Is Phoenix Gold Octane series coaxials THAT much of a lesser grade than the other names I'm considering?
I'm sure everyone here alread knows the brands I'm still considering, but just for the sake of it, let me post it one more time.
Eclipse Integrated series
Infinity Kappa and Reference series
Phoenix Gold Octane series
Planet Audio M2 series
Kove Audio XTC series
Boston Acoustics FX series
JL Audio Evolution TR series
Now the question is, how come Phoenix Golds cost so much less than others? I go on eBay and see them for anywhere from $40 to no more than $100, but that would even be high. Then I see Eclipses and Infinitys for $80 and up, sometimes WAY up. It's that way on most websites that sell speakers too.
Also, someone on here already said that their coaxials are better than Pioneer/Sony, but not really up to par with the rest of the high end market. Do I just need to take them off of the list? I can't preview them anyway sound wise, I just have to go on looks, specs, and your recommendations only.
Replies (11)
Victor on 02/21/2005 01:11:58
Man... i bet... I am tired too..
I understand your confusion for this.. But you have to compromise somewhere..
You got choices of a King and the budget of an ordinary man.. no hard feelings.. all of us fall into the same category , but then you have to let go somewhere....
either sound, looks or price somewhere you have to compromise..
Cant go on and on like this.. you will never find a perfect set which matches your standards..
Another thing there are basically 8-10 odd speaker manufacturers in the world.. all the brands you see on the market use speakers from these manufacturers and tweak them a bit , put their symbols and colour them, add grilles and pack them and finally put them on for sale.. but basically most of them are the same..
So it all depends on the quality and price.. If you buy a set of components ( Retail ) worth 300$ then most of the comps falling in that range will sound above average and somewhat similar..
If you buy a comp set in the price range of $70 then you will find that most of the products available are not upto the mark.
This kind of hot discussion picks up when some of my customers make such a fuss.. they dont wanna modify their car for any custom speaker install.. they dont wanna spend more.. they want amazing sounding system.. they want a very loud system..they want a very good looking system..
I really cant understand what they are looking for.. seems to me that they want a couple of audio systems and not one..
imagine.. if u ask me what kinda girl i would want to marry and i say , i want a beautiful girl.. i want a loving girl. a caring girl, a girl who can take care of my house, take care of my parents, who can be a nice mother, a girl who is really hot in bed, a girl who is rich,a girl who doesnt spend much, a girl who can take all the **** from me and wont say a word, a girl who lets me sleep with other women, etc.... and on and on..
tell me will one ever find a girl like this.. the answer is definitely a big NO.. i guess i can get all these qualities if a marry 3 or 4 different girls.
do u get my point...??
Give up somewhere dude. orelse this confusion will go on and on..
Victor..
audeogod on 02/21/2005 09:23:48
Ok, time for compromise #1, and this will cut a couple from the list just like that.
1. I will not buy a speaker without being able to hear it first.
Therefore Infinity Kappa, , Planet Audio, and Kove Audio are gone from the list since I cannot locate a dealer anywhere near me to preview them except for Infinity Kappa, and that is like over 200 miles away.
I cannot compromise looks or sound though since I know it's possible for the speakers to do one or the other, then I think the speakers should do both. And of course, Eclipse does this so that's most likely the choice, but I want to preview out the rest of the list before making the final decision.
I did manage to locate a dealer for Phoenix Gold finally. Just barely over 90 miles away. Not too bad, about 1 1/2 hour drive. I will definitely call first to see if they have a sound board with Phoenix Gold Octane's on it before I go though.
I guess I'll also cut Boston Acoustics from the list as well since their sound was impressive bass wise, but the mids sounded more like Sony Xplods than anything else. I can get that right here with Sony's so why pay more to get the same thing.
I guess I should thank you for giving me a swift kick in the behind and finally making me bite the bullet.
