http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18797&item=5767094703&rd=1
This amp claims to have a RMS rating of 2300W @ 1-ohm.... from anyones experience with these amps - would you say this is possible (becaude the price is awsome for that kinda power)!!!!!!! THINK
Or would you say this figure would be 'doctored' by outragous power input and packed on dry-ice to get that kind of power out of this amp?
Thanks in advance - Simon
Replies (9)
swez on 04/12/2005 11:51:28
PA makes some pretty decent power amps in the SPL Comp arena. Are there better amps out there? Yes, but expect to shop hard and pay more for them as well.
One thing you need to understand about SPL amps... they require huge current draw to produce the high SPL watts stated. This amp will pull roughly 150 to 200A at full 2300 Wrms @ 1 ohm loads. If doing just "burp tones" for SPL test, ALT/BAT may need to be tweaked for more power output to feed this amp. A large Surge Cap of 3.5 - 5.0 Farads may do the trick.
However, if you plan to run this amp hard for everyday uses, a larger ALT/BAT and heavy gage feed wires. (The "Big 3 wires") will also need to be modified to #2 gage wires or more.
We have several SPL guys on this site that have way more experience in this than I care to have. Wait til they check in and comment. Guys like POwerLifter, Lessismore come to mind. Wait for their comments before you make any firm plans OK?
Swez
simon on 04/12/2005 19:15:46
What do u mean by the 'BIG 3' for wires? Ive never heard that term. As for 150-200A for my alternator - that seems very high... any idea what kinda range a stock alternator puts out (I have a 03 Tiburon - V6) but I have NO idea what kinda power my alternator puts out. There are shops in my area that can re-core my alternator - do u think it should hold-up (does this void my warranty on the car?)
Geez - this whole hi-power car audio system is lookin more & more expensive as that little bass-bug keeps biting...
P0werLifter on 04/13/2005 04:32:42
In regards to your 1st questin about the PowerAcoustik 3000dB amplifier (im assuming thats the model , didnt looka t the link but the spec 2300 @ 1ohm ring a bell) I currently run this amplifier and for the money, I havnt had any problems with it. Is it truley pumping out 2300watts @ 1 ohm.......I doubt it. Is it efficient and trustworthy for everyday daily driver use....Yes. Does it provide enough wattage for the average listener / beginner SPL enthusiest....Yes.
People tend to bag on P.A. proclaiming their equipment isnt up to par, they might be somewhat true, but they are good start amplifiers in my opinion. For the person that doesnt want to spend a ton of money for a top end amplifier, their fine.
As far as what Swez was hitting on about upgrading your electrical system, he is dead on. To run a system that provides close to 2300watts of output you will have to upgrade your stock electrical system.
I'd venture to guess your current alternator is no more than 00ampers, and is most likely a little less,,,maybe in the 70-100ampere range.
When Swez references the "Big 3" wiring, he is talking about upgrading your 1. Alternator to Battery 2. Battery to Ground, 3. Engine Block to ground wires. By upgrading to a larger wire more current is allowed through the wire, making it more efficient.
To start off, id reccomend upgrading the wiring of the Big 3, and getting a new battery that has 800 Cold Cranking Amps or higher (the higher the better). If you still have dimming problems your best bet would be to spend the money to upgrade your alternator, whether it be to purcahse a High Output, from PowerMaster, Ohio Generators, Stinger, MeanGreen etc. or to have it re-wound at an alternator rebuild shop.
An alternator shop can rewind it to an extent but is limited by the casing size on how big they can go. You would have to call them and give them your automobiles specs to see what they can do with it. (Id reccomend this b4 buying a brand new one just for saving money, but make sure to check around to see about the best price).
With all that being said, if you need more information about equipment demands, power requirements etc, there is a article in the DIY section that i typed up called "Power Systems / SPL basics" if i remeber right (dont quote me) along with many other articles that would be of use for you.
What are your goals here? Budget? Current Setup?
-PL
simon on 04/13/2005 07:49:03
Thanks PowerLifter - your help is greatly appreciated as is everyones insights I've received here over the years.
