my speakers pop when i start the car and then cut out if i turn them up to loud. i have an alpine 9847 hu, alpine mrp f240 amp, and infinity reference speakers, its all connected through rca's, i am new to this stuff so whats the problem? please help
Replies (17)
snipe523 on 04/17/2005 14:30:33
Sounds like your amp is going into protect mode. Try going to a parking lot or something somewhere and playing them like this until they stop. As soon as they stop look at your amp and see if the protect light is on.
Funnel30 on 04/17/2005 15:16:25
what is protect mode? now that you mention it, i've seen my hu display the word protect once or twice, what does this mean? people have told me the popping is a result of ground loop? i don't know what that is either.
swez on 04/17/2005 16:06:38
The pop noise could be a sign of inadequate grounding of the HU. That is part of the symtoms of a ground loop problem as would engine whine (ALT noise) coming through speakers.
The other issue, system shut off... may be indeed the amp going into thermal protection mode. If the amp gets too hot from being pushed hard, it has a self protection circuit to shut down until it cools.
If you have the manual for your amp, have a look at the trouble shooting charts and note the section on amplifier setups as well. I would have a close look at the gain settings on your amp. They may be set improperly as well. This too, can be a cause for the popping and amp shutoff issues. Are you using much bass boost on the amp or HU?
Swez
Funnel30 on 04/17/2005 16:45:55
i haven't noticed any whine noise, i don't even know where the ground wire is for my factory wires, so i just attached the hu ground to a bolt in my dash. wouldn't the popping have more to do with the amp grounding then the hu? although i still don't understand what the ground loop is. i wish i had the manual. but the amp is rated at 40x4 rms and these speakers say thats the peak they can handle. i think its the amp thats protecting itself, but it only shuts off for like 2 seconds.
the thing is though when i had my mtx mono amp hooked up to the subs before i put the 4 channel alpine in i had no problems. there was no popping or anything.
also for the bass boost on the amp and the hu it is at its lowest setting because i use another amp to power my subs, but like i said before i had no problems before with them. mind you i just got the alpine 9847 and the alpine mrp-f240 amp, so i am guessing it is something wrong with those. thanks for all your help i hope you keep responding because i know i will get to the bottom of this eventually. thanks again
ttocs on 04/17/2005 18:38:30
the factory ground behind the radio will be a large, silver, braid that normally bolts to the back of the radio. You may need to dig into the dash a little, but it should not be too hard to find, it is the only piece like it in the dash.
If that does not fix it, what are the amp gains set at? Maybe try turning them down.
swez on 04/17/2005 19:00:21
Owners manual:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500MRPF240.PDF
Ground loops: This is a common install problem where HU and amplifer(s) do not have the same grounding reference point. The best way to ground the HU is as ttocs mentioned. A direct wire from HU (Black) to firewall, floorpan or grounded metal frame in dash. Bare metal connections are best for both amps and HU. The RCA's and antenna provide a degree of grounding, but not always adequate. Harness grounds may not be adequate either as other electrical devices share that harness ground and can degrade performance. (Hense, noise)
Amp Protects:
There are three main protect circuits for most newer amps these days:
1. Low voltage (<10.5 VDC)
2. Shorted outputs
3. Thermal protects activate if amp get too hot... better ventilation can often cure that (same with mounting methods and location)
3a. Load to a give channel is too low (pulls too much power from amp, which causes excess heat and thermal protect activates)
Amp gains can also effect amps as well. If the amp gains are not set to HU RCA output voltage specs, (2-5 volts typ.) the amp can reach full power and begin to clip badly at <50% HU volumes. The sensitivity controls on amp, need to be pretty close to HU output voltages at ~80% of full volume. The preamp voltage on this HU states 2.0 volts from RCA's. Your amp gains needs to be set in same range.
Hope that helps,
Swez
PS Keep coming back as you need to. We'll help as best we can.
Funnel30 on 04/17/2005 19:50:48
so as you mentioned the hu is 2V, i will check that. i am also going to look for that ground wire in the dash. i think ventilation for this amp could be the problem, i have it under the seat and i keep hearing about how hot they get, maybe thats it, but its a truck, so where do i mount it other than the seat? there's absolutely no security in this truck so everything almost has to be hidden. anyways i will be busy tonight and tomorrow but tuesday i will and try and fix this problem. thanks again for all the help
swez on 04/18/2005 08:26:43
First thing to look into is amp gain settings. They should be set at ~2 volts to get full power. When HU RCA levels reach 2 volts (~80% max volume) the amp is at full power. If the amp gains are set <2 volts, the amp will begin to clip and create more heat be fore the HU gets to 2 volts output.
