Hey all, I'm new to the fourm and I was just looking for suggestions on what I can do and what I should do with my $300.
With this low of a budget, I would like to know what I can get? I already have a cd player in my car, so i dont need a deck, and the speakers can get loud enough, but what I dont have is BASS (like everyone else) And I would like to ask for suggestions on what i should get set up.
I'm a real newbie when it comes to car electronics and stereos, I have never installed a system before (the 300 bucks i already spend on this was 100 for deck, 100 for speakers, and 100 for labor) But I would like to be able to avoid spending alot of money for labor in the future, and just buy an amp and subs off the internet and install them myself.
Well, I think i've babbled on for long enough, so I'll sum it up.
I've got 300 bucks to spend, and already have a decent system, but I need BASS, what should I do?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Replies (51)
compvr15s on 03/11/2005 11:00:30
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32822&item=5759537321&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
have you ever looked into something like this. its a 10inch powered sub with 2 10 inch passive radiators? im very sure this will get pretty loud. is ur supra hatchback? im not familiar with that year/model... but with a built in 250 watt class d amp your gonna get plenty of power and only a 30 amp draw on ur electrical system.
there are other options like maybe going with a jbl bp 300.1 class d amp. and a solid set of 10-12 inch subs.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18803&item=5757803376&rd=1
here is a pair of kicker comp vrs for 139, thats a great price, these subs will produde lots of bass. they are not the greatest sq but i run 2 15s of these models and i have no problem with the quality nice tight low bass...
open to many options but i like the idea of the first like i mentioned, looks like a great product, wish i could give you more than my opinion on it but idont know of anybody that has it, but infinity is know for good woofers, so i dont think this would be a problem.
if you dont like these ideas let me know and i can do more of a search, but when tryin to find a good solid amp a decent set of subs 300 bucks its kinda tight, since you have to buy install kit probably, rcas, power cable, remote wire, ground cable, terminals? can get an amp kit for under 40 bucks off ebay, 8gauge would be ok for 250-300 watts, but if you go any bigger id suggest 4 gauge, and if you plan to upgrade the 4 gauage is a must, to ensure the current is making it from a to b, and 8 awg wont supply the proper amount for a larger system. good luck, lets me know what cha think tho, we will get something worked out. peace
Needasystem on 03/11/2005 11:14:16
My car is a hatchback, so i have alot of room to expand behind the rear seat, and with it all closed up I think just about anything could sound real nice in a small car like that.
One question though, what exactly is a passive radiator?
Sorry for the short reply, but I'm late for class!
Needasystem on 03/11/2005 15:46:46
I'm thinking about the second option you suggested, and those look like a great pair of speakers, however, i was wondering how you guys felt about a refurbished amp from jbl, like this one
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLBP3001Z
great price (that and the 2 subs would be within my price range) but i was concerned about if they would still be the same quality, and was wondering if any of you have had any experience with them. Thanks for any input you can give me, and if anyone could tell me something about passive radiators that would be great also, because i had never heard about them before today.
montego_27 on 03/11/2005 19:22:09
This gives a pretty decent explanation of what a passive radiator is.
http://www.audiovideo101.com/dictionary/dictionary.asp?dictionaryid=335
I've bought refurbs in the past and couldn't tell them from new. Just make sure you get a warranty, which this one has. Real nice amp.Just a littlle piggy with power draw. Although I'm a little spoiled w/ my Alpine Accu-class D
compvr15s on 03/11/2005 19:38:46
actaully refurbs are not a bad thing at all, this just means they have been sent if for some factory defect and then fixed and tested, so your almost gurenteed that it will not be DOA. as for the PR. its like having a ported box just with a sub in it, it replaces the need for porting, will net 3-5 more db than a regular sealed box, the pasive subs are not wired tho, just the sub in the middle, and the other two subs run off the inside pressure. i have a passive radiator sub in my house system and, its amazingly loud for a 12.
here are some other amps that are at a good price. 300-600 watts,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18797&item=5760088015&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=79825&item=5757814214&rd=1
this looks to be a solid amp from alpine, 350 watts 130 bucks on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=79825&item=5757814214&rd=1
400 watts for 150 also good manufacture
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18797&item=5760074457&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18797&item=5760074457&rd=1
Subs-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48614&item=5758925394&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48614&item=5758748625&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18803&item=5758605305&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39779&item=5757993687&rd=1
remember when looking you have to match the impedence of ur subs to your amp. so if you amp is optimal at 2 ohms make sure you get 2 dual2 ohm subs, or 2 single 4 omh subs, more than likely it will 2 dual 2 ohm, not many subs are single voice coils anymore. can gladly help out more if you need it, good luck
Needasystem on 03/12/2005 03:24:02
Thanks so much for all the suggestions and advice. I was wondering which you think would sound better, spending 300 bucks on an amp and 2 12" subs, and building my own enclosure (ported most likely) or simply buying that infinity powered enclosure with the 10" sub and passive radiators?
Also, once I finally get all this set up, am i going to need to get high-pass crossovers for my 4 smaller speakers in my car that cant handle the bass, so when i crank up the stereo they wont distort?
compvr15s on 03/12/2005 03:55:30
i really cant say on that, but if you dont have good wood working skills, it may take a lil while to get the proper enclosure, im sure the infinity 10 will give plenty of bass but if its not what u wanted there is no refunds on ebay. but going with a set of 12s, just by simply switching box types you can achieve a diffent sound... a nice dual vented box with the ports facing the hatch, and a decent pair of 12s u will get incredible loud bass, and still stay under the 300 dollar mark. as for the speakers. does ur head unit have a built in cross over, i know alpine, kenwood, and pioneers do and sure most others do to, with this you should not have much of a problem. but can always get a set of bass blockers if you do get distortion after adding sub and amp. probably 100hz for the rear and 150 for the front, can always go lower and get a lil more midbass out of the speaks. good luck
Needasystem on 03/12/2005 13:24:22
I have acceptable woodworking skills, and I have access to poeple with excellent woodworking skills, but unfortunately, I dont know exactly how a ported enclosure works(well, I know somewhat how it works, lets air out through a port for more efficent bass, but the bass is not quite the same quality as a sealed enclosure), but i dont know how to make the ports, and if there needs to be anything special done to it. I wasnt able to find a complete DIY guide on this site, just formula's for box sizes and the like.
I am not sure at the moment if my head unit has a built in crossover, its a Sony, so when I get the chance I can look it up and find out, and I'll get back to you.
compvr15s on 03/12/2005 14:04:53
if u give the model number i can look it up for you, as for the box building, do not build a ported box without choosing subs first. certain subs have specs that need to be followed to get the best bass performace. most subs come with a manual that will give appropiate port frequency. will give you dimensions of every board you need to cut as well, very easy to follow, especially if you have moderated wook working skills.
Needasystem on 03/12/2005 14:55:55
the model number on the faceplate says CDX-S2000 from Sony, I wasnt able to find anything about crossovers when I was looking
swez on 03/12/2005 18:37:53
That's a pretty slim budget for starters. (am sure you know that already)
But having stated the obvious, It would be good to take a short and long term approach to your entire audio system.
1. Seems like you already have a HU you like. What's the make and model # of same? Will review specs and try to come up with some workable amping options.
2. Since you have a smaller vehicle, consider a single sub for the job. A solid 12" sub in a well designed enclosure will net adequate BASS SPL to over run your current mid/highs off a HU amp set. Can always add a 2nd sub later, if you want more bass.