My set-up goal - *sigh* I really am not too sure... I WAS fairly happy with my 75%SQ - 25%SPL system (500W Earthquake runnin off my EQX) into my 2 JL 10W08's... It sounded strong but I got used to it. Now I want to run my interior speakers off the Earthquake and buy a big a$$ amp to run my subs (I have so many subs here Im not sure which ones to use...) I have 2 10W08's ... 1 10" ALUM10Q ... 1 10" MTX 8000 ... 2 12" MTX Thunder4000's ... 4 Visonik 106D4's ... decisions decisions.... I guess I'll wait until I get my amp and then try my subs one at a time until I find the setup I want or maybe I'll sell them all off and buy a 15" ID MAX or something.
swez on 04/13/2005 08:13:23
We cannot sanction sales off this site at this time. Your best bet to sell them is to friends and other buddies or try e-bay.
Personally, do you really need that large a sub amp? The amp is cheap compared to the upgrades in electricals needed to power 2 strong amps. Consider a Class D sub amp that is 1-2 ohms stable, puts out 600-1000 Wrms and perhaps 2 x 12's for woofers.
Swez
simon on 04/13/2005 09:43:41
sorry for the plug Swez - i deleted it... my bad.... So u think Im overkilling it? Baybe it's just the setup rather than the equipment Im using... Ive got quite a collection of decent components (IMHO) ... the EQX, my old-school green Clarion 50x2 amp - Cerwin components - Pioneer components - Infinity 4x6 plate - PowerHouse500 amp... and then all those subs I mentioned above - So why am i still not happy ????
Im running @ 500W RMS now so my thinking was if I bought an amp that would push 2000+ W RMS Id be hitting approx +8dB to +10dB more...
swez on 04/13/2005 18:28:06
The system design, install techniques and bill of goods are the 3 main issues for a quality setup. Having adequate power to run all amps to potential, is the item you may run into here. Can you call the dealer or a good parts store and find out what that ALT is actually rated for? Knowing that parameter, we can talk more intelligently about your future options.
Tell more about your bass preferences. Do you like tight, punchy bass typical in Rock/Jazz or the deep drone sounds of Rap and HH? With that info, we can also help target subs and amps to deliever what you want.
Not very familiar with that vehicle. Is it a sedan or hatchback design? If you have a sedan and the rear seats do not fold down for long cargo needs, some have opened an air passage way (port of sorts) into the main cabin and gained as much as +5dB more bass with that alone. (verified with an SPL meter too)
Tell me more about that PowerHouse 500 Amp you have. Got a link... even better. If it's a 2 channel amp, nets 500 Wrms when bridged to a 4 ohm load, that should be a fine bass amp with an efficient sub/enclosure design. That Clarion 2 channel should be adequate for the front stage speakers too. Assuming it is a true 50 Wrms x2 @ 4 ohms. A larger amp for fron stage would be nice for quality Comps. Depends on your budget and power available.
Finally, having that EQX on hand can be a real aid to better than average SQL. Again, it's the setup used and tweaking that make all the difference. Hang on to that puppy.
Swez
simon on 04/14/2005 01:29:26
OK... in terms of bass prefference ... I like my classic rock : my wife likes HopHop & R&B... So I tried to find a balance... As many here know once you get a taste of nice bass - it gets addicting... Thats when I started buying subs that were smaller with higher efficienies (my thinking that 3 10's are tighter and faster than 2 15's each offering 30" of cone)... After several purchases and a rather large subwoofer collection (I even went as far to get a CUSTOM box made to match with exact theil parameters...another 130 bucks *sigh*)... It's just not LOUD enough bass.
The car is new so i havent installed my stuff into it - but Tiburon interior is a hatchback with fold-down rear seats. There's a lifting rear shelf that covers the cargo area when the glass is down. So when u put down seats - it looks simular to what my 02 Cavalier did.
As for the amp..... well... http://www.equip.dk/shop/default.asp?ProductID=748 (heres a link....) except mine has a glossy black casing.... is it possible my amp is just getting weak? Does this happen to amps over time (mine's probabally 6-7 years old)?
