I’ve had my system in for a while now and have been playing around with the settings. But I just can’t seem to find something I really like. Here’s the list
96 Mazda B-3000
Pioneer DEH-P7600MP
Audio Control EQS
Infinity Ref 6800cs /front
Infinity Ref 6802cf / rear
Infinity Perfect 10D VQ
MTX 4405 w/sub control
Audiobahn ACAP7Q /1 farad
This is kind of a stealth install. All of the speakers are mounted in factory location with the sub behind the driver seat in the jump seat location. My sub level control is mounted to my driver seat adjustment bar.
Currently I have the EQS HU levels at the half way mark, EQ to the sub is pretty level, the rear speakers have the low mid/bass and some highs cut, and the fronts are level with a slight + on the high mids to even out the cab. I adjust the sub to fit each CD.
What I like to find out is how you guys would set up the system.
Replies (14)
uochronos on 12/21/2004 01:33:11
the EQS should have come with specific tuning directions to get the most out of it,. if not then get them from there web site audiocontrol.com
as for the rest swez wrote a good tuturial here
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t3
thats mainly for sub tuning but it gives you a good idea of how to start and work your way to what you like..
hope this helps
Chronos
CSR on 12/21/2004 02:41:05
To give you a little background on myself, I’ve been a Bass player and recording engineer for more then a few years now.
I’d more like to hear how you guys would set up the sound stage.
I’ve tried an even level between front and rear. Now I’m working on setting the rear level for more of an ambiance. Tweaking the bass level is easy to match the given song or CD.
I followed the instructions that came with the EQS and found that I could peg the input and line voltage and the system still sounded good. I know I’ll be playing around with the settings for along time to come, but I just wanted to hear how you guys would set-up the sound stage.
swez on 12/21/2004 12:35:04
Similar backgrounds here bub... bass player, dabbled in mixing and now car audio.
The same process used in setting up a studio, live club mix or a large venue concert. Needs some special tools though.
1. Pink noise generator
2. Spectrum Analyzer w/ calibrated mike)
3. EQ and or DSP
Cars can have awful resonances and reflections too. This really makes for a difficult mix. But, with care and attention to detail, can get better than average results.
Process:
A. Set HU tone controls and filters to flat
B. Set HU volume to ~50% (less if clipping already)
C. Set amp for front stage first, HPF @ ~80 Hz., and gain set to highest input signal (4 volts?)
D. Turn on the EQ and all sliders set to flat (no cut; no boost) If there is a line driver (signal booster) set to midpoint or ~4volts.
E. Turn on the P/N generator and observe Spectrum plots
F. With EQ, cut the high level bands, boost the low level bands until you get a pretty flat line above 80 Hz.
G. Set amp gains to a reasonable level, (before clipping) note the settings and bring down the HU to reasonable listening levels (~80 dB)
Repeat the same process with rear stage speakers on HPF settings and gain. Leave the EQ rest a while. You already have the main stage covered. get back to reference level test settings (~80 dB)
Now, we blend front and rear stages together. The Pink noise and Spectrum Analyzer are back in action. We are looking for the flattest bars on the SA. May have to tweak the MB bumps out (from the rear speakers) with EQ or adjusting rear gain. If you have 6x9's back there, may consider HPF setting near 60 Hz. Again, work at reference level SPL. (above 80dB, we loose hearing accuity)
Got a reasonably flat line on the SA? If yes, now... we add sub(s) and
get the 35-80 Hz., bands up to reference levels. If no, either too much bass or too little gain settings.
OK, now we blend and are reasonable flat on the SA? Good... better than good!
Pop in your favorites CD's and just listen at reasonable volumes. If you seem to lack highs, use the HU tone controls a little. If you lack lows, kick up the bass knob on the HU a few clicks. If the reverse is true... too much Bass or highs, use the HU controls to make it sound right to you.
Once you have done all this monkeying around, turn it up to figure out where enough is too much.
