I realy like nice hitting, clear mid bass and would like to add some to my truck.
1) What would be a good midbass crossover cutoff point (I'm thinking 80hz-200hz)?
2) Would mid bass speakers (cut off from around 80hz-200ish hz) still need to have a stereo signal?
The reason I ask this is because I have a 4ch amp that has one bad channel. 2 of the channels are going to my CDT 6.5" components, and I'm getting a class D amp for my sub(s), so I was thinking about using the one unused channel of the amp for 2 mids at 2ohms (which it's stable for).
3) if I'm looking to add some good midbass, which I get from the components, but not enough, so should I overlap any frequencies with the components?
I was thinking of cutting off the CDTs at 80hz (hp); the sub at 80hz (lp); and the extra mids at 80hz (hp), 200hz (lp). This would mean that the front components and the extra mids would both be playing the 80-200hz range.
Thanks is advance, any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Replies (5)
Victor on 04/8/2005 02:08:09
well..
With all your speakers , sub and the MB driver at 80Hz , damn that is some really overlapping reinforced MB sound. If you like too much of MB its ok, but i dont see some real low bass in your setup.
crossing the MB driver at 50 to 250 hz is what I would do , but in that case my subs would be able to go as low as atleast 35Hz.And rest of the speakers would do 80HZ and up.
The reason for doing this is, 35Hz to say a 80HZ sound is very omnidirectional, It is very difficult to localise the sound source. Sound above 80Hz can be recognised by trained ears and sound above a 100Hz can be recognised by common listener.
So as soon as the audio spectrum in the music reaches a level where the point source can be recognised the MB driver picks up the frequencies and the bass seems to be coming from the front, The sound till this stage can either be stereo or mono.
This is a very good way of attaining good front staging.
Then the MB-MR or the other speakers pick it up from there and give a sense of space to the front stage by producing 2 different channels the left and the right, while the tweeters pin point frequencies which helps in the imaging of different vocals and instruments.
If your system doesnt have the ability to produce almost the full audible audio spectrum then the sound may feel lacking in many aspects.
My 2 cents..
Victor...
alanjlamore on 04/8/2005 08:03:23
The sub will be taking care of everything from 20hz-80hz, cut off with a low pass filter at 80hz.
The only overlapping would be the 2 mid speaders and the 2 component mids in the front.
If I can get that other channel of my 4ch amp fixed I could get a stereo signal for the mids and maybe cross them over from 80hz (hp) to 250hz (lp).
I can also adjust the tweeters' output with the jumper to add or subtract 3db, depending on how overpowering the low and mid range is.
Right now the subs (below 80hz) drowns out any mids even when under powered, that's why I'm looking to get more mid range after I get an amp to power my sub better.
Oh and just to explain why I keep saying "sub" and "sub(s)", it's because right now I have 2 infinity Perfect 10.1 subs that are each getting only 100W rms, but I've been planning to get an amp that puts out around 600-900W rms at 2 ohms to run the subs. Then I was trying to find out if that would be too much on the alt.and batt., so I was then trying to decide on just selling my 2 subs and gettting one 4ohm DVC sub and using a smaller amp (around 300-400W rms at 2ohms) to push it.
Sorry I didn't want to explain all that in the first post 'cause I didn't want to make too big of a post and have it too confusing.
Thanks for your info ,
swez on 04/8/2005 08:40:22
What about EQ to bring up the level of MB in the front stage system?
The CDT 6.5" can handle the power and frequency response range you desire. It's just a matter of giving them enough power at the frequency range you wish to bring out more. This is where EQ can make a big difference.
The other aspect to gain a few more dB of MB, is the mounting technique. Have you tried sound dampening the door panels of that truck to date? A good membrane seal on the doors will help seal the doors and make them a better enclosure for your 6.5's. That allows them to take more power at MB frequencies and put out more punch as well. In a small cabin space like most mid-sized PU's, optimizing what you have now, might be all that is needed.
Adding more speakers is an option for the rear part of your truck. However, with the sub(s) back there already, may not be able to punch through the bass well enough to do you much good.
Again, I suggest optimizing the front stage for MB/MR/Highs and let the rear channel be mainly for bass.
Comments?
Swez
alanjlamore on 04/8/2005 09:31:02
Thanks Swez, good points. I have been wanting to get kick panels, but like everything else I'm going to be getting, I'm waiting on being able to save more money...which could be a good thing since it gives me lots of time to plan out what I realy want.
I realized how much I liked/missed the midbass when I took out my subs to fit them in the box I build and the overall sound was better (I think when underpowering the subs so much I was probably sending them a muddy, clipped signal).
Should I add sound dampening material inside kick panels, or just around the panels, including in the doors?