3. As for amps, nothing wrong with looking at refurbs. I have one and it has performed flawlessly for 5 years. Cost way less than new and just has a few minor scratches on the heat sink. Does not matter as the amp is hidden anyway. (JBL DA-1002, +300 Wrms @ 4 ohms)
FYI: Since you have a smaller car, many have flip down rear seats for stowage and such. Does your Supra Have that option. (open cabin to trunk?
If you have that option, a single 12" ported with ~300 Wrms is plenty of bass SPL. (low 130's dB guestimate) That's a lot of in-the-cabin bass potential. (trust me)
E-bay will net the best prices on most branded names. Sub names to consider... Alpine (SWS series), Infinity Kappa, Kicker Comp VR or perhaps JBL. All of these can be had for about $100.00 off e-bay or less. A 4+4 DVC is recommended, so you can get a 2 ohm load to the amp for max efficiency.
Amps: A Class D Mono amp is a very good option here. Alpine, JBL, Infinity, Kicker and several others are all available in 300 Wrms range and priced under $200.00. One thing to note, if you go ported on the sub enclosure, will need a SubSonic Filter (SSF) to block lows below port tuned frequency. (PTF) If you run a ported sub below PTF, it will fry in a matter of time. If the amp you choose does not have a SSF, can buy F-Mod SSF's for the input side of the amp. (~$25.00/pr.)
Finally, may I recommend that you buy quality brand name products. Yes, they cost a tad more... but in the long run, they are most worth it. Why buy cheap now... go 6 months and say... "Gee, this system really is lame" and then have to go out for more gear at greater expense. (now we have bought twice) Not a good strategy. A better strategy is to build a quality system, one stage at a time as money becomes available. (again, trust me... have seen this scenario many times on this and other boards)
Finally, are you looking to high SPL (Boom boom boom bass), SQ type tight, accurate bass or SQL, a combination of good SPL and above average SQ. Give us some feedback and we can list a few items in your budget range to launch you into the world of bass.
What say you?
Swez
PS Don't forget the amp wiring kit as part of the budget. You'll need power feed wire & ground, RCA's from HU to amp, a fuse and some speaker wire. A decent low cost amp kit can be had for under $30.00 in most cases.
Needasystem on 03/12/2005 19:05:03
Thanks for all the advice swez, and my supra does have a fold-down rear seat. The option that looks like it fits my budget best is to get a refurb JBL BP300.1 amp (120 + s&h) and a real nice 12" sub (probably spend about 120 + s&h for that one too, so I can get a pretty nice one, Infinity has always done me good in the past, as has JBL) and also get the amp wiring kit.
I think what I would prefer for my car would be about 25%SQ/75%SPL. I dont want the bass to sound like crap, but having it be loud and thumping is more important to me.
swez on 03/12/2005 22:11:00
Good, that helps dial in the target zone. You can always start out with one amp & sub and add a matched pair later if more bass is required and you have more cash to play with.
Also, I would suggest going with a sealed box. You will have plenty of clean SPL due to cabin gain effects of a hatchback. (10-15 dB more gain)
As for a quality sub, consider the Alpine SWR 4+4 DVC. Small enclosure is more than adequate and sub can be had for under $125.00 off e-bay.
Infinity Kappa or Kappa Perfect will also work. Again, a 4+4 DVC is needed. Have a look around and see what you can find price wise.
Comments?
Swez
Needasystem on 03/12/2005 22:55:32
A sealed box would definentally be much eaiser for me to construct.
What do you think of this sub? Alpine SWR for 100.
Will a JBL BP300.1 be able to use this to its full potential, jbl amp is rated RMS Power: 150W x 1 @ 4 ohms and the sub has 300W RMS, should i spring for an amp with 300W rms?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18803&item=5759649283&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Needasystem on 03/12/2005 23:00:28
one more question, I was always under the impression that it takes more power to work a speaker the lower the ohms get, but the amps say it can power 4ohms at 150W, and 2ohms at 300W, so i guess my impressions were wrong, anyone care to set me straight? (i'm still very new to all this stuff, i basically got into it a week ago)
compvr15s on 03/12/2005 23:03:42
no it dont take more for lower impedence it just gives more power. but you can not change the impedence of a speaker with out adding other speakers or resistors. just has less resistance with lower ohms allowing more power.
swez on 03/13/2005 10:47:17
In amplifier terms, if we change the resistive load the amp is applying power too, the actual work the amp can do will increase or decrease proportionally to the load. (within design limits of the amp)
Example: A 3000 lbs car has a HP rating of say 300 HP @ 5,500 RPM. It can do 0-60 MPH in say 7.0 seconds. Now, we shed some weight from the car. (say we chop off 1000 lbs) What do you think will happen to the 0-60 time clock? Right! Time will be shorter as now, that 300 HP is pushing a lesser load.
Same basic idea with amplifers. If we change the resistive load load to the amplifier, we get more watts to the load. (speaker = load) OK, hope that makes more sense now.
As for amp choices, if you can find a JBL BP300.1 refurb or used for under $125.00, that a deal worth diving on. As for subs, can go with Infinity, JBL, Alpine or any other brand you like that can handle 300 Wrms and give you a 2 ohm load. (a 4+4 DVC will do) Once you have a sub in mind, we can then tackle the box dimensions matter.
Hope that helps,
Swez SMILE
Needasystem on 03/13/2005 13:29:15
I know I cant say this enough, but I am going to keep doing it anyway, THANKS SO MUCH for all the help you guys are giving me.
I can get a refurb JBL BP300.1 amp for 120+s&h from cardomain.com
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLBP3001Z
I was wondering what you thought of this sub, its an infinity kappa perfect, 12" 350W RMS, for 130 after shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48614&item=5760375338&rd=1
Oh, and one of the reasons i was confused is because of this website
http://www.audiovideo101.com/dictionary/dictionary.asp?dictionaryid=323
said "As speaker impedance decreases, more current flows and the amplifier is called upon to output more power to the speaker. " which makes it sound like its more difficult to power speakers at lower ohms.
Victor on 03/14/2005 00:13:17
Well that statement is very TRUE.. i guess you are mis-understaznding it.
here is a short explanation, according to the ohms law, lower the impedance more current will pass thru . that means that if a load of 2ohms and 4ohms are attached respectively to the same amplifier then more current will pass through the lower load.
for example If an amplifier is rated at 4ohms and gives out 500wrms then at the load of 2 ohms it would "ideally" give out a 1000wrms, hence if your amplifier is rated to take lower impedences of 2ohms or 1 ohms then to get the maximum power out of the amplifier you can run it at lower impedences.
Hope that helps..
Victor...
P.S :- why did u not read the first sentence...??
""""The greater the ohm value the more difficult it is for current to flow through a given circuit. Conversely, a low ohm value represents a low resistance and the easy flow of current through a circuit.""""
swez on 03/14/2005 08:28:01
That Infinity sub noted will work fine. Also, consider this series as well from Alpine.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18803&item=5756541654&rd=1
Great amp price: http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/2145
Alpine: Alpine MRD-M301 $135.00
350 Wrms @ 14.4 volts, nice menu driven Parametric Bass EQ and much more. Have a closer look:
http://www.alpine-usa.com/
Swez
Needasystem on 03/14/2005 10:23:48
Thanks Victor, I think I finally get it now, and I did read that first sentence, but I read it wrong.