1. Open the doors
2. Set volume to loud (it's OK once in a while)
3. Step to the back of the car ~10-15 feet and just listen for clean highs, crisp mids, solid MB (no sub here)
4. Adjust amp gains until all is loud, but clean
5. Now add bass to taste
Alrighty than... that should get ya jamming. Just remember that each CD cut has it's own unique sound. Some will sound dull and lifeless if older studio re-master'd cuts. New CD music can be very in your face. Just learn to adjust HU tone controls to compensate. Leave EQ and gain setting as was calibrated to flat.
Hope that helps,
Swez
BTW, my fee is $50.00 for this detailed topic... LoL SMILE
CSR on 12/21/2004 13:52:18
I’ve got a great SA in my DAW.G (Digital Audio Workstation / Gizmo, I don’t like DAW when you say it, Dah) and I can borrow a killer RTA for a local studio. My plan is to tweak the system for a while, till I’m happy with it and then test to see how I did against the machines.
My gains on the amp are a few clicks up, like 2 or 3 on a amp. The system sounds as good with the gain pegged, but it’s just a little cleaner with the gain set lower.
Swen,
A few question, you would set the front and rears to HPF. Both of the sets sound good either way. But I do agree that the rears should be set to HPF.
You said to do the final tweaking on the HU and not the EQ (4th to last paragraph), why adjust the HU and not the EQ? The HU have limited adjustments. Out of the 5 factory pre sets I use the flat, natural, and vocal for quick adjustments. The custom setting was fine tuned without the sub.
I’ve done each set of speaker by ear very similar to what you suggested with the SA and will repeat that process when I test the system, but the open door test is a new one to me thanks for the info.
But how would you set levels from front to rear, it kinda sounds like you would set then to an equal level. From you description, it sounds like you would set them to true flat and not tweak for an ambiance effect.
As far as testing and calibrating a system, I’m pretty familiar with the set-up. But what I’m looking for is tips or tricks on setting up the sound stage.
By the way, the last line… Priceless…
Cliff
swez on 12/21/2004 18:31:02
Well, am glad we are on the same page... that's cool!
The EQS helps to flatten out cabin acoustics. Our goal is to hear the music as recorded, without too much ill effects from the listening environent. That why I suggested HPF for both front and rear, doing each stage. (independently)
The front stage is the primary stage. The rear is more or less "ambient fill". You can make the rear stage full range or MB only. (a preference on your part) Also, about balancing F&R stages, that too, is up to your tastes. Some like 60/40, others like 75/25 and still others prefer a 50/50 mix of SPL. (F&R stages) You have plenty of latitude here.
I see both F&R speaker sets are 5x7/6x8 ovals. One is a Comp set, the other is coaxial. The specs say they can go down to 49 Hz. However, they need not be pushed that low as the sub will handle the bass below 80 Hz via it's LPF setting. You can pull the F&R speakers down to ~60 Hz if you like. More MB this way to warm up the overall sound in the system. The SA will tell you when you have reached a flat response (no sub in mix yet) via the EQS.
Note: The lower the F&R speakers are asked to reproduce, the better your chances of clipping the amps at moderate SPL levels. That's why we normally suggest an HPF setting of ~ 80 Hz.
Finally, the open the doors trick is a good one to detect excessive distortion and clipping of amps. You cannot hear that so well inside the car at high SPL levels. (above ~90-95dB) This technique allows us to hear how well the SQ level is and if the amps are clipping to a major degree at higher SPL levels. This step really helps set the overall gain thresholds for the amps to avoid excessive clipping...
Good luck!
Swez
PS I suggested the HU tone controls only to tweak weak or heavy tracks to sound more pleasing to you. The EQS sets the system in general, to a flat response with SA & PN generator. If you change the EQS settings after calibration, can do... but now, the system is no longer flat. That's why I suggested the HU tone settings for minor adjustments.
CSR on 12/22/2004 04:16:01
I’ll admit it’s been seven+ years since the last major install that I’ve done. And as many of you know things have changed a bit in that time. But something’s are still the same.
Well Swen, so far you’ve covered the best way to set-up as system with a SA, but you still haven’t told me how you’ve set-up your own system. I’d take it that you’ve got your system set to true flat. I know that’s a studio term, but I’m sure most of the guys will understand it. What is the level between your front and rear?