I also planned on sound dampening, but like everything else, I'm waiting on more $. Once I start getting more $ (I'll soon have a $200/month bill payed off, then I have to strategically convince the wife...) I will probably go back and search all of my posts here and figgure out what I'm going to do first.
Thanks again,
This site is sooooooooo helpful!
Oh, and BTW, I did improve the mid bass slightly by setting my HU's bass center freqency to 120hz as opposed to the 60hz it's been set at (Alpine CDA something HU).
swez on 04/9/2005 01:49:08
Am thinking you have a pretty good start on CDT Comps already. The doors are a very good option for MB/MR cone drivers. The tweets sound very sweet in the A pillars, slightly angled toward the windshield. This raises the sound stage for highs to the dash for better imaging effects. Which series CDT's do you have here?
Amp power is a key factor for powerful MB performance. If the speakers are rated at 90 Wrms, 75-110 Wrms is plenty of power. The other part is sound damping the doors. (seal them up well) E-dead, Brown Bread, B-Quiet etc., are all good products. Much cheaper than Dynamat. Get both of these right and a little EQ boost at 80-200 Hz., ya got some nice MB in the front stage.
In this size truck, a single sub should be plenty of bass. Sure, you can go dual 10's or a single 12". Just have enough sub and amp power to get the clean bass to match what's going on up front. Figure 300 Wrms is plenty for SQL bass performance. I prefer sealed for SQ, Ported for more SPL thump. Gotta love the Alpine Type R sub here. Does SQ/SPL very well, depending on the enclosure used.
Uhmmm, don't have to break the bank on this install either. You seem to have the front stage speakers, HU and amp to handle this part of the job. Just a matter of a sub configuration you can manage, sub amp and door dampening materials. Skip the kick pods as they will be lacking in good low MB performance, tight fit and $150.00 a pair is a bit much. Go for the door mounts here, if you already have done same.
That just leaves you with a sub or two, make a box for less than a meal out at an mid-expensive restaurant and some sweat equity. Amp wise, can find several good options under $250. That just leaves some #4 gage wire, RCA's and a fuse kit. What... $35.00, give or take a few pennies.
That's the basics I can see here. Some good shopping, a well designed box and some extra sweat, you're home free under $600 beans. We'll walk you through the planning stages and even where to get some good deals too. Your job is to schmooze the budget, save your pennies and keep your bride happy.
Swez
1) What would be a good midbass crossover cutoff point (I'm thinking 80hz-200hz)?
2) Would mid bass speakers (cut off from around 80hz-200ish hz) still need to have a stereo signal?
The reason I ask this is because I have a 4ch amp that has one bad channel. 2 of the channels are going to my CDT 6.5" components, and I'm getting a class D amp for my sub(s), so I was thinking about using the one unused channel of the amp for 2 mids at 2ohms (which it's stable for).
3) if I'm looking to add some good midbass, which I get from the components, but not enough, so should I overlap any frequencies with the components?
I was thinking of cutting off the CDTs at 80hz (hp); the sub at 80hz (lp); and the extra mids at 80hz (hp), 200hz (lp). This would mean that the front components and the extra mids would both be playing the 80-200hz range.
Thanks is advance, any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Replies (5)
Victor on 04/8/2005 02:08:09
well..
With all your speakers , sub and the MB driver at 80Hz , damn that is some really overlapping reinforced MB sound. If you like too much of MB its ok, but i dont see some real low bass in your setup.
crossing the MB driver at 50 to 250 hz is what I would do , but in that case my subs would be able to go as low as atleast 35Hz.And rest of the speakers would do 80HZ and up.
The reason for doing this is, 35Hz to say a 80HZ sound is very omnidirectional, It is very difficult to localise the sound source. Sound above 80Hz can be recognised by trained ears and sound above a 100Hz can be recognised by common listener.
So as soon as the audio spectrum in the music reaches a level where the point source can be recognised the MB driver picks up the frequencies and the bass seems to be coming from the front, The sound till this stage can either be stereo or mono.
This is a very good way of attaining good front staging.
Then the MB-MR or the other speakers pick it up from there and give a sense of space to the front stage by producing 2 different channels the left and the right, while the tweeters pin point frequencies which helps in the imaging of different vocals and instruments.
If your system doesnt have the ability to produce almost the full audible audio spectrum then the sound may feel lacking in many aspects.
My 2 cents..
Victor...
alanjlamore on 04/8/2005 08:03:23
The sub will be taking care of everything from 20hz-80hz, cut off with a low pass filter at 80hz.
The only overlapping would be the 2 mid speaders and the 2 component mids in the front.
