw as many sketches as you can, select a few and then impose the space restrictions , this will eliminate a few, then look at the construction part,,, what is easier to build , what will be stronger,,?
i believe only 3-4 designs will stay, then you should try to argue the basics of speaker enclosure and sound, what will sound better?? why?? how?? read as much as you can about enclosures and sound.. ask questions to experts here and on other forums.
After this i think u will be left with a last 2 and then you can select which ever one u like more (aesthetically)..
And there you have satisfaction of building a great looking enclosure which sounds great too.
Ask any help if you need,,
Victor..
palmquist on 05/21/2005 21:29:43
great... thnx man! i had a few good ideas just for fun to practice with building a perfect sphere.. quite simple ideas but they mite work.
1. buy a bouncy ball (kick ball), you kno the tyedye ones u can get at walmart or kmart...wrap it up in plastic...and then fiberglass away.. once dried, take a dremel or rotozip and cut down the middle... take the ball out and then fiberglass the 2 back together
2. build it out of wood... as hard as it sounds, its possible... i have never done anything like this but i have a lot of friends that kno how to do projects similar...they have built cups and bowls out of wood... and from the looks of it, it looks like they take a few strips of wood and bend it somehow and then glue them together. and im not just talkgin about carving cups and bowls, they actually have pieces to it
im guessing the first way is better for me, since i have actually used fiberglass and not bent wood.. but just some ideas for ppl that also have thought about building this... and who knows maybe if i get good i can be the only person to manufacture sherical boxes... well not boxes, but enclosures
ap
Victor on 05/21/2005 21:47:20
Can I have your email id, I can send you a few ideas for a sphere..
Victor..
PS. I am leaving for a neighboruing city in a couple of hours, shall be back on tuesday, Wont be able to reply till then but shall think and work on it in free time and update you on wednesday.
palmquist on 05/22/2005 22:14:31
yea sure... that would be great if u could send me some ideas..
atvboardracer39@aol.com
palmquist on 05/27/2005 00:21:58
anybody know any information on building wooden spheres? or have any experience? also.... how would i go about puting them in my trunk if then are a sphere? i have a few ideas but i just want ot see wut ppl put first
also.. i ordered my avalanche... should be coming in JUNE! im happy im getting one.. but im so anxious bc its takign so long o well....
palmquist
Victor on 05/27/2005 01:41:32
Hey,
I am back, sorry it took me so long, I was held up with some social work.
I got your e-mail, shall send you a few idea's soon.
Once again i shall tell you , its really tough to fabricate a sphere of the size for a 15" sub, its a matter to be re-thought.
Also it depends a lot on the Material you use.
If you have access to a huge block of wood, then at first you can cut it into a 25"x25"x25" cube. Then you can slowly chisel the outer side into a ball of 24" diameter. Then you will need to cut out the sphere at a section where you can get a 15" sector for the Sub to fit.
now you will have a solid cut ball, you will need to care fully carve out the interior of the ball so that the thickness of the wood remains same everywhere. You can sand the inner and the outer part to smoothen it , then drill a hole right through the centre of the back side for the wire.
Now for installing this thing, you wont be able to install a ball, cause then it shall roll away. hehe , you will need to flatten some part from the outside so that it stays stable.
Will mail you a drawing for this.. Hey. i really gotta hurry now to the office get back to you later.
Victor...
PS. This is just one of the ways you can do it., so if it looks tough we can consider a few other ways too.
swez on 05/27/2005 09:12:24
Can make a "cradle" to hold the sphere in place as well. Should be anchored in the vehicle so it cannot move around too.
Fabrication of a sphere on that size in wood will not only be expensive, it will also be very heavy and very labor intensive. Can laminate sheets of MDF together, tool them to proper internal dimensions and then glue the halves together one all tooling is done. Fabricating a sub mounting system will also be a big challenge for fiberglass and bondo work.
Care to try a sonic tube design here? Sonotube makes concrete forming tubes in various lengths and diameters. They are made of heavy cardboard and can be very strong, yet compact too. Can make sealed or ported designs this way as well. I have seen several "pillar" style designs in the Adire website links in the past. The nice thing about round tubes, they are very efficient at bass reproduction and have cylindrical sides for perfect wave propagation.
Consider it...