Any of you other guys want to chime in and tell how you’ve got your systems set-up?
Victor on 12/22/2004 04:51:11
i had a car which i sold it to a friend of mine .. it was a hatchback one of my first few cheap cars....after 1 year he still uses the same audio system i had built.. he listens to a lot of indian as well as western classical music.. that does no mean this system does not bump.. it sure does ..
all it has is a front stage.( surprised ) .. it has got alpine 2-waycomponents in the doors.. 4" kenwood coaxials in the dash( with bass blockers).. and a sony 6ohms midbass crossed at 50-100hz ( originally a part of my home system).
a set of tweeters in the rear with 2 4th order bandpass 12" subs ( both 250wrms pioneer premier )..28Hz tuned
and this came out to be a very successful staging and imaging experiment. i doubted the sound quality in the rear but against my expectations there is a very very minor degradation in the sound stage when listening from the rear.. and the tweeters give a satisfactory ambience fill..( atleast to me ).
but a lot of experimentation with placement of the mids and highs was done before the installation.. and lots of tweaking was done to flatten up the sound without using those technical instruments...
spent like days in the car just trying to get the sound right . since i did not want to use rear speakers of any sort i had to work a lot to provide quality sound to my family riding with me in the back seat.
so basically this car has a 90%-10% front-rear ratio.. my present car has a 60%-40%...
Victor..
swez on 12/22/2004 09:27:45
At the moment, I do not have any system installed in my current vehicle. However, when I get a better ride, I have a few toys to drop in. This Buick I drive now, is more or less a winter car... beater. The dash is a nightmare to take apart and the doors... they are a pain too.
However, I have been working on my garage shop system for a while. It sounds pretty decent to me and others that drop by... sit there slack jawed as I flip on some Pink Floyd and dim the lights.
That system consists of:
Crown 150 Preamp
Generic 12 band EQ
Generic HU (Mini boom box w/CD, AM/FM and tape)
Main front stage: Polk 7a Studio monitors (6' off ground, down firing)
Rear stage: Generic 2-way mounted in rafters, 12' back
Amp: Yamaha Pro monitor P-2050 (~70 RMS @ 4 ohms)
Subs: A pair of Sound Stream SPL 10's in sealed box (1.5 cf/chamber)
Sub amp: Peavey Pro CS-800 (400 RMS/channel @ 4 ohms)
As for EQing, most of the sliders are flat. A few dB bump above 2.5Khz and a few dB bump 60-300 Hz. The EQ is only used on mids/highs. The Subs are LPF @ 100 Hz.
As for F->R fade ratios... by placing the seats where the sweet spot is, (about 8' from mains) I get a nice blend. Without an SPL meter, I can only estimate the sweet spot ratio is about 60/40. Get some nice psycho-acoustic effects on some Floyd cuts, as they use a lot of studio panning on some tracks.
Anyway, most of my tuning is by ear these days. My brother has an RTA and all the test gear needed... but they are rack mounted and not easy to transport. He does a lot of Live Sound gigs and needs all those tools for a quality mix. I often go out on bigger jobs to help set up the system. Our last big job was an Ice hockey rink for the Michigan Republican election campaign. One of the toughest venues to mix as there was so much ambient reverberations in such a large venue. (~2,500 attendees?)
Anyway, I still have a lot to learn about audio. Am no self-proclaimed expert... but I have been involved with music in many forms, since the late 60's. Am always learning new things. The new tools out there, are very complex, but very effective.
Swez
PS A "flat" setting on your system is only a starting point. This brings the listening environment as close to a "reference baseline" as possible. Sure, you can tweak the EQ to your own preferences on each cut you listen too. I do... but if the EQ is not in reach as you drive or listen, the HU controls can help.
CSR on 12/23/2004 00:42:27
Thanks Victor, it nice to get different points of view. My truck started out as a deck powered 4-speaker system. I knew I was going to keep the truck for a while so when the 4 speakers didn't cut it. In went the sub and 5-channel.
