check this out guys...
http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/headtohead/w7.cfm
Victor...
Replies (17)
P0werLifter on 01/15/2005 23:03:21
Thats not Biased at all, THINK
I'll take the W7 anyday over the 9500. W7 is proven and respected in the audio industry for a reason. I dont agree with the way MTX has attempted to market the 9500 in this situation. I'll have to hear it to believe it.
UKinstaller on 01/16/2005 02:23:26
yeah that is straight garbage. i've heard the 9500. it does bang, but NO sub in my opinion compares to the quality of a W7. i personally think the W7 is the loudest, cleanest sub on the market. there might be louder subs, but they are raw power and don't sound real good, but loud.
jason did i tell you i got a W7??
-UK
swez on 01/16/2005 03:09:13
Agreed! I have yet to see anything from MTX that can compare to a JL (subs, speakers or amps) in pure, clean and loud bass/full range performance.
Yeah, the side by side comparisons in that link appear to make the MTX 9500 series superior to a JL sub.... but to me, it's like comparing apples to lemons.
Don't get me wrong... MTX has a few pretty decent products. But, when compared to JL audio gear... not even on the same planet. That's my humble opinion and others seem to agree.
Swez
P0werLifter on 01/16/2005 04:14:58
No you sure didnt UK!!! Hows it sound? Ported? Sealed? How many ^ft? Im thinking about buying a 8w7 to replace my koda or just for giggles haha. How much power you got running to that bad boy?
I finally got my 15" RE XXX installed. MAN it sounds so clean and loud. I really love it. at 38hz i hit 141dB which isnt to shabby for a single sub with 1600watts lol.
Give me the scoop on your install =)
-Jason
Descent on 01/16/2005 17:16:19
Kinda off topic, but I have a 12w6v2, and it sounds amazing :D
UKinstaller on 01/16/2005 20:59:39
oh yes. i got a 10 inch W7.
as far as setup, i have yet to do anything with it just yet because i had planned on putting 2 type R 12's in the bmw. however, i traded my Pioneer AVIC-N1 (that i got for $800 BRAND NEW) for an Alpine IVA-D300 and a W7 10. i had originally wanted to get the IVA-D300 over the AVIC, but i couldn't pass up the deal on it. now i have the alpine and a W7 for $800. anyway, i want to put the W7 in the bmw and put my type R's in the rodeo.
i ordered a JL500.1 a couple days ago, should be here later in the week. i am going to do my first real custom job on the bmw and use the 500 and the W7. i will be asking you a LOT of questions about the box because i have never built anything but sealed boxes and this one will be ported.
man 141dB with one sub is amazing. props to you. what do you have pushing it??
oh yeah i heard my first ID Maxx the other day. not bad at all. how does that compare with a RE XXX??
-UK
MrBrownstone on 01/17/2005 00:17:42
I don't think anyone buys the 9500 for it's sound quality. Same with Digital Designs 9500. It's designed for an SPL application, and that's it. It handles a ton of power, and really isn't concerned about gentle variances in a string quartet.
As to which is better, 90% of this game (if you forget) is installation, and 10% is product. Why argue over the least significant part of this issue? Either woofer will perform similarly in the same application.
What most folks have is brand pride. Just like folks that insist that Chevy is Better than Ford, or vice versa. Even though we all know they are similarly unreliable, inefficient products; it's the owner's pride. The Corvette and the 'tang are undeniably fast and decent value. The rest of their product lines are pale in comparison to just about any import out there.
See what I'm getting at? When talking PERFORMANCE, the old Camaro & Mustang were neck & Neck...and neither was much better for more than one model year. Same here.
Right now, there are about 50 brands of car speakers, but only 8 manufacturers. Basically, everybody uses the SAME parts, built at the SAME place.
Even if the Mfr is unique, the speaker has not been improved on much in the past 30 years for SQ. POWER handling has drastically improved, but for no audible purpose. Simply, for the rattle & hum.
I would say if the top pros use either product, they'd get similar performance. You would as well. Price and performance of these pieces are so similar, you'd never know it. When competing in SPL comps, Xmax and CONTROL are also a factor.
