hi guys, Just a couple of questions. I finally received my amp and sub today, a 12in Alpine type R, and a MTX 502 Thunder Amp.
question 1) I have been told by some on this forum that I will get X amount of power from this amp but on the back it says: 360 Watts RMS Bridged into 4 ohms and then
the next line says:
500 Watts Dynamic Power bridged into 4 ohms.
Does that mean I will get 360 Watts RMS or 500 what and how would I wire it?
Question 2) in the beginning I was going to sell this amp, but I think I will not. If that is the case should I still get 4 gauge wire or 8 gauge?
Thanks for all your advice and help!
Replies (26)
alanjlamore on 04/12/2005 17:57:34
That's a class A, 2 channel amp which is a lot less efficient than a class D, meaning that it will use a lot more power from your alt. and batterie than it will put out to the speakers. This may or may not be too much on your electricals, so just pay attention to your headlights dimming when the music plays loud.
From what I got on Crutchfield's website, this puts out 125 Watts RMS, per channel with a 4 ohm load (per channel); and 250 Watts RMS with a 2 ohm load, per channel.
If you bridge the 2 channels into one channel, you get 500 watts rms. You do this by hooking the sub up to the possitive of one channel on the amp, and the negative of the other channel. This should ONLY be done with a 4 ohm load, otherwise you will probably ruin the amp.
What kind of Type R sub do you have?
If it's dual 4 ohm you could hook up each voice coil to it's own channel of the amp to give you 125W RMS per voice coil, or 250W RMS for the sub.
If it's dual 2 ohm you could hook it up the same way and get 250W RMS per voice coil which would be 500Watts RMS to the whole sub;
OR
you could wire the 2 voice coils of the sub in series to get a 4 ohm load, and hook the sub up to the amp bridged, which would also give you 500W RMS for the sub.
If it's a 4 ohm single voice coil, you could hook that up to the amp bridged to get 500W RMS.
If it's a 2 ohm single voice coil (which I don't think it is), you could only hook it up to one of the channels to get 250W RMS to the sub, then you'd have one unused channel on the amp.
I forgot, but I think you said it was 2ohm Dual voice coil?
Hope that helped.
swez on 04/12/2005 18:25:39
MTX is one of the few Mfgs that use Dynamic Power figures. In layman's terms, can expect a min of 350 Wrms when bridged to a 4 ohm load, operating at 12.5 volts. (At 14.4 volts, 500 Wrms)
Basically, now that CEA-2006 is becoming the new standard for amp ratings... (14.4 volts input and 1% max THD) this amp will produce more than 500 Wrms when bridged to a 4 ohm load at 1% THD.
What sub configuration is this again? (2+2 or 4+4 DVC)
Power wire to use: <500 Wrms, #8 will do, > 500 Wrms, use #4.
Swez
Buickman94 on 04/12/2005 18:29:01
With reguards to the wire size, you could probably get away with 8gauge, but considering there is not that much of a price difference, you are better off going with 4gauge. Also, if u plan on getting a more powerful amp down the line you wont have to run new wire.
Mr._Miyagi on 04/12/2005 18:45:49
i emailed the person i bought it from to find out if it is DVC or SVC so I will be able to tell you guys when i hear back from him.
Also, alanjlamore, you said that it might be bad on my electrical and dim my headlights. If my head lights do indeed dim, what should I do? Should I sell the amp if I can or what? Does this just mean I should not use the Amp at night?
simon on 04/12/2005 19:26:36
I suggest taking your car into a alternator rebuilding shop & get it beefed up - Im not sure prices in US funds - but here in Canada it's about $100-125CAD.
From what Ive read & understand from others experiences - your entire electrical system will run off your alterantor when your car is running unless hte loads exceed the alternators capabilities - then it will pull those extra amps off your battery... Therefore beefing your alternator is the most cost efficent / most effective upgrade to your stock system... Im just not sure how many extra amps you can get from beefing it up - maybe someone else can help with that one. Good luck.
alanjlamore on 04/12/2005 20:46:08
One way to avoid any electrical/alternator upgrades would be to get a class D amp for the subs. Class A and AB amps are so inefficient power wise because they are more clear and accurate, but the amount of distortion that you get with a class D amp isn't noticeable to the human ear with the low frequencies that subs are going to be playing.
