i have a kenwood 800w amp http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39734&item=5735859155&rd=1 .. i want 2 12's under 200 that will give me sum good bass
Replies (39)
swez on 12/11/2004 18:53:03
OK, that's a 2 channel amp, 150 x 2 WRMS @ 4 ohms per channel. If you bridge the amp MONO, can get almost 500 Wrms @ 4 ohms.
To get the most from this amp, your subs will need to be rated at ~250 Wrms each. You'll need a pair of 4+4 DVC's to wire this amp for maximum efficiency.
Is that $200.00/sub max or no more than $200.00 for both subs?
Swez
b3rto on 12/15/2004 20:55:28
200/sub max ..and i got 2 4way pioneers in the back ( http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2569443&cat=38981&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3947%3A96481%3A38981#long_descr ) and ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58027&item=5737291132&rd=1 ) in the front i want to power up the 2 in the front with the cd player n the 2 in the back with an amp ..wha wuld be the best amp to go with them. and where do i get the 4+4 DVC's ?
swez on 12/15/2004 21:27:08
Most guys here, prefer to amp the best quality front speakers thay can afford. The rear speakers are often run of the HU amps as rear fill only. Then we add subs and an amp.
As for subs with that Kenwood 2 channel, many of us like Alpine SWR-1241D's. They are easy to find for ~ $100.00/ea. off the net.
http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/search__cat_id--11940000,prod_id--7226240.html
Swez
PS When using links to show products, please separate the link from text like I did. Don't use () either... just makes it so much easier to c/p into browsers... Thanks!
b3rto on 12/16/2004 19:43:40
so what am i doing with the 6 1/2's in the front and the back? ..i sold my amp for 100 bucks :/ now im just lookin for subs+amp for like 400 thatll give me a good sound .. sorry that i keep changin things around
swez on 12/16/2004 20:45:12
Avoid changing plans if possible... it's drive the Golds crazy OK?
Yes, we can help you get a great system together and it does not have to be done all at once. Develope an overall plan of what you want, then ask for help.
A solid HU with features that fit your projected needs, is also a big part of designing a good system. Buy a HU with only the features you really need or can use. No need to by a $500.00 HU if you can get the features needed with a $200.00 HU. Features like:
* 2-3 pairs of RCA outs for amping (4 volts output is great)
* Some form of EQ/DSP (very helpful feature)
* Perhaps and AUX input source for add ons later (I-POD, MP3 etc.)
* Maybe HP/LP filtering menu
* Internal amps if you don't plan to amp all speakers (~20 watts RMS/ch)
* Simple face plate (removable... not motorized)
* A decent display you can see at all times
* Remote control features are nice (easy on the HU function buttons)
===================================================
Once you have that in mind, then it's speaker time. The most important part of any great system are quality speakers and adequate power to run them to potential. They need to be reasonable efficient, if you power them off HU amps. (90dB/watt or higher)
Your best speakers and power belong up front. Most decent speakers are NOT super cheap. Coaxial designs will work. Component speaker (2-way) are a bit more $$, but generally offer superior performance when installed properly and have enough power. (the crossovers and better speakers, make all the difference) Yes, coaxials are OK... but they often use cheap crossovers that dergrade performance. If you choose Coaxials, use the kind where the tweeters can be aimed 15-20 degrees upward.
The rear speaker are mostly rear fill and can be powered off a HU or amped, depending on your preferences. Can use Coaxials if you like full range or just Midbass fill in the back. A personal preference here.
====================================================
Amps:
Need to look at power the amps consume VS power they put out. A 50-100 WRMS amp is plenty for most car applications. Can be 2 or 4 channel, depending on your needs. A solid 4 channel with adequate HP/LP filtering can be used for fronts and a sub. This is the cheapest way to go. The rear speakers are run off the HU amps (rear Channels for fade)
If you are considering a strong bass system, a separate amp and 1-2 subs will give you solid bass. The sub and enclosure choices are key. Do you like lots of low, deep bass? Or, tight, punchy bass? That will dictate the subs and enclosure you choose.
Power?
Depends on how much your electrical system can support. Here's a general break down to consider:
100-300 RMS : low 120's dB of bass ( 1 sub ported)
300-600 RMS : high 130's - low 140's dB of bass (1 strong -2 medium subs)
600 -1000 RMS : mid 140's to high 140's dB of bass (1 potent sub, or 2 strong subs
===================================================
OK, lots to consider here. Think it through carefully and figure out what direction you wish to go. Remember, you can do this in stages as $$$ permits... but the plan and goals are what to focus on now. Good planning up front, will net well above average results when you a finished.
Please, don't even think about jumping all over the globe on install options. It just drives us crazy and we (no.. I) will not help you too much, if the plan changes every day or two. Got better things to do right? Respect our skills and willingness to help. Don't abuse it, or you'll be on your own OK?
Thanks,
Swez
Victor on 12/17/2004 05:47:14
lol... swez.. hehehe..
yeah i agree hold on to a well thought plan..
anyways that reply of yours is a great one.. why not copy that write up and post it as an article on CK.. it shall surely guide many in the right direction..
what ya say??
comments...??