If I can get that other channel of my 4ch amp fixed I could get a stereo signal for the mids and maybe cross them over from 80hz (hp) to 250hz (lp).
I can also adjust the tweeters' output with the jumper to add or subtract 3db, depending on how overpowering the low and mid range is.
Right now the subs (below 80hz) drowns out any mids even when under powered, that's why I'm looking to get more mid range after I get an amp to power my sub better.
Oh and just to explain why I keep saying "sub" and "sub(s)", it's because right now I have 2 infinity Perfect 10.1 subs that are each getting only 100W rms, but I've been planning to get an amp that puts out around 600-900W rms at 2 ohms to run the subs. Then I was trying to find out if that would be too much on the alt.and batt., so I was then trying to decide on just selling my 2 subs and gettting one 4ohm DVC sub and using a smaller amp (around 300-400W rms at 2ohms) to push it.
Sorry I didn't want to explain all that in the first post 'cause I didn't want to make too big of a post and have it too confusing.
Thanks for your info ,
swez on 04/8/2005 08:40:22
What about EQ to bring up the level of MB in the front stage system?
The CDT 6.5" can handle the power and frequency response range you desire. It's just a matter of giving them enough power at the frequency range you wish to bring out more. This is where EQ can make a big difference.
The other aspect to gain a few more dB of MB, is the mounting technique. Have you tried sound dampening the door panels of that truck to date? A good membrane seal on the doors will help seal the doors and make them a better enclosure for your 6.5's. That allows them to take more power at MB frequencies and put out more punch as well. In a small cabin space like most mid-sized PU's, optimizing what you have now, might be all that is needed.
Adding more speakers is an option for the rear part of your truck. However, with the sub(s) back there already, may not be able to punch through the bass well enough to do you much good.
Again, I suggest optimizing the front stage for MB/MR/Highs and let the rear channel be mainly for bass.
Comments?
Swez
alanjlamore on 04/8/2005 09:31:02
Thanks Swez, good points. I have been wanting to get kick panels, but like everything else I'm going to be getting, I'm waiting on being able to save more money...which could be a good thing since it gives me lots of time to plan out what I realy want.
I realized how much I liked/missed the midbass when I took out my subs to fit them in the box I build and the overall sound was better (I think when underpowering the subs so much I was probably sending them a muddy, clipped signal).
Should I add sound dampening material inside kick panels, or just around the panels, including in the doors?
I also planned on sound dampening, but like everything else, I'm waiting on more $. Once I start getting more $ (I'll soon have a $200/month bill payed off, then I have to strategically convince the wife...) I will probably go back and search all of my posts here and figgure out what I'm going to do first.
Thanks again,
This site is sooooooooo helpful!
Oh, and BTW, I did improve the mid bass slightly by setting my HU's bass center freqency to 120hz as opposed to the 60hz it's been set at (Alpine CDA something HU).
swez on 04/9/2005 01:49:08
Am thinking you have a pretty good start on CDT Comps already. The doors are a very good option for MB/MR cone drivers. The tweets sound very sweet in the A pillars, slightly angled toward the windshield. This raises the sound stage for highs to the dash for better imaging effects. Which series CDT's do you have here?
Amp power is a key factor for powerful MB performance. If the speakers are rated at 90 Wrms, 75-110 Wrms is plenty of power. The other part is sound damping the doors. (seal them up well) E-dead, Brown Bread, B-Quiet etc., are all good products. Much cheaper than Dynamat. Get both of these right and a little EQ boost at 80-200 Hz., ya got some nice MB in the front stage.
In this size truck, a single sub should be plenty of bass. Sure, you can go dual 10's or a single 12". Just have enough sub and amp power to get the clean bass to match what's going on up front. Figure 300 Wrms is plenty for SQL bass performance. I prefer sealed for SQ, Ported for more SPL thump. Gotta love the Alpine Type R sub here. Does SQ/SPL very well, depending on the enclosure used.
Uhmmm, don't have to break the bank on this install either. You seem to have the front stage speakers, HU and amp to handle this part of the job. Just a matter of a sub configuration you can manage, sub amp and door dampening materials. Skip the kick pods as they will be lacking in good low MB performance, tight fit and $150.00 a pair is a bit much. Go for the door mounts here, if you already have done same.
That just leaves you with a sub or two, make a box for less than a meal out at an mid-expensive restaurant and some sweat equity. Amp wise, can find several good options under $250. That just leaves some #4 gage wire, RCA's and a fuse kit. What... $35.00, give or take a few pennies.
That's the basics I can see here. Some good shopping, a well designed box and some extra sweat, you're home free under $600 beans. We'll walk you through the planning stages and even where to get some good deals too. Your job is to schmooze the budget, save your pennies and keep your bride happy.
Swez
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