Subwoofer - Audiobahn AW1206T in a spec'd out box, with Coustic 801DB amp @2 ohms.
Problem - Been playing around downloading songs from the "bass songs" thread on the site, got some good ones, burned a CD, played it, after an hour or so of playing on and off at 75%+ volume, (not constantly, was switching songs, listening on medium vol, etc.)
- But, regardless, i just so happened to reach back and feel the aluminum cone of the woofer and i burned my hand it was so hot. Scared me to death, i'm not sure if a heated subwoofer is normal after an hour or so of loud&medium volume or not!
- I have the whole installation 100% correct, no clipping at full blast, everythings perfect, but i've never felt a sub get so hot. I was gonna take it out and see if anything looked weird, but i thought i'd do this first.
Just hope i didnt screw something up AGAIN.
Thankya
DM
Replies (19)
compvr15s on 02/4/2005 16:38:40
if your getting 120-130 dbs the sub seems to be working fine, sounds like its not disipating heat for some reason though, have you seen the back side of the sub? does it have a hole through the center of the magnent? i looked at a pic on crutchfield but i cant tell it looks like an opening but it may be covered. if there is indeed a hole back there make sure you didnt get any polyfill inside there dont know the likley hood of this but, i know on my compvrs i can play them for 4hrs or more and they stay cool, hmm wait for swez or chronos to reply they will have more input, good luck and be careful for now till u find whats wrong with it/
danielm87 on 02/4/2005 17:47:27
Thanks for the thought Comp.
Yes it has a "Vented back Plate for cooler operation" (from specs)
HAHAHAHA.
Theres nothing stuck in it, the port is underneath it but its 6 inches below the back of the magnet.
I tested it out again and felt the cone every so often, estimated that in a song with major bass the whole way thru, 4 minutes long, if i play it 5-6 times over non stop then it gets decently hot, very warm at best.
I'm not happy.
Hope someone knows what that p.o.s. is doing. : P
thnx, Dano
danielm87 on 02/4/2005 17:57:38
im going out of town this weekend so i wont be able to reply til sunday night or monday morning. sorry & thanks 4 the help
MrBrownstone on 02/7/2005 14:48:56
Shoot!!! I was expecting a link to some HOT CHicks!!!
Dang it!!
If you take a 75W bulb, turn it on for 1 hour, how hot will it get? Try a 400W bulb for 2 hours, how hot will it be? Although a woofer isn't quite a light bulb, it's awful similar. The difference is that the woofer is a moving mass, and it can ventilate...the bulb can't. However, the woofer is capable of much more power/heat than the 75W bulb, so similar temps are expected.
Heat is a function of the power. The quieter you play, the less heat. Louder, the more heat. This is why speakers are killed off by overheating.
Often times, you can play a speaker 2x it's RMS power and it will not fry..so long as you let it cool intermittently. In your case, you're probably putting RMS power through it continously, so expect it to be as hot as a light bulb.
Nothing is wrong with your woofer,....unless you smell burnt material.
danielm87 on 02/7/2005 21:10:15
Alright ladies, i'm back from my weekend trip to Kentucky.
Well, Mr. B! thanks a bunch ole buddy, i was getting worried about that sub. Although your statement is the truth, the fact that a different sub, such as compvr15's subs can play for hours on end and be cool during play is making my sub problem sound serious.
There isnt any burning smell, so i assume i should regulate the amount of crank-ed-ness i put on my sub? Its still getting hot after an hour of on-and-off @ full&medium volume.
Thankyall
Daniel
MrBrownstone on 02/9/2005 17:19:03
Hey mang, Chrome is the worst heat dissipater in car audio, and Audiobahn loves the stuff. Chrome is the problem.
danielm87 on 02/9/2005 21:08:39
Hard to find the reality in that, but if chrome isnt a good heat dissipater, then it certainly doesnt help to have it all over the sub. But then again it does have a vented magnet which has to help a little bit. Not all subs have a vented magnet do they?
Audiobahn still makes a darn good SPL sub for pretty cheap that will last.
gearhead on 02/9/2005 22:55:31
"Hard to find the reality in that,"- Ask anybody that races cars, motorcycles, etc.. Chrome will hold heat in. #1- It's a layer of metal (3 layers if it's triple plated or show chrome) that will insulate it's substrate, #2- It's extremely smooth. A smooth surface doesn't dissipate heat as well as a rough surface because there is less surface area exposed. Same thing applies to polished aluminum vs. as-cast, matte finish, brushed finish, etc..
uochronos on 02/10/2005 02:42:30
Chrome is a horrible heat dispensor... there is a reason people really hard core into racing dont have a super chromed out engine.... if an engine is built for performance nothing else then chrome shouldnt be used... same with the subs
also no not all subs have a vented magnet... my old alpione got quite hot my new ED sub doesnt and it takes more power... because the cone is made out of a material that disapates heat far faster.
