Hey Guys, Im A Newbie Here So If Uve Already Answered This Please Excuse, Anyways My Car Has 2 Amps , i Have An Alpine V10 Powering My Speakers, Its 4 channels so i have the front and backs hooked up to it--thats working fine. Recently i added a second amp to power my 2 alpine type s subs. it is a 2 channel 800watt mosfet amp. the brand is Audiogods---Ive Never Heard of them before. well i was rolling down the road and my subs stopped working. thinkin it was a fuse i checked it and the fuse is fine but its like my amp has no power. it used to give off a massiev alternator whine making me think that i didnt ground it properly so i grounded the capacitor and that amp in the same spot to minimize ground loop ( the sub amp is the only one connected to capacitor) well now that my amp isnt working im worried it blew due to the improper gound any ideas what may fix it?? is it really dead?? or could i just get a ground block and fix it that way please help as i am sick of lifting my subs in and out of my trunk!!! :
Replies (11)
cplkittle on 01/17/2005 16:56:04
check to see if you are getting power to the amplifier first. If you have power and a positive signal on the remote turn on wire, and a good ground, the problem is probably in the amplifier itself.
UKinstaller on 01/17/2005 17:16:44
i don't think this will help, but when you use a cap, all you do is ground the cap. don't ground both units, use the ground output on the cap for the ground for your amp. if the amp was connected to metal instead, you are feeding more to it and you are putting back out. that could cause a problem.
where are you grounded at?? and what kind of car is it?? also did you check the fuses on the amp??
-UK
ttocs on 01/17/2005 22:58:24
"i don't think this will help, but when you use a cap, all you do is ground the cap. don't ground both units, use the ground output on the cap for the ground for your amp. if the amp was connected to metal instead, you are feeding more to it and you are putting back out. that could cause a problem"
Huh?
swez on 01/18/2005 09:32:13
UK, think we have covered this before.... Ground is ground is ground.
Bali,
There are a few troubleshooting steps that will help you figure out the root cause of the downed bass. It could be a power issue, amp problems or subs are damaged.
1. Test the amp in question to see if it has adequate input voltage
2. Test your subs to insure they are still working properly
3. Make sure you have good audio signal levels into the sub amp
First, need to determine if the sub amp is getting power and working properly. Need to test for input voltage at amp power lugs and insure you still have REM signal to turn it on. To do this, a multimeter is your best tool. Should have a solid 12.0 volts between ground and Pos power terminal on sub amp. If the car is running, the voltage should be somewhat higher. (13.5 -14.4 volts) If not, backtrack to a point where you do find power (the 4 channel amp?) Amps have to have a good body ground (bare metal) and adequate input voltage from electricals, or it will not work. I suggest removing the CAP for this test. Also check the REM lug to ground. Need power here too. This is supplied by the HU. If you don't have that, the amp won't turn on.
Secondly, if the amp seems to power up properly, now we need to check the subs. You can do an easy test with an ohmeter. Just disconnect the sub wires at amp and measure the ohmic value of the subs. Depending on how they are wired, should get a reading between 1-4 ohms. If you get a Zero ohms reading, either the subs are blown or bad wiring connections between amp to subs. (How are the subs wired? Ohmic load?
Finally, have to determine if sub amp is getting a good audio signal at input stage. Most newer Alpine amps have RCA outputs so you can daisy chain the output of the 4 channel amp, to the input side of the sub amp.
BTW: Never heard of that sub amp either. Depending on the specs and ohmic load it is designed to handle, could be your main problem here. Do you know what ohmic value the subs were wired at? Depending on which subs were used and how they were wired to amp, this could be a major factor on how the amp performs or failed.
More details please, (sub wiring, amp specs, power to amp?)
Swez
UKinstaller on 01/18/2005 10:46:28
yeah i didn't know if that would have too much to do with it.
however, if ground is ground is ground, why is it that you must ground an amp with the same gauge power wire you feed to it?? i.e. 4 gauge power, 4 gauge ground?? isn't this in the same ballpark as having a power wire through a capacitor and a ground through regular metal?? just curious.
