Is a silk dome tweeter better for rock and metal than a metallic tweeter of aluminum or titanium? Or maybe mylar or any of the other millions of non-metallic materials? Is there enough "metal" already in the music, so to speak(haha), and adding any more would make it sound too harsh and bright?
What material is better for what?
Replies (6)
audeogod on 02/6/2005 15:38:51
Well, I guess I have more questions about speakers. I'll put them here since it's kind of along the same line.
Same question as on the tweeters, but now for the woofers, is aluminum plated going to make the music sound harsher?
Also what good does it do to have a lower sensitivity rating on a speaker(talking about dB's at 1 watt / 1 meter)? More power to get to the same volume level. Seems like that would make it worse. And I know if you are going to add an amp, then it might help, but is that all? Does it make it sound better to have lower sensitivity and more power to get it up there?
uochronos on 02/6/2005 17:30:20
ok going to start with question A
For SPL many people go with metal tweeters they cut threw the strong bass with ease but tend to be harsh... although some companies CDT, MB quart etc say recently they have calmed them down so to speaker.
Now Silk is the SQ guys choice usualy much calmer and far more natural sounding.
question 2
woofer material.. this is a hard one to really say because few companies make the same woofer but one metal and one composit so i have never compared 2 that the only differnce was cone... i can tell you that the Pioneer's, and MTX subs i have heard with metal composit cones where not that impresive. they seems to hit alot punchier and higher. but like i said alot comes into factor there box size, type, etc... so its hard to say how much of a huge differnce there is.
As for questions 3
we know that every time you double the power 1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,etc everytime you double it you gain around 3db of volume
now what the sensitivity tells you is say that one sub is 95db/1watt of input that meanms at 1watt its 95db's well everytime you double the power now you add 3 db to that.. now usualy the higher the sensitivity rating say 93db+ usualy you comprimise alot of SQ and its a SPL driver.. anything below say 86db you are more of a SQ driver usualy...
Now for the anoying part not all companies are completly honest about the sensitivity for insatnce the Adire brahama is only 86db but its louder then most audiobahns that are well over 90db sensitive... which means that both companies get this number a bit differnt.
Chronos
audeogod on 02/6/2005 17:57:41
OK, so on speakers that have lower sensitivities, it's usually an SQ speaker.
If I had a speaker with a rating of 93 dB and feed it 50 watts, and another speaker with a rating of 90 dB and feed it 100 watts, will they both react similarly? More importantly, should they both sound the same SQ wise?
And the aluminum vs. poly cones question was more geared towards coaxials and comps that it was subs.
uochronos on 02/6/2005 18:11:21
in general cloth or composite is always going to react more naturaly then metals..
yes technicaly if you have a 93db speaker 50watts and a 90db sensitivity speaker 100watts they would be about as loud... although enclosure, no inclosure, door mount, kick pannel mount, Xmax, etc all play an important part in how it sounds and how loud...
Chronos
swez on 02/6/2005 18:37:28
Interesting comments and I agree w/ Chronos on his inputs... with a few minor caveats.
1. Speaker sensitivity is just as he said... the higher the "true" sensitivity rating, the more SPL we can get from a given driver, at lower input power. Speaker sensitivity can be altered in two primary ways.
a. Light weight cone, coil and wires used. Materials used in many newer sub designs can be very light weight and thus, it takes less energy to motivate the cone. The more cone motivation we get, the higher the efficiency will be.
b. Some speakers are often designed with very low excursion properties. The coils are short and do not travel too much in the motor system. That too, can make a speaker very efficient as well. The sacrifice is poor low frequency response and power handling.
c. Speaker efficiency ratings often do have a correlation between being strickly for SPL, SQ or a good blen of both. JL, Adire Brahma and several other high end SQ woofers tend to have low Eff ratings. They do this for a reason. They use high density cones and spiders to control excursion limits. Typically, more amp power is needed to reach X-max, but the bass is tight, low and very robust.