Check the amp for excess heating when you play it loud for a time. May consider adding a cooling fan or 2, to adequately ventilate the amps' heat buildup.
Swez
ttocs on 04/18/2005 12:40:40
touch the amp and see how warm it is. unless it is too hot to touch it should not be shutting down for that.
You could also have a speaker that is grounding out. If you have a ohm meter measure the impedence on each of the speakers, behind the deck.
Funnel30 on 04/18/2005 13:56:52
okay i just finished up with class and i am going out to work on it, it will take a few hours because i need to take the seats out and check wiring. also i will first check the gain settings, making sure they are set properly, as for the cooling fan, where do i get one, i've never really thought about it and how would i attach it? by the way do you guys want to see pics of the set up at all since you've been basically helping me through it? alright be back in a bit.
swez on 04/18/2005 16:16:51
If we can hook up on Yahoo IM, we can voice chat and you can load pics to show as well. My IM account name is: swezdp Nice features on IM and we can cover a lot of ground if you have a PC mike as well.
Swez
Funnel30 on 04/18/2005 17:33:16
i am getting messenger. now since i have failed miserably already i want to restart from the top. would you be willing to run me through everything
ttocs on 04/18/2005 18:25:54
we can get you through it........
Funnel30 on 04/18/2005 18:56:32
Alright just another thought, would the type of speaker wire i am using have any effect? i am using 18ga for the speakers. is that too small?
swez on 04/19/2005 06:54:33
That's a pretty modest amp as power goes. We usually recommend 14-16 AWG wires for speakers and 8-12 AWG for subs. Depends on the power the wires carry.
Am on EDT here, what's the best time to catch you on Yahoo IM? I did get your request to be added to buddy list and agreed.
Swez
Funnel30 on 04/19/2005 10:18:03
how about after five your time? i have some interview thing at my house at two colorado time but after that i will be done. let me know what works for you, i will be free for the entire afternoon except for 2.
swez on 04/19/2005 11:03:22
Are you available at 9:15 AM your time? (11:15 am here?)
I have a few things to attend to this evening and will be out after 4:00 PM (EDT) til late.
Swez
I'll just leave my IM open until we connect.
Replies (17)
snipe523 on 04/17/2005 14:30:33
Sounds like your amp is going into protect mode. Try going to a parking lot or something somewhere and playing them like this until they stop. As soon as they stop look at your amp and see if the protect light is on.
Funnel30 on 04/17/2005 15:16:25
what is protect mode? now that you mention it, i've seen my hu display the word protect once or twice, what does this mean? people have told me the popping is a result of ground loop? i don't know what that is either.
swez on 04/17/2005 16:06:38
The pop noise could be a sign of inadequate grounding of the HU. That is part of the symtoms of a ground loop problem as would engine whine (ALT noise) coming through speakers.
The other issue, system shut off... may be indeed the amp going into thermal protection mode. If the amp gets too hot from being pushed hard, it has a self protection circuit to shut down until it cools.
If you have the manual for your amp, have a look at the trouble shooting charts and note the section on amplifier setups as well. I would have a close look at the gain settings on your amp. They may be set improperly as well. This too, can be a cause for the popping and amp shutoff issues. Are you using much bass boost on the amp or HU?
Swez
Funnel30 on 04/17/2005 16:45:55
i haven't noticed any whine noise, i don't even know where the ground wire is for my factory wires, so i just attached the hu ground to a bolt in my dash. wouldn't the popping have more to do with the amp grounding then the hu? although i still don't understand what the ground loop is. i wish i had the manual. but the amp is rated at 40x4 rms and these speakers say thats the peak they can handle. i think its the amp thats protecting itself, but it only shuts off for like 2 seconds.
the thing is though when i had my mtx mono amp hooked up to the subs before i put the 4 channel alpine in i had no problems. there was no popping or anything.
also for the bass boost on the amp and the hu it is at its lowest setting because i use another amp to power my subs, but like i said before i had no problems before with them. mind you i just got the alpine 9847 and the alpine mrp-f240 amp, so i am guessing it is something wrong with those. thanks for all your help i hope you keep responding because i know i will get to the bottom of this eventually. thanks again
ttocs on 04/17/2005 18:38:30
the factory ground behind the radio will be a large, silver, braid that normally bolts to the back of the radio. You may need to dig into the dash a little, but it should not be too hard to find, it is the only piece like it in the dash.