Swez
Victor on 05/27/2005 10:34:11
Yes , you should consider other forms of enclosures too..
palmquist on 05/27/2005 23:26:59
i understand itll be hard... but if it can be done then i at least want to give it a try... as long as it doesnt cost too much... or require an unreasonable amount of time
i like the fiberglass idea i had, since it would be lighter and more accurate than me trying to carve the middle of a cube... wut i was thinkgin is that i could, since it would be REALLY hard to mount the sub to a sphere... y not just make a hemisphere? dont kno if it would sound the same or as good but i kno it would be easier
thanks for all your help
Victor on 05/28/2005 01:36:06
just try to calculate the inner volume of a 15" diameter hemisphere.. and compare it with the volume the manufacturer suggests for a sealed enclosure and you will understand.
Victor.
PS. The formula for the volume of a hemisphere is 2/3*pi*( r )cubed.
Since the mounting diameter of that 15" would be somewhere near 14" lets consider the radius ( r ) = 7".
hence 2/3 * 3.14 * 343 = 718 cu in. = 0.415 cu ft
now thats not even half of the volume the manufacturer suggests for a sealed enclosure..
This sub needs a 2.2 cu ft enclosure of a sealed system, can you imagine what size of a sphere you would need to meet the volume requirements.
You get my point..?
palmquist on 05/28/2005 02:12:13
victor... you make a good point... now on to plan B
since plan A was totally demolished, we have to come up with another idea equivelent to or greater than taht of which was our original plan... how about a cool plexiglass design that sounds incredible... im up to it, i just need to kno wut shape usually gives the best sound or wut would give the best sound in the situation with the information given
Victor on 05/28/2005 02:32:18
The Sonotube design that swez suggested is a good option,
If you want a Plexi Glass enclosure then you dont have much options other then a rectangular box ( cuboid ), 15" x 15" x 17" internal dimensions.
Avoid square boxes ( cubes ).
Here is a design which has worked well for me in many many occassions, Its derived from the basis of Bandpass and Horn loaded enclosures, but is highly modified and simplified to an extent where it makes you think its nothing but a box in a box. This one has given really good results in hatchbacks.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/victorginger/detail?.dir=6a70&.dnm=54d4.jpg&.src=ph
The shape and dimensions my differ in you case.
Victor...
swez on 05/28/2005 10:12:03
Think about innovation, but balance it with fabrication time, cost and availability of materials.
The Sonotube is a well respected design that works!
1. Cost of the tube is minimal
2. Can be glassed for better appearance & strength
3. Pretty compact at say 18" dia.
4. Easily ported on rear or front insert baffle
5. Light weight, but strong
Here's a link to help calculate internal volume. It's a calculator for cylindrical enclosures. Use 18" as dia., .250" thickness and plug in various "H" numbers until you get to the proper cf.
I came up with:
Dia: 18"
Height: 16.5"
Thickness: .250" (1/4")
The gross internal volume here is 2.227 cf. Will have to make one a bit longer though once you calculate: (add ins)
a. Woofer displacement
b. End caps displacements (18" dia @ 3/4" back panel) + (front baffle)
c. Internal support rings displacement (if needed)
d. Mounting ring displacement
e. Port displacement
http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/boxcalcs.asp
OR
http://grapevine.abe.msstate.edu/~fto/tools/vol/cylinder.html
Swez
palmquist on 05/30/2005 00:44:36
i had a few ideas about building enclosures and instead of trying to explain them all and get the wrong idea in your heads, i went ahead and make a really quick little free website (i only put the pictures in, i didnt write any of the other stuff... i was too lazy to erase it) .......please check it out and give your opinions on any of them... thats basically wut i want
http://www.palmqaudio.freewebtools.com/photo.html
palmQ
swez on 05/30/2005 11:31:10
Kinda like the image I'll call #6. It's the dual sub, dual ported, subs firing out opposing sides. Expect this one to be a very large enclosure.
As a space saver design #3, the Isobaric/ported design has merit. A bit less efficient perhaps, but with proper tuning, that could be a winner too. As I look at the porting arrangements on this design, am wondering how these ports will interact with each other. It appears to be more like a push/pull cone and port configuration.
Let's get some opinions from Victor and Kittle. They may have some good comments for you too.
Swez
Victor on 05/30/2005 12:04:33
Ok, lets number the pics starting from left to right.
Pic 1 - This is a 6th order bandpass, very efficient at lower frequencies, Extremely hard to tune, A big box, Poor power handling and transient response, these types are generally used in HT systems of Multimedia systems where sound reinforcement of extreme low freqs is desired. A very hard to tune system. A beginner is bound to fail here. That doesnt mean that u give up on it, but usually these are avoided in Car Audio simply because of the size. orelse its a good SPL machine.