Victor...
swez on 12/17/2004 09:01:37
If others agree that it is helpful, sure.. I'll do that.
Swez
b3rto on 12/17/2004 10:36:31
i have a solid HU with 2 pairs rca outs removable EQ .. i want to power the speakers separate from the subs. and i want sum tight bass. i dont know too much about this but if you think powering the rears with the HU and the fronts with amp i'll do that
b3rto on 12/17/2004 12:29:16
is a SONY XPLOD XM-DS1300P5 a good amp to power up pair of 2 12's alpine type R
uochronos on 12/17/2004 17:42:20
Sony amps are not known for being well made or well rated... i have heard many stories about them shorting out after a relativly short time of use. also in general sony amps are far overated output wise.
with that said this aprticular amp is 219$ retail and puts out 400watts at 2ohm at 14.4volts.... you have to figure that most cars only run at 13volts about. so that means it wlel put out a bit less then 400watts more like 370watts RMS ro so. now with that said it still isnt a bad amp for around 200$
however alpine type R 12" subs are rated at 300watts per son. that means 600watts RMS for a pair that would be only giving these subs half the power that they need to operate well at. i would not suggest this amp for 2 alpine type R 12" subs... for one sub this would be a good amp choice.
any questions?
Chronos
swez on 12/17/2004 17:55:00
That amp has decent features and 400 Wrms @ 2 ohms. Really a single Alpine SWR-1241D (4+4 DVC) will handle this amp OK.
Alpine recommends a 0.85 cf enclosure (internal dimensions) as the best all around sealed enclosure size. If you want more punch, drop to a smaller box of 0.7 - 0.75 cf. (internal)
Yes, power the rear speakers with the HU. Should get decent output from them with ~20 Wrms per speaker back there. As for the front speakers... this is your bread & butter part of the speaker system. The better the quality speakers used here, the better the audio system will sound.
Amping them, yes... how much amp? Depends on the speakers you choose and how much RMS power they can handle. (50-75 Wrms per channel should be plenty if you buy somewhat effecient speakers. (~90 dB SPL 1 watt/1 meter)
The Pioneer 3-ways mentioned earlier, are really not good quality or take much power either. (35 watts/ea.) Might want to "invest" in better quality and power handling speakers.
Key Features: Pioneer TS-A1670R
» 3/8" PET silver film dome tweeter
» 1-5/8" balanced dome PPC (Pearl PolyCarbon) midrange
» Aramid fiber reinforced IMPP woofer with durable rubber surround
» designed with shallow basket to accommodate more vehicles
» frequency response 30-28,000 Hz
» recommended power range 2-35 watts RMS
» sensitivity 90 dB
» top-mount depth 1-3/4"
Swez
b3rto on 12/17/2004 23:17:33
ok how about if i take the 2 4ways pioneer that handle bout 50 wrms each and put the 2 3way pioneers in the back n power them with the HU. but what amp do you suggest for the 2 type Rs and and amp for the 2 pioneers. and if you can please find me a site of the enclousure you recommend for the subs. thank you
Victor on 12/18/2004 06:16:40
alpine has the right kinda enclosure design for the 2 12" type R's there are downloadable pdf's with diagrams and specs on their site.. they are ported enclosures..
if you are looking for some kinda innovation or new kinda enclosure i wud be able to help you.. but the alpine suggestion would be easier to make and would give u great results too.. the JBL 600.1 would be a very good amp to power those subs with..
everyone around would agree with that.. for that matter if you go for the 2 ohm DVC version of the type R's i mean the 12 you can go for the sony 1600p5..
Victor...
Victor on 12/18/2004 06:26:05
http://shopping.com/xPF-Sony_Sony_XM_DS1600P5_1000W_x_1_Car_Amp_Mono_Subwoofer_Amps
that puts out 900wrms @ 14.4 V and is available in a price range of 150$ to 280$ at various e-tailers.. not a bad amp for price.. i have been personally using it to power two bandpass subs from blau..
Victor...
swez on 12/18/2004 09:58:56
The issue here, is adequate sub power and not having to do a major electrical upgrade as well.
Sub amp:
An honest 600 Wrms amp and 2 solid subs will give very good bass and not be a major power hog when you dial up the bass. The JBL BP-600.1 is a solid Class D amp, good for 1 or 2 ohms and actually has a tad more output than it is rated for. The hard part is finding one. These are a few years old now and harder to find then hen's teeth. A refurbished amp is worth considering too. Usually a good warranty and about 30% less than a new amp in cost. Have a short list of quality amps and good prices listed below.
==================================================
Subs:
Can still use the Alpine SWR-1241D's with the JBL amp. If you go to a Sony amp, will have to switch to a pair of 2+2 DVC subs. (SWR-1221D) Actually, the 1221D will work fine with either amp.
http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/search__cat_id--11940000,prod_id--7226241.html
===================================================
Interior Speakers:
Have you purchased and installed these Pioneer speakers yet? If yes, we'll probably have to do some careful tweaking to get adequate output and reasonable SQ from them. The rear 6.5's would be a better choice up front and amped. The other pair can be switched to rear location and powered off the HU amps.