Victor on 02/21/2005 10:36:49
Well good.. that was not meant to be a kick in your behind .. but if it did kick then i feel its good since you are now on a better track..
that leaves you with Eclipse and PG octane series...
Both are highly reputed manufacturers with a solid product line.
Both are more or less priced similarly..
To solve the confusion between both of them i guess the best idea is to audition those products..
As soon as you listen to them you will pull out the wallet from ur pocket and buy the product..
Victor...
P.S. I guess you are more bent on the eclipse because u like them in looks. they are great sounding comps too.. if you want to solve the confusion at this stage , i feel you go ahead and buy those comps .. u will be proud of them for long and will not regret buying them.
The PG octane series 5 3/4" and the 6 1/2" are more Mid Bass spitting comps and ok in the MR and smooth in the reproduction of highs...
While the eclipse will give you good MB with solid MR performance and smooth highs.
The choice is yours.. I have heard both of these at a friends install bay and both of them are very good in their own way.
Wish you best of luck and hope to see no more post on this topic from your side ( dont mean to discourage you , just wanna help you come over this confusion as soon as possible.)
Pinch on 02/21/2005 11:31:08
You have several threads related to this topic, so I am sorry if I missed one where you finalized a solution already or not....but I wanted to throw my proverbial 2-cents at 'cha anyway. :) First off, AWESEOME work on the research! If half the people who came into my shop took the time to know what they wanted before shopping, I'd have it easy. Anyway, I think I read that you are planning on installs in several cars. I would recommend against buying all the equipment for all the cars right away. Why not take one car you'll get a chance to drive around a lot and install in that one as a sort of test dummy first, then switch brands if you need to? Also, about paying more $ for a brand like CDT, you are going to pay for good research. Plain and simple. Think about the time and $ you have invested in researching different brands...driving to other cities and shops. Well the folks at CDT invest their time and money trying to solve problems you addresed in one of your posts. Namely, the soundstage in a car. Speakers are seldom aimed correctly, and even if they are, there is crap between them and your ear.
http://www.cdtaudio.com/stagefront_upstage_systems.htm
This is just one thing they have done to help remedy this problem. Even without this, their speakers sound much better than anything I've heard...ever. At a local shop, they have a sound board with Infinity Kappa, Eclipse, JL Audio, and Alpine Type R/X components. I've installed JL, Kappa, Kappa-Perfect, and Type R components into several different vehicles. Nothing comes close to the CDT. In my own vehicles, I've installed:
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-HD-642-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-101126.htm twice. Both times I thought wow, there is nothing better than this. Then I managed to get my hands on:
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-ES-643-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-101107.htm
These were/are flat out magical. They inspired me to get into fiberglass work required to make custom door panels for my 4Runner. It's been fun, an awesome learning experience, and will do justice to those speakers once I am finished.
I guess my point in all this is that I've heard the best (IMO) and it would be unfair for me NOT to tell anyone seeking information about speakers about them.
Pinch
MrBrownstone on 02/21/2005 12:21:39
http://p205.ezboard.com/fcaraudioknowledgefrm7.showMessage?topicID=16.topic
reasonably good link on how to select components. Basically, about 20 or so manufactures use the same builder, and those that don't haven't improved on the speaker much.
Once you spend $x on speakers, you're only going to hear minor differences, and if you're that finicky, you'll use an EQ and get the same results with most all higher quality speakers.
Speakers are the only product in the car that I would error on the side of spending more money. Amps, are easy to discern value. Head Units are all the same sounding, just different features. RCA and cables--so long as large enough, are all the same.
Speakers, are like singing voices. Many can sing that same song, but slightly different signatures to each voice.
Remember, Installation is 90% of the battle, only 10% relies on the equipment. 9% of that is the speaker :-)
Victor on 02/21/2005 12:52:50
well.. thats a very controversial % you have put out MR.B.. nevertheless i would not wanna comment on it..