As for the Clarion - man that little baby really puts out a lot of good sound. It's maybe 12-15 years old - but the hand-wound coil inside is probabally close to 3" in diameter and its huge. The 50x2@4-ohm rating is VERY underrated. I've been running the Cerwin components in the doors and my Pioneer components in the rear wired in series off the amp so it runs @ 2ohms.
So how do I go about using all this equipment so AC/DC sounds and 'feels' just as good as 50-Cent ??? Would a car-audio shop with a RTA be able to tune it better? Ive been doing it by ear and from what others tell me it sounds impressivley balanced...Maybe a bit weak on the bass, but close (I had to turn down the Clarion *can u believe that*). I was tempted to put in a bandpass PLUS a sealed box - but my hatch would be full and unusable (hence the wife would kill me when she takes the car shopping) :P
swez on 04/14/2005 10:13:55
That Earthquake should easily power a pair of decent 10's or 12" subs. Assuming it is up to par and putting out rated power. The best way to use that amp, is to bridge it to MONO and use a net 4 ohm load for subs. A pair of 4+4 DVC's will give that mentioned 4 ohms. (250 Wrms/sub) A pair of 300 Wrms subs will do the job well.
As for the box, sealed boxes are the smallest and provide good tight bass for Rock. If you used a box in the middle range of the subs' accepable range, more deep bass comes naturally at the small sacrifice of less power handling.
If more bass is desired, can move to a ported box design and tune the port(s) for 35-40 Hz. A subsonic Filter is recommended for ported boxes to protect your woofers.
Finally, have you tried flipping down the passenger side rear seat and listen to the bass that way? Should produce a notable increase in bass into the cabin. Aim the subs toward the back bumper of the car.
Swez
PS Depending on how the amps are wired and how much HU voltage is available to each amp, you may want to look into a Line Drive/EQ unit. These can give you more signal line voltage to each amp as you may be lacking enough signal power for dual amps, if the HU is only pushing 2.0 volts. Am outta time for now...gotta run
This amp claims to have a RMS rating of 2300W @ 1-ohm.... from anyones experience with these amps - would you say this is possible (becaude the price is awsome for that kinda power)!!!!!!! THINK
Or would you say this figure would be 'doctored' by outragous power input and packed on dry-ice to get that kind of power out of this amp?
Thanks in advance - Simon
Replies (9)
swez on 04/12/2005 11:51:28
PA makes some pretty decent power amps in the SPL Comp arena. Are there better amps out there? Yes, but expect to shop hard and pay more for them as well.
One thing you need to understand about SPL amps... they require huge current draw to produce the high SPL watts stated. This amp will pull roughly 150 to 200A at full 2300 Wrms @ 1 ohm loads. If doing just "burp tones" for SPL test, ALT/BAT may need to be tweaked for more power output to feed this amp. A large Surge Cap of 3.5 - 5.0 Farads may do the trick.
However, if you plan to run this amp hard for everyday uses, a larger ALT/BAT and heavy gage feed wires. (The "Big 3 wires") will also need to be modified to #2 gage wires or more.
We have several SPL guys on this site that have way more experience in this than I care to have. Wait til they check in and comment. Guys like POwerLifter, Lessismore come to mind. Wait for their comments before you make any firm plans OK?
Swez
simon on 04/12/2005 19:15:46
What do u mean by the 'BIG 3' for wires? Ive never heard that term. As for 150-200A for my alternator - that seems very high... any idea what kinda range a stock alternator puts out (I have a 03 Tiburon - V6) but I have NO idea what kinda power my alternator puts out. There are shops in my area that can re-core my alternator - do u think it should hold-up (does this void my warranty on the car?)
Geez - this whole hi-power car audio system is lookin more & more expensive as that little bass-bug keeps biting...