Class D amps are approx. 80% efficient, meaning that if they will send 80% of the power that they consume to the sub. Class AB are approx. 50% efficiant and would draw twice as much power from your vehicle than it's giving the speaker, all that excess power is lost to heat.
For example, if a class D amp is drawing 60 amps from your car, the class AB amp would draw a lot more amps (don't know exactly how much). Your alternator only has so many extra amps for your radio.
Swez and other golds here would be a lot better at explaining this, but that's kind of how I see it.
Playing your radio with the lights on is a quick and easy way to see if your amps are drawing too much power from your vehicle. If they dim only a little bit when a big bass note hits, you're probably okay, but if they stay real dim throughout the whole song, your amp is probably drawing too much power from your vehicle and could ruin the alternator or drain your battery.
If your engine is off, all the power running everything in your car is coming from the 12Volts of your battery, when the engine is on, all the power running everything in your car is coming from the alternator which is around 13-14.4Volts
Hope that helps and isn't too confusing. I'm not as good at explaining things as the golds on this site.
swez on 04/12/2005 23:55:51
Yes Alan, you have the general concept right. A Class D MONO amp can deliver 80+ % efficiency to a load while Class A/B amps range from 50-60%. The key reason for choosing a Class D amp is not only the effiency ratings, but also the limited frequency response they allow. (typically under 200 Hz., which is fine for subs)
Class D amps are simpler in design and have fewer circuits to process audio. Hense, more bang for the buck, if you want a larger amp and have a small ALT/BAT system in a given vehicle. These are designed for low ohmic sub applications. Some Class D's are able to manage 1-2 ohm loads just fine. Depends on the model and brand.
On the other hand, Class A/B amps are better at full range output needs like mids/highs. This is the proper place to use a smaller amp to drive all mid/high frequencies drivers at full range (~80-20Khz.) with minimal distortion, to their full potential. However, they can mostly be used on subs applications where the amp is bridged MONO and you have a min speaker load of 4 ohms. However, they will draws more current to produce the same output values common of Class D amps.
Hope that clears things up,
Swez
lessismorespl on 04/13/2005 00:52:01
This is all true, but some manufacturers are switching to the unregulated power supply using Rail Switching Technology, basically it gives you the efficiency of a Class D, but the low THD like a good Class A/B, and on multi-channel amps they now have the Pulse Width Modulated Power Supply which yields maximum power transfer w/ minimum heat loss. There is much new technology out there, JL has the regulated power supply which yields the same amount of power whether the amp is getting 11volts or 14.4volts, many of these new technolgies are patented right now, but a few years down the road when the patent has expired, any manufacturer can use this technology. JL just received a 5 yr exstension on several of their patents for the W6V2 and W7, and w/ the Slash series amps. I perosnally believe we are about to see a "jumping jesus" in car audio, that is where the technology 10 folds. Look at the Class D digital amps, they are not only more efficient than normal Class D's, many produce more wattage w/ half the size, 5-7 yrs ago, a 500 wRMS amp was massive, now you buy 800-1500 wRMS Digital Class D amps that are half the size, look at Kicker amps, a 300 wRMS Kicker is huge....ya think Kicker needs to come to the light and admit that it is a new millinium and that cars are getting smaller and we do not have room for sides of beef in our trunks?
UKinstaller on 04/13/2005 01:08:57
i STRONGLY recommend that you do not put 500 watts to the type-r sub. i work with these almost every day or week, and 90 percent of the subs that get more than 400w rms end up blowing. the RMS rating on the sub is 300w, i wouldn't recommend going more than 350w. the type-r 15 is 500w rms.
that being said, i don't think the electrical system is going to need any sort of upgrade whatsoever. if you put 250w to the sub, which will sound very good, you will be putting very little strain on the electrical system, it will be perfectly fine.
on a side note, i know that previous kicker amps have been huge, but this years models are MUCH smaller. we have kicker now at circuit city, the amps are not very big at all. most of the actual size of the amp is the covers for the terminal inserts, if you take those off the amp is like half the size. the only exception is of course the 2500w kicker amp, which is over 3 feet wide!! a huge amp, but then again it is 2500w. it actually has 1/0 gauge terminals. that's insane.