Victor..
audeogod on 02/21/2005 14:56:45
It's not really just down to the two brands. I still have Infinity Reference, JL Audio Evolution TR, Eclipse Integrated, and Phoenix Gold Octane, all 4 on the list.
I can preview 3 out of the 4 with just a 1/2 hour to 45 minute trip over into WV. That's not too bad. Infinity Reference is at Circuit City. JL and Eclipse are both at the same car audio shop in Huntington.
I have to drive some distance to preview the Phoenix Gold.
My research has not costed me very much at all though. I had to go to Lexington for a continuing education course to maintain my electrical licenses anyway. While I was there, I shopped around some. My wife looked up the different shop addresses we went to before hand so I just drove straight to them once I got out of school. About 5 - 10 minutes was all it took to get there from the school. The trip to Lexington from Ashland was necessary even if I did not look for speakers.
And the trip to Huntington is usually done when we go to a mall for other things as well. That's where Circuit City is too. I just take a detour on the side to go to the audio shop. Takes about 45 minutes total from my house to the mall, and I have to pass that audio shop on the way. So that's easy too.
The preview of Phoenix Gold will be a drive, but we will just go and make a day out of it, see some sites, get something to eat, have a good time, and while we are out, we will look at those speakers as well. We look at it like it's an adventure, not a money costing chore. Then once that's done, I'll finally be able to make a selection having heard all 4 final candidates.
For Pinch, thanks for your comments on CDT. I am making 3 different systems, one in a Chevy truck, one in a Chrysler Cirrus, and one in my house in my pool table room running on a power supply. I did look at CDT several different times. However, I not only ruled them out based on price, but lack of different sizes as well. I didn't see where they offered any oval sizes, and I need 4x6's and 6x9's as well as 3 1/2's and 6 1/2's. The 6 1/2 size is the only size I saw that CDT made that I can use, and they mostly look way too deep to fit in my doors. I am unwilling to compromise on the putting different brands front and rear in the car and truck for lack of available sizes in one brand. And of course, the house system will have 4 speakers all identical, so it's the only one I could use CDT's on. I just figure if I like what's in the cars, I'll like it in the house too though. Also, not to bash them or anything cause that's not what I want to do if you like them, but anyway, they just didn't look appealing to me when I first saw them, visually that is. That's half of the shopping around I'm doing. Visual image and sound.
Now of the 4 brands that are left, I still have to check on a few things like mounting depths. Some may be eliminated by that. I think the Eclipses, Infinity References, and Phoenix Golds will fit everywhere, but don't know about JL's.
But as for information on here from you guys, I'm putting the speaker debate to bed. I'll make my selection, and then, maybe I'll tell you which one I finally bought. And I don't expect that I'll need that much advice on an amp unless it's just to find out if one name is better than another, or what your favorite is.
audeogod on 02/21/2005 15:09:05
OH, and one more thing I want to say:
THANK YOU
Thanks for your advice, your comments, all your suggestions, and MOSTLY, thank you for your patience with me on this issue.
This list started out with nearly 15 names and series on it. To get it down to 4 is quite a job well done. You'd have to know me. I almost can't make a decision and stick to it. That's another reason for all the research I did. If I present myself with hard evidence of a speaker's ineligability, then I cannot deny it and later change my mind again. So to me, it's worth all the research time, driving time, and all that it costs, whatever it may be, to be satisfied in the end.
uochronos on 02/21/2005 15:13:58
hehe NP many of us are the same way... i have been shopping for the perfect wooffer for 2 years now or so hehe... i well pick one one day when i find perfection... maybe...:)
happy we have been able to get you narrowed down though.
Chronos
danielm87 on 02/21/2005 15:20:26
2 years searching? Interesting, but probably would be worth checking everything out.
Got anything in mind?
just curious what your weapon of choice might be.
uochronos on 02/21/2005 15:27:48
looking at the brahma, ED Av2(when it comes out) or a couple others from time to time... been diverting funds to other hobbies latly. so not been looking real hard currently. but the brahma is the best one for my tastes in my price range so far.