Swen,
It sounds like we have a lot in common; I started playing in the early 60's. I've done just about everything you could do in rock, roadie, FOH, studio grunt, engineer, and studio owner. Car audio is just a part time hobby for me, but I love clean tunes. If you want to check out my bass page
www.csr69.com/bass
Thanks guys
swez on 12/23/2004 18:27:25
Sweet system... I used Ampeg's SVT and a Rick 4001 Stereo Bass guitar way back when. Had the 10's for punch midbass and added a pair of 15's for deep bass.
That's quite an investment you have made in gear over the years. If you have been playing since the early 60's, must be the oldest guy on this board.... I'm 49... and just a pup!
Swez
CSR on 12/23/2004 22:17:58
I just started younger then other, my sister had a flat top and I start to play that. But my mom use to tell stories of me at 3 putting rubber bands on her frying pans. Your 2 years older then me, so your still pops on the board. But I'm closure then anyone else I'll guess.
swez on 12/24/2004 08:08:49
Hummm, come to think of it, got my first dose of music in junior high in 1966 or so. Started out on the French Horn and my twin brother went with a Trombone. We made a lotta noise the first 2 years together, then got guitars in 68 or so. Played through HS in marching band, Jazz band, Concert Band and Big Band through 1974.
We started our first Rock band in 72. Dale played guitar, I switched to bass. Our Band Director introduced us to "Frigid Pink" in 73 and we wrote lead sheets for their music. (a Rocker re-make of House of the Rising Sun) and some other cuts for their singles. Played many HS gigs in 73-74 too. It was a fun time and kept us out of trouble too. No drugs or alcohol in this group. We managed to stay clean cut kids while many were druggin and drinkin by then.
Well, my Old Man Audio title remains in tact than. Happy birthday ol fella... nice to have a few old codgers on the board that can relate to our genre. Boy, am I glad you dropped in!
Merry Christmas,
Dave (Swez)
CSR on 12/27/2004 20:01:43
Well when you talk about the old days, we do have some major differences. I got my first taste of the lime light at 5, played 2 songs on the tenor (4-string) banjo and 3 songs on mandolin.
My first instrument was a drum set, but I’d still play my sister flat top just to tick her off since I could out play her. Then I went to the bass, spent a few too many years on the guitar and now I’m what I should have been the whole time. God made me a bass player and that’s what I am. I started playing in bands in grade school and still enjoy playing on stage most of the time. At 17 I started playing in clubs and taverns and since I was playing with older guys, they took it for granted I was of age, times where different back then. Well the young guys talk about parting like a rock star, I partied with rock stars. I lived the life and paid the price. I’m 13 years clean and trying to be sober.
Thanks for the kudos on the gear, but that’s just part of my collection on the web site. As I like to say I have more then I need, but a he!! of a lot less then I want. Where most of the guys around here have their money in cars and sound systems, mines in vintage guitars.
Cliff
swez on 12/27/2004 22:26:23
Definitely a good saga here on your behalf. The vintage guitars are worth a lot to the right person and go up in values as they age. Cars on the otherhand, depreciate rapidly with age and miles. Good investment strategy on your part Cliff.
Good luck with your projects and please feel free to interject your experience as you see fit. It's good to hear a positive success story!
Swez
PS Am glad to hear your honesty on staying clean and aiming for sobriety now as well. As a fellow traveler on that road, look for the answers that lead us to this path of destruction. If we can weed out some of the root causes, the rest will fall into place with time and effort. I too, had a wilder side to deal with, as I am getting older. The fast life is often a bandaid to cover deep wounds from an earlier time in our lives. Sure, it's easy to be "comfortably numb" to the inner drivers that we run from. But, they always come back again, until we face them head on and admit we need support to break free.
Am not trying to be preachy or condeming here. I have been facing my own demons for a few years now. Slowly, but methodically, they are fading into the background. Feels good to cleaning out the closets and dealing with deeper issues. There are no magic bullits for this process. Just a lot of hard work and caring friends to bring us up to a higher standard in life. Hang in there pal... we're pulling for ya!
