upgrading alternator wire

by UKinstaller
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what's up fellas,

any comments on upgrading the alternator to battery wire in my BMW?? the battery is in the trunk in my car, therefore there is a long wire from the alternator to the battery. i have three amps waiting to be installed, which all together will be pulling about 90 - 100 amps. would anyone suggest upgrading the wire to say 1/0 or 2 gauge or something?? i have an optima yellow top in there already. i don't know very much about this subject, but i know having such a long wire probably isn't great, so i figured upgrading it might help out.

any suggestions??

-UK


Replies (18)
uochronos on 12/15/2004 18:12:00
i upgraded my alternator wire my negtiove terminal wire and my engine to frame straps all when i upgraded alternator and batery i went to 2gauge wire. although for such a long run 1/0 guage may be better if you can do it without a ton of hassle.

Chronos

UKinstaller on 12/15/2004 19:25:41
any noticeable difference??

-UK


swez on 12/15/2004 20:38:48
This Optima BAT in the trunk, is it the only BAT in your car now or is it a 2nd BAT for amps only?

Either way, a large gage wire is a very good idea on longer line runs and heavy current flow. Hiding it may be challenging, but make sure you fuse that line.

Swez

UKinstaller on 12/15/2004 21:58:32
it's the only battery. also, i was actually thinking about CAREFULLY running it under the car, because you have probably seen the trim panels and so forth on a bimmer, they are ridiculously thin.

would running it under be a bad idea?? i have had to do that on large amp/sub applications in cars such as mustangs, where you just can't hide the wire, so running it under with protection around it has worked for that. any suggestions??

-UK

uochronos on 12/16/2004 05:01:29
well i have 2 guage running to my amps which can pull over 100-150amps together and whats the point of running 2gauge to the amps when the alternator is 4gauge to battery? going to starve the amp anyway... basuicaly if your going to be pulling alot of power you really need to upgrade batter to alt and batery to ground and engine block straps. its really the cheapest upgrade why skimp there?

if you run it under the car be extremly carefull. what if it catches on something? also it well be exposed to the elements and might end up geting a nick or something threw the insulation. i would suggest if you do it that way to get some sort of flexible tube to run it threw to help protect it. and secure it ever 6 inches or so to make sure it never hangs down and gets caught on something.... albeit i have a truck but the other day i was driving down a road and didnt see a branch laying into the road the tire caught it and it got lodged up around my drive line... wasnt a big deal but had there been a wire hanging in there it could haev easily ripped it loose and caused a real mess.

Chronos

swez on 12/16/2004 09:33:06
There is a product I have used for AC wiring installs. It has moisture proof PVC jacketing and a wire inner conduit. It is flexible to a degree and this would off very good protection to the wire inside. It comes with sealed end caps to keep out moisture and debris too. The fittings will also act as connectors and gromets into metal surfaces in your car.

Can get this at any length you want at Home Depot or any good electrical supply house. Not cheap... but it will work if you hang it tight against the body pan or inner frame of the vehicle. Can use conduit clamps and self-tapping sheet metal screws or wire ties with a screw hole mount to anchor everything in.

The main thing, avoid exhaust, gas lines and mechanical moving parts as you route the conduit.

It looks like this, but can buy in bulk off a large spool and add fittings to give a good finished look:

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_
main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=NAVIGATION&pos=n31&MID=
9876&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&CNTKEY
=calculators%2findex.jsp

Bulk looks like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_
main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=NAVIGATION&pos=n31&MID
=9876&com.
broadvision.session.new=
Yes&CNTKEY=calculators%2findex.jsp

Finally, it comes in 1/2 & 3/4" ID. Use the one that allows the wire to be pulled through with some effort for a tight, rattle free fit. Seal up ends when finished with silicone, to prevent moisture gettin into the conduit.

Swez


UKinstaller on 12/16/2004 09:58:49
very nice mr. swez. i'll definitely have to look into that. as i mentioned earlier, i have run wire under cars before, but only when necessary and always with conduit. however, in this case, i'd like to be even more careful. a faulty wire to my amps under the car at worst would blow up my amps/subs whatever. a faulty alternator wire could cause some REAL problems. thanks for the input guys. finals SUCK!! i just got finished taking one.

-UK

swez on 12/16/2004 10:24:04
Hope you passed your finals!