Chronos
I'm sure everyone here alread knows the brands I'm still considering, but just for the sake of it, let me post it one more time.
Eclipse Integrated series
Infinity Kappa and Reference series
Phoenix Gold Octane series
Planet Audio M2 series
Kove Audio XTC series
Boston Acoustics FX series
JL Audio Evolution TR series
Now the question is, how come Phoenix Golds cost so much less than others? I go on eBay and see them for anywhere from $40 to no more than $100, but that would even be high. Then I see Eclipses and Infinitys for $80 and up, sometimes WAY up. It's that way on most websites that sell speakers too.
Also, someone on here already said that their coaxials are better than Pioneer/Sony, but not really up to par with the rest of the high end market. Do I just need to take them off of the list? I can't preview them anyway sound wise, I just have to go on looks, specs, and your recommendations only.
Replies (11)
Victor on 02/21/2005 01:11:58
Man... i bet... I am tired too..
I understand your confusion for this.. But you have to compromise somewhere..
You got choices of a King and the budget of an ordinary man.. no hard feelings.. all of us fall into the same category , but then you have to let go somewhere....
either sound, looks or price somewhere you have to compromise..
Cant go on and on like this.. you will never find a perfect set which matches your standards..
Another thing there are basically 8-10 odd speaker manufacturers in the world.. all the brands you see on the market use speakers from these manufacturers and tweak them a bit , put their symbols and colour them, add grilles and pack them and finally put them on for sale.. but basically most of them are the same..
So it all depends on the quality and price.. If you buy a set of components ( Retail ) worth 300$ then most of the comps falling in that range will sound above average and somewhat similar..
If you buy a comp set in the price range of $70 then you will find that most of the products available are not upto the mark.
This kind of hot discussion picks up when some of my customers make such a fuss.. they dont wanna modify their car for any custom speaker install.. they dont wanna spend more.. they want amazing sounding system.. they want a very loud system..they want a very good looking system..
I really cant understand what they are looking for.. seems to me that they want a couple of audio systems and not one..
imagine.. if u ask me what kinda girl i would want to marry and i say , i want a beautiful girl.. i want a loving girl. a caring girl, a girl who can take care of my house, take care of my parents, who can be a nice mother, a girl who is really hot in bed, a girl who is rich,a girl who doesnt spend much, a girl who can take all the **** from me and wont say a word, a girl who lets me sleep with other women, etc.... and on and on..
tell me will one ever find a girl like this.. the answer is definitely a big NO.. i guess i can get all these qualities if a marry 3 or 4 different girls.
do u get my point...??
Give up somewhere dude. orelse this confusion will go on and on..
Victor..
audeogod on 02/21/2005 09:23:48
Ok, time for compromise #1, and this will cut a couple from the list just like that.
1. I will not buy a speaker without being able to hear it first.
Therefore Infinity Kappa, , Planet Audio, and Kove Audio are gone from the list since I cannot locate a dealer anywhere near me to preview them except for Infinity Kappa, and that is like over 200 miles away.
I cannot compromise looks or sound though since I know it's possible for the speakers to do one or the other, then I think the speakers should do both. And of course, Eclipse does this so that's most likely the choice, but I want to preview out the rest of the list before making the final decision.
I did manage to locate a dealer for Phoenix Gold finally. Just barely over 90 miles away. Not too bad, about 1 1/2 hour drive. I will definitely call first to see if they have a sound board with Phoenix Gold Octane's on it before I go though.
I guess I'll also cut Boston Acoustics from the list as well since their sound was impressive bass wise, but the mids sounded more like Sony Xplods than anything else. I can get that right here with Sony's so why pay more to get the same thing.
I guess I should thank you for giving me a swift kick in the behind and finally making me bite the bullet.
Victor on 02/21/2005 10:36:49
Well good.. that was not meant to be a kick in your behind .. but if it did kick then i feel its good since you are now on a better track..
that leaves you with Eclipse and PG octane series...