Pic 2 - This seems a baseless design , from what i see both the subs will suck onto each other and there is no space from where the air and sound will get into the listening area.
Pic 3 - A 4th order Isobaric design, efficient and can handle good power, hard to fabricate and even harder to tune, usually these kinds of systems are used when more drivers are desired to be used in a limited space, use of a SS filter becomes inevitable here. This is just the basic, but from what u have designed it still requires a lot of rethinking and detailing according to the space available, driver properties and Amp specs.( Those ports you have used are too thin, will give a lot of port noise )
Pic 4 - This is simply a folded port enclosure, these have good response on the lower freq ends, but the trade off would be poor power handling and extreme poor transient responses, This kind of a system would be helpful incase you want to enclose a Free Air Optimised sub, for regular subs this design cud be a disaster.
Pic 5 - This is a mixed breed of Horn & 4th order bandpass, where you got a rear sealed chamber , a compression chamber, an expansion chamber and the mouth of the horn is replaced by the ports, This one would work out well if you are able to tune it properly, again this one would be a big box and hard to tune, it will give you considerable sire in SPL say 5-10db's near the tuning freq, efficient for SPL performances but the trade of would be a huge bump near the tuning freq which would not be desired in a SQ system.
Pic 6 - this one is a neat one, Ported enclosure, here the use of SS filter is desired, you can get a rise of 3db's in a ported design over the sealed enclosure, Not comparable to a sealed enclosure on the fron tof Power handling, yet a very well known type of system in the Car audio world, also easy to fabricate and tune.If you dont wanna take any chances and dont feel like loosing on your first attempt then first try a sealed enclosure of a ported one.
Type 7 - Seems to be just a piece of Graphic Art.
Not trying to discourage you, keep on going , but before you let you imagination run wild i suggest you clear the basics of sub woofer systems, a proper understanding along with the creative and imaginative mind you got will really work well for you.
Victor...
Victor on 05/30/2005 16:32:10
Ok.. i got something more to add about those designs..
Pic 2 - The subs are gonna kill each other,without producing audible sound.
Pic 4 - Here it seems you have ported the front as well as the rear with the same port length and dimensions, this will not get you anywhere... you will get a BIG time delay in the -ve as well as the +ve phase, most of the times the idea of Porting is used so that the sound waves emerging from the rear of the sub reinforces those from the front. But here since both the rear as well as front are ported in exactly the similar fashion, i see very ver muddy bass and with a HUGE time delay which is never desired in any kind of system. The sound from this already sounds like a disaster.
I really dont mean to discourage you, you are good at innovation, and enthusiactic, you just need to Tame the wild horse.
I would really like to know what Kittle and Lessismore read on this.
Victor..
PS. Dave wassup with life ol' man? havent heard from you or tego since long.
Victor on 05/31/2005 10:40:38
swez on 05/31/2005 11:09:11
Have been caring for 2 sick parents of late and a pair of fouled up computers.
1. Mom just got home from a 2 week stay in the hospital (doing much better now, just very weak) Kidney failure, double pneumonia, congestive heart failure, all in 2 weeks time. Glad she pulled through OK!
2. Pops is going down now with some kind of infection (he loses his balance a lot) Took him to the doctor's last week, results on blood tests etc., pending this week.
3. Both computers got whacked with "bugs". Had to reformat both and start fresh. Seems like neither of my computers like Win XP Service pack #2. Some kind of compatibility issues with a few software packages I use.... TuneUp Utilities 2004 and AVG Anti-vir.
Other than that, looking for a new job on top of all this other chaos. Basically, life is pretty normal again, now that my folks came back from Florida. hehehe
Life is just a peach bowl of fun dude!
Swez
PS Tego has been busy with Workman's Comp issues via his lawyer. Will let him splain it to ya.
palmquist on 05/31/2005 18:23:52
sorry to hear about your folks swez... i dont kno u very well, but ill keep them in my prayers for ya... best of luck to them getting better
thnx for the constructive criticism Victor.... thats exactly wut i want... see these were just a few ideas that were on my head and didnt kno if they have already been tried and just wanted some input... ill post more up there a little later.... some of them i was actually trying to make a good design, and others i was just being creative.....in a way i was trying to make a enclosure that hasnt been tried yet..to anyones knowledge at least... and make a good one while doing it.....im sure all the possible ways of make an enclsoure have been thought about or made and really doesnt leave a whole lot of room for invention...