Chronos
swez on 02/10/2005 11:17:40
Interesting factoids on chrome being a poor conductor of heat. One issue not mentioned, is the space between the vent and the back wall of your box. The other, do you have a SS filter on the amp?
1. Having adequate air space to cool a coil from the rear air vent is very important. Most sub makers recommend at least 1x the diameter of the vent, from the nearest board. (1" vent dia, at least 1" spacing to back wall) Personally, 1.5x or larger is better to adequately cool the coil.
2. If you have a ported box, need to know what the port tuning frequency actually is. Anything below PTF, should be filtered out. The higher the filter order, the sharper the slope will be. (An 18dB/octave filter, is better than a 12dB one)
Either one of these conditions will produce excess heat. The light bulb idea mentioned by Mr. B., is a pretty good analogy. The higher the wattage consumed, the more heat will be produced. Hense, the more cone motivation is required to cool the coil. That is one of the down sides of a ported box. The cone does not move as much as in a sealed box, so cooling can become an issue.
Hope that helps,
Swez
danielm87 on 02/10/2005 11:58:05
Thanks Dave.
Yes there is exactly 6 3/8 inches of clearance behind the back of the magnet vent. Enough? ( 5 inch port)
With all displacements, it brings the PTF to 39.4Hz.
My amp's LPF goes down to 40Hz, thats where i set it at.
It also has a defeatable SS filter, goes from OFF, 20Hz, and 40Hz.
I have it set at 40Hz.
Well if CHROME is 100% of the problem, which i doubt it is, theres nothing i can do about it. Maybe take my belt sander or grinder and wear away at the "Cast Aluminum Basket" and the magnet cover until the chrome paint goes away. Then WHAM-O, no more heat! Hehe.
So i guess i should just throw my Bahn sub in the garbage and buy a brand new 12 W7 or a used XXX for a gazillion bucks? (exaggeration)
PROUD
Hmm, i have a question.
When the amp's LPF is set at 40Hz, is it only allowing frequencies above 40Hz, or does it only allow frequencies of 40Hz, none higher.
AND, if i've got the LPF@40Hz and my PTF is 39Hz, then wouldn't it be safe to turn the SS to 20Hz? Because i've noticed it hits a LOT lower with the SS@20Hz or even off.
Thanks for the help.
gearhead on 02/10/2005 12:06:10
"....take my belt sander or grinder and wear away at the "Cast Aluminum Basket""- You may have misunderstood my post. Cast aluminum IS a good heat dissipater.
danielm87 on 02/10/2005 12:35:42
Hehe Ya i know thats why i put "Cast Aluminum Basket" instead of "Chrome". I guess the magnet cover is cast alum. too? If so then chrome is out of the picture.
danielm87 on 02/10/2005 12:40:00
http://audiobahn.com/products/2004Catalog/woofers/woofers.html
Scan through the "Common Features" section on different subs.
You'll notice that the material ranges from spun aluminum to chrome plated 3-dimensional cast aluminium , and on others, such as the AW1206T(mine) it says nothing about CHROME.
gearhead on 02/10/2005 12:47:59
Maybe i should clarify. I'm talking about as-cast aluminum. If cast aluminum has been chrome plated, it loses much of it's heat dissapation ability.
P0werLifter on 02/10/2005 13:05:31
Your LPF should be set higher than 40hz. A low Pass Filter is going to let everything under the set Hz through and filter out everything above the set Hz at a 12dB per octave rolloff (the dB rolloff may vary). You should set the LP higher than 40, id say upwards of 100hz.
As far as the SS filter, Do NOT set it below the PTF. If you set it to 20hz you will damage your woofer because in essence it will go crazy. Below the PTF your woofer can loose control and start going nutz with its excursion and rip the leads off etc etc. (If im not clear enough sry im really tired just woke up).
danielm87 on 02/10/2005 13:38:24
Hey no problem guys, PL, thanks man i've been confused about crossovers for quite some time now.
I think thats been the problem with all my subs, and PL hit the nail right on the head.
whew....sweat off the forehead......
TY
uochronos on 02/10/2005 16:48:54
ya if your LPF was set at 40hz you where hardly playing any bass at all i would imagine
Chronos
danielm87 on 02/10/2005 21:33:26
LOL yeah it hits realllly hard now. In the 40-80Hz range. God geez i'm an idiot.
Before, i wasn't even hearing 70% of the notes in all the music i played, only 40Hz or lower. Now it'll hit nicely all across the spectrum. A lot louder.
AND when i had the LPF at 40Hz, i thought it was hitting really hard. Now its improved like 60%!