96 Mazda B-3000
Pioneer DEH-P7600MP
Audio Control EQS
Infinity Ref 6800cs /front
Infinity Ref 6802cf / rear
Infinity Perfect 10D VQ
MTX 4405 w/sub control
Audiobahn ACAP7Q /1 farad
This is kind of a stealth install. All of the speakers are mounted in factory location with the sub behind the driver seat in the jump seat location. My sub level control is mounted to my driver seat adjustment bar.
Currently I have the EQS HU levels at the half way mark, EQ to the sub is pretty level, the rear speakers have the low mid/bass and some highs cut, and the fronts are level with a slight + on the high mids to even out the cab. I adjust the sub to fit each CD.
What I like to find out is how you guys would set up the system.
Replies (14)
uochronos on 12/21/2004 01:33:11
the EQS should have come with specific tuning directions to get the most out of it,. if not then get them from there web site audiocontrol.com
as for the rest swez wrote a good tuturial here
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t3
thats mainly for sub tuning but it gives you a good idea of how to start and work your way to what you like..
hope this helps
Chronos
CSR on 12/21/2004 02:41:05
To give you a little background on myself, I’ve been a Bass player and recording engineer for more then a few years now.
I’d more like to hear how you guys would set up the sound stage.
I’ve tried an even level between front and rear. Now I’m working on setting the rear level for more of an ambiance. Tweaking the bass level is easy to match the given song or CD.
I followed the instructions that came with the EQS and found that I could peg the input and line voltage and the system still sounded good. I know I’ll be playing around with the settings for along time to come, but I just wanted to hear how you guys would set-up the sound stage.
swez on 12/21/2004 12:35:04
Similar backgrounds here bub... bass player, dabbled in mixing and now car audio.
The same process used in setting up a studio, live club mix or a large venue concert. Needs some special tools though.
1. Pink noise generator
2. Spectrum Analyzer w/ calibrated mike)
3. EQ and or DSP
Cars can have awful resonances and reflections too. This really makes for a difficult mix. But, with care and attention to detail, can get better than average results.
Process:
A. Set HU tone controls and filters to flat
B. Set HU volume to ~50% (less if clipping already)
C. Set amp for front stage first, HPF @ ~80 Hz., and gain set to highest input signal (4 volts?)
D. Turn on the EQ and all sliders set to flat (no cut; no boost) If there is a line driver (signal booster) set to midpoint or ~4volts.
E. Turn on the P/N generator and observe Spectrum plots
F. With EQ, cut the high level bands, boost the low level bands until you get a pretty flat line above 80 Hz.
G. Set amp gains to a reasonable level, (before clipping) note the settings and bring down the HU to reasonable listening levels (~80 dB)
Repeat the same process with rear stage speakers on HPF settings and gain. Leave the EQ rest a while. You already have the main stage covered. get back to reference level test settings (~80 dB)
Now, we blend front and rear stages together. The Pink noise and Spectrum Analyzer are back in action. We are looking for the flattest bars on the SA. May have to tweak the MB bumps out (from the rear speakers) with EQ or adjusting rear gain. If you have 6x9's back there, may consider HPF setting near 60 Hz. Again, work at reference level SPL. (above 80dB, we loose hearing accuity)
Got a reasonably flat line on the SA? If yes, now... we add sub(s) and
get the 35-80 Hz., bands up to reference levels. If no, either too much bass or too little gain settings.
OK, now we blend and are reasonable flat on the SA? Good... better than good!
Pop in your favorites CD's and just listen at reasonable volumes. If you seem to lack highs, use the HU tone controls a little. If you lack lows, kick up the bass knob on the HU a few clicks. If the reverse is true... too much Bass or highs, use the HU controls to make it sound right to you.
Once you have done all this monkeying around, turn it up to figure out where enough is too much.