i just want to kno a few of the basics for a good enclosure...and want to kno how u can tell just by looking at those if it will work or not by cancelling out or w.e is wrong....i have some dreams to be a builder, but everyone knows u have to start somewhere... so y not start from the best, ehh??
basically i just need to kno a few hints to get me started so im not wasting my time on drawings that i kno wont work.... u catch my drift?? well... im out, gotta go to slowpitch softball practice!! yay- its fun u ppl should look into it.... basically a HR derby for me!! :) maybe ill beat my record and hit 6 HR's at practice tonite lol
palmQ
Victor on 06/1/2005 04:18:05
Hey dave, i sleep early now so its really difficult to catch you guys online. anyways i hope your parents are doing well now, and you yourself are doing well too. I have never been old but i guess it must be really tough to take care of old folks when you yourself are getting old.
palmQ, thanks you took those crits +vely,
I was much like you when i first took a passion for car audio, raw and wild, but gradually i trained myself and organised my imagination. This site and people here have really really helped me more than anyone else to develop my skills, and also be a better person.
You should stay on here and ask as many questions as you feel even if you feel they are stupid.
Regarding Sub-Enclosures here are a few links which can help you understand the basics of Enclosure selection and designing.
http://www.diysubwoofers.org./
http://subbox.net/store/catalog/Want-to-build-your-own-box-sp-1.html
Got many more links, I am also writing an article on SubWoofers, but i guess for the beginning the above links have enough information for your use, shall update you with the article and other links later.
Hope that helps.
Victor...
Victor on 06/1/2005 04:22:01
There may not be even the slightest space for INVENTION but there sure is a whole lot of space for INNOVATION. THINK
swez on 06/1/2005 09:49:44
Thanks guys... appreciate your concerns and prayers regarding my parents. Have been marshaling things to keep on top of their mutual health concerns on track. More like a personal, medical and PT assistant these past few days.
Mom is gaining speed and endurance will be her challenges the next 12 weeks or so. Gotta figure out a way to "motivate her" to get off the couch and away from the TV set. She gets PT visits 3X/week now. It's going well and hopefully, she'll venture out and do more activities as she is able.
Pops is now a primary focus. He's been under so much mental, physical and emotional stress the past month, now his body is showing signs of being depleated. Fortunately, his bride is now home and we are working with a few docs to figure out what him immediate situational needs are. Could be as simple as a urinary tract infection or as complex as kidney stones or prostrate cancer. More tests pending this week and next.
===================================================
PQ, when designing a woofer enclosure, think of the project as a sound wave pressure generator. Here, we target long sound waves as that what bass is all about. The enclosure design needs to incorporate enough back pressure to maintain cone stability at low frequencies and porting ducts that help focus sound waves in a given frequency range. (30 - 100 Hz.) Bandpass designs and folded horns do a very good job at both, when matched to a given woofer specs.
There is a lot of physics, air pressure management and frequency enhancements that are incorporated into useful bass reinforcement system designs. The trick is to multiply low frequency output in a managable enclosure size.
When looking at a given design, think of the air a woofer must move like water from a large diameter pipe. There has to be a retention pond to store energy, (the sealed enclosure part) a pump to amplify or compound the stored energy, (the sub(s) is/are the pump(s)) and the port(s) are the outlets that channel the energy out of the system.
This is where port tuning is so critical. The port(s) have to be large enough to allow the air to flow freely through them and of the proper area (length and diameter) to tune or focus the pressure without adding noise and long enough to delay the sound wave enough to be in phase with the output of the sub(s) cone output. That's how we get the multiplication factor. (efficiency of the design) It's really a scientific process of complex math and physics. Not just asthetics. If you have a stong background in math & physics, this will be much easier to map out usable enclosure designs. Otherwise, it's hit or miss.
I think there are several good websites out there on enclosure design to browse. We also have a few good DIY articles on this site to whet your appitite. Victor and Kittle have done a good amount of design research on such topics and can guide you to some of the technical resources they used as well. Am sure there are many books available to guide you as well. Just remember that size of the woofer and enclosures that will fit into car audio formats, are somewhat a new phenom. Most books and such are targeted toward larger HT and Pro sound reinforcement properties. These designs are much larger than can be used in typical car audio applications.