-UK
ttocs on 01/18/2005 13:36:33
I think swez is saying that it does not matter if you ground the cap and amp together, seperatly, with or without the same wire. It is important that the wires are the correct AWG otherwise that will limit the pwr that they can consume.
superbali on 01/19/2005 20:32:23
P---P.S. MY 4 CHANNEL ALPINE WORKS FINE, MY REMOTE WAS RUNNING FROM THE ALPINE TO THE NEW AMP BASICALLY PIGGY BACKING ON THE OTHER REMOTE. MY SUBS SOUNDED PERFECT BEFORE THIS HAPPEND , I APPRECIATE THE HELP GUYS IM STILL TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT MY HOPE IS FUSE UNDER THE HOOD WENT CUZ THE GROUND WAS POOCHED, DID U GUYS MEAN THAT I HAVE TO GROUND MY NEW AMP TO THE NEGATIVE TERMINAL ON THE CAP THAN FROM THE CAP TO THE METAL FOR GROUND?? THAT SOUNDS GOOD TO ME BUT DOES IT WORK? IM NOT SURE OF SUB SPECS OR AMP SPECS. AMP SAYS MOSFET 600WATTS 2 CHANNEL. AND STILL UNSURE IF THE AMPS GETTING POWER THE SUBS ARE 10 INCH ALPINE TYPE S I THINK THEY MAX AT 300 WATTS EACH :)
swez on 01/19/2005 20:45:53
Agree w/ ttocs... The ground wire needs to be the same gage size as power line to amp. It needs to be same as it is a return route for power that flows to amp from power supply. (ALT/BAT) My EE Prof taught a very basic idea... What goes-in-za, has to have same goes-out-za. Make sense? GRIN
Bali,
A couple of things here...
1. If the main fuse under hood blew, neither amp would work, assuming they are both powered by the same wire via a D-block
2. We still need to determine if sub amp is actually getting power. Check all fuses, wiring and maybe, remove the CAP for now. Need a meter or at minimum, a 12 volt test probe lamp. If there is no power to amp input lug... the amp will not work
3. The Alpine subs mentioned, which ones do you have and how were they wired to the sub amp? (dual or single coil subs? model #???)
4. Was the amp running in 2 channel mode or bridged for MONO output to sub?
5. When posting new info, just go to black box at bottom of the thread and add your new comments. Please... avoid using CAPS as this means "shouting" (or emphasis) and also very hard to read the posted info
More feedback... then we can give you a more accurate picture of what is going on. Have a assumtions already in mind, but need more details (answer the above questions) and we can make an accurate diagnosis.
Swez
swez on 01/19/2005 20:49:10
Would you like to meet me in chat room so we can work through this rapidly?
I'll be there for while and see if you drop in OK?
Swez
superbali on 01/20/2005 21:29:01
ok guys thanx alot for the help i really appreciate it u guys are awesome and maybe u can help me out. last time i tried to install my gear i obviously didnt do it well, my audio gods is pooched toasted gonedy. so im left with my alpine and my speakers thus powered by it. im buying a not so good brand amp since im low on cash its a 1000 watt 2 channel 2ohm yadda yadda im getting it off ebay since i cant afford any real brand names. this one is a blitz brand name or something anyways, being the do it yourselfer that i am i dont want to pay for them to install it when i am fully capable myself ;) i just dont wanna screw it up again. i had two power wires running my amps and i know i need one main one super thick connected to a block than plug my 2 amps to the block and connect the grounds to the cap negative and have the cap negative to the metal. what, other than a block should i get ?? i have fuse for under the hood and all speaker and rca wiring and remote wire and one question if my alpine has black 10 gauge wire do i need thicker master wire? or can i run that to block and just hook the two up to it there once again thanx alot sorry i missed u swez add me on msn ??? superbali@hotmail.com ty
superbali on 01/20/2005 21:35:15
Hey guys my new amp is this im pretty sure u wont be too impressed but u think for now it will give to those subs, the guys at the install say 2 ohm is what i need or something
SOUNDSTORM F500.2 1000 WATT AMP 2 CH 2 Ohm --NEW--MAX WATTS/CH
AT 2 OHMS. 500W x 2
RMS WATTS/CH
AT 4 OHMS 200W x 2
BRIDGED POWER
AT 4 OHMS 1000W x 1
S/N RATIO 102dB
LOW PASS
CROSSOVER
CONTINUOUSLY
VARIABLE 40Hz ~ 150Hz
HIGH PASS
CROSSOVER 200Hz
BASS BOOST 0~+18dB
REMOTE SUBWOOFER
LEVEL CONTROL YES
FREQUENCY RESPONSE
(+/-3dB) 20Hz~50KHz
THD @ RMS OUTPUT 0.01%
CHANNEL SEPARATION 90dB
DAMPING FACTO 125+
FUSE VALUES 20A x 2
DIMENSIONS
(11" W x 2 1/2"H x …) 13-5/8"L
TRI-MODE
OPERATION YES
INPUT LEVEL
ADJUSTMENT YES TRIMODE OPERATION
WITH REMOTE SUBWOOFER CONTROL
LOW PASS CROSS OVER (VARIABLE 40 Hz - 150Hz)
HIGH PASS CROSS OVER
0 - +18dB BASS BOOST(VARIABLE)
INPUT LEVEL ADJUSTMENT
LINE AND SPEAKER LEVEL INPUTS
SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO 102dB
THD@RMS OUTPUT 0.01%
FREQUENCY RESPONSE 9Hz - 50Hz (+/- 3 dB)
CHANNEL SEPERATION 90 dB
DAMPING FACTOR 125+
Replies (11)
cplkittle on 01/17/2005 16:56:04
check to see if you are getting power to the amplifier first. If you have power and a positive signal on the remote turn on wire, and a good ground, the problem is probably in the amplifier itself.