Swez,
That alpine sub looks nice, but I was wondering how that sub would be better than the infinity sub already mentioned? Is it any better, or would it just be cheaper?
That amp does look nice, but I was wondering about the 14.4V power requirements, I only have a stock electrical system in my OLD car, so I'm not sure it could provide the power it needs to preform properly. If it doesnt make a difference, that is definentally a nice amp for me to consider.
I'll probably be ordering whichever setup I decide on (probably alpine amp and infinity sub) and I also need a suggestion on what is a good amp install kit to pick up.
I'm not that picky, and as you people have probably noticed, I am very impressionable when it comes to things like this because of my limited knowledge and experience. (You : "Here, look, this is a nice sub" Me : "OMG I must have that!!!" You : "...But this is also nice..." Me : "OOO, now I like that one better!")
What it really comes down to is me wanting your suggestions, and what you would think is best considering your FAR superior knowledge of car audio, and my limited access to speakers for my own testing. I just heard my friends system today, he had 2 12" in a ported enclosure, PBX subs, and it was nice, but I think it was too much SPL and not enough SQ for me.
I would probably have to change my liking to 75%SQ/25%SPL because I know that if i get a good SQ system I can always crank it up plenty loud for my tastes. With that said, I think that infinity sub will probably work pretty well for me in a sealed enclosure, as for the amp, that alpine is nice, but that jbl bp300.1 also looks nice, so I'm split on that decision, but I know that the JBL has a good rep for making good amps.
Ok, thats all for now, I'm going to have to get back to school, so I will thank you again for all your help and eagerly await your responses and suggestions.
swez on 03/14/2005 15:50:56
Personally, I have nothing against Infinity subs or amps. They are very good SQL subs and pretty honest amps.
However, of late... have been researching and recommending Alpine amps and subs to many who demand high quaility and are looking for same with a tight budget. The feedback I have been getting from those who took that suggestion, are all very positive. Not one complaint in the lot.
You mentioned your older car may not be able to develop the 14.4 volts. This can easlily be verified withthe digital voltage gage within the Alpine MRD-M301 menu setup steps. It will give you actual voltage readings the amp is getting. Even if you see a nominal 13.5 volt reading, still have over 300 Wrms to the sub at 2 ohms.
As for wiring kits, Street Wires has good kits available off e-bay for under $25.00. If this is the only amp you plan to use, a #8 wiring kit is adequate. However, if you think you may add a 2nd amp later, go for the #4 gage amp kit.
Swez
Needasystem on 03/14/2005 18:05:55
I'll probably pick up another amp and sub later on so I will go with a #4 gague amp kit. I've decided to get that infinity sub, and will order it once I get home (not going to do anything like that at school)
here's the sub, with specs
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48614&item=5760375338&rd=1
I was wondering what the dimensions will need to be for the sealed enclosure I plan to build, so that I can get started and have something to do while I waitfor the equipment to arrive.
Needasystem on 03/14/2005 18:48:40
If I am not getting that full 14.4Volts, what can I do to fix that later on? New alternator? If so, will I have to look for a special alternator, or are most alternators nowadays able to give out 14.4V? (i think the alternator in my car was replaced about 5 years ago, so its not THAT old, like the rest of my car)
And for the sealed enclosure/sub, what is generally the best setup for a hatchback? I could point the sub back, away from me, and have it bounce off the back window, or point it straight up, or I could make an angled enclosure and angle it towards the front of the car? Suggestions are welcome.
montego_27 on 03/14/2005 19:22:58
That vehicle came w/ either a 55 or 60 amp alternator(OEM) depending on the accessories that came w/ the car.I think your going to have to upgrade that a bit depending on amperage draw from new equipment(amps).It may be difficult to find a higher amperage alternator due to age and model of your car, but you can also have your current alternator re-wound to give you higher output.
Good Luck, Tego
Needasystem on 03/14/2005 21:59:27
I've never heard of having an alternator re-wound before, how does that work?
montego_27 on 03/14/2005 23:15:33
Punching in key words into your search engine like: "alternator" and "rewind" can yield some good results sometimes....
http://www.mtmscientific.com/rewind.html
Needasystem on 03/14/2005 23:47:56
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32808&item=5759140417&rd=1
Would that be a fine amp kit to get? all the streetwires 4gauge amp kits were outside my price range.
compvr15s on 03/15/2005 00:07:12
that amp kit will work fine for what you need.
Needasystem on 03/15/2005 02:34:03
Alright, cool. I just finished ordering all my stuff, got the alpine amp from ikesound, got that amp kit, and the infinity sub.
How do I find out what I need the dimensions on the sealed enclosure I plan to build need to be? Should I try to figure that out now, or just wait and look at the documents that come with the sub?
Victor on 03/15/2005 02:55:19
Wait for the Docs,,, the manufacturers provide with dimensions and details for optimum performace..
Victor...
Needasystem on 03/15/2005 03:02:04
http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Boxes%20and%20Parameters/P12.1d_f.pdf
thats the specifications for the box that i need to build, says 1.00ft^3 for the volume of the box. It says "includes displacement" but i'm not sure how its including it, by including it does it mean i really need to make a box of probably .85ft^3, or do i need to make one that is 1.15ft^3, or do i just need to make a variation of a 12x12x12 box? (like 13x13x10.22 for 1ft^3 with enough room on the sides to fit the speaker into it (instead of 12x12x12)
swez on 03/15/2005 05:33:39
OK, you are well on your way here so far. The enclosure you will want to build needs to be close to 1^ft internally for a sealed box on that sub. The external dimensions for a 12" sub will have to be larger than 12" H & W to accomodate the sub cutout. I would recommend a minimum of 15" H and W here. If using 3/4" MDF (recommended) your external depth will be 11". This nets a 1.008 ft^3 internal volume.
The panel cuts for this size are:
Top & Bottom: 15" x 11" x 3/4" (2 panels)
Sides: 13.5" x 11" x 3/4" (2 panels)
Front & Back: 13.5" x 13.5" x 3/4" (2 panels)
The speaker cutout will need to be 10-7/8" dia.
Use 1" thickness of fiberfill, polyfill or fiberglass batting material on back, sides, top & bottom. (inside the box) All that remains to purchase, is a wire termination cup. Can get this at Best Buy, Circuit City or Radio Shack. This style is recommended:
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011
%5F003%5F001%5F012&product%5Fid=274%2D630
Also, will need about 1/4 sheet of 3/4" MDF for this size box. (~1000 in^2) May have to purchase a 48" x 48" x 3/4" size panel of MDF. If you buy from Home Depot, they can rough cut your panels to specified dimensions for about 50 cents per cut. That way, your panels are uniform and square. All you need then, are drywall screws or 1.5" brad nails and carpenter's glue for assembly. If you wish to carpet the box, they have that too. Just buy a can of 3M Super 77 spray adhesive and have at it.
FYI: When using screws, always pre-drill holes with a 1/8" pilot hole to prevent wood splitting. (#6 1-5/8" is fine) See this link for assembly tips.
http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm
Swez
alanjlamore on 03/15/2005 08:15:25
Let us know your experience with ikesound. I was thinking about buying the alpine M605 amp from there since it's a regular company and only about $5.00 more than ebay's cheapest listing (with shipping included).
I was hesitant to buy from there though because I did a quick search on google and saw some bad remarks about that website, but hopefully that was just a couple bad experiences a long time ago.
Looks like you'll have a great system, and you've definitly come to the right place for the best support and to get the best deals.