If I were anyone, I wouldn't put money on either Chevy or Ford--MTX and JL Audio.
P0werLifter on 01/17/2005 01:16:40
Awww no way can you pass up that deal for the HU and w7 GRIN
The 500watts should be perfect for the w7 to feed off of and sound really clean and loud.
As for my current set up. Ive got a PowerAcoustik 3000db amplifier pushin 1600watts @ 1ohm to my XXX but im upgrading to an orion 2500d here very soon (you wouldnt put 87octane in a Porshe would you? Me either!!!)) Enclosure is 8.5cuFt after all displacments are factored in GRIN.
Now on to your future enclosure...Im assuming you want it to be setup for more SQL than SPL correct? If thats the case id reccomend tuning low 20-30hz. How much space are you working with here? Do you want a Slot Port or a Circle Port? (The more Surface area on the port the better).
Anywho, Personally I havnt heard the ID MAX but ive heard great things about them. I know guys that swear by them. Personally I consider the XXX of a high end SQL woofer like the w7. It retails in stores for a 12 around $500+ and for a 15 its $600+.. If your lucky and dont have a retailer in your area you can get it directly from factory for lower costs but you still have the pay the hefty shipping.
Do you by chance have Yahoo or AIM? If you dont we can chat by e mail, Msg me on the "ClubMail"
-Jason
only_tuning on 01/27/2005 18:36:02
so can you tell me Mr.Brownstone if you don't mind what are the 8 manufacturers plzz .. (GRIN)
danielm87 on 01/27/2005 21:41:09
While giving my 2 cents on this subject, i'm gonna give it to yall straight up: JL Audio is better than MTX. That web page is simply a failing attempt to make one sub look better than another. MTX uses ever-so-unimportant statistics to TRY and make their 9500 look better. Now i'm not gonna lie to you, i'd rather have an Audiobahn sub, they have never failed me and i love Bahn, but in all reality, for Christ sakes, JL's W7 can't really be beat for their power range and price range. I'd have to hear it to beleive it also
Mr. B, i can tell you this right now, Chevy trucks rule. They look better, have bigger engines, last longer, are easier to find parts for, more popular, an' I LIKE EM! Ford Blows.
PL, mann, 141Db with 1600watts to a XXX.....NICE.....an 8.5cf enclosure! hah! i was tickled to death to be able to get a 3.2cf box in my truck! what are you driving, a Hurst, or an Excursion??
< Daniel >
UKinstaller on 01/27/2005 22:10:53
i hate pretty much all american cars. it sucks, though, because they are SO much easier to work on as far as car audio goes than foreign. that sucks.
-UK
uochronos on 01/27/2005 22:29:10
chevy, ford, toyota, mazda, nissan, mercury, honda, etc...
very few forgien or demestic are better then the other.. i know a guy who swears his ford ranger is better then a mazda truck...... well they re the same exact trucks just differnt names on them..
ford and chevy are almost identical as well i'm a ford guy but come how much differnce is there hehe...
just my 2 cents.
Chronos
swez on 01/28/2005 09:32:30
After driving many GM, Ford & Chrysler products over the years, I'll take a Ricer like Honda, Toyota or Nissan anyday.
Also, I do ~90% of all repairs on my own. Changing plugs on most American cars are a real pain in knuckles. My ex-g/f's truck...1993
S-10 Blazer (4.3L V-6) was the worst POS I ever worked on. The only way to get the rear spark plugs out, were through the wheel wells. (two on the driver's side, one on the passenger side) The only thing good about that truck, pretty good amount of room to work under the hood on top half of the engine.
Now, her truck looks like a rust bucket. Rides like a tank, 2nd engine, eats brakes and MPG is horrible. (~18 MPG Highway, 13 MPG city) When we split up, I lost 2 major headaches... her and her truck! It's so nice to be free! Life is so much more calm these days... LOL
Swez
P0werLifter on 01/28/2005 13:59:30
Many Chevy Haters in this bunch eh? I for one love chevy's but im not die hard chevy fan or anything i just prefer their product over fords mainly for the bodystyles.