-UK
Mr._Miyagi on 04/13/2005 10:03:51
Ok so even if I only put in 250 watts, it won't suck and I won't have electrical probs and will not need any upgrades to my electrical, sounds like a plan.
UK, you said u deal with Type Rs every day so I was wondering if there is anything I should know about them that is not immidiately obvious.
Also, for the wiring kit, someone said the Walmart ones are fine, do you guys agree or disagree. If its all good, i think I will get one soon. Thanks
Also, How do you guys think I should get under the car to do the wire from the battery to the amp?
UKinstaller on 04/13/2005 12:08:56
nah there's not really too much to know about them. is yours 2 or 4 ohms?? it's definitely a dual voice coil, they don't make it in a single. it's more than likely a 4 ohm DVC, that's the most popular.
as for wire, that's a very debated topic. some people preach only the most expensive wires, some people preach cheap as possible, i'm right in the middle. i have used the wal-mart kits, but the 4 gauge that comes with it comes up short every single time. if i were you, i would get something like a tsunami kit or something like that, they are pretty good and include everything you'll need except for RCA's. i usually recommend RCA's that cost in the $20 range, it's stupid to spend $100 on some RCA's in my opinion. some people say that the expensive ones offer better shielding, which is true, but if installed correctly you can't tell a difference between a $5 and $100 set except for the appearance. that's just me though.
and you won't need to run the wire under your car, generally you should only run a wire under a car as an absolute last resort. what kind of car is it?? someone here should be able to tell you a place in the firewall to run it through.
-UK
Mr._Miyagi on 04/13/2005 22:27:58
Well, the dude I bought it from, now that he has the money doesnt seem to be responding to my email. I guess I'll bet on it being 4 ohm DVC.
As for the wires, you said the 4 gauge from Walmart comes up short, do you mean literally, it is too short or figuratively, it's no good? I kinda don't want to order online, cuz I want to do this install ASAP so I can be happy with my Bass. I called Autozone and they seem to have wiring kits though I don't know how much better they will be then Walmart.
In regards to the wiring, I am putting it in a 1991 Mazda 626 Automatic. For the hole in the Fire wall, what am I looking for? is it an actual hole that wires are just going through or what? I have a digital camera so I could probably take pictures if it would help.
Can't Thank you folks enough
-Eli
UKinstaller on 04/14/2005 00:38:30
it comes up short literally. you need about 17ft of power wire to do it comfortably, and the wal-mart kit comes with like 8 or 10 feet, a distribution block, and 8 gauge wires to run off of that. it never reaches. autozone kits are no better.
if there is no rubber grommet in your firewall that you are capable of running a power wire through, then you have to drill a hole in the firewall to run the power wire through. it's not that hard, pics of the dash might help.
NHenson1@hotmail.com (e-mail address)
-UK
Mr._Miyagi on 04/14/2005 19:33:10
So if the Autozone and Walmart Wiring kits are to short, where can i get it from that is not online and does not cost an absurd amount?
ssallstar598 on 04/14/2005 22:41:38
you could probably get 4 gauge wire from home depot by the foot fairly cheap
Mr._Miyagi on 04/14/2005 22:45:05
goood idea!
ssallstar598 on 04/14/2005 22:47:36
it wont be cosmetically apealing but frankly id rather have save money on wire over cosmetics.....
