Hello again,
I've been looking for a while for an amp for 2 Infinity perfect 10.1 subs, and found a lot of good ones, but I've since decided to sell the 2 10s and go with just one so I wouldn't be coming close to needing electrical upgrades.
I was going to get an Infinity Perfect 10.1d (DVC) and hook it up to an amp like the Infinity 310a, or JBL BP300.1 (or something of that nature).
Well, I figgured I'd get some oppinions on this sub/amp setup since I won't be buying them for a while (still saving). I'm going for SQ or SQL (as much as my alt. and battery can take). I really like the Perfect series with infinity, and the Alpine type R, I welcome any oppinions on a better SQ/SQL sub though. I will be putting the sub in a sealed enclosure.
I would like to spend around $180ish for the amp and can go as high as around $150ish for the sub.
I do a lot of shopping around on Ebay and cardomain to find the best prices so I already know I can get a good amp that puts out around 300-350W rms at 2 ohms and the Infinity perfect sub for less than my budget. Just curious if there are any better subs for the price (power handling anywhere from 300W rms to around 500W rms).
I'm still debating on a single 10, or a single 12...
(FYI, if you're going to give me a better option than the Infinity Perfect, you better have a strong case for doing so ;). I did see Lessismore's post about not liking them too much and I'll admit that my feelings were a little hurt, (LOL), but I am willing to be open minded. I consider his input to be as strong as a gold's here anyway.
Thanks in advance,
Replies (11)
Victor on 04/11/2005 15:46:47
Well i agree with lessismore and , say that.." I am not impressed with the infinity subs, not even the 'perfect'"
I would close my eyes and take the Type R's over the infinity any day..
If you like to listen to a prominent bass, then a 12 wud be much better then a single 10, if you are a serious SQ lover then a 10 wud be good for you, but of what i have seen. most of us are looking for a decent mix of SQ and SPL . So its finally up to u to decide what kinda of sound and music you wud like to listen to .
So I guess a 12" sub in a sealed enclosure with 300wrms to 400wrms, and a trustworthy class D monobloc is the best option for you.
Victor...
alanjlamore on 04/12/2005 08:50:00
Thanks for the info. I think I will be going with one 12" sub in a sealed box.
I hear a lot about the Type R subs and long ago when I bought my Infinitys I compared the specs and figgured with slightly higher power handling (300 compared to 350) and a higher sensitivity rating, plus all the great reviews on cardomain, I picked the Infinity Perfect.
Now I see that the power handling of the Alpine Type R is 500W rms, but they still have a much lower sesitivity rating (although I don't know if I'd be able to tell the difference).
So, what makes the Type Rs better? I'm just not seeing it when comparing sub for sub, but then again, I haven't heard both subs with the same input to realy compare (unfortunately I won't be able to do this).
Would the higher power handling make up for the lower sensitivity, or is it the material that the sub is made out of?
If these are the better choice, is there a better sub in that power range that costs more?
Thanks again,
montego_27 on 04/12/2005 10:24:40
This isn't even a close race! Without question, the Alpine type R's I've heard both on the same amp.
Put that 12" in a sealed enclosure,Run something like an Alpine MRD-M501, or the M-301,or the JBL and see what happens. BOOM! That sub will hit you like a cannon, especially in your Dakota!
swez on 04/12/2005 10:45:37
If you have the Infinity sub(s) already, by all means... try one out. It will be your reference point for listening to other subs as well.
FYI: Infinity seems to rate their subs with an "IN CAR" reference point. Have no idea what that "really means". An off the cuff guess, they use a base line reference of 2.83 volts input (like most others use) and add a few more dB for cabin gain effects and come up with a general figure nobody can really challenge legally. However, per their spec test methods (that nobody else uses) their SPL eff #'s seem to be notably higher than others. Until somebody shows me different, that's what I "believe" Infinity is doing here. A bit different parameters about rating their subs then the rest of the industry. (Any comments out there guys?)
Honestly, both Infinity and Alpine are a good blend of SPL and SQ sub designs. Both will do a pretty good job with bass, within power and enclosure recommendations given in their manuals. Putting the specs and numbers aside, using our ears to be the judge, is the best acid test. The one that sounds best to a given listener and meets their power and budget needs, is the "best option" for them.