===================================================
Interior amp for Front speakers:
Try to use the same brand amp as used for your subs. Here, a 50 x 2 Wrms amp will be plenty for the more powerful 4 way Pioneers mentioned. Amp brands to consider:
1. HiFonics Sub & 2 channel amps
http://www.thezeb.com/c-Amplifiers-6644.htm
2. Digital Audio (3 amps here, 1 for fronts, 1 for each sub) <$300
http://www.thezeb.com/p-Digital-Audio-DA2075W-2-Channel-Amplifier-108889.htm (use a pair of SWR 1221D's subs here)
3. MA Audio (2 amps here, 1 for fronts stereo, the other bridged for subs... use a pair of SWR-1241D's here)
http://www.thezeb.com/p-MA-Audio-HK102SX-2-Channel-Amplifier-102511.htm <$250.00 here
4. JBL Amps: BP-600.1 D Full range: Search with Google or off ebay
5. Sony Amps: Search with Google or off ebay
Good luck,
Swez
b3rto on 12/18/2004 11:37:09
i already installed the 2 rear 6.5s but not the fronts il switch em around soon when i get everything. if i get the swr-1241D's with the 2 MA audio amps do i have to do any electrical upgrade? and what kind of wiring will i need? 4 gauge ? etc..
b3rto on 12/18/2004 11:59:26
can i just get the MA Audio HK102SX 2 channel for the subs and the Digital Audio DA2075W 2 channel for the fronts.? or does it matter if the brands are different?
Victor on 12/18/2004 15:38:27
well... i dont think there shall be much difference if you use two different amps from the reputed brands.. as far as the specs match..
it shall be just some tweaking problem which can be easily solved with guidance on the forum.. its because different brands provide different features and it sure takes some time to understand and efficiently use all of them if you are a beginner..
all the amps mentioned above by swez are sure performers except a few black sheep's by sony and hifonics.. well the new product line is much more better than the older versions but u gotta be careful while selecting a sony or hifonics.. i have had extreme bad as well as very good experience with sony & hifonics products ..
regarding selecting a 2 ch amp for the subs i wud recommend buying a mono class D amp for the subs they are much more efficient and are aimed at powering subs.. while selecting the monoblocs keep in mind that it has a feature called the sub sonic filter to filter out the unwanted low frequencies.. bass boost and other features are desirable too..
regarding the electronic upgrades you wud need them if you extract power above 600wrms +/-100wrmsfrom the amps.. until that limit usually all stock alts & batt work fine.. if u get minor flickering of the interior lights you can think of adding a 1.2 farad cap .. if you get minor headlight dimming you shud upgrade to a better battery.. in case of heavy dimming of the headlights you wud need an alt upgrade..
until then i dont see it necessary to upgrade the electrical system.
hey swez.. i know the JBL 600.1 is out of stock on almost all e-tailers.. how about a 2 X JBL 300.1 for each alpine type R(1241D) subs....??? wud work equally well..
http://www.epinions.com/615052_JBL_300W_x_1_BP300_1/display_~full_specs
what ya say...??
here's a good 2 ch amp from PG..
http://www.shopping.com/xPF-Phoenix_Gold_Phoenix_Gold_R2_5_2_Amp_2_Channel
these from alpine..
http://www.epinions.com/Alpine_MRP_T130_2_1_Channel_VPower_Amplifier___MRP_T130/display_~full_specs
http://www.epinions.com/pr-Alpine_MRV-T320_Car_Audio_Amplifier/display_~full_specs
these 2 channel amp options are for powering the fronts..
comments...??
Victor...
Victor on 12/18/2004 18:08:44
a good news for all you JBL 600.1 loving guys out there..
here u can get them BRAND NEW at $ 287.65 + shipping .
http://www.techronics.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=18
Victor....
b3rto on 12/18/2004 19:57:42
ok i guess im gettin the 2 type r's with the MA audio and the Digital Audio for the fronts.. and im gona need the right wiring for them too .. thank you
Victor on 12/19/2004 09:41:06
as you wish......... but i would once again suggest going for a class D mono amp rather than a class A/B 2ch amp for the subs...
comments...??
Victor...
swez on 12/19/2004 09:42:10
The Digital Audio amp is a good choice for your front speakers. Adequate power here, to get the job done.
After thinking (more research) about power management issues, I am leaning the same way as Victor... a decent Class D sub amp. The HK-102SX is a high current, 2 channel amp. I cannot find the current draw specs on this amp off MA web site, but suspect it will be in the 50-60A range, at full rated power. That's a lot of juice for a 400 watt amp. A typical 400-600 watt Class D will pull much less current. (40-50A)
1. JBL BP-600.1 (max 57A, typ ~50A)
2. Kicker KX-600 (max 60A, typ ~50A)
3. Alpine MRD-M501 (max 60A, typ ~50A)
4. Infinity Reference 610a (max 60A, typ ~50A)
Each of these amps noted will supply between 550 - 600+ Wrms to your subs. All are 2 ohm stable. The proper subs for these would be the 2+2 DVC version SWR-1221D.