UKinstaller on 01/17/2005 17:16:44
i don't think this will help, but when you use a cap, all you do is ground the cap. don't ground both units, use the ground output on the cap for the ground for your amp. if the amp was connected to metal instead, you are feeding more to it and you are putting back out. that could cause a problem.
where are you grounded at?? and what kind of car is it?? also did you check the fuses on the amp??
-UK
ttocs on 01/17/2005 22:58:24
"i don't think this will help, but when you use a cap, all you do is ground the cap. don't ground both units, use the ground output on the cap for the ground for your amp. if the amp was connected to metal instead, you are feeding more to it and you are putting back out. that could cause a problem"
Huh?
swez on 01/18/2005 09:32:13
UK, think we have covered this before.... Ground is ground is ground.
Bali,
There are a few troubleshooting steps that will help you figure out the root cause of the downed bass. It could be a power issue, amp problems or subs are damaged.
1. Test the amp in question to see if it has adequate input voltage
2. Test your subs to insure they are still working properly
3. Make sure you have good audio signal levels into the sub amp
First, need to determine if the sub amp is getting power and working properly. Need to test for input voltage at amp power lugs and insure you still have REM signal to turn it on. To do this, a multimeter is your best tool. Should have a solid 12.0 volts between ground and Pos power terminal on sub amp. If the car is running, the voltage should be somewhat higher. (13.5 -14.4 volts) If not, backtrack to a point where you do find power (the 4 channel amp?) Amps have to have a good body ground (bare metal) and adequate input voltage from electricals, or it will not work. I suggest removing the CAP for this test. Also check the REM lug to ground. Need power here too. This is supplied by the HU. If you don't have that, the amp won't turn on.
Secondly, if the amp seems to power up properly, now we need to check the subs. You can do an easy test with an ohmeter. Just disconnect the sub wires at amp and measure the ohmic value of the subs. Depending on how they are wired, should get a reading between 1-4 ohms. If you get a Zero ohms reading, either the subs are blown or bad wiring connections between amp to subs. (How are the subs wired? Ohmic load?
Finally, have to determine if sub amp is getting a good audio signal at input stage. Most newer Alpine amps have RCA outputs so you can daisy chain the output of the 4 channel amp, to the input side of the sub amp.
BTW: Never heard of that sub amp either. Depending on the specs and ohmic load it is designed to handle, could be your main problem here. Do you know what ohmic value the subs were wired at? Depending on which subs were used and how they were wired to amp, this could be a major factor on how the amp performs or failed.
More details please, (sub wiring, amp specs, power to amp?)
Swez
UKinstaller on 01/18/2005 10:46:28
yeah i didn't know if that would have too much to do with it.
however, if ground is ground is ground, why is it that you must ground an amp with the same gauge power wire you feed to it?? i.e. 4 gauge power, 4 gauge ground?? isn't this in the same ballpark as having a power wire through a capacitor and a ground through regular metal?? just curious.
-UK
ttocs on 01/18/2005 13:36:33
I think swez is saying that it does not matter if you ground the cap and amp together, seperatly, with or without the same wire. It is important that the wires are the correct AWG otherwise that will limit the pwr that they can consume.
superbali on 01/19/2005 20:32:23
P---P.S. MY 4 CHANNEL ALPINE WORKS FINE, MY REMOTE WAS RUNNING FROM THE ALPINE TO THE NEW AMP BASICALLY PIGGY BACKING ON THE OTHER REMOTE. MY SUBS SOUNDED PERFECT BEFORE THIS HAPPEND , I APPRECIATE THE HELP GUYS IM STILL TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT MY HOPE IS FUSE UNDER THE HOOD WENT CUZ THE GROUND WAS POOCHED, DID U GUYS MEAN THAT I HAVE TO GROUND MY NEW AMP TO THE NEGATIVE TERMINAL ON THE CAP THAN FROM THE CAP TO THE METAL FOR GROUND?? THAT SOUNDS GOOD TO ME BUT DOES IT WORK? IM NOT SURE OF SUB SPECS OR AMP SPECS. AMP SAYS MOSFET 600WATTS 2 CHANNEL. AND STILL UNSURE IF THE AMPS GETTING POWER THE SUBS ARE 10 INCH ALPINE TYPE S I THINK THEY MAX AT 300 WATTS EACH :)
swez on 01/19/2005 20:45:53
Agree w/ ttocs... The ground wire needs to be the same gage size as power line to amp. It needs to be same as it is a return route for power that flows to amp from power supply. (ALT/BAT) My EE Prof taught a very basic idea... What goes-in-za, has to have same goes-out-za. Make sense? GRIN
Bali,
A couple of things here...