Mr._Miyagi on 04/14/2005 22:49:16
yeah I agree thanks for the suggestion, I think i will do that, get a kit from either autozone or walmart and just buy however much 4 gauge I need, crimp em together and have a ball. Good lookin out.
ssallstar598 on 04/14/2005 22:54:43
good luck and lemme know how it works out (im gonna be running another amp and if the home depot wire is cheap like i think it is thatd be perfect for me lol)
Mr._Miyagi on 04/16/2005 16:27:32
I decided that doing the install myself is to much work so I will prob have bestbuy or circuitcity or something do it for me, though I hate paying 40 bucks for wiring I know doesn't cost that much.
lessismorespl on 04/16/2005 22:22:38
I recently was at a training seminar for electrical issues in car audio sponsered by various manufacturers. Lets start w/ the wire, you are look at some strong resistence if you use the the wire Home Depot/Lowes sells, or welding wire, etc. I know it is cheap, you will lose voltage. The test I witnessed ran 18' of 3 different manufacturers wire, and 18' of welding wire and the copper residential wire they sell at Home Depot/Lowes, the difference between Streetwires, JL Audio, and Stinger was not much....
-.3/-.5/-.7......this all changed when using the welding wire and residential wire, the difference was -1.8 volts from residential and
-1.4 from welding wire. Now this may not warrant much concern, but I would rather spend a few dollars more and have that extra voltage running to my amp, rather than have my alt work that much harder to get the voltage to my amp. If your lights start dimming, do a Big 3 Upgrade, it is inexspensive and fairly easy to do, a capacitor will just add to over working the alt and add even more resistence. I have been researching capacitors and extra batteries for over 4 yrs now, they are great for big competition systems that have 2 or 3 HO alts and have 4K-20K of wattage, but for the layman, they are not needed, and in fact can cause more problems than help, the more capacitors, batteries, etc...the harder your alt works to keep it all charged.....you have to remember, capacitors and deep cycle batteries discharge quicker than they charge.
Mr. Miyagi, do you have a good audio shop around, I would go w/ them over Best Buy or Circuit City, they are more willing to deal and have more room to deal w/ installation accessories and wiring, CC & BBY have set prices and cannot deal b/c they do not have the room to deal, I'm sure if you get a quote from both and go to a independant shop, they will give you the same price or lower and you will receive more professional work. Just soemthing to think about.
Mr._Miyagi on 04/17/2005 00:06:01
yeah I want to go somewhere else, especially after learning the price from CC and BB, which they said would be about 160 bucks...So...Either I find somewhere better/cheaper or I try to do it myself again...If anyone is in the Chicago Area or knows of anywhere good in the Chicago Area, please let me know. I tried looking online and such without to much luck. I found one place ABCelectronics or something like that which is like 50 bucks plus wiring and I a friend had two subs installed at some place called "G's" in the Ghetto for about 50 bucks (not sure if that includes wiring, she didn't say).
Anywhooooooo thanks for the advice about the wires, very interesting. On that note, when I installed my 6.5'' speakers, I patched in about 6 inches Ace Hardware wire with the existing wire. Do you think that is making a noticable difference since even though the distance in shorter, the power is also much smaller from the HU than an amp?
lessismorespl on 04/17/2005 10:00:57
Not really, maybe some to the speakers, but not enough to make a difference. The difference falls when you are running lets say over 10 ft of wire. After several experiments, Streetwires has the least resistence, then JL Audio, next is Stinger and KnuKonceptz which are about the same, then it just falls off after that.
Here are some phone #'s to places in the Chicago area:
Sound Design, Inc (708)749-9000
Audio Consultants (312) 642-5950
Paul Heath Audio Limited (773) 549-8100
These may help, to give you an idea of installation cost, most places charge $70 + wiring to install an amp plus $10-$20 for shop supplies(wire, ring terminals, etc..)
I really do not think it would be too hard to do yourself, buy a decent amp kit(about $35-$50), try to get one that includes the RCA's, if not, buy a set of RCA's($15-$20), and everything else should be fairly easy.
Mr._Miyagi on 04/17/2005 12:46:29
Hey thanks a lot for the places, I will call them today. Just out of curiousity, how did you find these places?
lessismorespl on 04/17/2005 22:12:03
I use to travel all the time for competitions, so I have made several friends all over the US, actually, all over the world. I just called one of my friends and ask him if there were any good shops there that do quality work other than CC or BBY. He says Sound Design is probably the best.