If you shop them hard off a google search or e-bay, the prices should be pretty close to $200.00. (best street prices)
Once we have confirmed the amps to be used, then a wiring kit would be next. It looks like a #4 gage power line kit will be adequate here. Then you'll need RCA's and speaker wire for finish the project.
Swez
b3rto on 12/19/2004 12:57:08
i purchased the Infinity Reference 610a .. and why the 1221ds more than the 1241ds? but im getting the swr-1221ds.
Victor on 12/19/2004 15:30:33
because you have a flexibility of wiring then to a total of 2 ohms load to extract the maximum out of the amp.. where as with 2 1241d's u cannot get a total load of 2 ohms.. the best you can work out is a 4 ohm total load for the amp.. this will not push your amp to its best..
Victor..
b3rto on 12/19/2004 20:20:52
what does SPL mean?
Victor on 12/20/2004 04:11:56
Sound Pressure Level
swez on 12/20/2004 07:52:37
Good amp choice... stay with a pair of Alpine SWR 1221D's. Yes, that sub costs a tad more... but you need a pair of 2+2 DVC's to get the full potential off that amp.
Swez
Victor on 12/20/2004 08:03:20
well.. just one question here b3rto... are 2 subs necessary here.. one equally powerful sub cud do the trick for you and save some money and space too..
think about it.. if u agree we can suggest you some very good subs in the range of 600 +/- 150 wrms...
comments...??
Victor...
b3rto on 12/20/2004 10:06:52
i'll stick with the 2 subs but thanks anyways.
Victor on 12/20/2004 11:46:13
kool.. let me know if you are looking to build an enclosure for your subs.. i can be helpful..
Victor...
b3rto on 12/20/2004 16:42:46
i think im just going to buy one but i dont know which one to get.. (cuz im really stupid)
Victor on 12/20/2004 17:34:38
many of us wud not suggest buying a pre fab box.. beause of the quality of material.. box strenght.. un matching specs to the subs..
it wont be very tough to build one for urself provided u have time and some wood working skills.. and tools.. or if someone who has them can help u..
let us know if u plan to build one.. i dont know many places selling good pre-fab boxes.. may be someone else can help u here...
Victor...
b3rto on 12/20/2004 21:10:33
see im really stupid but my dad has lots of wood workin skills and tools haha ..if you could give me everything needed to build one i would ask him to. a diagram or something would be usefull heh. thank you
ZeAliOuS on 12/20/2004 21:43:05
if ur on a tight budget one sub ported and powered right can be killer.
b3rto on 12/21/2004 05:36:24
i decided the 2 12 alpine swr1221ds and now i just need everything to build the box.
swez on 12/21/2004 07:16:10
The Zeb carries a very good sub box brand called SubZone.
They have a sealed, dual 12" sub enclosure that has a perfect internal dimension for these subs. Have a look and see if the external measurements will fit into your vehicle.
http://www.thezeb.com/p-SubZone-T-122-12-inch-Truck-Enclosure-108413.htm ($70.00 + S/H)
Can barely build a box of this quality, when you consider cost of materials and 4-6 hours labor. Just add some polyfil to each chamber, (1lb per chamber) wire up your subs and give er a go.
Swez
PS BTW, you seem intelligent enough to ask for help when you need it. Perhaps a little more research efforts on your part, will sharpen your skills to a point where you can offer some useful advice here and to your buddies. (or bring them here)
Ignorance: We don't know what we don't know!
Example: How high is up?
Stupid: We know what we should do, but refuse to do it! (to our peril)
Example: Want to take a long road trip, but refuse to fill up the gas tank when the gas gage is below empty. (It's 10 degrees below "0" and we don't have a gas can. (now, that's true stupididity)
b3rto on 12/21/2004 21:35:36
my last questions are .. wha would be great quality speakers for upfront? the wires im going to need to wire the system (RCAs,Speaker wire,ground, etc). once i know the speakers for upfront ..il look for an amp myself if i need a diff one. i know what to look for now. thank you all .. have a safe xmas ;)
speakerman3 on 12/23/2004 17:01:18
It is somewhat subjective as to what sounds good (for example, some people like metal dome tweeters up front, but I prefer soft domes), but you should be able to find some consensus on good quality speakers. I have CDT Audio braxials as front speakers, and love them. They are somewhat pricey, though.
Crystal Mobilesound makes some 6.5 component coaxials (the tweeter sits on a bracket over the midbass, but doesn't come out of its middle) that can be picked up for around $100. They also can handle a bit of power (75rms rating), and might be the deal for you.
Listen to some speakers to see what you like. Fronts are about the most important part of your system, so do as much research and listening as you can.
Good luck.