I personally drive a 95 chevy extended cab and boy i love it. Being 6'4 315lbs ill take all the room i can get, not only that but i still have room for my setup in the cab with no cringe on my space. So the truck has 1750000 miles on it and still runs like a champ.
For me...its either Chevy or Toyota. I owned 3 Toyotas in the past when I use to be big time rockcrawling/4wheeling and they'll go anywhere and never break down. Very dependable and well priced.
danielm87 on 01/28/2005 14:15:48
I'm with you 90% of the way there PL, i have an 87 Chevy pickup with 223,000 on it and it runs like a new Lexus. The 70s, 80s, and 90's model ford pickups are hideous if you ask any sane truck person from the south, Chevys look bada** either 2WD lowered with rims or 4WD raised with boggers. Fords just cant compete where i live.
Those little 4-banger toyotas, i have to admit you really can tell the difference rock crawling and boggin, they are lean and barely mean, but they last long and get the job done. Cant say much for their looks or their power, the engine in my chevy is exactly twice the displacement and size as the engines in the little ole toyotas.
If you dont like Chevys, you're either 1.- Not from Tennessee, 2.- Not from Kentucky, 3. - not cool.
Thats my 3 cents.
< Daniel >
uochronos on 01/28/2005 16:32:00
alot of it is to do with how you take care of it is what you meant... my buddy drives his honda accord '88 hard. gone threw 2 engines and a tranny and a couple other parts... the car itself is great but he doesnt know how to take car of it... i had a 84 thunderbird and it never had a single issue because i took good care of it.
i agree that most hondas' nissans, and toyotas have better gas millage and what not. and hell toyotas are pretty bullet proof in general... but i think it has alot more to do with how you take care of it... btw alot of these v6 engines in the toyotas and hondas make them just asw hard to work on as the truck swez mentioned... i'm right there with you though swez on that my buddy had an identical truck lol horrible design..
in general though i have seen horribly designed hondas, VW, fords, chevies, mopars, etc. no one car company makes a bad car. i currently have a 1971 mustang with the original 351 cleveland after 30years and a ton of miles the engine still runs lol.. and my current 2003 ranger 4 liter is the best small truck i have ever driven.
i well end this rant now hehe... but just saying thats its more personal preferance and how well you take care of it that decides if a car braks down or not.... of course there is the model here or there that is just bug ridden. i lovy chevy, ford and toyota myself but have worked on many a crappy car by them all...
Chronos
PS
anyone who thinks toyota never made a crappy car... alls i have to say is Corona and no i dont mean beer..
swez on 01/28/2005 16:50:31
Hummm, this post has taken a real twist huh? Well, am not from TN or KY... but I do feel pretty cool. (down right chilly in fact)
Living in MI, the winter's can be brutal. In all the years of driving, I have noted that GM makes a pretty solid drive train. The engines have good power, strong tranny and can make it well over 150,000 miles with regular maint.
The weakest part of their line up, seems to be the suspension system on these terrible, horrible, no good, very bad roads!
It is very easy to wear out a front end (tie rods, ball joints, steering gear linkages and struts) in less than 75,000 miles. We have 2 main seasons, here in the upper Midwest... Winter and road construction.
When I traveled a lot for biz, other states had superior roads as compared to MI. OH, IN, MO, WI, IL, MN and most states 500 miles south of Detroit were much better to drive on. Even in Canada, the roads in the far northern reaches of the US boarders were very nice to drive on.
I guess my real beef is not with Chevy or Ford per-se. Both have some very solid products. That includes trucks and cars. It's probably more to do with our roadways here. They patch holes in concrete with a cold patch tar. The water gets into the patch, freezes and pushes out the patch. Then the plows come along, pull out the patch and now we get a larger road divot.
You can tell where they (potholes) are, by the number of cars pulled to the side of the road, changing a blow out or have damaged front end suspensions. Ain't that fun, changing a tire in sub-freezing temps and wind chills below 0.
Maybe.... it's time to move out of MI. Love the summers and beautiful Fall we get... but Winter and early Spring, are the pits.
End Rant!