Yep, finals do suck. Have to cram 12-16 weeks of learning into a 2 hour test. Grueling task to have all that recall. The sad thing is, after we complete our schooling, most of the stuff we toiled over and spent large sums of money on... will go dormant. Rarely to used again.

What good is an expensive load of head knowledge, if we have very little hands on, practical knowledge to go with it? Personally, I loved the labs and hands on stuff. Text book history and theory left me cold and bored. But the most interesting things I studied, I now apply to this board and I love it!... it's been 25 years out of college now, and finally getting to use some of that very outdated material. Go figure....

Swez

UKinstaller on 12/16/2004 10:42:48
yeah this test was in accounting, the most boring class the world has ever offered. tonite i have an economics test and i am finished for the semester!!

the holiday hours at circuit city are screaming my name. it's remote start season, so i'll be seeing a LOT of those. i expect to work 60 - 70 hours the week after christmas, which is a lot for me. i usually work 22-28. oh well i can mess with my car a lot up there too.

-UK

Crum on 12/16/2004 12:00:09
Well, good luck with school UK. Hopefully you'll be taking time out to watch your game this weekend against Louiville. I'm a Gator and they took it to us last week - I'd love to see you guys exact some SEC revenge.

Accounting does suck. First time I took it, I had to drop it. The teacher would talk about assets, liabilities, long and short term debt, . . . and in my mind they were just saying "money" no big deal. Then I took the first test. Ouch. Second time I took the class, I decided it wouldn't kick my butt twice and got a B. I can't say that it's a class that I use all the time, but it does help you grasp the way a business operates and the way money flows. I work as a construction manager now, and a lot of the same principles and formats are used to project costs.

I guess what I'm saying is you'll never know when the information will come in handy - when you own your own business, you'll want to be able to look at the books, talk the language, and see if your accountant is ripping you off. Or maybe you'll be like Swez, but on some Economics board 25 years from now!

UKinstaller on 12/16/2004 12:17:41
yeah whatever i major in i'm probably gonna either try to get my own car stereo / home theatre shop, or get into traveling sales. i just want to get a degree and get out.

i hope UK destroys Louisville. They have beat us two years in a row, and i don't think i can handle a third. the problem is, they're playing in Freedom Hall (Louisville), which is a pretty hostile environment. the rivalry here is so incredibly huge it's ridiculous, like florida versus FSU in football. UK fans and Louisville fans absolutely despise each other. it's kinda cool i guess. i actually do car stereos and alarms for several of the basketball players. i get awesome tickets to the home games from them. they're nice guys, and they've definitely got the talent to go all the way this year once they work out a few kinks.

a little off topic but pleasnt nonetheless.

-UK

oh yeah and i will NEVER be on economics board LOL. but yeah i might use some accounting someday who knows.

swez on 12/16/2004 19:00:14
If you become a Busines Manager or financial analysist, these classes will be invaluable. Knowing how the P&L sheets work, profit projectioins and cost controls, all come into play then.

Swez

PS I know I would hate Accounting.... not my bag! I'll take Engineering anyday.

uochronos on 12/16/2004 19:05:52
hehe ya i wish i had taken some of those classes... i work in grocery and acounting and buisness skills are invaluble if you want to climb the ladder so to speak...

Chronos

PS
not the funnest part of the job margins, and inventory and what not but if you can do that kind of stuff that makes any employer more likly to choose you.

UKinstaller on 12/16/2004 19:15:30
well to be honest with you guys i really think me having my own shop is a definite possibility. my mom's family owns a whole lot of real-estate in louisville in very busy areas, and a couple shopping centers. they have a couple garages, so i really wouldn't have too much trouble finding a place for very cheap rent. i have had serious talks to my uncle's (they run the business) about them being investors and so forth for the company, and i have two guys that said if they are still working in car audio whenever i get it going they would come in a heartbeat. i figure with good investors, a busy area with little competition close-by, and two or three real good installers, i just might have something cooking.

comments?? opinions??

i have to go take my last final and then i'm done for the semester!!

-UK

swez on 12/16/2004 19:47:27
It's a good dream and if you planned it well... (a solid business plan) it might fly! The hard part, is accessing the market you are going into. This market has been declining for a few years. Less kids are getting large bass system due to local noise pollution laws. That's where the low budget shops can prosper.