Chris
speakerman3 on 12/23/2004 17:08:58
Here's one place to find the Crystal 6.5's. I know that I have seen them for around $100 (maybe eBay?), if you can't find them that cheap, but are interested, let me know.
http://www.mainstreet-audio.com/crystal/crystal_mobilesound_speakers.shtml
Chris
Replies (39)
swez on 12/11/2004 18:53:03
OK, that's a 2 channel amp, 150 x 2 WRMS @ 4 ohms per channel. If you bridge the amp MONO, can get almost 500 Wrms @ 4 ohms.
To get the most from this amp, your subs will need to be rated at ~250 Wrms each. You'll need a pair of 4+4 DVC's to wire this amp for maximum efficiency.
Is that $200.00/sub max or no more than $200.00 for both subs?
Swez
b3rto on 12/15/2004 20:55:28
200/sub max ..and i got 2 4way pioneers in the back ( http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2569443&cat=38981&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3947%3A96481%3A38981#long_descr ) and ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58027&item=5737291132&rd=1 ) in the front i want to power up the 2 in the front with the cd player n the 2 in the back with an amp ..wha wuld be the best amp to go with them. and where do i get the 4+4 DVC's ?
swez on 12/15/2004 21:27:08
Most guys here, prefer to amp the best quality front speakers thay can afford. The rear speakers are often run of the HU amps as rear fill only. Then we add subs and an amp.
As for subs with that Kenwood 2 channel, many of us like Alpine SWR-1241D's. They are easy to find for ~ $100.00/ea. off the net.
http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/search__cat_id--11940000,prod_id--7226240.html
Swez
PS When using links to show products, please separate the link from text like I did. Don't use () either... just makes it so much easier to c/p into browsers... Thanks!
b3rto on 12/16/2004 19:43:40
so what am i doing with the 6 1/2's in the front and the back? ..i sold my amp for 100 bucks :/ now im just lookin for subs+amp for like 400 thatll give me a good sound .. sorry that i keep changin things around
swez on 12/16/2004 20:45:12
Avoid changing plans if possible... it's drive the Golds crazy OK?
Yes, we can help you get a great system together and it does not have to be done all at once. Develope an overall plan of what you want, then ask for help.
A solid HU with features that fit your projected needs, is also a big part of designing a good system. Buy a HU with only the features you really need or can use. No need to by a $500.00 HU if you can get the features needed with a $200.00 HU. Features like:
* 2-3 pairs of RCA outs for amping (4 volts output is great)
* Some form of EQ/DSP (very helpful feature)
* Perhaps and AUX input source for add ons later (I-POD, MP3 etc.)
* Maybe HP/LP filtering menu
* Internal amps if you don't plan to amp all speakers (~20 watts RMS/ch)
* Simple face plate (removable... not motorized)
* A decent display you can see at all times
* Remote control features are nice (easy on the HU function buttons)
===================================================
Once you have that in mind, then it's speaker time. The most important part of any great system are quality speakers and adequate power to run them to potential. They need to be reasonable efficient, if you power them off HU amps. (90dB/watt or higher)
Your best speakers and power belong up front. Most decent speakers are NOT super cheap. Coaxial designs will work. Component speaker (2-way) are a bit more $$, but generally offer superior performance when installed properly and have enough power. (the crossovers and better speakers, make all the difference) Yes, coaxials are OK... but they often use cheap crossovers that dergrade performance. If you choose Coaxials, use the kind where the tweeters can be aimed 15-20 degrees upward.
The rear speaker are mostly rear fill and can be powered off a HU or amped, depending on your preferences. Can use Coaxials if you like full range or just Midbass fill in the back. A personal preference here.
====================================================
Amps:
Need to look at power the amps consume VS power they put out. A 50-100 WRMS amp is plenty for most car applications. Can be 2 or 4 channel, depending on your needs. A solid 4 channel with adequate HP/LP filtering can be used for fronts and a sub. This is the cheapest way to go. The rear speakers are run off the HU amps (rear Channels for fade)
If you are considering a strong bass system, a separate amp and 1-2 subs will give you solid bass. The sub and enclosure choices are key. Do you like lots of low, deep bass? Or, tight, punchy bass? That will dictate the subs and enclosure you choose.
Power?
Depends on how much your electrical system can support. Here's a general break down to consider:
100-300 RMS : low 120's dB of bass ( 1 sub ported)
300-600 RMS : high 130's - low 140's dB of bass (1 strong -2 medium subs)
600 -1000 RMS : mid 140's to high 140's dB of bass (1 potent sub, or 2 strong subs
===================================================
OK, lots to consider here. Think it through carefully and figure out what direction you wish to go. Remember, you can do this in stages as $$$ permits... but the plan and goals are what to focus on now. Good planning up front, will net well above average results when you a finished.
Please, don't even think about jumping all over the globe on install options. It just drives us crazy and we (no.. I) will not help you too much, if the plan changes every day or two. Got better things to do right? Respect our skills and willingness to help. Don't abuse it, or you'll be on your own OK?
Thanks,
Swez
Victor on 12/17/2004 05:47:14
lol... swez.. hehehe..
yeah i agree hold on to a well thought plan..
anyways that reply of yours is a great one.. why not copy that write up and post it as an article on CK.. it shall surely guide many in the right direction..
what ya say??
comments...??