Yes, we all have our preferences and opinions too. That's why we share information like this with others. However, others have to be the judge based on their own parameters.
Does that make sense to you?
Swez
Pinch on 04/12/2005 11:05:50
Ok, I just wrote a long and boring post in response to this topic...but I didn't like reading it myself so why would anyone else want to read it? Anyway if you want more info than what I post below, just lemme know. I will happily go into more detail before you make the mistake of buying something you won't be happy with.
Anyway so I agree with Montego and apparently with Lessismore, though I have not read his legendary "anti-Infinity pro-Alpine" post you mentioned above. I would go with Alpine and I will take it a step further to say I would go with Alpine Type E before I go with Infinity anything (yes, even Kappa or Kappa-Perfect). In fact, my ideal setup is two Alpine type E 10" subs in a sealed enclosure with a 500W amp pushing the pair. Yes, Type-Rs are louder but nothing either company makes is cleaner than the Type E. You said you were going for SQ...maybe SQL I say, you are going for Alpine...maybe Type E. First off, I challenge anyone on the forum who has heard them to tell me Type E's don't sound awesome. I'll bet dollars to pesos nobody will do it because the fact is, they DO sound awesome. Everytime I install a system at work I set my own expectations for the system prior to hearing it. If the subs are Alpine, I am automatically going to expect more out of the system than if they were, say Infinity subs (and this just comes from experience...not a particular grudge against Infinity or anything). See, Infinity subs look awesome on paper, but they fail to deliver in many areas. My buddy has 2 10" Perfect subs in his car. He's pushing them with an MTX 801D (an awesome sub-amp). The only thing I can say about this setup is that it does a fantastic job of letting you know there is bass in the car. Yes, it does "bump." What it doesn't do is show you what 2 10" subs are capable of. It builds you up to awesome bass..then kind of peters off before delivering a full punch. I liken the experience to biting into an overcooked Filet Mignon. It looks awesome...and by all acounts should be the best thing a cow can deliver but it just isn't what it could be.
Pinch
Pinch on 04/12/2005 11:09:19
Sorry if I came off harsh or something. I didn't mean to... I just really like how Alpine subs sound and want you to be happy with your decision. As Swez said...if you have already purchased the Infinity, I hope it is everything you want it to be. :)
Pinch
alanjlamore on 04/12/2005 11:13:32
Yea, I think I got a little brain washed from reading and re-reading all of those reviews on cardomain for the Infinity. Of course I can't see raitings on cardomain for the Type R sub because cardomain doesn't sell Alpine...
I was reading more about sensitivity ratings on bcae1.com and they do say to be carefull because they can be rated differently.
I have heard so many good things about the Type Rs here, and the main reason I went with the Infinity Perfect was because they were rated to handle 50W rms more than the Type Rs (I know, I know).
Now the new Type R subs are rated at 500W rms and their Xmax is also a bit higher, plus they have more of a range in the size of the box they can go in.
The main thing I was concerned about was the sensitivity rating, but I'm starting to think that I can't trust this without knowing exactly how they came up with their numbers.
That's why this site is so great.
That MRD-M501 looks good too, along with the MTX Thunder 421D.
Thanks for the suggestions and advice.
I had the 2 Infinitys underpowered (100W rms to each) and they were single voice coil, so I knew I would be selling them on ebay anyway to get a DVC sub (dual 4ohm).
I think I'd be happy with either, but if I compare the reviews I've seen (great reviews for Perfects from people I've never heard of, or great reviews for the Type Rs from a respectable site with VERY knowlegable people) it would make sence to go with the Alpine.
Thanks again,
alanjlamore on 04/12/2005 11:20:02
Thanks Pinch. I was making my post while you were so I didn't see it 'till now.
Didn't come off too harsh at all to me. I was asking for oppinions and I'm glad I got them.
I'm selling the perfects right now on ebay and will most likely go with the Alpine Type R 12", although I havn't looked into the Type E, so I'll check that out too.
I had it in my head that since I was going to just use one sub, I needed a DVC sub and automatically thought of the same brand I had. That's why I started this post since I figgured there could be better out there and I didn't make any definit decisions yet.