Needasystem on 03/15/2005 15:29:37
I was slightly reluctant to purchase anything from ikesound.com because I also saw some negative reviews, but I also found a number of very positive reviews, and it appears to be recommended often on a number of other car audio fourms, so I figured I would go ahead and order from them.
Needasystem on 03/15/2005 15:47:39
I was wondering if there is anything wrong with using a lesser wood substance, like partacle board or plywood as a temperary enclosure, since I wont be able to get ahold of MDF for a week or two.
Also, I was wondering what the wire termination cup is for, since that link swez listed doesnt seem to go to a product.
Oh, and one more thing, how do you suggest getting the wires from the sub to the outside of the box? Drill a hole and stick the wires through, then fill the hole with glue? Or is there a special and nifty way to do it?
gearhead on 03/15/2005 16:08:16
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F003%5F001%5F012&product%5Fid=274%2D630
Try that. It should answer your questions about the termination cups. As dar as using particle board or plywood as a temp, why waste the time and $$$?
swez on 03/15/2005 16:45:44
Don't even go there on partical board or plywood. Plywood has too many voids and box will be leaky. Partical board is a porous and takes on moisture and will eventually fall apart if you dont seal the wood well.
As for terminating your sub to the amp, there are several options to do this. I like the 5-way binding post for ease of use. Using a banana jack is basically plug and play. Very simple to use.
Swez
Needasystem on 03/15/2005 17:26:06
Thanks for the link gearhead, turns out I knew what you were talking about once I saw a picture, I just didnt know the name.
And the reason I would make a temp enclosure out of one of those substances is because I've got a pile of it in my garage right now, and I only would be keeping it for a week or 2 at the longest, but if its worthless then I'll go try and find some fiberboard at a lumberyard that isnt too far away.
One more thing about the terminal, is it absolutely necessary to do that, or is it just to make it eaiser in the future for transporting the enclosure?
(edit: those terminals look pretty cheap, and there is a radio shack less than a mile from my home, so I'll pick one of those up.)
compvr15s on 03/15/2005 18:32:18
using the terminal is not necessary but it does work alo better than drilling hole for wire to go through then caulk it in... the terminals are air tight and make the box look alot cleaner. dont have to worry bout pullin wires lose or anything,if you go the other way and for some reason your box moves, more than likely you will pull wires loose and then wont have an airtight seal... paying the 5dollars or so it totally worth it.... when at lumber yard, see if they carry pre cut boards, since you will not need a full sheet, my be able to my 5 med size pieces like 20x20 or so for sides and then 2 smaller pieces like 15x15 for front back, i know the menards by me carrys wood like that, and they will even cut to size and discard left overs for free.....may be another option, wont even need to cut boards just for terminal and for sub cut outt, then alls you need is box of screws and good sealing caulk to precent any leaks. good luck...
Needasystem on 03/15/2005 23:13:53
I'm going to have to put together a makeshift enclosure from 3/4" waferboard (I think thats what it's called) just so I can use my sub over spring break, and once I can afford it I will make the box out of fiberboard and really use that sub to its full potential.
I've got a friend who just installed a system in his car that is going to help me hook everything up when it gets here, that being said, with an amateur(me) and a guy who at least knows somewhat how to do it(my friend), how long do you think it will take to set this system up?
compvr15s on 03/15/2005 23:39:13
depends on how nice you want it, most of the time is disasembling the car and re asembeling the car, but should be able to do it in a day or maybe a weekend, just depends on how complex and hard it is to get ur car apart
Needasystem on 03/16/2005 01:06:54
I dont think it should take me that long though, only problem I see so far, without disassembling anything, is I cant find a good way to get from the battery to the inside of the cab. It looks like I'll be able to install my apm under the drivers seat and have it pretty well hidden without having to remove the seat to do it.
gearhead on 03/16/2005 01:33:03
Those termination cups are decent (decent being a relative term). I just used 2 of them for some boxes I built. They come with a screwhole in each corner. I added an additional hole between each set of the original holes, so I have 8 screws holding each one. They don't leak and seem to be pretty sturdy.
swez on 03/16/2005 08:47:25
Not sure what you mean by "waferboard" here. Is that the large particals of wood chips and glue used in home construction? If yes, that is called OSB. (Oriented Strand Board) Tough to work with due to large, irregular wood chips embedded in the pressed wood. If you are only making a short term box and have adequate stock of Particle board, that is better then OSB, but not as dense as MDF.
Time for install and box making? Figure 3-4 hours to fab a box. While the glue is curing, do your electricals. That could be a snap or a real pain, depending on how easy you can get your power cable and RCA's installed. Make sure you run the power line on one side of the car and signal lines (RCA's) on the other. This may take a few hours as well. Best guess... 2 guys, some experience, maybe 5-6 hours on a weekend should do it. The tricky part, will be finding/making a hole in the fire wall, installing rubber grommets and feeding the power wire into the cabin. The rest is pretty easy from there.
Swez
Needasystem on 03/16/2005 15:52:17
Yea, the board has those large chips of wood and stuff in it, so yea, I guess its called OSB (I heard it called waferboard before) I might be able to convince someone to take half a sheet of MDF from me, so its possible I might be able to actually make the box out of MDF. One question though, you said I need to put about an inch of fiberfill on the inside of it, is that basically just fiberglass insulation?
So far the only problem I think I will have is finding a hole in the fire wall to get the cables through.
Too bad they are shipping my amp from florida, east coast to west coast, full week for shipping, it's not going to get here until the 23rd.
compvr15s on 03/16/2005 16:47:45
you can use polyfill inside the box, this helps eliminate back noise from the speaker inside the box, also makes the sub feel like its in a lil larger enclosure...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=260-317
here is example... can also use cotton pillow stuffing, it dont take alot, dont jam pack the enclosure, just loosly fill the box.... it also comes in rolls, then alls yo do is lay it in on all the edges, can use a lil glue or whatever to hold it along the wall.
how much osb do you have, if you have enough, may want to glue two layers together, will double the thickness and prevent bowing and flexing, just cake on the wood glue between the two sheets and clamp together, give plenty of time to dry, good luck
Needasystem on 03/16/2005 17:28:15
I have plenty of OSB, 2 sheets that are bout 5' x 9'
It looks like it's only about 1/2" thick though, so it will be real helpful for me to glue a few pieces together.
swez on 03/16/2005 19:43:40
If you choose to use OSB, definitely plan on using 2 layers, glued together for all panels. Use plenty of wood glue to join layers. This stuff flexes a lot at <5/8" thickness. May find it easier to cut sheets into smaller sections, glue and put some weights on it to get proper joinery.
As for the polyfill, can get that at WalMart too. They carry it in bulk bags or in rolls. You can go either way. The best way to secure it into the box, is by using a staple gun. For best results, use 8-10mm staples.
Swez
01gtpony on 03/16/2005 19:44:10
This link explains the difference between MDF, Particleboard and OSB.
http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=pg&p=Build/OSBMDFPart.html&rn=RightNavFiles/rightNavHowTo
Hopefully it will help.
01gtpony
Needasystem on 03/17/2005 00:16:55
Yea, that link helped alot, thx 01gtpony.
Well guys, all my stuff doesnt arrive for a few days, and right now I think I am out of questions to ask you, so it looks like I'll have to just lurk around the fourms for a few days. When all my stuff arrives chances are I'll run into some kind of problem and you will hear back from me, and when everything is finished I'll make sure to tell you all how it comes out.