1. Open the doors
2. Set volume to loud (it's OK once in a while)
3. Step to the back of the car ~10-15 feet and just listen for clean highs, crisp mids, solid MB (no sub here)
4. Adjust amp gains until all is loud, but clean
5. Now add bass to taste
Alrighty than... that should get ya jamming. Just remember that each CD cut has it's own unique sound. Some will sound dull and lifeless if older studio re-master'd cuts. New CD music can be very in your face. Just learn to adjust HU tone controls to compensate. Leave EQ and gain setting as was calibrated to flat.
Hope that helps,
Swez
BTW, my fee is $50.00 for this detailed topic... LoL SMILE
CSR on 12/21/2004 13:52:18
I’ve got a great SA in my DAW.G (Digital Audio Workstation / Gizmo, I don’t like DAW when you say it, Dah) and I can borrow a killer RTA for a local studio. My plan is to tweak the system for a while, till I’m happy with it and then test to see how I did against the machines.
My gains on the amp are a few clicks up, like 2 or 3 on a amp. The system sounds as good with the gain pegged, but it’s just a little cleaner with the gain set lower.
Swen,
A few question, you would set the front and rears to HPF. Both of the sets sound good either way. But I do agree that the rears should be set to HPF.
You said to do the final tweaking on the HU and not the EQ (4th to last paragraph), why adjust the HU and not the EQ? The HU have limited adjustments. Out of the 5 factory pre sets I use the flat, natural, and vocal for quick adjustments. The custom setting was fine tuned without the sub.
I’ve done each set of speaker by ear very similar to what you suggested with the SA and will repeat that process when I test the system, but the open door test is a new one to me thanks for the info.
But how would you set levels from front to rear, it kinda sounds like you would set then to an equal level. From you description, it sounds like you would set them to true flat and not tweak for an ambiance effect.
As far as testing and calibrating a system, I’m pretty familiar with the set-up. But what I’m looking for is tips or tricks on setting up the sound stage.
By the way, the last line… Priceless…
Cliff
swez on 12/21/2004 18:31:02
Well, am glad we are on the same page... that's cool!
The EQS helps to flatten out cabin acoustics. Our goal is to hear the music as recorded, without too much ill effects from the listening environent. That why I suggested HPF for both front and rear, doing each stage. (independently)
The front stage is the primary stage. The rear is more or less "ambient fill". You can make the rear stage full range or MB only. (a preference on your part) Also, about balancing F&R stages, that too, is up to your tastes. Some like 60/40, others like 75/25 and still others prefer a 50/50 mix of SPL. (F&R stages) You have plenty of latitude here.
I see both F&R speaker sets are 5x7/6x8 ovals. One is a Comp set, the other is coaxial. The specs say they can go down to 49 Hz. However, they need not be pushed that low as the sub will handle the bass below 80 Hz via it's LPF setting. You can pull the F&R speakers down to ~60 Hz if you like. More MB this way to warm up the overall sound in the system. The SA will tell you when you have reached a flat response (no sub in mix yet) via the EQS.
Note: The lower the F&R speakers are asked to reproduce, the better your chances of clipping the amps at moderate SPL levels. That's why we normally suggest an HPF setting of ~ 80 Hz.
Finally, the open the doors trick is a good one to detect excessive distortion and clipping of amps. You cannot hear that so well inside the car at high SPL levels. (above ~90-95dB) This technique allows us to hear how well the SQ level is and if the amps are clipping to a major degree at higher SPL levels. This step really helps set the overall gain thresholds for the amps to avoid excessive clipping...
Good luck!
Swez
PS I suggested the HU tone controls only to tweak weak or heavy tracks to sound more pleasing to you. The EQS sets the system in general, to a flat response with SA & PN generator. If you change the EQS settings after calibration, can do... but now, the system is no longer flat. That's why I suggested the HU tone settings for minor adjustments.
CSR on 12/22/2004 04:16:01
I’ll admit it’s been seven+ years since the last major install that I’ve done. And as many of you know things have changed a bit in that time. But something’s are still the same.
Well Swen, so far you’ve covered the best way to set-up as system with a SA, but you still haven’t told me how you’ve set-up your own system. I’d take it that you’ve got your system set to true flat. I know that’s a studio term, but I’m sure most of the guys will understand it. What is the level between your front and rear?