Now I think I'll be glad I waited.
swez on 04/12/2005 18:43:18
Alpine subs in summary:
SWX Series: 1000 Wrms
SWR Series: 500 Wrms
SWS Series: 300 Wrms
SWE Series: 250 Wrms
In your case, base the sub you choose on pwer handling and VC configuration available. If you need a 2 ohm net load, use a single DVC 4+4 in parallel. If using dual subs, get a pair of 2+2 DVC's and wire series/parallel.
If you use a Class A/B amp in bridged mode, use a 2+2 DVC (both coils in series = 4 ohms) Dual subs: A pair of 4+4 DVC's in series parallel = 4 ohms.
Hope that helps,
Swez
PS I see that Alpine has give ol man Swez some kuddos and name a sub series after same... the SWE series. Guess they did not want to break tradition in naming any sub with 4 letter designators. Oh well, am pleased they did it anyway. Thanks Alpine! (j/k guys) LOL
lessismorespl on 04/12/2005 19:49:37
I'm really not anti-Infinity Pinch, I'm just not impressed w/ them. Also, I really do not like their customer service. I agree, I have had the Type E, and the Type R, they are great sounding subs, my friend still has the Type E's running and he loves them. i'm also not impressed w/ the Infinity speakers, components or otherwise, they just do not have the sound quality that other speakers in the same price range have. I really like the Kenwood eXcelon coaxials, not impressed w/ the Dual Mag Comps but I like the coaxials, IMHO the eXcelon coaxials are very hard to beat when compared to other speakers in the same price range. You will be much happier w/ the Alpines, I run JL Audio W3V2's now, and must admit I kinda miss the Type R's.....we'll have to wait and see after I go to either JL W6's or the Resonant Engineering SE's.
PS Swez gets a sub named after him and all I have to go w/ my name is toilet paper commercial!
alanjlamore on 04/12/2005 20:20:16
Well, I've been talked into it, and as soon as I get paid for the subs I'm selling on ebay (if someone buys them), I'm going to buy the 12" Alpine Type R 4ohm DVC sub, then a couple more weeks and I'll get the amp Alpine MRD-M501, MTX Thunder 421D or something similar amp wise.
Now after trying to figgure out what you meant, I have to get that Cha Cha Cha...Charmin song out of my head!
THANKS AGAIN!! I'm sure I'll be thanking everyone even more once I hook up my sub and amp.
I've been looking for a while for an amp for 2 Infinity perfect 10.1 subs, and found a lot of good ones, but I've since decided to sell the 2 10s and go with just one so I wouldn't be coming close to needing electrical upgrades.
I was going to get an Infinity Perfect 10.1d (DVC) and hook it up to an amp like the Infinity 310a, or JBL BP300.1 (or something of that nature).
Well, I figgured I'd get some oppinions on this sub/amp setup since I won't be buying them for a while (still saving). I'm going for SQ or SQL (as much as my alt. and battery can take). I really like the Perfect series with infinity, and the Alpine type R, I welcome any oppinions on a better SQ/SQL sub though. I will be putting the sub in a sealed enclosure.
I would like to spend around $180ish for the amp and can go as high as around $150ish for the sub.
I do a lot of shopping around on Ebay and cardomain to find the best prices so I already know I can get a good amp that puts out around 300-350W rms at 2 ohms and the Infinity perfect sub for less than my budget. Just curious if there are any better subs for the price (power handling anywhere from 300W rms to around 500W rms).
I'm still debating on a single 10, or a single 12...
(FYI, if you're going to give me a better option than the Infinity Perfect, you better have a strong case for doing so ;). I did see Lessismore's post about not liking them too much and I'll admit that my feelings were a little hurt, (LOL), but I am willing to be open minded. I consider his input to be as strong as a gold's here anyway.
Thanks in advance,
Replies (11)
Victor on 04/11/2005 15:46:47
Well i agree with lessismore and , say that.." I am not impressed with the infinity subs, not even the 'perfect'"
I would close my eyes and take the Type R's over the infinity any day..
If you like to listen to a prominent bass, then a 12 wud be much better then a single 10, if you are a serious SQ lover then a 10 wud be good for you, but of what i have seen. most of us are looking for a decent mix of SQ and SPL . So its finally up to u to decide what kinda of sound and music you wud like to listen to .
So I guess a 12" sub in a sealed enclosure with 300wrms to 400wrms, and a trustworthy class D monobloc is the best option for you.
Victor...
alanjlamore on 04/12/2005 08:50:00
Thanks for the info. I think I will be going with one 12" sub in a sealed box.