Thanks for all the help everyone.
With this low of a budget, I would like to know what I can get? I already have a cd player in my car, so i dont need a deck, and the speakers can get loud enough, but what I dont have is BASS (like everyone else) And I would like to ask for suggestions on what i should get set up.
I'm a real newbie when it comes to car electronics and stereos, I have never installed a system before (the 300 bucks i already spend on this was 100 for deck, 100 for speakers, and 100 for labor) But I would like to be able to avoid spending alot of money for labor in the future, and just buy an amp and subs off the internet and install them myself.
Well, I think i've babbled on for long enough, so I'll sum it up.
I've got 300 bucks to spend, and already have a decent system, but I need BASS, what should I do?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Replies (51)
compvr15s on 03/11/2005 11:00:30
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32822&item=5759537321&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
have you ever looked into something like this. its a 10inch powered sub with 2 10 inch passive radiators? im very sure this will get pretty loud. is ur supra hatchback? im not familiar with that year/model... but with a built in 250 watt class d amp your gonna get plenty of power and only a 30 amp draw on ur electrical system.
there are other options like maybe going with a jbl bp 300.1 class d amp. and a solid set of 10-12 inch subs.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18803&item=5757803376&rd=1
here is a pair of kicker comp vrs for 139, thats a great price, these subs will produde lots of bass. they are not the greatest sq but i run 2 15s of these models and i have no problem with the quality nice tight low bass...
open to many options but i like the idea of the first like i mentioned, looks like a great product, wish i could give you more than my opinion on it but idont know of anybody that has it, but infinity is know for good woofers, so i dont think this would be a problem.
if you dont like these ideas let me know and i can do more of a search, but when tryin to find a good solid amp a decent set of subs 300 bucks its kinda tight, since you have to buy install kit probably, rcas, power cable, remote wire, ground cable, terminals? can get an amp kit for under 40 bucks off ebay, 8gauge would be ok for 250-300 watts, but if you go any bigger id suggest 4 gauge, and if you plan to upgrade the 4 gauage is a must, to ensure the current is making it from a to b, and 8 awg wont supply the proper amount for a larger system. good luck, lets me know what cha think tho, we will get something worked out. peace
Needasystem on 03/11/2005 11:14:16
My car is a hatchback, so i have alot of room to expand behind the rear seat, and with it all closed up I think just about anything could sound real nice in a small car like that.
One question though, what exactly is a passive radiator?
Sorry for the short reply, but I'm late for class!
Needasystem on 03/11/2005 15:46:46
I'm thinking about the second option you suggested, and those look like a great pair of speakers, however, i was wondering how you guys felt about a refurbished amp from jbl, like this one
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLBP3001Z
great price (that and the 2 subs would be within my price range) but i was concerned about if they would still be the same quality, and was wondering if any of you have had any experience with them. Thanks for any input you can give me, and if anyone could tell me something about passive radiators that would be great also, because i had never heard about them before today.
montego_27 on 03/11/2005 19:22:09
This gives a pretty decent explanation of what a passive radiator is.
http://www.audiovideo101.com/dictionary/dictionary.asp?dictionaryid=335
I've bought refurbs in the past and couldn't tell them from new. Just make sure you get a warranty, which this one has. Real nice amp.Just a littlle piggy with power draw. Although I'm a little spoiled w/ my Alpine Accu-class D
compvr15s on 03/11/2005 19:38:46
actaully refurbs are not a bad thing at all, this just means they have been sent if for some factory defect and then fixed and tested, so your almost gurenteed that it will not be DOA. as for the PR. its like having a ported box just with a sub in it, it replaces the need for porting, will net 3-5 more db than a regular sealed box, the pasive subs are not wired tho, just the sub in the middle, and the other two subs run off the inside pressure. i have a passive radiator sub in my house system and, its amazingly loud for a 12.
here are some other amps that are at a good price. 300-600 watts,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18797&item=5760088015&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=79825&item=5757814214&rd=1
this looks to be a solid amp from alpine, 350 watts 130 bucks on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=79825&item=5757814214&rd=1
400 watts for 150 also good manufacture
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18797&item=5760074457&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18797&item=5760074457&rd=1
Subs-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48614&item=5758925394&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48614&item=5758748625&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18803&item=5758605305&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39779&item=5757993687&rd=1
remember when looking you have to match the impedence of ur subs to your amp. so if you amp is optimal at 2 ohms make sure you get 2 dual2 ohm subs, or 2 single 4 omh subs, more than likely it will 2 dual 2 ohm, not many subs are single voice coils anymore. can gladly help out more if you need it, good luck
Needasystem on 03/12/2005 03:24:02
Thanks so much for all the suggestions and advice. I was wondering which you think would sound better, spending 300 bucks on an amp and 2 12" subs, and building my own enclosure (ported most likely) or simply buying that infinity powered enclosure with the 10" sub and passive radiators?
Also, once I finally get all this set up, am i going to need to get high-pass crossovers for my 4 smaller speakers in my car that cant handle the bass, so when i crank up the stereo they wont distort?
compvr15s on 03/12/2005 03:55:30
i really cant say on that, but if you dont have good wood working skills, it may take a lil while to get the proper enclosure, im sure the infinity 10 will give plenty of bass but if its not what u wanted there is no refunds on ebay. but going with a set of 12s, just by simply switching box types you can achieve a diffent sound... a nice dual vented box with the ports facing the hatch, and a decent pair of 12s u will get incredible loud bass, and still stay under the 300 dollar mark. as for the speakers. does ur head unit have a built in cross over, i know alpine, kenwood, and pioneers do and sure most others do to, with this you should not have much of a problem. but can always get a set of bass blockers if you do get distortion after adding sub and amp. probably 100hz for the rear and 150 for the front, can always go lower and get a lil more midbass out of the speaks. good luck
Needasystem on 03/12/2005 13:24:22
I have acceptable woodworking skills, and I have access to poeple with excellent woodworking skills, but unfortunately, I dont know exactly how a ported enclosure works(well, I know somewhat how it works, lets air out through a port for more efficent bass, but the bass is not quite the same quality as a sealed enclosure), but i dont know how to make the ports, and if there needs to be anything special done to it. I wasnt able to find a complete DIY guide on this site, just formula's for box sizes and the like.
I am not sure at the moment if my head unit has a built in crossover, its a Sony, so when I get the chance I can look it up and find out, and I'll get back to you.
compvr15s on 03/12/2005 14:04:53
if u give the model number i can look it up for you, as for the box building, do not build a ported box without choosing subs first. certain subs have specs that need to be followed to get the best bass performace. most subs come with a manual that will give appropiate port frequency. will give you dimensions of every board you need to cut as well, very easy to follow, especially if you have moderated wook working skills.
Needasystem on 03/12/2005 14:55:55
the model number on the faceplate says CDX-S2000 from Sony, I wasnt able to find anything about crossovers when I was looking
swez on 03/12/2005 18:37:53
That's a pretty slim budget for starters. (am sure you know that already)
But having stated the obvious, It would be good to take a short and long term approach to your entire audio system.
1. Seems like you already have a HU you like. What's the make and model # of same? Will review specs and try to come up with some workable amping options.
2. Since you have a smaller vehicle, consider a single sub for the job. A solid 12" sub in a well designed enclosure will net adequate BASS SPL to over run your current mid/highs off a HU amp set. Can always add a 2nd sub later, if you want more bass.