Swez
http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/headtohead/w7.cfm
Victor...
Replies (17)
P0werLifter on 01/15/2005 23:03:21
Thats not Biased at all, THINK
I'll take the W7 anyday over the 9500. W7 is proven and respected in the audio industry for a reason. I dont agree with the way MTX has attempted to market the 9500 in this situation. I'll have to hear it to believe it.
UKinstaller on 01/16/2005 02:23:26
yeah that is straight garbage. i've heard the 9500. it does bang, but NO sub in my opinion compares to the quality of a W7. i personally think the W7 is the loudest, cleanest sub on the market. there might be louder subs, but they are raw power and don't sound real good, but loud.
jason did i tell you i got a W7??
-UK
swez on 01/16/2005 03:09:13
Agreed! I have yet to see anything from MTX that can compare to a JL (subs, speakers or amps) in pure, clean and loud bass/full range performance.
Yeah, the side by side comparisons in that link appear to make the MTX 9500 series superior to a JL sub.... but to me, it's like comparing apples to lemons.
Don't get me wrong... MTX has a few pretty decent products. But, when compared to JL audio gear... not even on the same planet. That's my humble opinion and others seem to agree.
Swez
P0werLifter on 01/16/2005 04:14:58
No you sure didnt UK!!! Hows it sound? Ported? Sealed? How many ^ft? Im thinking about buying a 8w7 to replace my koda or just for giggles haha. How much power you got running to that bad boy?
I finally got my 15" RE XXX installed. MAN it sounds so clean and loud. I really love it. at 38hz i hit 141dB which isnt to shabby for a single sub with 1600watts lol.
Give me the scoop on your install =)
-Jason
Descent on 01/16/2005 17:16:19
Kinda off topic, but I have a 12w6v2, and it sounds amazing :D
UKinstaller on 01/16/2005 20:59:39
oh yes. i got a 10 inch W7.
as far as setup, i have yet to do anything with it just yet because i had planned on putting 2 type R 12's in the bmw. however, i traded my Pioneer AVIC-N1 (that i got for $800 BRAND NEW) for an Alpine IVA-D300 and a W7 10. i had originally wanted to get the IVA-D300 over the AVIC, but i couldn't pass up the deal on it. now i have the alpine and a W7 for $800. anyway, i want to put the W7 in the bmw and put my type R's in the rodeo.
i ordered a JL500.1 a couple days ago, should be here later in the week. i am going to do my first real custom job on the bmw and use the 500 and the W7. i will be asking you a LOT of questions about the box because i have never built anything but sealed boxes and this one will be ported.
man 141dB with one sub is amazing. props to you. what do you have pushing it??
oh yeah i heard my first ID Maxx the other day. not bad at all. how does that compare with a RE XXX??
-UK
MrBrownstone on 01/17/2005 00:17:42
I don't think anyone buys the 9500 for it's sound quality. Same with Digital Designs 9500. It's designed for an SPL application, and that's it. It handles a ton of power, and really isn't concerned about gentle variances in a string quartet.
As to which is better, 90% of this game (if you forget) is installation, and 10% is product. Why argue over the least significant part of this issue? Either woofer will perform similarly in the same application.
What most folks have is brand pride. Just like folks that insist that Chevy is Better than Ford, or vice versa. Even though we all know they are similarly unreliable, inefficient products; it's the owner's pride. The Corvette and the 'tang are undeniably fast and decent value. The rest of their product lines are pale in comparison to just about any import out there.
See what I'm getting at? When talking PERFORMANCE, the old Camaro & Mustang were neck & Neck...and neither was much better for more than one model year. Same here.
Right now, there are about 50 brands of car speakers, but only 8 manufacturers. Basically, everybody uses the SAME parts, built at the SAME place.
Even if the Mfr is unique, the speaker has not been improved on much in the past 30 years for SQ. POWER handling has drastically improved, but for no audible purpose. Simply, for the rattle & hum.
I would say if the top pros use either product, they'd get similar performance. You would as well. Price and performance of these pieces are so similar, you'd never know it. When competing in SPL comps, Xmax and CONTROL are also a factor.