Victor...
swez on 12/17/2004 09:01:37
If others agree that it is helpful, sure.. I'll do that.
Swez
b3rto on 12/17/2004 10:36:31
i have a solid HU with 2 pairs rca outs removable EQ .. i want to power the speakers separate from the subs. and i want sum tight bass. i dont know too much about this but if you think powering the rears with the HU and the fronts with amp i'll do that
b3rto on 12/17/2004 12:29:16
is a SONY XPLOD XM-DS1300P5 a good amp to power up pair of 2 12's alpine type R
uochronos on 12/17/2004 17:42:20
Sony amps are not known for being well made or well rated... i have heard many stories about them shorting out after a relativly short time of use. also in general sony amps are far overated output wise.
with that said this aprticular amp is 219$ retail and puts out 400watts at 2ohm at 14.4volts.... you have to figure that most cars only run at 13volts about. so that means it wlel put out a bit less then 400watts more like 370watts RMS ro so. now with that said it still isnt a bad amp for around 200$
however alpine type R 12" subs are rated at 300watts per son. that means 600watts RMS for a pair that would be only giving these subs half the power that they need to operate well at. i would not suggest this amp for 2 alpine type R 12" subs... for one sub this would be a good amp choice.
any questions?
Chronos
swez on 12/17/2004 17:55:00
That amp has decent features and 400 Wrms @ 2 ohms. Really a single Alpine SWR-1241D (4+4 DVC) will handle this amp OK.
Alpine recommends a 0.85 cf enclosure (internal dimensions) as the best all around sealed enclosure size. If you want more punch, drop to a smaller box of 0.7 - 0.75 cf. (internal)
Yes, power the rear speakers with the HU. Should get decent output from them with ~20 Wrms per speaker back there. As for the front speakers... this is your bread & butter part of the speaker system. The better the quality speakers used here, the better the audio system will sound.
Amping them, yes... how much amp? Depends on the speakers you choose and how much RMS power they can handle. (50-75 Wrms per channel should be plenty if you buy somewhat effecient speakers. (~90 dB SPL 1 watt/1 meter)
The Pioneer 3-ways mentioned earlier, are really not good quality or take much power either. (35 watts/ea.) Might want to "invest" in better quality and power handling speakers.
Key Features: Pioneer TS-A1670R
» 3/8" PET silver film dome tweeter
» 1-5/8" balanced dome PPC (Pearl PolyCarbon) midrange
» Aramid fiber reinforced IMPP woofer with durable rubber surround
» designed with shallow basket to accommodate more vehicles
» frequency response 30-28,000 Hz
» recommended power range 2-35 watts RMS
» sensitivity 90 dB
» top-mount depth 1-3/4"
Swez
b3rto on 12/17/2004 23:17:33
ok how about if i take the 2 4ways pioneer that handle bout 50 wrms each and put the 2 3way pioneers in the back n power them with the HU. but what amp do you suggest for the 2 type Rs and and amp for the 2 pioneers. and if you can please find me a site of the enclousure you recommend for the subs. thank you
Victor on 12/18/2004 06:16:40
alpine has the right kinda enclosure design for the 2 12" type R's there are downloadable pdf's with diagrams and specs on their site.. they are ported enclosures..
if you are looking for some kinda innovation or new kinda enclosure i wud be able to help you.. but the alpine suggestion would be easier to make and would give u great results too.. the JBL 600.1 would be a very good amp to power those subs with..
everyone around would agree with that.. for that matter if you go for the 2 ohm DVC version of the type R's i mean the 12 you can go for the sony 1600p5..
Victor...
Victor on 12/18/2004 06:26:05
http://shopping.com/xPF-Sony_Sony_XM_DS1600P5_1000W_x_1_Car_Amp_Mono_Subwoofer_Amps
that puts out 900wrms @ 14.4 V and is available in a price range of 150$ to 280$ at various e-tailers.. not a bad amp for price.. i have been personally using it to power two bandpass subs from blau..
Victor...
swez on 12/18/2004 09:58:56
The issue here, is adequate sub power and not having to do a major electrical upgrade as well.
Sub amp:
An honest 600 Wrms amp and 2 solid subs will give very good bass and not be a major power hog when you dial up the bass. The JBL BP-600.1 is a solid Class D amp, good for 1 or 2 ohms and actually has a tad more output than it is rated for. The hard part is finding one. These are a few years old now and harder to find then hen's teeth. A refurbished amp is worth considering too. Usually a good warranty and about 30% less than a new amp in cost. Have a short list of quality amps and good prices listed below.
==================================================
Subs:
Can still use the Alpine SWR-1241D's with the JBL amp. If you go to a Sony amp, will have to switch to a pair of 2+2 DVC subs. (SWR-1221D) Actually, the 1221D will work fine with either amp.
http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/search__cat_id--11940000,prod_id--7226241.html
===================================================
Interior Speakers:
Have you purchased and installed these Pioneer speakers yet? If yes, we'll probably have to do some careful tweaking to get adequate output and reasonable SQ from them. The rear 6.5's would be a better choice up front and amped. The other pair can be switched to rear location and powered off the HU amps.