3. As for amps, nothing wrong with looking at refurbs. I have one and it has performed flawlessly for 5 years. Cost way less than new and just has a few minor scratches on the heat sink. Does not matter as the amp is hidden anyway. (JBL DA-1002, +300 Wrms @ 4 ohms)
FYI: Since you have a smaller car, many have flip down rear seats for stowage and such. Does your Supra Have that option. (open cabin to trunk?
If you have that option, a single 12" ported with ~300 Wrms is plenty of bass SPL. (low 130's dB guestimate) That's a lot of in-the-cabin bass potential. (trust me)
E-bay will net the best prices on most branded names. Sub names to consider... Alpine (SWS series), Infinity Kappa, Kicker Comp VR or perhaps JBL. All of these can be had for about $100.00 off e-bay or less. A 4+4 DVC is recommended, so you can get a 2 ohm load to the amp for max efficiency.
Amps: A Class D Mono amp is a very good option here. Alpine, JBL, Infinity, Kicker and several others are all available in 300 Wrms range and priced under $200.00. One thing to note, if you go ported on the sub enclosure, will need a SubSonic Filter (SSF) to block lows below port tuned frequency. (PTF) If you run a ported sub below PTF, it will fry in a matter of time. If the amp you choose does not have a SSF, can buy F-Mod SSF's for the input side of the amp. (~$25.00/pr.)
Finally, may I recommend that you buy quality brand name products. Yes, they cost a tad more... but in the long run, they are most worth it. Why buy cheap now... go 6 months and say... "Gee, this system really is lame" and then have to go out for more gear at greater expense. (now we have bought twice) Not a good strategy. A better strategy is to build a quality system, one stage at a time as money becomes available. (again, trust me... have seen this scenario many times on this and other boards)
Finally, are you looking to high SPL (Boom boom boom bass), SQ type tight, accurate bass or SQL, a combination of good SPL and above average SQ. Give us some feedback and we can list a few items in your budget range to launch you into the world of bass.
What say you?
Swez
PS Don't forget the amp wiring kit as part of the budget. You'll need power feed wire & ground, RCA's from HU to amp, a fuse and some speaker wire. A decent low cost amp kit can be had for under $30.00 in most cases.
Needasystem on 03/12/2005 19:05:03
Thanks for all the advice swez, and my supra does have a fold-down rear seat. The option that looks like it fits my budget best is to get a refurb JBL BP300.1 amp (120 + s&h) and a real nice 12" sub (probably spend about 120 + s&h for that one too, so I can get a pretty nice one, Infinity has always done me good in the past, as has JBL) and also get the amp wiring kit.
I think what I would prefer for my car would be about 25%SQ/75%SPL. I dont want the bass to sound like crap, but having it be loud and thumping is more important to me.
swez on 03/12/2005 22:11:00
Good, that helps dial in the target zone. You can always start out with one amp & sub and add a matched pair later if more bass is required and you have more cash to play with.
Also, I would suggest going with a sealed box. You will have plenty of clean SPL due to cabin gain effects of a hatchback. (10-15 dB more gain)
As for a quality sub, consider the Alpine SWR 4+4 DVC. Small enclosure is more than adequate and sub can be had for under $125.00 off e-bay.
Infinity Kappa or Kappa Perfect will also work. Again, a 4+4 DVC is needed. Have a look around and see what you can find price wise.
Comments?
Swez
Needasystem on 03/12/2005 22:55:32
A sealed box would definentally be much eaiser for me to construct.
What do you think of this sub? Alpine SWR for 100.
Will a JBL BP300.1 be able to use this to its full potential, jbl amp is rated RMS Power: 150W x 1 @ 4 ohms and the sub has 300W RMS, should i spring for an amp with 300W rms?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18803&item=5759649283&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Needasystem on 03/12/2005 23:00:28
one more question, I was always under the impression that it takes more power to work a speaker the lower the ohms get, but the amps say it can power 4ohms at 150W, and 2ohms at 300W, so i guess my impressions were wrong, anyone care to set me straight? (i'm still very new to all this stuff, i basically got into it a week ago)
compvr15s on 03/12/2005 23:03:42
no it dont take more for lower impedence it just gives more power. but you can not change the impedence of a speaker with out adding other speakers or resistors. just has less resistance with lower ohms allowing more power.
swez on 03/13/2005 10:47:17
In amplifier terms, if we change the resistive load the amp is applying power too, the actual work the amp can do will increase or decrease proportionally to the load. (within design limits of the amp)
Example: A 3000 lbs car has a HP rating of say 300 HP @ 5,500 RPM. It can do 0-60 MPH in say 7.0 seconds. Now, we shed some weight from the car. (say we chop off 1000 lbs) What do you think will happen to the 0-60 time clock? Right! Time will be shorter as now, that 300 HP is pushing a lesser load.
Same basic idea with amplifers. If we change the resistive load load to the amplifier, we get more watts to the load. (speaker = load) OK, hope that makes more sense now.
As for amp choices, if you can find a JBL BP300.1 refurb or used for under $125.00, that a deal worth diving on. As for subs, can go with Infinity, JBL, Alpine or any other brand you like that can handle 300 Wrms and give you a 2 ohm load. (a 4+4 DVC will do) Once you have a sub in mind, we can then tackle the box dimensions matter.
Hope that helps,
Swez SMILE
Needasystem on 03/13/2005 13:29:15
I know I cant say this enough, but I am going to keep doing it anyway, THANKS SO MUCH for all the help you guys are giving me.
I can get a refurb JBL BP300.1 amp for 120+s&h from cardomain.com
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLBP3001Z
I was wondering what you thought of this sub, its an infinity kappa perfect, 12" 350W RMS, for 130 after shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48614&item=5760375338&rd=1
Oh, and one of the reasons i was confused is because of this website
http://www.audiovideo101.com/dictionary/dictionary.asp?dictionaryid=323
said "As speaker impedance decreases, more current flows and the amplifier is called upon to output more power to the speaker. " which makes it sound like its more difficult to power speakers at lower ohms.
Victor on 03/14/2005 00:13:17
Well that statement is very TRUE.. i guess you are mis-understaznding it.
here is a short explanation, according to the ohms law, lower the impedance more current will pass thru . that means that if a load of 2ohms and 4ohms are attached respectively to the same amplifier then more current will pass through the lower load.
for example If an amplifier is rated at 4ohms and gives out 500wrms then at the load of 2 ohms it would "ideally" give out a 1000wrms, hence if your amplifier is rated to take lower impedences of 2ohms or 1 ohms then to get the maximum power out of the amplifier you can run it at lower impedences.
Hope that helps..
Victor...
P.S :- why did u not read the first sentence...??
""""The greater the ohm value the more difficult it is for current to flow through a given circuit. Conversely, a low ohm value represents a low resistance and the easy flow of current through a circuit.""""
swez on 03/14/2005 08:28:01
That Infinity sub noted will work fine. Also, consider this series as well from Alpine.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18803&item=5756541654&rd=1
Great amp price: http://www.ikesound.com/product-product_id/2145
Alpine: Alpine MRD-M301 $135.00
350 Wrms @ 14.4 volts, nice menu driven Parametric Bass EQ and much more. Have a closer look:
http://www.alpine-usa.com/
Swez
Needasystem on 03/14/2005 10:23:48
Thanks Victor, I think I finally get it now, and I did read that first sentence, but I read it wrong.
Swez,
That alpine sub looks nice, but I was wondering how that sub would be better than the infinity sub already mentioned? Is it any better, or would it just be cheaper?