If that does not fix it, what are the amp gains set at? Maybe try turning them down.
swez on 04/17/2005 19:00:21
Owners manual:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500MRPF240.PDF
Ground loops: This is a common install problem where HU and amplifer(s) do not have the same grounding reference point. The best way to ground the HU is as ttocs mentioned. A direct wire from HU (Black) to firewall, floorpan or grounded metal frame in dash. Bare metal connections are best for both amps and HU. The RCA's and antenna provide a degree of grounding, but not always adequate. Harness grounds may not be adequate either as other electrical devices share that harness ground and can degrade performance. (Hense, noise)
Amp Protects:
There are three main protect circuits for most newer amps these days:
1. Low voltage (<10.5 VDC)
2. Shorted outputs
3. Thermal protects activate if amp get too hot... better ventilation can often cure that (same with mounting methods and location)
3a. Load to a give channel is too low (pulls too much power from amp, which causes excess heat and thermal protect activates)
Amp gains can also effect amps as well. If the amp gains are not set to HU RCA output voltage specs, (2-5 volts typ.) the amp can reach full power and begin to clip badly at <50% HU volumes. The sensitivity controls on amp, need to be pretty close to HU output voltages at ~80% of full volume. The preamp voltage on this HU states 2.0 volts from RCA's. Your amp gains needs to be set in same range.
Hope that helps,
Swez
PS Keep coming back as you need to. We'll help as best we can.
Funnel30 on 04/17/2005 19:50:48
so as you mentioned the hu is 2V, i will check that. i am also going to look for that ground wire in the dash. i think ventilation for this amp could be the problem, i have it under the seat and i keep hearing about how hot they get, maybe thats it, but its a truck, so where do i mount it other than the seat? there's absolutely no security in this truck so everything almost has to be hidden. anyways i will be busy tonight and tomorrow but tuesday i will and try and fix this problem. thanks again for all the help
swez on 04/18/2005 08:26:43
First thing to look into is amp gain settings. They should be set at ~2 volts to get full power. When HU RCA levels reach 2 volts (~80% max volume) the amp is at full power. If the amp gains are set <2 volts, the amp will begin to clip and create more heat be fore the HU gets to 2 volts output.
Check the amp for excess heating when you play it loud for a time. May consider adding a cooling fan or 2, to adequately ventilate the amps' heat buildup.
Swez
ttocs on 04/18/2005 12:40:40
touch the amp and see how warm it is. unless it is too hot to touch it should not be shutting down for that.
You could also have a speaker that is grounding out. If you have a ohm meter measure the impedence on each of the speakers, behind the deck.
Funnel30 on 04/18/2005 13:56:52
okay i just finished up with class and i am going out to work on it, it will take a few hours because i need to take the seats out and check wiring. also i will first check the gain settings, making sure they are set properly, as for the cooling fan, where do i get one, i've never really thought about it and how would i attach it? by the way do you guys want to see pics of the set up at all since you've been basically helping me through it? alright be back in a bit.
swez on 04/18/2005 16:16:51
If we can hook up on Yahoo IM, we can voice chat and you can load pics to show as well. My IM account name is: swezdp Nice features on IM and we can cover a lot of ground if you have a PC mike as well.
Swez
Funnel30 on 04/18/2005 17:33:16
i am getting messenger. now since i have failed miserably already i want to restart from the top. would you be willing to run me through everything
ttocs on 04/18/2005 18:25:54
we can get you through it........
Funnel30 on 04/18/2005 18:56:32
Alright just another thought, would the type of speaker wire i am using have any effect? i am using 18ga for the speakers. is that too small?
swez on 04/19/2005 06:54:33
That's a pretty modest amp as power goes. We usually recommend 14-16 AWG wires for speakers and 8-12 AWG for subs. Depends on the power the wires carry.
Am on EDT here, what's the best time to catch you on Yahoo IM? I did get your request to be added to buddy list and agreed.
Swez
Funnel30 on 04/19/2005 10:18:03
how about after five your time? i have some interview thing at my house at two colorado time but after that i will be done. let me know what works for you, i will be free for the entire afternoon except for 2.
swez on 04/19/2005 11:03:22
Are you available at 9:15 AM your time? (11:15 am here?)
I have a few things to attend to this evening and will be out after 4:00 PM (EDT) til late.
Swez
I'll just leave my IM open until we connect.
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