Any of you other guys want to chime in and tell how you’ve got your systems set-up?
Victor on 12/22/2004 04:51:11
i had a car which i sold it to a friend of mine .. it was a hatchback one of my first few cheap cars....after 1 year he still uses the same audio system i had built.. he listens to a lot of indian as well as western classical music.. that does no mean this system does not bump.. it sure does ..
all it has is a front stage.( surprised ) .. it has got alpine 2-waycomponents in the doors.. 4" kenwood coaxials in the dash( with bass blockers).. and a sony 6ohms midbass crossed at 50-100hz ( originally a part of my home system).
a set of tweeters in the rear with 2 4th order bandpass 12" subs ( both 250wrms pioneer premier )..28Hz tuned
and this came out to be a very successful staging and imaging experiment. i doubted the sound quality in the rear but against my expectations there is a very very minor degradation in the sound stage when listening from the rear.. and the tweeters give a satisfactory ambience fill..( atleast to me ).
but a lot of experimentation with placement of the mids and highs was done before the installation.. and lots of tweaking was done to flatten up the sound without using those technical instruments...
spent like days in the car just trying to get the sound right . since i did not want to use rear speakers of any sort i had to work a lot to provide quality sound to my family riding with me in the back seat.
so basically this car has a 90%-10% front-rear ratio.. my present car has a 60%-40%...
Victor..
swez on 12/22/2004 09:27:45
At the moment, I do not have any system installed in my current vehicle. However, when I get a better ride, I have a few toys to drop in. This Buick I drive now, is more or less a winter car... beater. The dash is a nightmare to take apart and the doors... they are a pain too.
However, I have been working on my garage shop system for a while. It sounds pretty decent to me and others that drop by... sit there slack jawed as I flip on some Pink Floyd and dim the lights.
That system consists of:
Crown 150 Preamp
Generic 12 band EQ
Generic HU (Mini boom box w/CD, AM/FM and tape)
Main front stage: Polk 7a Studio monitors (6' off ground, down firing)
Rear stage: Generic 2-way mounted in rafters, 12' back
Amp: Yamaha Pro monitor P-2050 (~70 RMS @ 4 ohms)
Subs: A pair of Sound Stream SPL 10's in sealed box (1.5 cf/chamber)
Sub amp: Peavey Pro CS-800 (400 RMS/channel @ 4 ohms)
As for EQing, most of the sliders are flat. A few dB bump above 2.5Khz and a few dB bump 60-300 Hz. The EQ is only used on mids/highs. The Subs are LPF @ 100 Hz.
As for F->R fade ratios... by placing the seats where the sweet spot is, (about 8' from mains) I get a nice blend. Without an SPL meter, I can only estimate the sweet spot ratio is about 60/40. Get some nice psycho-acoustic effects on some Floyd cuts, as they use a lot of studio panning on some tracks.
Anyway, most of my tuning is by ear these days. My brother has an RTA and all the test gear needed... but they are rack mounted and not easy to transport. He does a lot of Live Sound gigs and needs all those tools for a quality mix. I often go out on bigger jobs to help set up the system. Our last big job was an Ice hockey rink for the Michigan Republican election campaign. One of the toughest venues to mix as there was so much ambient reverberations in such a large venue. (~2,500 attendees?)
Anyway, I still have a lot to learn about audio. Am no self-proclaimed expert... but I have been involved with music in many forms, since the late 60's. Am always learning new things. The new tools out there, are very complex, but very effective.
Swez
PS A "flat" setting on your system is only a starting point. This brings the listening environment as close to a "reference baseline" as possible. Sure, you can tweak the EQ to your own preferences on each cut you listen too. I do... but if the EQ is not in reach as you drive or listen, the HU controls can help.
CSR on 12/23/2004 00:42:27
Thanks Victor, it nice to get different points of view. My truck started out as a deck powered 4-speaker system. I knew I was going to keep the truck for a while so when the 4 speakers didn't cut it. In went the sub and 5-channel.