Mr._Miyagi on 04/17/2005 22:13:15
o, thats cool, thanks for the hook up
question 1) I have been told by some on this forum that I will get X amount of power from this amp but on the back it says: 360 Watts RMS Bridged into 4 ohms and then
the next line says:
500 Watts Dynamic Power bridged into 4 ohms.
Does that mean I will get 360 Watts RMS or 500 what and how would I wire it?
Question 2) in the beginning I was going to sell this amp, but I think I will not. If that is the case should I still get 4 gauge wire or 8 gauge?
Thanks for all your advice and help!
Replies (26)
alanjlamore on 04/12/2005 17:57:34
That's a class A, 2 channel amp which is a lot less efficient than a class D, meaning that it will use a lot more power from your alt. and batterie than it will put out to the speakers. This may or may not be too much on your electricals, so just pay attention to your headlights dimming when the music plays loud.
From what I got on Crutchfield's website, this puts out 125 Watts RMS, per channel with a 4 ohm load (per channel); and 250 Watts RMS with a 2 ohm load, per channel.
If you bridge the 2 channels into one channel, you get 500 watts rms. You do this by hooking the sub up to the possitive of one channel on the amp, and the negative of the other channel. This should ONLY be done with a 4 ohm load, otherwise you will probably ruin the amp.
What kind of Type R sub do you have?
If it's dual 4 ohm you could hook up each voice coil to it's own channel of the amp to give you 125W RMS per voice coil, or 250W RMS for the sub.
If it's dual 2 ohm you could hook it up the same way and get 250W RMS per voice coil which would be 500Watts RMS to the whole sub;
OR
you could wire the 2 voice coils of the sub in series to get a 4 ohm load, and hook the sub up to the amp bridged, which would also give you 500W RMS for the sub.
If it's a 4 ohm single voice coil, you could hook that up to the amp bridged to get 500W RMS.
If it's a 2 ohm single voice coil (which I don't think it is), you could only hook it up to one of the channels to get 250W RMS to the sub, then you'd have one unused channel on the amp.
I forgot, but I think you said it was 2ohm Dual voice coil?
Hope that helped.
swez on 04/12/2005 18:25:39
MTX is one of the few Mfgs that use Dynamic Power figures. In layman's terms, can expect a min of 350 Wrms when bridged to a 4 ohm load, operating at 12.5 volts. (At 14.4 volts, 500 Wrms)
Basically, now that CEA-2006 is becoming the new standard for amp ratings... (14.4 volts input and 1% max THD) this amp will produce more than 500 Wrms when bridged to a 4 ohm load at 1% THD.
What sub configuration is this again? (2+2 or 4+4 DVC)
Power wire to use: <500 Wrms, #8 will do, > 500 Wrms, use #4.
Swez
Buickman94 on 04/12/2005 18:29:01
With reguards to the wire size, you could probably get away with 8gauge, but considering there is not that much of a price difference, you are better off going with 4gauge. Also, if u plan on getting a more powerful amp down the line you wont have to run new wire.
Mr._Miyagi on 04/12/2005 18:45:49
i emailed the person i bought it from to find out if it is DVC or SVC so I will be able to tell you guys when i hear back from him.
Also, alanjlamore, you said that it might be bad on my electrical and dim my headlights. If my head lights do indeed dim, what should I do? Should I sell the amp if I can or what? Does this just mean I should not use the Amp at night?
simon on 04/12/2005 19:26:36
I suggest taking your car into a alternator rebuilding shop & get it beefed up - Im not sure prices in US funds - but here in Canada it's about $100-125CAD.
From what Ive read & understand from others experiences - your entire electrical system will run off your alterantor when your car is running unless hte loads exceed the alternators capabilities - then it will pull those extra amps off your battery... Therefore beefing your alternator is the most cost efficent / most effective upgrade to your stock system... Im just not sure how many extra amps you can get from beefing it up - maybe someone else can help with that one. Good luck.
alanjlamore on 04/12/2005 20:46:08
One way to avoid any electrical/alternator upgrades would be to get a class D amp for the subs. Class A and AB amps are so inefficient power wise because they are more clear and accurate, but the amount of distortion that you get with a class D amp isn't noticeable to the human ear with the low frequencies that subs are going to be playing.