If I were anyone, I wouldn't put money on either Chevy or Ford--MTX and JL Audio.
P0werLifter on 01/17/2005 01:16:40
Awww no way can you pass up that deal for the HU and w7 GRIN
The 500watts should be perfect for the w7 to feed off of and sound really clean and loud.
As for my current set up. Ive got a PowerAcoustik 3000db amplifier pushin 1600watts @ 1ohm to my XXX but im upgrading to an orion 2500d here very soon (you wouldnt put 87octane in a Porshe would you? Me either!!!)) Enclosure is 8.5cuFt after all displacments are factored in GRIN.
Now on to your future enclosure...Im assuming you want it to be setup for more SQL than SPL correct? If thats the case id reccomend tuning low 20-30hz. How much space are you working with here? Do you want a Slot Port or a Circle Port? (The more Surface area on the port the better).
Anywho, Personally I havnt heard the ID MAX but ive heard great things about them. I know guys that swear by them. Personally I consider the XXX of a high end SQL woofer like the w7. It retails in stores for a 12 around $500+ and for a 15 its $600+.. If your lucky and dont have a retailer in your area you can get it directly from factory for lower costs but you still have the pay the hefty shipping.
Do you by chance have Yahoo or AIM? If you dont we can chat by e mail, Msg me on the "ClubMail"
-Jason
only_tuning on 01/27/2005 18:36:02
so can you tell me Mr.Brownstone if you don't mind what are the 8 manufacturers plzz .. (GRIN)
danielm87 on 01/27/2005 21:41:09
While giving my 2 cents on this subject, i'm gonna give it to yall straight up: JL Audio is better than MTX. That web page is simply a failing attempt to make one sub look better than another. MTX uses ever-so-unimportant statistics to TRY and make their 9500 look better. Now i'm not gonna lie to you, i'd rather have an Audiobahn sub, they have never failed me and i love Bahn, but in all reality, for Christ sakes, JL's W7 can't really be beat for their power range and price range. I'd have to hear it to beleive it also
Mr. B, i can tell you this right now, Chevy trucks rule. They look better, have bigger engines, last longer, are easier to find parts for, more popular, an' I LIKE EM! Ford Blows.
PL, mann, 141Db with 1600watts to a XXX.....NICE.....an 8.5cf enclosure! hah! i was tickled to death to be able to get a 3.2cf box in my truck! what are you driving, a Hurst, or an Excursion??
< Daniel >
UKinstaller on 01/27/2005 22:10:53
i hate pretty much all american cars. it sucks, though, because they are SO much easier to work on as far as car audio goes than foreign. that sucks.
-UK
uochronos on 01/27/2005 22:29:10
chevy, ford, toyota, mazda, nissan, mercury, honda, etc...
very few forgien or demestic are better then the other.. i know a guy who swears his ford ranger is better then a mazda truck...... well they re the same exact trucks just differnt names on them..
ford and chevy are almost identical as well i'm a ford guy but come how much differnce is there hehe...
just my 2 cents.
Chronos
swez on 01/28/2005 09:32:30
After driving many GM, Ford & Chrysler products over the years, I'll take a Ricer like Honda, Toyota or Nissan anyday.
Also, I do ~90% of all repairs on my own. Changing plugs on most American cars are a real pain in knuckles. My ex-g/f's truck...1993
S-10 Blazer (4.3L V-6) was the worst POS I ever worked on. The only way to get the rear spark plugs out, were through the wheel wells. (two on the driver's side, one on the passenger side) The only thing good about that truck, pretty good amount of room to work under the hood on top half of the engine.
Now, her truck looks like a rust bucket. Rides like a tank, 2nd engine, eats brakes and MPG is horrible. (~18 MPG Highway, 13 MPG city) When we split up, I lost 2 major headaches... her and her truck! It's so nice to be free! Life is so much more calm these days... LOL
Swez
P0werLifter on 01/28/2005 13:59:30
Many Chevy Haters in this bunch eh? I for one love chevy's but im not die hard chevy fan or anything i just prefer their product over fords mainly for the bodystyles.