Both are highly reputed manufacturers with a solid product line.
Both are more or less priced similarly..
To solve the confusion between both of them i guess the best idea is to audition those products..
As soon as you listen to them you will pull out the wallet from ur pocket and buy the product..
Victor...
P.S. I guess you are more bent on the eclipse because u like them in looks. they are great sounding comps too.. if you want to solve the confusion at this stage , i feel you go ahead and buy those comps .. u will be proud of them for long and will not regret buying them.
The PG octane series 5 3/4" and the 6 1/2" are more Mid Bass spitting comps and ok in the MR and smooth in the reproduction of highs...
While the eclipse will give you good MB with solid MR performance and smooth highs.
The choice is yours.. I have heard both of these at a friends install bay and both of them are very good in their own way.
Wish you best of luck and hope to see no more post on this topic from your side ( dont mean to discourage you , just wanna help you come over this confusion as soon as possible.)
Pinch on 02/21/2005 11:31:08
You have several threads related to this topic, so I am sorry if I missed one where you finalized a solution already or not....but I wanted to throw my proverbial 2-cents at 'cha anyway. :) First off, AWESEOME work on the research! If half the people who came into my shop took the time to know what they wanted before shopping, I'd have it easy. Anyway, I think I read that you are planning on installs in several cars. I would recommend against buying all the equipment for all the cars right away. Why not take one car you'll get a chance to drive around a lot and install in that one as a sort of test dummy first, then switch brands if you need to? Also, about paying more $ for a brand like CDT, you are going to pay for good research. Plain and simple. Think about the time and $ you have invested in researching different brands...driving to other cities and shops. Well the folks at CDT invest their time and money trying to solve problems you addresed in one of your posts. Namely, the soundstage in a car. Speakers are seldom aimed correctly, and even if they are, there is crap between them and your ear.
http://www.cdtaudio.com/stagefront_upstage_systems.htm
This is just one thing they have done to help remedy this problem. Even without this, their speakers sound much better than anything I've heard...ever. At a local shop, they have a sound board with Infinity Kappa, Eclipse, JL Audio, and Alpine Type R/X components. I've installed JL, Kappa, Kappa-Perfect, and Type R components into several different vehicles. Nothing comes close to the CDT. In my own vehicles, I've installed:
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-HD-642-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-101126.htm twice. Both times I thought wow, there is nothing better than this. Then I managed to get my hands on:
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-ES-643-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-101107.htm
These were/are flat out magical. They inspired me to get into fiberglass work required to make custom door panels for my 4Runner. It's been fun, an awesome learning experience, and will do justice to those speakers once I am finished.
I guess my point in all this is that I've heard the best (IMO) and it would be unfair for me NOT to tell anyone seeking information about speakers about them.
Pinch
MrBrownstone on 02/21/2005 12:21:39
http://p205.ezboard.com/fcaraudioknowledgefrm7.showMessage?topicID=16.topic
reasonably good link on how to select components. Basically, about 20 or so manufactures use the same builder, and those that don't haven't improved on the speaker much.
Once you spend $x on speakers, you're only going to hear minor differences, and if you're that finicky, you'll use an EQ and get the same results with most all higher quality speakers.
Speakers are the only product in the car that I would error on the side of spending more money. Amps, are easy to discern value. Head Units are all the same sounding, just different features. RCA and cables--so long as large enough, are all the same.
Speakers, are like singing voices. Many can sing that same song, but slightly different signatures to each voice.
Remember, Installation is 90% of the battle, only 10% relies on the equipment. 9% of that is the speaker :-)
Victor on 02/21/2005 12:52:50
well.. thats a very controversial % you have put out MR.B.. nevertheless i would not wanna comment on it..
Victor..
audeogod on 02/21/2005 14:56:45
It's not really just down to the two brands. I still have Infinity Reference, JL Audio Evolution TR, Eclipse Integrated, and Phoenix Gold Octane, all 4 on the list.