Class D amps are approx. 80% efficient, meaning that if they will send 80% of the power that they consume to the sub. Class AB are approx. 50% efficiant and would draw twice as much power from your vehicle than it's giving the speaker, all that excess power is lost to heat.
For example, if a class D amp is drawing 60 amps from your car, the class AB amp would draw a lot more amps (don't know exactly how much). Your alternator only has so many extra amps for your radio.
Swez and other golds here would be a lot better at explaining this, but that's kind of how I see it.
Playing your radio with the lights on is a quick and easy way to see if your amps are drawing too much power from your vehicle. If they dim only a little bit when a big bass note hits, you're probably okay, but if they stay real dim throughout the whole song, your amp is probably drawing too much power from your vehicle and could ruin the alternator or drain your battery.
If your engine is off, all the power running everything in your car is coming from the 12Volts of your battery, when the engine is on, all the power running everything in your car is coming from the alternator which is around 13-14.4Volts
Hope that helps and isn't too confusing. I'm not as good at explaining things as the golds on this site.
swez on 04/12/2005 23:55:51
Yes Alan, you have the general concept right. A Class D MONO amp can deliver 80+ % efficiency to a load while Class A/B amps range from 50-60%. The key reason for choosing a Class D amp is not only the effiency ratings, but also the limited frequency response they allow. (typically under 200 Hz., which is fine for subs)
Class D amps are simpler in design and have fewer circuits to process audio. Hense, more bang for the buck, if you want a larger amp and have a small ALT/BAT system in a given vehicle. These are designed for low ohmic sub applications. Some Class D's are able to manage 1-2 ohm loads just fine. Depends on the model and brand.
On the other hand, Class A/B amps are better at full range output needs like mids/highs. This is the proper place to use a smaller amp to drive all mid/high frequencies drivers at full range (~80-20Khz.) with minimal distortion, to their full potential. However, they can mostly be used on subs applications where the amp is bridged MONO and you have a min speaker load of 4 ohms. However, they will draws more current to produce the same output values common of Class D amps.
Hope that clears things up,
Swez
lessismorespl on 04/13/2005 00:52:01
This is all true, but some manufacturers are switching to the unregulated power supply using Rail Switching Technology, basically it gives you the efficiency of a Class D, but the low THD like a good Class A/B, and on multi-channel amps they now have the Pulse Width Modulated Power Supply which yields maximum power transfer w/ minimum heat loss. There is much new technology out there, JL has the regulated power supply which yields the same amount of power whether the amp is getting 11volts or 14.4volts, many of these new technolgies are patented right now, but a few years down the road when the patent has expired, any manufacturer can use this technology. JL just received a 5 yr exstension on several of their patents for the W6V2 and W7, and w/ the Slash series amps. I perosnally believe we are about to see a "jumping jesus" in car audio, that is where the technology 10 folds. Look at the Class D digital amps, they are not only more efficient than normal Class D's, many produce more wattage w/ half the size, 5-7 yrs ago, a 500 wRMS amp was massive, now you buy 800-1500 wRMS Digital Class D amps that are half the size, look at Kicker amps, a 300 wRMS Kicker is huge....ya think Kicker needs to come to the light and admit that it is a new millinium and that cars are getting smaller and we do not have room for sides of beef in our trunks?
UKinstaller on 04/13/2005 01:08:57
i STRONGLY recommend that you do not put 500 watts to the type-r sub. i work with these almost every day or week, and 90 percent of the subs that get more than 400w rms end up blowing. the RMS rating on the sub is 300w, i wouldn't recommend going more than 350w. the type-r 15 is 500w rms.
that being said, i don't think the electrical system is going to need any sort of upgrade whatsoever. if you put 250w to the sub, which will sound very good, you will be putting very little strain on the electrical system, it will be perfectly fine.
on a side note, i know that previous kicker amps have been huge, but this years models are MUCH smaller. we have kicker now at circuit city, the amps are not very big at all. most of the actual size of the amp is the covers for the terminal inserts, if you take those off the amp is like half the size. the only exception is of course the 2500w kicker amp, which is over 3 feet wide!! a huge amp, but then again it is 2500w. it actually has 1/0 gauge terminals. that's insane.