However, high-end audio salons that do alarms, remote starters and advanced AV system installs, may be a good primary niche for that area. Again, it's all about demographics. Who is the likely client and how much $$$ will they part with. That will determine inventory on hand... (if you don't have it on hand, might not get the job)

Then, there is vendor negotiations. What brands will you carry that sell for reasonable profit margins. Most high end vendors want a big order up front to get best column prices and profits. Having several high end brands to sell, will attract the elite crowd. However, it is also good to mix "B" & "C" (cheaper lines) for kids who just want a lot of bang for a few bucks.

As you noted, a few skilled installers are a must. Decent profits here, if the installers get a combination of low hourly rate and install perks. A few top notch sales types (commission/draw or hourly) can really boost your business and referals. Then, an administrator to handle invoices, purchasing, inventory control, payroll and maybe warrantee issues too, with vendors.

Need a building with a few install bays, a show room and inventory storage. That means a leased/ purchased building, alarm systems, insure inventory and a great display/Demo system that Salesmen understand well as they demo products.

That's a good overview of what it takes to launch a new biz in this field. There's more... but these are the basics. Think it over hard, get some numbers together and then be prepared to make your pitch to potential investors. Yes, you can start small and build up if there is a solid market to support your biz.

Swez

PS I have worked for a medium size car audio shop, small computer shop and several large corporations as well. I have done purchasing and vendor relationship building as well. But my primary skills are sales related. I do understand a bit on how large and small businesses operate.

The bottom line is enough profits to hire good people. (and keep them) For a store manager, it's not a 9-5 job. It takes a lot of effort to build a solid reputation for great service, competitive prices and bring in lots of new clients. (marketing) Then of coarse, you have to give a reasonable return to the investors. (figure 6-10% annually)

Think it through carefully. If you do go this route...HIRE THE BEST PEOPLE POSSIBLE !!!. Folks who are motivated, knowledgable in several areas of your biz and not afraid of a lot of hard work in the beginning. As your biz prospers, share that with employees who have gone the extra mile for you. (bonuses)



UKinstaller on 12/16/2004 22:27:05
well said. that gives me a lot to think about. i know i'm only 19 (i'm turning 20 tomorrow) but i have talked to my family members about this since i got in the field a few years ago. only recently have we talked seriously.

the good thing is that my family owns property in two very busy areas of louisville. the east end, where the 16 year old punks are driving around brand new mercedes and lexuses that daddy bought for them and get ridiculous AV systems for their cars.

the other area is the south end, which is a lower to middle class area. however, everybody and their moms have sound systems out there. they all love loud loud bass and could care less about quality. this is the area that i work in now. we do $1000 sound systems in $400 cars every single day. they also get alarms and stuff because of the high break-ins.

so my demographics for building a shop are very good. that's the main reason i got serious about owning a place in the first place, because without good demographics, you can't do anything.

i have to get off here now but i will right more later. celebration time...the semester is officially over.

-UK

Crum on 12/17/2004 09:17:45
Cheers UK. The secret to a success is doing what you love. Hire competent others to do the things you don't care for.

Move forward with your plan in your education. Try to apply the theoretical garbage that school throws at you in a real-life situations. It makes some of the driest stuff fun.

For example, learning formulas is tedious and can be forgotten. But knowing Ohm's law and being able to apply to your stereo is pretty cool.

When you start your business, maybe you can advertise in highschool papers (especially on the east side). Draw those kids in to you.

If your profession is like your posts, you'll do fine.

swez on 12/17/2004 09:23:22
Glad this was a useful primer for your planning purposes. Yes, there is a lot to consider as you look into all primary and secondary aspects of opening a biz. The main thing going for you... is having clear vision about what you want to do. Love what you do and can't wait to get into work most days.

Too many people, get locked into dead-end "job" that they hate, but cannot get out because they don't take risks or are too comfortable where they are. If you really want total work satisfaction, be your own boss. A lot of hard work and planning are needed. A high percentage of new business fail in 3-5 years due to poor planning, lack of working capital or a big shift in the marketplace for that product or services.

Congrats on wrapping up your semester. I hope you did well and have established good study habits. This will serve you well both now and later in life.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DUDE! The big 2 - 0 huh? Ol Swez is more your parent age... 49. (this month) I was a late bloomer because I lacked direction and the passion to succeed then. It finally started to click in my mid-20's.

It's a big world out there. Dare to dream big, then plan, then launch your plans! Adjust your goals when needed, but stay on point... the best you can. That will make you a success at anything you put your mind to. (Career, family, friends and even your hobbies)

Swez



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