P0werLifter on 04/13/2005 04:32:42
In regards to your 1st questin about the PowerAcoustik 3000dB amplifier (im assuming thats the model , didnt looka t the link but the spec 2300 @ 1ohm ring a bell) I currently run this amplifier and for the money, I havnt had any problems with it. Is it truley pumping out 2300watts @ 1 ohm.......I doubt it. Is it efficient and trustworthy for everyday daily driver use....Yes. Does it provide enough wattage for the average listener / beginner SPL enthusiest....Yes.
People tend to bag on P.A. proclaiming their equipment isnt up to par, they might be somewhat true, but they are good start amplifiers in my opinion. For the person that doesnt want to spend a ton of money for a top end amplifier, their fine.
As far as what Swez was hitting on about upgrading your electrical system, he is dead on. To run a system that provides close to 2300watts of output you will have to upgrade your stock electrical system.
I'd venture to guess your current alternator is no more than 00ampers, and is most likely a little less,,,maybe in the 70-100ampere range.
When Swez references the "Big 3" wiring, he is talking about upgrading your 1. Alternator to Battery 2. Battery to Ground, 3. Engine Block to ground wires. By upgrading to a larger wire more current is allowed through the wire, making it more efficient.
To start off, id reccomend upgrading the wiring of the Big 3, and getting a new battery that has 800 Cold Cranking Amps or higher (the higher the better). If you still have dimming problems your best bet would be to spend the money to upgrade your alternator, whether it be to purcahse a High Output, from PowerMaster, Ohio Generators, Stinger, MeanGreen etc. or to have it re-wound at an alternator rebuild shop.
An alternator shop can rewind it to an extent but is limited by the casing size on how big they can go. You would have to call them and give them your automobiles specs to see what they can do with it. (Id reccomend this b4 buying a brand new one just for saving money, but make sure to check around to see about the best price).
With all that being said, if you need more information about equipment demands, power requirements etc, there is a article in the DIY section that i typed up called "Power Systems / SPL basics" if i remeber right (dont quote me) along with many other articles that would be of use for you.
What are your goals here? Budget? Current Setup?
-PL
simon on 04/13/2005 07:49:03
Thanks PowerLifter - your help is greatly appreciated as is everyones insights I've received here over the years.
My set-up goal - *sigh* I really am not too sure... I WAS fairly happy with my 75%SQ - 25%SPL system (500W Earthquake runnin off my EQX) into my 2 JL 10W08's... It sounded strong but I got used to it. Now I want to run my interior speakers off the Earthquake and buy a big a$$ amp to run my subs (I have so many subs here Im not sure which ones to use...) I have 2 10W08's ... 1 10" ALUM10Q ... 1 10" MTX 8000 ... 2 12" MTX Thunder4000's ... 4 Visonik 106D4's ... decisions decisions.... I guess I'll wait until I get my amp and then try my subs one at a time until I find the setup I want or maybe I'll sell them all off and buy a 15" ID MAX or something.
swez on 04/13/2005 08:13:23
We cannot sanction sales off this site at this time. Your best bet to sell them is to friends and other buddies or try e-bay.
Personally, do you really need that large a sub amp? The amp is cheap compared to the upgrades in electricals needed to power 2 strong amps. Consider a Class D sub amp that is 1-2 ohms stable, puts out 600-1000 Wrms and perhaps 2 x 12's for woofers.
Swez
simon on 04/13/2005 09:43:41
sorry for the plug Swez - i deleted it... my bad.... So u think Im overkilling it? Baybe it's just the setup rather than the equipment Im using... Ive got quite a collection of decent components (IMHO) ... the EQX, my old-school green Clarion 50x2 amp - Cerwin components - Pioneer components - Infinity 4x6 plate - PowerHouse500 amp... and then all those subs I mentioned above - So why am i still not happy ????
Im running @ 500W RMS now so my thinking was if I bought an amp that would push 2000+ W RMS Id be hitting approx +8dB to +10dB more...
swez on 04/13/2005 18:28:06
The system design, install techniques and bill of goods are the 3 main issues for a quality setup. Having adequate power to run all amps to potential, is the item you may run into here. Can you call the dealer or a good parts store and find out what that ALT is actually rated for? Knowing that parameter, we can talk more intelligently about your future options.