I can preview 3 out of the 4 with just a 1/2 hour to 45 minute trip over into WV. That's not too bad. Infinity Reference is at Circuit City. JL and Eclipse are both at the same car audio shop in Huntington.
I have to drive some distance to preview the Phoenix Gold.
My research has not costed me very much at all though. I had to go to Lexington for a continuing education course to maintain my electrical licenses anyway. While I was there, I shopped around some. My wife looked up the different shop addresses we went to before hand so I just drove straight to them once I got out of school. About 5 - 10 minutes was all it took to get there from the school. The trip to Lexington from Ashland was necessary even if I did not look for speakers.
And the trip to Huntington is usually done when we go to a mall for other things as well. That's where Circuit City is too. I just take a detour on the side to go to the audio shop. Takes about 45 minutes total from my house to the mall, and I have to pass that audio shop on the way. So that's easy too.
The preview of Phoenix Gold will be a drive, but we will just go and make a day out of it, see some sites, get something to eat, have a good time, and while we are out, we will look at those speakers as well. We look at it like it's an adventure, not a money costing chore. Then once that's done, I'll finally be able to make a selection having heard all 4 final candidates.
For Pinch, thanks for your comments on CDT. I am making 3 different systems, one in a Chevy truck, one in a Chrysler Cirrus, and one in my house in my pool table room running on a power supply. I did look at CDT several different times. However, I not only ruled them out based on price, but lack of different sizes as well. I didn't see where they offered any oval sizes, and I need 4x6's and 6x9's as well as 3 1/2's and 6 1/2's. The 6 1/2 size is the only size I saw that CDT made that I can use, and they mostly look way too deep to fit in my doors. I am unwilling to compromise on the putting different brands front and rear in the car and truck for lack of available sizes in one brand. And of course, the house system will have 4 speakers all identical, so it's the only one I could use CDT's on. I just figure if I like what's in the cars, I'll like it in the house too though. Also, not to bash them or anything cause that's not what I want to do if you like them, but anyway, they just didn't look appealing to me when I first saw them, visually that is. That's half of the shopping around I'm doing. Visual image and sound.
Now of the 4 brands that are left, I still have to check on a few things like mounting depths. Some may be eliminated by that. I think the Eclipses, Infinity References, and Phoenix Golds will fit everywhere, but don't know about JL's.
But as for information on here from you guys, I'm putting the speaker debate to bed. I'll make my selection, and then, maybe I'll tell you which one I finally bought. And I don't expect that I'll need that much advice on an amp unless it's just to find out if one name is better than another, or what your favorite is.
audeogod on 02/21/2005 15:09:05
OH, and one more thing I want to say:
THANK YOU
Thanks for your advice, your comments, all your suggestions, and MOSTLY, thank you for your patience with me on this issue.
This list started out with nearly 15 names and series on it. To get it down to 4 is quite a job well done. You'd have to know me. I almost can't make a decision and stick to it. That's another reason for all the research I did. If I present myself with hard evidence of a speaker's ineligability, then I cannot deny it and later change my mind again. So to me, it's worth all the research time, driving time, and all that it costs, whatever it may be, to be satisfied in the end.
uochronos on 02/21/2005 15:13:58
hehe NP many of us are the same way... i have been shopping for the perfect wooffer for 2 years now or so hehe... i well pick one one day when i find perfection... maybe...:)
happy we have been able to get you narrowed down though.
Chronos
danielm87 on 02/21/2005 15:20:26
2 years searching? Interesting, but probably would be worth checking everything out.
Got anything in mind?
just curious what your weapon of choice might be.
uochronos on 02/21/2005 15:27:48
looking at the brahma, ED Av2(when it comes out) or a couple others from time to time... been diverting funds to other hobbies latly. so not been looking real hard currently. but the brahma is the best one for my tastes in my price range so far.
Chronos
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