That amp does look nice, but I was wondering about the 14.4V power requirements, I only have a stock electrical system in my OLD car, so I'm not sure it could provide the power it needs to preform properly. If it doesnt make a difference, that is definentally a nice amp for me to consider.
I'll probably be ordering whichever setup I decide on (probably alpine amp and infinity sub) and I also need a suggestion on what is a good amp install kit to pick up.
I'm not that picky, and as you people have probably noticed, I am very impressionable when it comes to things like this because of my limited knowledge and experience. (You : "Here, look, this is a nice sub" Me : "OMG I must have that!!!" You : "...But this is also nice..." Me : "OOO, now I like that one better!")
What it really comes down to is me wanting your suggestions, and what you would think is best considering your FAR superior knowledge of car audio, and my limited access to speakers for my own testing. I just heard my friends system today, he had 2 12" in a ported enclosure, PBX subs, and it was nice, but I think it was too much SPL and not enough SQ for me.
I would probably have to change my liking to 75%SQ/25%SPL because I know that if i get a good SQ system I can always crank it up plenty loud for my tastes. With that said, I think that infinity sub will probably work pretty well for me in a sealed enclosure, as for the amp, that alpine is nice, but that jbl bp300.1 also looks nice, so I'm split on that decision, but I know that the JBL has a good rep for making good amps.
Ok, thats all for now, I'm going to have to get back to school, so I will thank you again for all your help and eagerly await your responses and suggestions.
swez on 03/14/2005 15:50:56
Personally, I have nothing against Infinity subs or amps. They are very good SQL subs and pretty honest amps.
However, of late... have been researching and recommending Alpine amps and subs to many who demand high quaility and are looking for same with a tight budget. The feedback I have been getting from those who took that suggestion, are all very positive. Not one complaint in the lot.
You mentioned your older car may not be able to develop the 14.4 volts. This can easlily be verified withthe digital voltage gage within the Alpine MRD-M301 menu setup steps. It will give you actual voltage readings the amp is getting. Even if you see a nominal 13.5 volt reading, still have over 300 Wrms to the sub at 2 ohms.
As for wiring kits, Street Wires has good kits available off e-bay for under $25.00. If this is the only amp you plan to use, a #8 wiring kit is adequate. However, if you think you may add a 2nd amp later, go for the #4 gage amp kit.
Swez
Needasystem on 03/14/2005 18:05:55
I'll probably pick up another amp and sub later on so I will go with a #4 gague amp kit. I've decided to get that infinity sub, and will order it once I get home (not going to do anything like that at school)
here's the sub, with specs
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48614&item=5760375338&rd=1
I was wondering what the dimensions will need to be for the sealed enclosure I plan to build, so that I can get started and have something to do while I waitfor the equipment to arrive.
Needasystem on 03/14/2005 18:48:40
If I am not getting that full 14.4Volts, what can I do to fix that later on? New alternator? If so, will I have to look for a special alternator, or are most alternators nowadays able to give out 14.4V? (i think the alternator in my car was replaced about 5 years ago, so its not THAT old, like the rest of my car)
And for the sealed enclosure/sub, what is generally the best setup for a hatchback? I could point the sub back, away from me, and have it bounce off the back window, or point it straight up, or I could make an angled enclosure and angle it towards the front of the car? Suggestions are welcome.
montego_27 on 03/14/2005 19:22:58
That vehicle came w/ either a 55 or 60 amp alternator(OEM) depending on the accessories that came w/ the car.I think your going to have to upgrade that a bit depending on amperage draw from new equipment(amps).It may be difficult to find a higher amperage alternator due to age and model of your car, but you can also have your current alternator re-wound to give you higher output.
Good Luck, Tego
Needasystem on 03/14/2005 21:59:27
I've never heard of having an alternator re-wound before, how does that work?
montego_27 on 03/14/2005 23:15:33
Punching in key words into your search engine like: "alternator" and "rewind" can yield some good results sometimes....
http://www.mtmscientific.com/rewind.html
Needasystem on 03/14/2005 23:47:56
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32808&item=5759140417&rd=1
Would that be a fine amp kit to get? all the streetwires 4gauge amp kits were outside my price range.
compvr15s on 03/15/2005 00:07:12
that amp kit will work fine for what you need.
Needasystem on 03/15/2005 02:34:03
Alright, cool. I just finished ordering all my stuff, got the alpine amp from ikesound, got that amp kit, and the infinity sub.
How do I find out what I need the dimensions on the sealed enclosure I plan to build need to be? Should I try to figure that out now, or just wait and look at the documents that come with the sub?
Victor on 03/15/2005 02:55:19
Wait for the Docs,,, the manufacturers provide with dimensions and details for optimum performace..
Victor...
Needasystem on 03/15/2005 03:02:04
http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Boxes%20and%20Parameters/P12.1d_f.pdf
thats the specifications for the box that i need to build, says 1.00ft^3 for the volume of the box. It says "includes displacement" but i'm not sure how its including it, by including it does it mean i really need to make a box of probably .85ft^3, or do i need to make one that is 1.15ft^3, or do i just need to make a variation of a 12x12x12 box? (like 13x13x10.22 for 1ft^3 with enough room on the sides to fit the speaker into it (instead of 12x12x12)
swez on 03/15/2005 05:33:39
OK, you are well on your way here so far. The enclosure you will want to build needs to be close to 1^ft internally for a sealed box on that sub. The external dimensions for a 12" sub will have to be larger than 12" H & W to accomodate the sub cutout. I would recommend a minimum of 15" H and W here. If using 3/4" MDF (recommended) your external depth will be 11". This nets a 1.008 ft^3 internal volume.
The panel cuts for this size are:
Top & Bottom: 15" x 11" x 3/4" (2 panels)
Sides: 13.5" x 11" x 3/4" (2 panels)
Front & Back: 13.5" x 13.5" x 3/4" (2 panels)
The speaker cutout will need to be 10-7/8" dia.
Use 1" thickness of fiberfill, polyfill or fiberglass batting material on back, sides, top & bottom. (inside the box) All that remains to purchase, is a wire termination cup. Can get this at Best Buy, Circuit City or Radio Shack. This style is recommended:
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011
%5F003%5F001%5F012&product%5Fid=274%2D630
Also, will need about 1/4 sheet of 3/4" MDF for this size box. (~1000 in^2) May have to purchase a 48" x 48" x 3/4" size panel of MDF. If you buy from Home Depot, they can rough cut your panels to specified dimensions for about 50 cents per cut. That way, your panels are uniform and square. All you need then, are drywall screws or 1.5" brad nails and carpenter's glue for assembly. If you wish to carpet the box, they have that too. Just buy a can of 3M Super 77 spray adhesive and have at it.
FYI: When using screws, always pre-drill holes with a 1/8" pilot hole to prevent wood splitting. (#6 1-5/8" is fine) See this link for assembly tips.
http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm
Swez
alanjlamore on 03/15/2005 08:15:25
Let us know your experience with ikesound. I was thinking about buying the alpine M605 amp from there since it's a regular company and only about $5.00 more than ebay's cheapest listing (with shipping included).
I was hesitant to buy from there though because I did a quick search on google and saw some bad remarks about that website, but hopefully that was just a couple bad experiences a long time ago.
Looks like you'll have a great system, and you've definitly come to the right place for the best support and to get the best deals.