I hear a lot about the Type R subs and long ago when I bought my Infinitys I compared the specs and figgured with slightly higher power handling (300 compared to 350) and a higher sensitivity rating, plus all the great reviews on cardomain, I picked the Infinity Perfect.
Now I see that the power handling of the Alpine Type R is 500W rms, but they still have a much lower sesitivity rating (although I don't know if I'd be able to tell the difference).
So, what makes the Type Rs better? I'm just not seeing it when comparing sub for sub, but then again, I haven't heard both subs with the same input to realy compare (unfortunately I won't be able to do this).
Would the higher power handling make up for the lower sensitivity, or is it the material that the sub is made out of?
If these are the better choice, is there a better sub in that power range that costs more?
Thanks again,
montego_27 on 04/12/2005 10:24:40
This isn't even a close race! Without question, the Alpine type R's I've heard both on the same amp.
Put that 12" in a sealed enclosure,Run something like an Alpine MRD-M501, or the M-301,or the JBL and see what happens. BOOM! That sub will hit you like a cannon, especially in your Dakota!
swez on 04/12/2005 10:45:37
If you have the Infinity sub(s) already, by all means... try one out. It will be your reference point for listening to other subs as well.
FYI: Infinity seems to rate their subs with an "IN CAR" reference point. Have no idea what that "really means". An off the cuff guess, they use a base line reference of 2.83 volts input (like most others use) and add a few more dB for cabin gain effects and come up with a general figure nobody can really challenge legally. However, per their spec test methods (that nobody else uses) their SPL eff #'s seem to be notably higher than others. Until somebody shows me different, that's what I "believe" Infinity is doing here. A bit different parameters about rating their subs then the rest of the industry. (Any comments out there guys?)
Honestly, both Infinity and Alpine are a good blend of SPL and SQ sub designs. Both will do a pretty good job with bass, within power and enclosure recommendations given in their manuals. Putting the specs and numbers aside, using our ears to be the judge, is the best acid test. The one that sounds best to a given listener and meets their power and budget needs, is the "best option" for them.
Yes, we all have our preferences and opinions too. That's why we share information like this with others. However, others have to be the judge based on their own parameters.
Does that make sense to you?
Swez
Pinch on 04/12/2005 11:05:50
Ok, I just wrote a long and boring post in response to this topic...but I didn't like reading it myself so why would anyone else want to read it? Anyway if you want more info than what I post below, just lemme know. I will happily go into more detail before you make the mistake of buying something you won't be happy with.
Anyway so I agree with Montego and apparently with Lessismore, though I have not read his legendary "anti-Infinity pro-Alpine" post you mentioned above. I would go with Alpine and I will take it a step further to say I would go with Alpine Type E before I go with Infinity anything (yes, even Kappa or Kappa-Perfect). In fact, my ideal setup is two Alpine type E 10" subs in a sealed enclosure with a 500W amp pushing the pair. Yes, Type-Rs are louder but nothing either company makes is cleaner than the Type E. You said you were going for SQ...maybe SQL I say, you are going for Alpine...maybe Type E. First off, I challenge anyone on the forum who has heard them to tell me Type E's don't sound awesome. I'll bet dollars to pesos nobody will do it because the fact is, they DO sound awesome. Everytime I install a system at work I set my own expectations for the system prior to hearing it. If the subs are Alpine, I am automatically going to expect more out of the system than if they were, say Infinity subs (and this just comes from experience...not a particular grudge against Infinity or anything). See, Infinity subs look awesome on paper, but they fail to deliver in many areas. My buddy has 2 10" Perfect subs in his car. He's pushing them with an MTX 801D (an awesome sub-amp). The only thing I can say about this setup is that it does a fantastic job of letting you know there is bass in the car. Yes, it does "bump." What it doesn't do is show you what 2 10" subs are capable of. It builds you up to awesome bass..then kind of peters off before delivering a full punch. I liken the experience to biting into an overcooked Filet Mignon. It looks awesome...and by all acounts should be the best thing a cow can deliver but it just isn't what it could be.