Well thanks guys.
Problem - Been playing around downloading songs from the "bass songs" thread on the site, got some good ones, burned a CD, played it, after an hour or so of playing on and off at 75%+ volume, (not constantly, was switching songs, listening on medium vol, etc.)
- But, regardless, i just so happened to reach back and feel the aluminum cone of the woofer and i burned my hand it was so hot. Scared me to death, i'm not sure if a heated subwoofer is normal after an hour or so of loud&medium volume or not!
- I have the whole installation 100% correct, no clipping at full blast, everythings perfect, but i've never felt a sub get so hot. I was gonna take it out and see if anything looked weird, but i thought i'd do this first.
Just hope i didnt screw something up AGAIN.
Thankya
DM
Replies (19)
compvr15s on 02/4/2005 16:38:40
if your getting 120-130 dbs the sub seems to be working fine, sounds like its not disipating heat for some reason though, have you seen the back side of the sub? does it have a hole through the center of the magnent? i looked at a pic on crutchfield but i cant tell it looks like an opening but it may be covered. if there is indeed a hole back there make sure you didnt get any polyfill inside there dont know the likley hood of this but, i know on my compvrs i can play them for 4hrs or more and they stay cool, hmm wait for swez or chronos to reply they will have more input, good luck and be careful for now till u find whats wrong with it/
danielm87 on 02/4/2005 17:47:27
Thanks for the thought Comp.
Yes it has a "Vented back Plate for cooler operation" (from specs)
HAHAHAHA.
Theres nothing stuck in it, the port is underneath it but its 6 inches below the back of the magnet.
I tested it out again and felt the cone every so often, estimated that in a song with major bass the whole way thru, 4 minutes long, if i play it 5-6 times over non stop then it gets decently hot, very warm at best.
I'm not happy.
Hope someone knows what that p.o.s. is doing. : P
thnx, Dano
danielm87 on 02/4/2005 17:57:38
im going out of town this weekend so i wont be able to reply til sunday night or monday morning. sorry & thanks 4 the help
MrBrownstone on 02/7/2005 14:48:56
Shoot!!! I was expecting a link to some HOT CHicks!!!
Dang it!!
If you take a 75W bulb, turn it on for 1 hour, how hot will it get? Try a 400W bulb for 2 hours, how hot will it be? Although a woofer isn't quite a light bulb, it's awful similar. The difference is that the woofer is a moving mass, and it can ventilate...the bulb can't. However, the woofer is capable of much more power/heat than the 75W bulb, so similar temps are expected.
Heat is a function of the power. The quieter you play, the less heat. Louder, the more heat. This is why speakers are killed off by overheating.
Often times, you can play a speaker 2x it's RMS power and it will not fry..so long as you let it cool intermittently. In your case, you're probably putting RMS power through it continously, so expect it to be as hot as a light bulb.
Nothing is wrong with your woofer,....unless you smell burnt material.
danielm87 on 02/7/2005 21:10:15
Alright ladies, i'm back from my weekend trip to Kentucky.
Well, Mr. B! thanks a bunch ole buddy, i was getting worried about that sub. Although your statement is the truth, the fact that a different sub, such as compvr15's subs can play for hours on end and be cool during play is making my sub problem sound serious.
There isnt any burning smell, so i assume i should regulate the amount of crank-ed-ness i put on my sub? Its still getting hot after an hour of on-and-off @ full&medium volume.
Thankyall
Daniel
MrBrownstone on 02/9/2005 17:19:03
Hey mang, Chrome is the worst heat dissipater in car audio, and Audiobahn loves the stuff. Chrome is the problem.
danielm87 on 02/9/2005 21:08:39
Hard to find the reality in that, but if chrome isnt a good heat dissipater, then it certainly doesnt help to have it all over the sub. But then again it does have a vented magnet which has to help a little bit. Not all subs have a vented magnet do they?
Audiobahn still makes a darn good SPL sub for pretty cheap that will last.
gearhead on 02/9/2005 22:55:31
"Hard to find the reality in that,"- Ask anybody that races cars, motorcycles, etc.. Chrome will hold heat in. #1- It's a layer of metal (3 layers if it's triple plated or show chrome) that will insulate it's substrate, #2- It's extremely smooth. A smooth surface doesn't dissipate heat as well as a rough surface because there is less surface area exposed. Same thing applies to polished aluminum vs. as-cast, matte finish, brushed finish, etc..
uochronos on 02/10/2005 02:42:30
Chrome is a horrible heat dispensor... there is a reason people really hard core into racing dont have a super chromed out engine.... if an engine is built for performance nothing else then chrome shouldnt be used... same with the subs
also no not all subs have a vented magnet... my old alpione got quite hot my new ED sub doesnt and it takes more power... because the cone is made out of a material that disapates heat far faster.