Needasystem on 03/15/2005 15:29:37
I was slightly reluctant to purchase anything from ikesound.com because I also saw some negative reviews, but I also found a number of very positive reviews, and it appears to be recommended often on a number of other car audio fourms, so I figured I would go ahead and order from them.
Needasystem on 03/15/2005 15:47:39
I was wondering if there is anything wrong with using a lesser wood substance, like partacle board or plywood as a temperary enclosure, since I wont be able to get ahold of MDF for a week or two.
Also, I was wondering what the wire termination cup is for, since that link swez listed doesnt seem to go to a product.
Oh, and one more thing, how do you suggest getting the wires from the sub to the outside of the box? Drill a hole and stick the wires through, then fill the hole with glue? Or is there a special and nifty way to do it?
gearhead on 03/15/2005 16:08:16
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F003%5F001%5F012&product%5Fid=274%2D630
Try that. It should answer your questions about the termination cups. As dar as using particle board or plywood as a temp, why waste the time and $$$?
swez on 03/15/2005 16:45:44
Don't even go there on partical board or plywood. Plywood has too many voids and box will be leaky. Partical board is a porous and takes on moisture and will eventually fall apart if you dont seal the wood well.
As for terminating your sub to the amp, there are several options to do this. I like the 5-way binding post for ease of use. Using a banana jack is basically plug and play. Very simple to use.
Swez
Needasystem on 03/15/2005 17:26:06
Thanks for the link gearhead, turns out I knew what you were talking about once I saw a picture, I just didnt know the name.
And the reason I would make a temp enclosure out of one of those substances is because I've got a pile of it in my garage right now, and I only would be keeping it for a week or 2 at the longest, but if its worthless then I'll go try and find some fiberboard at a lumberyard that isnt too far away.
One more thing about the terminal, is it absolutely necessary to do that, or is it just to make it eaiser in the future for transporting the enclosure?
(edit: those terminals look pretty cheap, and there is a radio shack less than a mile from my home, so I'll pick one of those up.)
compvr15s on 03/15/2005 18:32:18
using the terminal is not necessary but it does work alo better than drilling hole for wire to go through then caulk it in... the terminals are air tight and make the box look alot cleaner. dont have to worry bout pullin wires lose or anything,if you go the other way and for some reason your box moves, more than likely you will pull wires loose and then wont have an airtight seal... paying the 5dollars or so it totally worth it.... when at lumber yard, see if they carry pre cut boards, since you will not need a full sheet, my be able to my 5 med size pieces like 20x20 or so for sides and then 2 smaller pieces like 15x15 for front back, i know the menards by me carrys wood like that, and they will even cut to size and discard left overs for free.....may be another option, wont even need to cut boards just for terminal and for sub cut outt, then alls you need is box of screws and good sealing caulk to precent any leaks. good luck...
Needasystem on 03/15/2005 23:13:53
I'm going to have to put together a makeshift enclosure from 3/4" waferboard (I think thats what it's called) just so I can use my sub over spring break, and once I can afford it I will make the box out of fiberboard and really use that sub to its full potential.
I've got a friend who just installed a system in his car that is going to help me hook everything up when it gets here, that being said, with an amateur(me) and a guy who at least knows somewhat how to do it(my friend), how long do you think it will take to set this system up?
compvr15s on 03/15/2005 23:39:13
depends on how nice you want it, most of the time is disasembling the car and re asembeling the car, but should be able to do it in a day or maybe a weekend, just depends on how complex and hard it is to get ur car apart
Needasystem on 03/16/2005 01:06:54
I dont think it should take me that long though, only problem I see so far, without disassembling anything, is I cant find a good way to get from the battery to the inside of the cab. It looks like I'll be able to install my apm under the drivers seat and have it pretty well hidden without having to remove the seat to do it.
gearhead on 03/16/2005 01:33:03
Those termination cups are decent (decent being a relative term). I just used 2 of them for some boxes I built. They come with a screwhole in each corner. I added an additional hole between each set of the original holes, so I have 8 screws holding each one. They don't leak and seem to be pretty sturdy.
swez on 03/16/2005 08:47:25
Not sure what you mean by "waferboard" here. Is that the large particals of wood chips and glue used in home construction? If yes, that is called OSB. (Oriented Strand Board) Tough to work with due to large, irregular wood chips embedded in the pressed wood. If you are only making a short term box and have adequate stock of Particle board, that is better then OSB, but not as dense as MDF.
Time for install and box making? Figure 3-4 hours to fab a box. While the glue is curing, do your electricals. That could be a snap or a real pain, depending on how easy you can get your power cable and RCA's installed. Make sure you run the power line on one side of the car and signal lines (RCA's) on the other. This may take a few hours as well. Best guess... 2 guys, some experience, maybe 5-6 hours on a weekend should do it. The tricky part, will be finding/making a hole in the fire wall, installing rubber grommets and feeding the power wire into the cabin. The rest is pretty easy from there.
Swez
Needasystem on 03/16/2005 15:52:17
Yea, the board has those large chips of wood and stuff in it, so yea, I guess its called OSB (I heard it called waferboard before) I might be able to convince someone to take half a sheet of MDF from me, so its possible I might be able to actually make the box out of MDF. One question though, you said I need to put about an inch of fiberfill on the inside of it, is that basically just fiberglass insulation?
So far the only problem I think I will have is finding a hole in the fire wall to get the cables through.
Too bad they are shipping my amp from florida, east coast to west coast, full week for shipping, it's not going to get here until the 23rd.
compvr15s on 03/16/2005 16:47:45
you can use polyfill inside the box, this helps eliminate back noise from the speaker inside the box, also makes the sub feel like its in a lil larger enclosure...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=260-317
here is example... can also use cotton pillow stuffing, it dont take alot, dont jam pack the enclosure, just loosly fill the box.... it also comes in rolls, then alls yo do is lay it in on all the edges, can use a lil glue or whatever to hold it along the wall.
how much osb do you have, if you have enough, may want to glue two layers together, will double the thickness and prevent bowing and flexing, just cake on the wood glue between the two sheets and clamp together, give plenty of time to dry, good luck
Needasystem on 03/16/2005 17:28:15
I have plenty of OSB, 2 sheets that are bout 5' x 9'
It looks like it's only about 1/2" thick though, so it will be real helpful for me to glue a few pieces together.
swez on 03/16/2005 19:43:40
If you choose to use OSB, definitely plan on using 2 layers, glued together for all panels. Use plenty of wood glue to join layers. This stuff flexes a lot at <5/8" thickness. May find it easier to cut sheets into smaller sections, glue and put some weights on it to get proper joinery.
As for the polyfill, can get that at WalMart too. They carry it in bulk bags or in rolls. You can go either way. The best way to secure it into the box, is by using a staple gun. For best results, use 8-10mm staples.
Swez
01gtpony on 03/16/2005 19:44:10
This link explains the difference between MDF, Particleboard and OSB.
http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=pg&p=Build/OSBMDFPart.html&rn=RightNavFiles/rightNavHowTo
Hopefully it will help.
01gtpony
Needasystem on 03/17/2005 00:16:55
Yea, that link helped alot, thx 01gtpony.
Well guys, all my stuff doesnt arrive for a few days, and right now I think I am out of questions to ask you, so it looks like I'll have to just lurk around the fourms for a few days. When all my stuff arrives chances are I'll run into some kind of problem and you will hear back from me, and when everything is finished I'll make sure to tell you all how it comes out.
Thanks for all the help everyone.
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