Pinch
Pinch on 04/12/2005 11:09:19
Sorry if I came off harsh or something. I didn't mean to... I just really like how Alpine subs sound and want you to be happy with your decision. As Swez said...if you have already purchased the Infinity, I hope it is everything you want it to be. :)
Pinch
alanjlamore on 04/12/2005 11:13:32
Yea, I think I got a little brain washed from reading and re-reading all of those reviews on cardomain for the Infinity. Of course I can't see raitings on cardomain for the Type R sub because cardomain doesn't sell Alpine...
I was reading more about sensitivity ratings on bcae1.com and they do say to be carefull because they can be rated differently.
I have heard so many good things about the Type Rs here, and the main reason I went with the Infinity Perfect was because they were rated to handle 50W rms more than the Type Rs (I know, I know).
Now the new Type R subs are rated at 500W rms and their Xmax is also a bit higher, plus they have more of a range in the size of the box they can go in.
The main thing I was concerned about was the sensitivity rating, but I'm starting to think that I can't trust this without knowing exactly how they came up with their numbers.
That's why this site is so great.
That MRD-M501 looks good too, along with the MTX Thunder 421D.
Thanks for the suggestions and advice.
I had the 2 Infinitys underpowered (100W rms to each) and they were single voice coil, so I knew I would be selling them on ebay anyway to get a DVC sub (dual 4ohm).
I think I'd be happy with either, but if I compare the reviews I've seen (great reviews for Perfects from people I've never heard of, or great reviews for the Type Rs from a respectable site with VERY knowlegable people) it would make sence to go with the Alpine.
Thanks again,
alanjlamore on 04/12/2005 11:20:02
Thanks Pinch. I was making my post while you were so I didn't see it 'till now.
Didn't come off too harsh at all to me. I was asking for oppinions and I'm glad I got them.
I'm selling the perfects right now on ebay and will most likely go with the Alpine Type R 12", although I havn't looked into the Type E, so I'll check that out too.
I had it in my head that since I was going to just use one sub, I needed a DVC sub and automatically thought of the same brand I had. That's why I started this post since I figgured there could be better out there and I didn't make any definit decisions yet.
Now I think I'll be glad I waited.
swez on 04/12/2005 18:43:18
Alpine subs in summary:
SWX Series: 1000 Wrms
SWR Series: 500 Wrms
SWS Series: 300 Wrms
SWE Series: 250 Wrms
In your case, base the sub you choose on pwer handling and VC configuration available. If you need a 2 ohm net load, use a single DVC 4+4 in parallel. If using dual subs, get a pair of 2+2 DVC's and wire series/parallel.
If you use a Class A/B amp in bridged mode, use a 2+2 DVC (both coils in series = 4 ohms) Dual subs: A pair of 4+4 DVC's in series parallel = 4 ohms.
Hope that helps,
Swez
PS I see that Alpine has give ol man Swez some kuddos and name a sub series after same... the SWE series. Guess they did not want to break tradition in naming any sub with 4 letter designators. Oh well, am pleased they did it anyway. Thanks Alpine! (j/k guys) LOL
lessismorespl on 04/12/2005 19:49:37
I'm really not anti-Infinity Pinch, I'm just not impressed w/ them. Also, I really do not like their customer service. I agree, I have had the Type E, and the Type R, they are great sounding subs, my friend still has the Type E's running and he loves them. i'm also not impressed w/ the Infinity speakers, components or otherwise, they just do not have the sound quality that other speakers in the same price range have. I really like the Kenwood eXcelon coaxials, not impressed w/ the Dual Mag Comps but I like the coaxials, IMHO the eXcelon coaxials are very hard to beat when compared to other speakers in the same price range. You will be much happier w/ the Alpines, I run JL Audio W3V2's now, and must admit I kinda miss the Type R's.....we'll have to wait and see after I go to either JL W6's or the Resonant Engineering SE's.
PS Swez gets a sub named after him and all I have to go w/ my name is toilet paper commercial!
alanjlamore on 04/12/2005 20:20:16
Well, I've been talked into it, and as soon as I get paid for the subs I'm selling on ebay (if someone buys them), I'm going to buy the 12" Alpine Type R 4ohm DVC sub, then a couple more weeks and I'll get the amp Alpine MRD-M501, MTX Thunder 421D or something similar amp wise.
Now after trying to figgure out what you meant, I have to get that Cha Cha Cha...Charmin song out of my head!
THANKS AGAIN!! I'm sure I'll be thanking everyone even more once I hook up my sub and amp.
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