1. If the main fuse under hood blew, neither amp would work, assuming they are both powered by the same wire via a D-block
2. We still need to determine if sub amp is actually getting power. Check all fuses, wiring and maybe, remove the CAP for now. Need a meter or at minimum, a 12 volt test probe lamp. If there is no power to amp input lug... the amp will not work
3. The Alpine subs mentioned, which ones do you have and how were they wired to the sub amp? (dual or single coil subs? model #???)
4. Was the amp running in 2 channel mode or bridged for MONO output to sub?
5. When posting new info, just go to black box at bottom of the thread and add your new comments. Please... avoid using CAPS as this means "shouting" (or emphasis) and also very hard to read the posted info
More feedback... then we can give you a more accurate picture of what is going on. Have a assumtions already in mind, but need more details (answer the above questions) and we can make an accurate diagnosis.
Swez
swez on 01/19/2005 20:49:10
Would you like to meet me in chat room so we can work through this rapidly?
I'll be there for while and see if you drop in OK?
Swez
superbali on 01/20/2005 21:29:01
ok guys thanx alot for the help i really appreciate it u guys are awesome and maybe u can help me out. last time i tried to install my gear i obviously didnt do it well, my audio gods is pooched toasted gonedy. so im left with my alpine and my speakers thus powered by it. im buying a not so good brand amp since im low on cash its a 1000 watt 2 channel 2ohm yadda yadda im getting it off ebay since i cant afford any real brand names. this one is a blitz brand name or something anyways, being the do it yourselfer that i am i dont want to pay for them to install it when i am fully capable myself ;) i just dont wanna screw it up again. i had two power wires running my amps and i know i need one main one super thick connected to a block than plug my 2 amps to the block and connect the grounds to the cap negative and have the cap negative to the metal. what, other than a block should i get ?? i have fuse for under the hood and all speaker and rca wiring and remote wire and one question if my alpine has black 10 gauge wire do i need thicker master wire? or can i run that to block and just hook the two up to it there once again thanx alot sorry i missed u swez add me on msn ??? superbali@hotmail.com ty
superbali on 01/20/2005 21:35:15
Hey guys my new amp is this im pretty sure u wont be too impressed but u think for now it will give to those subs, the guys at the install say 2 ohm is what i need or something
SOUNDSTORM F500.2 1000 WATT AMP 2 CH 2 Ohm --NEW--MAX WATTS/CH
AT 2 OHMS. 500W x 2
RMS WATTS/CH
AT 4 OHMS 200W x 2
BRIDGED POWER
AT 4 OHMS 1000W x 1
S/N RATIO 102dB
LOW PASS
CROSSOVER
CONTINUOUSLY
VARIABLE 40Hz ~ 150Hz
HIGH PASS
CROSSOVER 200Hz
BASS BOOST 0~+18dB
REMOTE SUBWOOFER
LEVEL CONTROL YES
FREQUENCY RESPONSE
(+/-3dB) 20Hz~50KHz
THD @ RMS OUTPUT 0.01%
CHANNEL SEPARATION 90dB
DAMPING FACTO 125+
FUSE VALUES 20A x 2
DIMENSIONS
(11" W x 2 1/2"H x …) 13-5/8"L
TRI-MODE
OPERATION YES
INPUT LEVEL
ADJUSTMENT YES TRIMODE OPERATION
WITH REMOTE SUBWOOFER CONTROL
LOW PASS CROSS OVER (VARIABLE 40 Hz - 150Hz)
HIGH PASS CROSS OVER
0 - +18dB BASS BOOST(VARIABLE)
INPUT LEVEL ADJUSTMENT
LINE AND SPEAKER LEVEL INPUTS
SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO 102dB
THD@RMS OUTPUT 0.01%
FREQUENCY RESPONSE 9Hz - 50Hz (+/- 3 dB)
CHANNEL SEPERATION 90 dB
DAMPING FACTOR 125+
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