I personally drive a 95 chevy extended cab and boy i love it. Being 6'4 315lbs ill take all the room i can get, not only that but i still have room for my setup in the cab with no cringe on my space. So the truck has 1750000 miles on it and still runs like a champ.
For me...its either Chevy or Toyota. I owned 3 Toyotas in the past when I use to be big time rockcrawling/4wheeling and they'll go anywhere and never break down. Very dependable and well priced.
danielm87 on 01/28/2005 14:15:48
I'm with you 90% of the way there PL, i have an 87 Chevy pickup with 223,000 on it and it runs like a new Lexus. The 70s, 80s, and 90's model ford pickups are hideous if you ask any sane truck person from the south, Chevys look bada** either 2WD lowered with rims or 4WD raised with boggers. Fords just cant compete where i live.
Those little 4-banger toyotas, i have to admit you really can tell the difference rock crawling and boggin, they are lean and barely mean, but they last long and get the job done. Cant say much for their looks or their power, the engine in my chevy is exactly twice the displacement and size as the engines in the little ole toyotas.
If you dont like Chevys, you're either 1.- Not from Tennessee, 2.- Not from Kentucky, 3. - not cool.
Thats my 3 cents.
< Daniel >
uochronos on 01/28/2005 16:32:00
alot of it is to do with how you take care of it is what you meant... my buddy drives his honda accord '88 hard. gone threw 2 engines and a tranny and a couple other parts... the car itself is great but he doesnt know how to take car of it... i had a 84 thunderbird and it never had a single issue because i took good care of it.
i agree that most hondas' nissans, and toyotas have better gas millage and what not. and hell toyotas are pretty bullet proof in general... but i think it has alot more to do with how you take care of it... btw alot of these v6 engines in the toyotas and hondas make them just asw hard to work on as the truck swez mentioned... i'm right there with you though swez on that my buddy had an identical truck lol horrible design..
in general though i have seen horribly designed hondas, VW, fords, chevies, mopars, etc. no one car company makes a bad car. i currently have a 1971 mustang with the original 351 cleveland after 30years and a ton of miles the engine still runs lol.. and my current 2003 ranger 4 liter is the best small truck i have ever driven.
i well end this rant now hehe... but just saying thats its more personal preferance and how well you take care of it that decides if a car braks down or not.... of course there is the model here or there that is just bug ridden. i lovy chevy, ford and toyota myself but have worked on many a crappy car by them all...
Chronos
PS
anyone who thinks toyota never made a crappy car... alls i have to say is Corona and no i dont mean beer..
swez on 01/28/2005 16:50:31
Hummm, this post has taken a real twist huh? Well, am not from TN or KY... but I do feel pretty cool. (down right chilly in fact)
Living in MI, the winter's can be brutal. In all the years of driving, I have noted that GM makes a pretty solid drive train. The engines have good power, strong tranny and can make it well over 150,000 miles with regular maint.
The weakest part of their line up, seems to be the suspension system on these terrible, horrible, no good, very bad roads!
It is very easy to wear out a front end (tie rods, ball joints, steering gear linkages and struts) in less than 75,000 miles. We have 2 main seasons, here in the upper Midwest... Winter and road construction.
When I traveled a lot for biz, other states had superior roads as compared to MI. OH, IN, MO, WI, IL, MN and most states 500 miles south of Detroit were much better to drive on. Even in Canada, the roads in the far northern reaches of the US boarders were very nice to drive on.
I guess my real beef is not with Chevy or Ford per-se. Both have some very solid products. That includes trucks and cars. It's probably more to do with our roadways here. They patch holes in concrete with a cold patch tar. The water gets into the patch, freezes and pushes out the patch. Then the plows come along, pull out the patch and now we get a larger road divot.
You can tell where they (potholes) are, by the number of cars pulled to the side of the road, changing a blow out or have damaged front end suspensions. Ain't that fun, changing a tire in sub-freezing temps and wind chills below 0.
Maybe.... it's time to move out of MI. Love the summers and beautiful Fall we get... but Winter and early Spring, are the pits.
End Rant!
Swez
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