d. High Eff subs like Bahn, employ very light weight cones, have huge magnets for more magnetic flux density in the coils and tend to be much less SQ oriented. Loud yes, accurate at high SPL's, depends on the box design employed.
e. In Pro subs, these babies are really over built. Huge magnets, 4" coils, heavy baskets, medium high X-Max numbers and a very sturdy paper cone. Many Pro subs are above 95dB @ 1w/1m. But the trade off here, you generally need a pretty large enclosure, loads of amping power and not clip the amps. The large box helps generate a lot of low bass and it is clean baby...clean. Check out the specs on a Pro line JBL, EV, Peavey Black Widow or comperable subs. Also, they take a real beating all the time and come back for more. That's why they are so expensive in high wattage models.
====================================================
2. Silks and cloth dome tweeters tend to be more natural and less shrill than their metallic based counterparts. Either style can be made to have high or medium efficiencies to match Mids and MB drivers they are often coupled with. It would be foolish to use a 93 Eff tweeter with an 86 Eff MB/Mid driver. The tweeter will be so overpowering, not enjoyable to listen to for very long. (ear fatigue) The only ways to blend a combination like that would be:
a. Bi-amping the drivers... amps for each driver
b. A variable resistor (L-pad) to tone down the tweeters
c. A Zobel network will also tone down a hot tweeter
====================================================
OK, that's about the long and short of it all. Hope we have given you enough info to make a good selection.
Swez USFLAG
cplkittle on 02/7/2005 00:24:05
As far as subwoofers go, I can tell no difference in cone material.
On the other hand, the difference in midrange drivers is significant. Comparing diamond components hex (kevlar cone) and the M6 series (aluminum cone) the M6's come out much brighter and sound more accurate. The same with the Alpine's s-type components (composite) v/s their coax (aluminum).
One recommendation:
when installing components, mount the midrange where it goes, and use double sided tape to temporarily mount the tweeters. Try different locations for the tweets before cutting holes in the dash, A pillar, or door. You will be surprised at the difference in sound. I prefer dash mount equally spaced from the winshield and from the A pillars. Also try the tweeters wired out of phase from the midrange drivers, this produces a quasi center channel effect.
What material is better for what?
Replies (6)
audeogod on 02/6/2005 15:38:51
Well, I guess I have more questions about speakers. I'll put them here since it's kind of along the same line.
Same question as on the tweeters, but now for the woofers, is aluminum plated going to make the music sound harsher?
Also what good does it do to have a lower sensitivity rating on a speaker(talking about dB's at 1 watt / 1 meter)? More power to get to the same volume level. Seems like that would make it worse. And I know if you are going to add an amp, then it might help, but is that all? Does it make it sound better to have lower sensitivity and more power to get it up there?
uochronos on 02/6/2005 17:30:20
ok going to start with question A
For SPL many people go with metal tweeters they cut threw the strong bass with ease but tend to be harsh... although some companies CDT, MB quart etc say recently they have calmed them down so to speaker.
Now Silk is the SQ guys choice usualy much calmer and far more natural sounding.
question 2
woofer material.. this is a hard one to really say because few companies make the same woofer but one metal and one composit so i have never compared 2 that the only differnce was cone... i can tell you that the Pioneer's, and MTX subs i have heard with metal composit cones where not that impresive. they seems to hit alot punchier and higher. but like i said alot comes into factor there box size, type, etc... so its hard to say how much of a huge differnce there is.
As for questions 3
we know that every time you double the power 1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,etc everytime you double it you gain around 3db of volume
now what the sensitivity tells you is say that one sub is 95db/1watt of input that meanms at 1watt its 95db's well everytime you double the power now you add 3 db to that.. now usualy the higher the sensitivity rating say 93db+ usualy you comprimise alot of SQ and its a SPL driver.. anything below say 86db you are more of a SQ driver usualy...
Now for the anoying part not all companies are completly honest about the sensitivity for insatnce the Adire brahama is only 86db but its louder then most audiobahns that are well over 90db sensitive... which means that both companies get this number a bit differnt.