===================================================
Interior amp for Front speakers:
Try to use the same brand amp as used for your subs. Here, a 50 x 2 Wrms amp will be plenty for the more powerful 4 way Pioneers mentioned. Amp brands to consider:
1. HiFonics Sub & 2 channel amps
http://www.thezeb.com/c-Amplifiers-6644.htm
2. Digital Audio (3 amps here, 1 for fronts, 1 for each sub) <$300
http://www.thezeb.com/p-Digital-Audio-DA2075W-2-Channel-Amplifier-108889.htm (use a pair of SWR 1221D's subs here)
3. MA Audio (2 amps here, 1 for fronts stereo, the other bridged for subs... use a pair of SWR-1241D's here)
http://www.thezeb.com/p-MA-Audio-HK102SX-2-Channel-Amplifier-102511.htm <$250.00 here
4. JBL Amps: BP-600.1 D Full range: Search with Google or off ebay
5. Sony Amps: Search with Google or off ebay
Good luck,
Swez
b3rto on 12/18/2004 11:37:09
i already installed the 2 rear 6.5s but not the fronts il switch em around soon when i get everything. if i get the swr-1241D's with the 2 MA audio amps do i have to do any electrical upgrade? and what kind of wiring will i need? 4 gauge ? etc..
b3rto on 12/18/2004 11:59:26
can i just get the MA Audio HK102SX 2 channel for the subs and the Digital Audio DA2075W 2 channel for the fronts.? or does it matter if the brands are different?
Victor on 12/18/2004 15:38:27
well... i dont think there shall be much difference if you use two different amps from the reputed brands.. as far as the specs match..
it shall be just some tweaking problem which can be easily solved with guidance on the forum.. its because different brands provide different features and it sure takes some time to understand and efficiently use all of them if you are a beginner..
all the amps mentioned above by swez are sure performers except a few black sheep's by sony and hifonics.. well the new product line is much more better than the older versions but u gotta be careful while selecting a sony or hifonics.. i have had extreme bad as well as very good experience with sony & hifonics products ..
regarding selecting a 2 ch amp for the subs i wud recommend buying a mono class D amp for the subs they are much more efficient and are aimed at powering subs.. while selecting the monoblocs keep in mind that it has a feature called the sub sonic filter to filter out the unwanted low frequencies.. bass boost and other features are desirable too..
regarding the electronic upgrades you wud need them if you extract power above 600wrms +/-100wrmsfrom the amps.. until that limit usually all stock alts & batt work fine.. if u get minor flickering of the interior lights you can think of adding a 1.2 farad cap .. if you get minor headlight dimming you shud upgrade to a better battery.. in case of heavy dimming of the headlights you wud need an alt upgrade..
until then i dont see it necessary to upgrade the electrical system.
hey swez.. i know the JBL 600.1 is out of stock on almost all e-tailers.. how about a 2 X JBL 300.1 for each alpine type R(1241D) subs....??? wud work equally well..
http://www.epinions.com/615052_JBL_300W_x_1_BP300_1/display_~full_specs
what ya say...??
here's a good 2 ch amp from PG..
http://www.shopping.com/xPF-Phoenix_Gold_Phoenix_Gold_R2_5_2_Amp_2_Channel
these from alpine..
http://www.epinions.com/Alpine_MRP_T130_2_1_Channel_VPower_Amplifier___MRP_T130/display_~full_specs
http://www.epinions.com/pr-Alpine_MRV-T320_Car_Audio_Amplifier/display_~full_specs
these 2 channel amp options are for powering the fronts..
comments...??
Victor...
Victor on 12/18/2004 18:08:44
a good news for all you JBL 600.1 loving guys out there..
here u can get them BRAND NEW at $ 287.65 + shipping .
http://www.techronics.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=18
Victor....
b3rto on 12/18/2004 19:57:42
ok i guess im gettin the 2 type r's with the MA audio and the Digital Audio for the fronts.. and im gona need the right wiring for them too .. thank you
Victor on 12/19/2004 09:41:06
as you wish......... but i would once again suggest going for a class D mono amp rather than a class A/B 2ch amp for the subs...
comments...??
Victor...
swez on 12/19/2004 09:42:10
The Digital Audio amp is a good choice for your front speakers. Adequate power here, to get the job done.
After thinking (more research) about power management issues, I am leaning the same way as Victor... a decent Class D sub amp. The HK-102SX is a high current, 2 channel amp. I cannot find the current draw specs on this amp off MA web site, but suspect it will be in the 50-60A range, at full rated power. That's a lot of juice for a 400 watt amp. A typical 400-600 watt Class D will pull much less current. (40-50A)
1. JBL BP-600.1 (max 57A, typ ~50A)
2. Kicker KX-600 (max 60A, typ ~50A)
3. Alpine MRD-M501 (max 60A, typ ~50A)
4. Infinity Reference 610a (max 60A, typ ~50A)
Each of these amps noted will supply between 550 - 600+ Wrms to your subs. All are 2 ohm stable. The proper subs for these would be the 2+2 DVC version SWR-1221D.