Swen,
It sounds like we have a lot in common; I started playing in the early 60's. I've done just about everything you could do in rock, roadie, FOH, studio grunt, engineer, and studio owner. Car audio is just a part time hobby for me, but I love clean tunes. If you want to check out my bass page
www.csr69.com/bass
Thanks guys
swez on 12/23/2004 18:27:25
Sweet system... I used Ampeg's SVT and a Rick 4001 Stereo Bass guitar way back when. Had the 10's for punch midbass and added a pair of 15's for deep bass.
That's quite an investment you have made in gear over the years. If you have been playing since the early 60's, must be the oldest guy on this board.... I'm 49... and just a pup!
Swez
CSR on 12/23/2004 22:17:58
I just started younger then other, my sister had a flat top and I start to play that. But my mom use to tell stories of me at 3 putting rubber bands on her frying pans. Your 2 years older then me, so your still pops on the board. But I'm closure then anyone else I'll guess.
swez on 12/24/2004 08:08:49
Hummm, come to think of it, got my first dose of music in junior high in 1966 or so. Started out on the French Horn and my twin brother went with a Trombone. We made a lotta noise the first 2 years together, then got guitars in 68 or so. Played through HS in marching band, Jazz band, Concert Band and Big Band through 1974.
We started our first Rock band in 72. Dale played guitar, I switched to bass. Our Band Director introduced us to "Frigid Pink" in 73 and we wrote lead sheets for their music. (a Rocker re-make of House of the Rising Sun) and some other cuts for their singles. Played many HS gigs in 73-74 too. It was a fun time and kept us out of trouble too. No drugs or alcohol in this group. We managed to stay clean cut kids while many were druggin and drinkin by then.
Well, my Old Man Audio title remains in tact than. Happy birthday ol fella... nice to have a few old codgers on the board that can relate to our genre. Boy, am I glad you dropped in!
Merry Christmas,
Dave (Swez)
CSR on 12/27/2004 20:01:43
Well when you talk about the old days, we do have some major differences. I got my first taste of the lime light at 5, played 2 songs on the tenor (4-string) banjo and 3 songs on mandolin.
My first instrument was a drum set, but I’d still play my sister flat top just to tick her off since I could out play her. Then I went to the bass, spent a few too many years on the guitar and now I’m what I should have been the whole time. God made me a bass player and that’s what I am. I started playing in bands in grade school and still enjoy playing on stage most of the time. At 17 I started playing in clubs and taverns and since I was playing with older guys, they took it for granted I was of age, times where different back then. Well the young guys talk about parting like a rock star, I partied with rock stars. I lived the life and paid the price. I’m 13 years clean and trying to be sober.
Thanks for the kudos on the gear, but that’s just part of my collection on the web site. As I like to say I have more then I need, but a he!! of a lot less then I want. Where most of the guys around here have their money in cars and sound systems, mines in vintage guitars.
Cliff
swez on 12/27/2004 22:26:23
Definitely a good saga here on your behalf. The vintage guitars are worth a lot to the right person and go up in values as they age. Cars on the otherhand, depreciate rapidly with age and miles. Good investment strategy on your part Cliff.
Good luck with your projects and please feel free to interject your experience as you see fit. It's good to hear a positive success story!
Swez
PS Am glad to hear your honesty on staying clean and aiming for sobriety now as well. As a fellow traveler on that road, look for the answers that lead us to this path of destruction. If we can weed out some of the root causes, the rest will fall into place with time and effort. I too, had a wilder side to deal with, as I am getting older. The fast life is often a bandaid to cover deep wounds from an earlier time in our lives. Sure, it's easy to be "comfortably numb" to the inner drivers that we run from. But, they always come back again, until we face them head on and admit we need support to break free.
Am not trying to be preachy or condeming here. I have been facing my own demons for a few years now. Slowly, but methodically, they are fading into the background. Feels good to cleaning out the closets and dealing with deeper issues. There are no magic bullits for this process. Just a lot of hard work and caring friends to bring us up to a higher standard in life. Hang in there pal... we're pulling for ya!
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