Chronos
audeogod on 02/6/2005 17:57:41
OK, so on speakers that have lower sensitivities, it's usually an SQ speaker.
If I had a speaker with a rating of 93 dB and feed it 50 watts, and another speaker with a rating of 90 dB and feed it 100 watts, will they both react similarly? More importantly, should they both sound the same SQ wise?
And the aluminum vs. poly cones question was more geared towards coaxials and comps that it was subs.
uochronos on 02/6/2005 18:11:21
in general cloth or composite is always going to react more naturaly then metals..
yes technicaly if you have a 93db speaker 50watts and a 90db sensitivity speaker 100watts they would be about as loud... although enclosure, no inclosure, door mount, kick pannel mount, Xmax, etc all play an important part in how it sounds and how loud...
Chronos
swez on 02/6/2005 18:37:28
Interesting comments and I agree w/ Chronos on his inputs... with a few minor caveats.
1. Speaker sensitivity is just as he said... the higher the "true" sensitivity rating, the more SPL we can get from a given driver, at lower input power. Speaker sensitivity can be altered in two primary ways.
a. Light weight cone, coil and wires used. Materials used in many newer sub designs can be very light weight and thus, it takes less energy to motivate the cone. The more cone motivation we get, the higher the efficiency will be.
b. Some speakers are often designed with very low excursion properties. The coils are short and do not travel too much in the motor system. That too, can make a speaker very efficient as well. The sacrifice is poor low frequency response and power handling.
c. Speaker efficiency ratings often do have a correlation between being strickly for SPL, SQ or a good blen of both. JL, Adire Brahma and several other high end SQ woofers tend to have low Eff ratings. They do this for a reason. They use high density cones and spiders to control excursion limits. Typically, more amp power is needed to reach X-max, but the bass is tight, low and very robust.
d. High Eff subs like Bahn, employ very light weight cones, have huge magnets for more magnetic flux density in the coils and tend to be much less SQ oriented. Loud yes, accurate at high SPL's, depends on the box design employed.
e. In Pro subs, these babies are really over built. Huge magnets, 4" coils, heavy baskets, medium high X-Max numbers and a very sturdy paper cone. Many Pro subs are above 95dB @ 1w/1m. But the trade off here, you generally need a pretty large enclosure, loads of amping power and not clip the amps. The large box helps generate a lot of low bass and it is clean baby...clean. Check out the specs on a Pro line JBL, EV, Peavey Black Widow or comperable subs. Also, they take a real beating all the time and come back for more. That's why they are so expensive in high wattage models.
====================================================
2. Silks and cloth dome tweeters tend to be more natural and less shrill than their metallic based counterparts. Either style can be made to have high or medium efficiencies to match Mids and MB drivers they are often coupled with. It would be foolish to use a 93 Eff tweeter with an 86 Eff MB/Mid driver. The tweeter will be so overpowering, not enjoyable to listen to for very long. (ear fatigue) The only ways to blend a combination like that would be:
a. Bi-amping the drivers... amps for each driver
b. A variable resistor (L-pad) to tone down the tweeters
c. A Zobel network will also tone down a hot tweeter
====================================================
OK, that's about the long and short of it all. Hope we have given you enough info to make a good selection.
Swez USFLAG
cplkittle on 02/7/2005 00:24:05
As far as subwoofers go, I can tell no difference in cone material.
On the other hand, the difference in midrange drivers is significant. Comparing diamond components hex (kevlar cone) and the M6 series (aluminum cone) the M6's come out much brighter and sound more accurate. The same with the Alpine's s-type components (composite) v/s their coax (aluminum).
One recommendation:
when installing components, mount the midrange where it goes, and use double sided tape to temporarily mount the tweeters. Try different locations for the tweets before cutting holes in the dash, A pillar, or door. You will be surprised at the difference in sound. I prefer dash mount equally spaced from the winshield and from the A pillars. Also try the tweeters wired out of phase from the midrange drivers, this produces a quasi center channel effect.
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