Tell more about your bass preferences. Do you like tight, punchy bass typical in Rock/Jazz or the deep drone sounds of Rap and HH? With that info, we can also help target subs and amps to deliever what you want.
Not very familiar with that vehicle. Is it a sedan or hatchback design? If you have a sedan and the rear seats do not fold down for long cargo needs, some have opened an air passage way (port of sorts) into the main cabin and gained as much as +5dB more bass with that alone. (verified with an SPL meter too)
Tell me more about that PowerHouse 500 Amp you have. Got a link... even better. If it's a 2 channel amp, nets 500 Wrms when bridged to a 4 ohm load, that should be a fine bass amp with an efficient sub/enclosure design. That Clarion 2 channel should be adequate for the front stage speakers too. Assuming it is a true 50 Wrms x2 @ 4 ohms. A larger amp for fron stage would be nice for quality Comps. Depends on your budget and power available.
Finally, having that EQX on hand can be a real aid to better than average SQL. Again, it's the setup used and tweaking that make all the difference. Hang on to that puppy.
Swez
simon on 04/14/2005 01:29:26
OK... in terms of bass prefference ... I like my classic rock : my wife likes HopHop & R&B... So I tried to find a balance... As many here know once you get a taste of nice bass - it gets addicting... Thats when I started buying subs that were smaller with higher efficienies (my thinking that 3 10's are tighter and faster than 2 15's each offering 30" of cone)... After several purchases and a rather large subwoofer collection (I even went as far to get a CUSTOM box made to match with exact theil parameters...another 130 bucks *sigh*)... It's just not LOUD enough bass.
The car is new so i havent installed my stuff into it - but Tiburon interior is a hatchback with fold-down rear seats. There's a lifting rear shelf that covers the cargo area when the glass is down. So when u put down seats - it looks simular to what my 02 Cavalier did.
As for the amp..... well... http://www.equip.dk/shop/default.asp?ProductID=748 (heres a link....) except mine has a glossy black casing.... is it possible my amp is just getting weak? Does this happen to amps over time (mine's probabally 6-7 years old)?
As for the Clarion - man that little baby really puts out a lot of good sound. It's maybe 12-15 years old - but the hand-wound coil inside is probabally close to 3" in diameter and its huge. The 50x2@4-ohm rating is VERY underrated. I've been running the Cerwin components in the doors and my Pioneer components in the rear wired in series off the amp so it runs @ 2ohms.
So how do I go about using all this equipment so AC/DC sounds and 'feels' just as good as 50-Cent ??? Would a car-audio shop with a RTA be able to tune it better? Ive been doing it by ear and from what others tell me it sounds impressivley balanced...Maybe a bit weak on the bass, but close (I had to turn down the Clarion *can u believe that*). I was tempted to put in a bandpass PLUS a sealed box - but my hatch would be full and unusable (hence the wife would kill me when she takes the car shopping) :P
swez on 04/14/2005 10:13:55
That Earthquake should easily power a pair of decent 10's or 12" subs. Assuming it is up to par and putting out rated power. The best way to use that amp, is to bridge it to MONO and use a net 4 ohm load for subs. A pair of 4+4 DVC's will give that mentioned 4 ohms. (250 Wrms/sub) A pair of 300 Wrms subs will do the job well.
As for the box, sealed boxes are the smallest and provide good tight bass for Rock. If you used a box in the middle range of the subs' accepable range, more deep bass comes naturally at the small sacrifice of less power handling.
If more bass is desired, can move to a ported box design and tune the port(s) for 35-40 Hz. A subsonic Filter is recommended for ported boxes to protect your woofers.
Finally, have you tried flipping down the passenger side rear seat and listen to the bass that way? Should produce a notable increase in bass into the cabin. Aim the subs toward the back bumper of the car.
Swez
PS Depending on how the amps are wired and how much HU voltage is available to each amp, you may want to look into a Line Drive/EQ unit. These can give you more signal line voltage to each amp as you may be lacking enough signal power for dual amps, if the HU is only pushing 2.0 volts. Am outta time for now...gotta run
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