-UK
Mr._Miyagi on 04/13/2005 10:03:51
Ok so even if I only put in 250 watts, it won't suck and I won't have electrical probs and will not need any upgrades to my electrical, sounds like a plan.
UK, you said u deal with Type Rs every day so I was wondering if there is anything I should know about them that is not immidiately obvious.
Also, for the wiring kit, someone said the Walmart ones are fine, do you guys agree or disagree. If its all good, i think I will get one soon. Thanks
Also, How do you guys think I should get under the car to do the wire from the battery to the amp?
UKinstaller on 04/13/2005 12:08:56
nah there's not really too much to know about them. is yours 2 or 4 ohms?? it's definitely a dual voice coil, they don't make it in a single. it's more than likely a 4 ohm DVC, that's the most popular.
as for wire, that's a very debated topic. some people preach only the most expensive wires, some people preach cheap as possible, i'm right in the middle. i have used the wal-mart kits, but the 4 gauge that comes with it comes up short every single time. if i were you, i would get something like a tsunami kit or something like that, they are pretty good and include everything you'll need except for RCA's. i usually recommend RCA's that cost in the $20 range, it's stupid to spend $100 on some RCA's in my opinion. some people say that the expensive ones offer better shielding, which is true, but if installed correctly you can't tell a difference between a $5 and $100 set except for the appearance. that's just me though.
and you won't need to run the wire under your car, generally you should only run a wire under a car as an absolute last resort. what kind of car is it?? someone here should be able to tell you a place in the firewall to run it through.
-UK
Mr._Miyagi on 04/13/2005 22:27:58
Well, the dude I bought it from, now that he has the money doesnt seem to be responding to my email. I guess I'll bet on it being 4 ohm DVC.
As for the wires, you said the 4 gauge from Walmart comes up short, do you mean literally, it is too short or figuratively, it's no good? I kinda don't want to order online, cuz I want to do this install ASAP so I can be happy with my Bass. I called Autozone and they seem to have wiring kits though I don't know how much better they will be then Walmart.
In regards to the wiring, I am putting it in a 1991 Mazda 626 Automatic. For the hole in the Fire wall, what am I looking for? is it an actual hole that wires are just going through or what? I have a digital camera so I could probably take pictures if it would help.
Can't Thank you folks enough
-Eli
UKinstaller on 04/14/2005 00:38:30
it comes up short literally. you need about 17ft of power wire to do it comfortably, and the wal-mart kit comes with like 8 or 10 feet, a distribution block, and 8 gauge wires to run off of that. it never reaches. autozone kits are no better.
if there is no rubber grommet in your firewall that you are capable of running a power wire through, then you have to drill a hole in the firewall to run the power wire through. it's not that hard, pics of the dash might help.
NHenson1@hotmail.com (e-mail address)
-UK
Mr._Miyagi on 04/14/2005 19:33:10
So if the Autozone and Walmart Wiring kits are to short, where can i get it from that is not online and does not cost an absurd amount?
ssallstar598 on 04/14/2005 22:41:38
you could probably get 4 gauge wire from home depot by the foot fairly cheap
Mr._Miyagi on 04/14/2005 22:45:05
goood idea!
ssallstar598 on 04/14/2005 22:47:36
it wont be cosmetically apealing but frankly id rather have save money on wire over cosmetics.....