Chronos
swez on 02/10/2005 11:17:40
Interesting factoids on chrome being a poor conductor of heat. One issue not mentioned, is the space between the vent and the back wall of your box. The other, do you have a SS filter on the amp?
1. Having adequate air space to cool a coil from the rear air vent is very important. Most sub makers recommend at least 1x the diameter of the vent, from the nearest board. (1" vent dia, at least 1" spacing to back wall) Personally, 1.5x or larger is better to adequately cool the coil.
2. If you have a ported box, need to know what the port tuning frequency actually is. Anything below PTF, should be filtered out. The higher the filter order, the sharper the slope will be. (An 18dB/octave filter, is better than a 12dB one)
Either one of these conditions will produce excess heat. The light bulb idea mentioned by Mr. B., is a pretty good analogy. The higher the wattage consumed, the more heat will be produced. Hense, the more cone motivation is required to cool the coil. That is one of the down sides of a ported box. The cone does not move as much as in a sealed box, so cooling can become an issue.
Hope that helps,
Swez
danielm87 on 02/10/2005 11:58:05
Thanks Dave.
Yes there is exactly 6 3/8 inches of clearance behind the back of the magnet vent. Enough? ( 5 inch port)
With all displacements, it brings the PTF to 39.4Hz.
My amp's LPF goes down to 40Hz, thats where i set it at.
It also has a defeatable SS filter, goes from OFF, 20Hz, and 40Hz.
I have it set at 40Hz.
Well if CHROME is 100% of the problem, which i doubt it is, theres nothing i can do about it. Maybe take my belt sander or grinder and wear away at the "Cast Aluminum Basket" and the magnet cover until the chrome paint goes away. Then WHAM-O, no more heat! Hehe.
So i guess i should just throw my Bahn sub in the garbage and buy a brand new 12 W7 or a used XXX for a gazillion bucks? (exaggeration)
PROUD
Hmm, i have a question.
When the amp's LPF is set at 40Hz, is it only allowing frequencies above 40Hz, or does it only allow frequencies of 40Hz, none higher.
AND, if i've got the LPF@40Hz and my PTF is 39Hz, then wouldn't it be safe to turn the SS to 20Hz? Because i've noticed it hits a LOT lower with the SS@20Hz or even off.
Thanks for the help.
gearhead on 02/10/2005 12:06:10
"....take my belt sander or grinder and wear away at the "Cast Aluminum Basket""- You may have misunderstood my post. Cast aluminum IS a good heat dissipater.
danielm87 on 02/10/2005 12:35:42
Hehe Ya i know thats why i put "Cast Aluminum Basket" instead of "Chrome". I guess the magnet cover is cast alum. too? If so then chrome is out of the picture.
danielm87 on 02/10/2005 12:40:00
http://audiobahn.com/products/2004Catalog/woofers/woofers.html
Scan through the "Common Features" section on different subs.
You'll notice that the material ranges from spun aluminum to chrome plated 3-dimensional cast aluminium , and on others, such as the AW1206T(mine) it says nothing about CHROME.
gearhead on 02/10/2005 12:47:59
Maybe i should clarify. I'm talking about as-cast aluminum. If cast aluminum has been chrome plated, it loses much of it's heat dissapation ability.
P0werLifter on 02/10/2005 13:05:31
Your LPF should be set higher than 40hz. A low Pass Filter is going to let everything under the set Hz through and filter out everything above the set Hz at a 12dB per octave rolloff (the dB rolloff may vary). You should set the LP higher than 40, id say upwards of 100hz.
As far as the SS filter, Do NOT set it below the PTF. If you set it to 20hz you will damage your woofer because in essence it will go crazy. Below the PTF your woofer can loose control and start going nutz with its excursion and rip the leads off etc etc. (If im not clear enough sry im really tired just woke up).
danielm87 on 02/10/2005 13:38:24
Hey no problem guys, PL, thanks man i've been confused about crossovers for quite some time now.
I think thats been the problem with all my subs, and PL hit the nail right on the head.
whew....sweat off the forehead......
TY
uochronos on 02/10/2005 16:48:54
ya if your LPF was set at 40hz you where hardly playing any bass at all i would imagine
Chronos
danielm87 on 02/10/2005 21:33:26
LOL yeah it hits realllly hard now. In the 40-80Hz range. God geez i'm an idiot.
Before, i wasn't even hearing 70% of the notes in all the music i played, only 40Hz or lower. Now it'll hit nicely all across the spectrum. A lot louder.
AND when i had the LPF at 40Hz, i thought it was hitting really hard. Now its improved like 60%!
Well thanks guys.
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