If you shop them hard off a google search or e-bay, the prices should be pretty close to $200.00. (best street prices)
Once we have confirmed the amps to be used, then a wiring kit would be next. It looks like a #4 gage power line kit will be adequate here. Then you'll need RCA's and speaker wire for finish the project.
Swez
b3rto on 12/19/2004 12:57:08
i purchased the Infinity Reference 610a .. and why the 1221ds more than the 1241ds? but im getting the swr-1221ds.
Victor on 12/19/2004 15:30:33
because you have a flexibility of wiring then to a total of 2 ohms load to extract the maximum out of the amp.. where as with 2 1241d's u cannot get a total load of 2 ohms.. the best you can work out is a 4 ohm total load for the amp.. this will not push your amp to its best..
Victor..
b3rto on 12/19/2004 20:20:52
what does SPL mean?
Victor on 12/20/2004 04:11:56
Sound Pressure Level
swez on 12/20/2004 07:52:37
Good amp choice... stay with a pair of Alpine SWR 1221D's. Yes, that sub costs a tad more... but you need a pair of 2+2 DVC's to get the full potential off that amp.
Swez
Victor on 12/20/2004 08:03:20
well.. just one question here b3rto... are 2 subs necessary here.. one equally powerful sub cud do the trick for you and save some money and space too..
think about it.. if u agree we can suggest you some very good subs in the range of 600 +/- 150 wrms...
comments...??
Victor...
b3rto on 12/20/2004 10:06:52
i'll stick with the 2 subs but thanks anyways.
Victor on 12/20/2004 11:46:13
kool.. let me know if you are looking to build an enclosure for your subs.. i can be helpful..
Victor...
b3rto on 12/20/2004 16:42:46
i think im just going to buy one but i dont know which one to get.. (cuz im really stupid)
Victor on 12/20/2004 17:34:38
many of us wud not suggest buying a pre fab box.. beause of the quality of material.. box strenght.. un matching specs to the subs..
it wont be very tough to build one for urself provided u have time and some wood working skills.. and tools.. or if someone who has them can help u..
let us know if u plan to build one.. i dont know many places selling good pre-fab boxes.. may be someone else can help u here...
Victor...
b3rto on 12/20/2004 21:10:33
see im really stupid but my dad has lots of wood workin skills and tools haha ..if you could give me everything needed to build one i would ask him to. a diagram or something would be usefull heh. thank you
ZeAliOuS on 12/20/2004 21:43:05
if ur on a tight budget one sub ported and powered right can be killer.
b3rto on 12/21/2004 05:36:24
i decided the 2 12 alpine swr1221ds and now i just need everything to build the box.
swez on 12/21/2004 07:16:10
The Zeb carries a very good sub box brand called SubZone.
They have a sealed, dual 12" sub enclosure that has a perfect internal dimension for these subs. Have a look and see if the external measurements will fit into your vehicle.
http://www.thezeb.com/p-SubZone-T-122-12-inch-Truck-Enclosure-108413.htm ($70.00 + S/H)
Can barely build a box of this quality, when you consider cost of materials and 4-6 hours labor. Just add some polyfil to each chamber, (1lb per chamber) wire up your subs and give er a go.
Swez
PS BTW, you seem intelligent enough to ask for help when you need it. Perhaps a little more research efforts on your part, will sharpen your skills to a point where you can offer some useful advice here and to your buddies. (or bring them here)
Ignorance: We don't know what we don't know!
Example: How high is up?
Stupid: We know what we should do, but refuse to do it! (to our peril)
Example: Want to take a long road trip, but refuse to fill up the gas tank when the gas gage is below empty. (It's 10 degrees below "0" and we don't have a gas can. (now, that's true stupididity)
b3rto on 12/21/2004 21:35:36
my last questions are .. wha would be great quality speakers for upfront? the wires im going to need to wire the system (RCAs,Speaker wire,ground, etc). once i know the speakers for upfront ..il look for an amp myself if i need a diff one. i know what to look for now. thank you all .. have a safe xmas ;)
speakerman3 on 12/23/2004 17:01:18
It is somewhat subjective as to what sounds good (for example, some people like metal dome tweeters up front, but I prefer soft domes), but you should be able to find some consensus on good quality speakers. I have CDT Audio braxials as front speakers, and love them. They are somewhat pricey, though.
Crystal Mobilesound makes some 6.5 component coaxials (the tweeter sits on a bracket over the midbass, but doesn't come out of its middle) that can be picked up for around $100. They also can handle a bit of power (75rms rating), and might be the deal for you.
Listen to some speakers to see what you like. Fronts are about the most important part of your system, so do as much research and listening as you can.
Good luck.
Chris
speakerman3 on 12/23/2004 17:08:58
Here's one place to find the Crystal 6.5's. I know that I have seen them for around $100 (maybe eBay?), if you can't find them that cheap, but are interested, let me know.
http://www.mainstreet-audio.com/crystal/crystal_mobilesound_speakers.shtml
Chris
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