Hope that helps,
Swez
palmquist on 06/2/2005 19:25:36
i finally got to it and posted some new pictures on my website.... i tried thinking more logical and actually put water in place of sound when designing these to see if it would "flow" well... these make a little more sense then the other ones and hopefully are better
the site again is www.palmqaudio.freewebtools.com
palmQ
p.s.- i made a logo for my site on the home page.... not too nice i kno but Paint is all i have to work with (as u can probably tell with my previous pics, hehe), but i didnt write anything so dont bother reading
Victor on 06/3/2005 03:02:27
PalmQ I guess you gonna be bashed again..hehe..
Well, looking at these new pictures makes it very apparent that you have not read enough about Sub-enclosures.Actually it makes me feel that you have not tried or done any kind of research on Sub-enclosures.
Believe me a proper understanding of Acoustics and Sub-enclosure theories are the only things that can help you out.
If I keep on commenting on each and every desing of yours it will take a long time for you to realise how it should be done, instead its better you read as much as possible and try taming your vivid and imaginative mind.
Please gimme ur yahoo or MSN chat messenger id, I will be able to explain you about this only on real time basis.
Victor...
PS.
My yahoo id - victorginger@yahoo.com
My MSN id - victorexports@hotmail.com
swez on 06/3/2005 09:47:39
Agreed... there are no shortcuts to excellent enclosure designs. It takes a lot of research, reading what others have tried and learning the sometime complex acoustics, math & physics that are incorporated into a well designed enclosure.
Am enjoying your creativity and imagination on various designs, but they are not useful substitutes for a solid background in acoustics. Start simple... read whatever you can on the basic design characteristics of sealed, ported & vented enclosures. Once one has a solid grasp on how the sub interacts with these basic designs, then one can move into more complex designs like the folded horn, acoustical labyrith and bandpass enclosures.
The sealed and ported enclosures are the key building blocks to a well designed sub enclosure. Once those are well grafted into the mind, arranging them to work in more complex designs will come later.
Swez
PS Gotta love a good graphic artist. (Creatives) But, these skills need to be harnessed by the fundamentals of the tried and true acoustical engineering.
palmquist on 06/3/2005 23:32:33
the funny thing is, u guys are going to laugh, is that i have done my reading lol... o well i guess i can always do ALOT more by the sounds of it :D, sounds like i REALLY need it too... i must just be a very slow learner if they look that bad... ur rite tho... too much CREATIVITY, not enough LOGICALITY.... sry im wasting ur time... but wen my mind gets going it is hard to harness it and stop it... i ddint even show u ALL of them either, and boy am i glad- i woulda got worked on some of those i can tell already without the assistance of either of you (not that it goes unappreciated, im just saying that they are very "wild" designs lol... but maybe for laughs ill put them up there for u, maybe i should take down some of teh others :D ) neway thanks again... ur rite i prolly do need a lot more knowledge, but i did read and my first 4 enclosures turned out pretty well if i do say so myself... performance and looks... but they were all sealed, which isnt too difficult
palmQ
p.s.- i wont post ne more up there until i kno it makes sense! saves some of your time and ALOT of mine... lol, but ill leave the ones already up there for kicks and giggles in case ur bored searching the web and need a quick laugh
palmquist on 06/3/2005 23:38:27
o ya almost forgot.... AIM sn is palmquist46........sorry victor i dont kno if it makes a difference... like yahoo can only talk to yahoo ppl.. or MSN to MSN, u kno wut i mean
i dont have either MSN or yahoo
my aol is atvboardracer39@aol.com in case u wanna send an email
swez on 06/5/2005 11:00:12
Hey PQ,
OK, loaded AIM and my screen name there is "swezdp". Does AIM have a voice chat feature as well? Also, what are the best times to catch you on AIM? (consider the time zones... mine is EDT)
Swez
palmquist on 06/5/2005 18:54:32
great... i think it does have voice chat, but i dont have a mic., i dont mind typing if you dont... sorry i have the real "basics" over here wen it comes to computers and all.... i have 2 days left til school is out, and have to study for tests, as well as play softball, and keep up a job... so i wont be on for the next 2 days very much.... but on average during the summer u can catch me at around 9(PM)-early morning usually... so about 10(PM)-early morning your time.... that is probably when im on the most... but if u go to bed early or like to sleep then im flexible and can get on wenever is good for u (for the most part)
palmQ
swez on 06/6/2005 07:37:24
What's your GMT time? Mine is -04 hrs., GMT
Swez
palmquist on 06/6/2005 16:41:07
(GMT -06:00) Central Time (US & Canada)...
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