Mr._Miyagi on 04/14/2005 22:49:16
yeah I agree thanks for the suggestion, I think i will do that, get a kit from either autozone or walmart and just buy however much 4 gauge I need, crimp em together and have a ball. Good lookin out.
ssallstar598 on 04/14/2005 22:54:43
good luck and lemme know how it works out (im gonna be running another amp and if the home depot wire is cheap like i think it is thatd be perfect for me lol)
Mr._Miyagi on 04/16/2005 16:27:32
I decided that doing the install myself is to much work so I will prob have bestbuy or circuitcity or something do it for me, though I hate paying 40 bucks for wiring I know doesn't cost that much.
lessismorespl on 04/16/2005 22:22:38
I recently was at a training seminar for electrical issues in car audio sponsered by various manufacturers. Lets start w/ the wire, you are look at some strong resistence if you use the the wire Home Depot/Lowes sells, or welding wire, etc. I know it is cheap, you will lose voltage. The test I witnessed ran 18' of 3 different manufacturers wire, and 18' of welding wire and the copper residential wire they sell at Home Depot/Lowes, the difference between Streetwires, JL Audio, and Stinger was not much....
-.3/-.5/-.7......this all changed when using the welding wire and residential wire, the difference was -1.8 volts from residential and
-1.4 from welding wire. Now this may not warrant much concern, but I would rather spend a few dollars more and have that extra voltage running to my amp, rather than have my alt work that much harder to get the voltage to my amp. If your lights start dimming, do a Big 3 Upgrade, it is inexspensive and fairly easy to do, a capacitor will just add to over working the alt and add even more resistence. I have been researching capacitors and extra batteries for over 4 yrs now, they are great for big competition systems that have 2 or 3 HO alts and have 4K-20K of wattage, but for the layman, they are not needed, and in fact can cause more problems than help, the more capacitors, batteries, etc...the harder your alt works to keep it all charged.....you have to remember, capacitors and deep cycle batteries discharge quicker than they charge.
Mr. Miyagi, do you have a good audio shop around, I would go w/ them over Best Buy or Circuit City, they are more willing to deal and have more room to deal w/ installation accessories and wiring, CC & BBY have set prices and cannot deal b/c they do not have the room to deal, I'm sure if you get a quote from both and go to a independant shop, they will give you the same price or lower and you will receive more professional work. Just soemthing to think about.
Mr._Miyagi on 04/17/2005 00:06:01
yeah I want to go somewhere else, especially after learning the price from CC and BB, which they said would be about 160 bucks...So...Either I find somewhere better/cheaper or I try to do it myself again...If anyone is in the Chicago Area or knows of anywhere good in the Chicago Area, please let me know. I tried looking online and such without to much luck. I found one place ABCelectronics or something like that which is like 50 bucks plus wiring and I a friend had two subs installed at some place called "G's" in the Ghetto for about 50 bucks (not sure if that includes wiring, she didn't say).
Anywhooooooo thanks for the advice about the wires, very interesting. On that note, when I installed my 6.5'' speakers, I patched in about 6 inches Ace Hardware wire with the existing wire. Do you think that is making a noticable difference since even though the distance in shorter, the power is also much smaller from the HU than an amp?
lessismorespl on 04/17/2005 10:00:57
Not really, maybe some to the speakers, but not enough to make a difference. The difference falls when you are running lets say over 10 ft of wire. After several experiments, Streetwires has the least resistence, then JL Audio, next is Stinger and KnuKonceptz which are about the same, then it just falls off after that.
Here are some phone #'s to places in the Chicago area:
Sound Design, Inc (708)749-9000
Audio Consultants (312) 642-5950
Paul Heath Audio Limited (773) 549-8100
These may help, to give you an idea of installation cost, most places charge $70 + wiring to install an amp plus $10-$20 for shop supplies(wire, ring terminals, etc..)
I really do not think it would be too hard to do yourself, buy a decent amp kit(about $35-$50), try to get one that includes the RCA's, if not, buy a set of RCA's($15-$20), and everything else should be fairly easy.
Mr._Miyagi on 04/17/2005 12:46:29
Hey thanks a lot for the places, I will call them today. Just out of curiousity, how did you find these places?
lessismorespl on 04/17/2005 22:12:03
I use to travel all the time for competitions, so I have made several friends all over the US, actually, all over the world. I just called one of my friends and ask him if there were any good shops there that do quality work other than CC or BBY. He says Sound Design is probably the best.
Mr._Miyagi on 04/17/2005 22:13:15
o, thats cool, thanks for the hook up
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
