I will be getting a JBl 600.1 and two 13kv.2 12"s. And the box will have 35hz. Do i need to get a SS and what does it do? USFLAG
Replies (32)
swez on 12/2/2004 11:57:04
SS filters block out ultra low frequencies to sub amps that can create problems with amp power usage and sub issues. They are generally simple to install modules or crossovers that block out undesired frequencies in the audio spectrum.
If you are using a ported enclosure, you should use an SS filter, close to the range of the port tuned frequency. Harrison Labs makes a nice modular product that is inserted between the HU RCA line outs and amp inputs. They offer a -12dB/octave filter network (plenty good) and not very expensive either. Here's a look at what you need:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=266-248 $26.00/pr. + S/H
This is a 30 Hz., SS filter and will do the job just fine as there is typically little music below 35 Hz., in "most music" content todays' most popular music. (Exceptions: Classical, orchestral and Church organ music)
These F-Mods come in pairs.
Swez
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 16:10:16
I will be listening to rap and have a 2 35hz boxes
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 16:10:37
I just talked to the guy at elimental designs, he said if i bought 2 12" 13kv.2 and the Nine 1 amp (1200rms) it would be good,
he also said i would not need any electrical upgrades ------True or False
swez on 12/2/2004 20:18:40
I'm not sure I'd bank on that one. Running @ 1 ohm, this amp will pull substantial current. Not only that, these subs are running in the red zone with 600 WRms per sub. In a small sealed enclosure...maybe. In a larger ported enclosure... I would not risk it.
Swez
PS Rap has a lot of low bass. But, most of it is centered around 40 Hz., and above. The F-Mods will work out fine.
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 20:20:49
wut if i put it at 2 ohms, 900 rms, why did the guy tell me that
im making the vented box bluebrints thats on the site
he said if i took the left 2 boards out it will be 35hz
http://www.edesignaudio.com/im/main/12%20REC%20VENTED%20REV5.10.04.pdf
the package is 2 13Kv.2 Dual 2 + eD NINe.1 Package Deal
nine 1 @ 1ohm is 1200rms, 2ohm 900rms, 4ohm 400rms
swez on 12/2/2004 21:10:17
The shorter the port/vent, the higher the tuning frequency will be. The "area" (length x dia) of the port/vent determines the PTF. (Port Tuning Freq.)
There's no way to get a 2 ohm load off a pair of 4+4 DVC's. You can do 1, 4 or 16 ohms... but not 2.
Swez
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 21:15:46
there 2+2DVCs, the 12"13kv.2
2 of them in series makes 2ohms right, that amp running at 900rms, will the subs be ok and do i need to add any electricals
swez on 12/2/2004 21:29:21
Ahhh, OK, can do a 2 ohm load that way. But still, 900 RMS is pushing the limits of your electricals in a small Neon.
Also, that box is going to be very large. Having a pair of them in the back will be very challenging to fit them into your car. How about either using a different enclosure design (smaller) or drop to a single sub?
Swez
P0werLifter on 12/2/2004 21:35:47
I agree with Swez here, the enclosure you have provided is fairly large here, putting 2 of those in a trunk is going to be quits a hard task if at all possible due to the size of them. Why not build one large enclosure that will fit easily in your trunk for both of them with 1 port tuned to 35hz? Also, have you considered a Ported Enclosure rather than a TL style we have discussed earlier? Id be more than happy to design one for you and send you the dimensions.
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 22:08:43
is ported better than tl
P0werLifter on 12/2/2004 22:14:06
How much experience do you have building enclosures? TL is more complicated but is a better design, but ported is easier and can sound good also, ive done both. I like either one GRIN
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 22:21:41
My dad built my last enclosure, it was a triple 12" sub box
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 22:25:03
he says he can build the one i showed you
P0werLifter on 12/2/2004 22:28:29
Im concerned with how are you going to fit 2 of those in your trunk...
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 22:39:55
i measured and can put them in one at a time and have alittle room
P0werLifter on 12/2/2004 22:48:34
which way will the subs be facing?
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 22:52:20
the subs will be long ways, the vent in back and subs in front, as in the front being the trunk
swez on 12/3/2004 07:45:54
Am wondering about this one... suppose he built a box using 2 x 13Kv.2's and used only one port alignment?
This way, the box would be notably smaller, but still have the acoustical baffles tuned for ~35 Hz. The design noted earlier is 1.5 cf for a single sub. (but the overall box is > 3.4 cf externally)
If he were to add an additional 1.5 cf space for the 2nd sub, (3.0 cf for subs) and used the same porting idea (~1.6 cf) of additional box space, that would net out to ~ 5.0 cf externally i/o almost 7.0 cf if 2 boxes were used? I wonder how this would map out? A shared vent system for both subs...
Comments?
Swez
P0werLifter on 12/3/2004 13:39:10
Thats what i was trying to get at but i failed miserably
"I agree with Swez here, the enclosure you have provided is fairly large here, putting 2 of those in a trunk is going to be quits a hard task if at all possible due to the size of them. Why not build one large enclosure that will fit easily in your trunk for both of them with 1 port tuned to 35hz? Also, have you considered a Ported Enclosure rather than a TL style we have discussed earlier? Id be more than happy to design one for you and send you the dimensions. "
1 enclosure built and tuned to the correct Hz to house the 2 drivers is a much more efficient, and athstetically pleasing. Not only that, but it will save space rather than putting 2 seperate enclosures in the trunk.
2fastxd on 12/3/2004 15:53:44
Ok, i get wut you are saying, is it possible to get a blue print of this powerlifter
swez on 12/3/2004 16:34:07
Due to the design of the vent, it would be best to put both subs on the same side of the vent. With that in mind, one can simply extend the width of the enclosure by 1.5cf (internally) and add a bracing panel between the 2 subs to give additional support to the new sub addition.
That brace panel would not totally enclose the additional woofer, but would be deep enough in the box to give dimensional stability. We can leave an opening in that panel at the back wall of say 2 inches.
Also, since this enclosure design is tuned to 26 Hz., we have to adjust the entire width of the box to get to say 35 Hz. The eD tech you spoke about earlier, said that you can remove 2 baffle boards. That will effectively shorten the port length and the rest of the enclosure has to be scaled accordingly to maintain the 1.5 cf chamber for each sub.
Can you picture that original drawing by eD with an additional sub, just left of the one shown? Basically, the box will be re-scaled for 2 subs and a single ported vent. The size (area) of the vent, will determine the tuned frequency of the enclosure.
Swez
PS This enclosure design is not really a true transmission line (TL) enclosure. It is an extended port VENT. It is actually an Acoustically Tuned Labyrinth design.
P0werLifter on 12/3/2004 18:24:52
What is the widge and depth of your trunk opening? andhow much space do i have to work with here as far as WxHxD in inches.
If you have the parameters posted by tonight, when i get home from work ill start working on the design
swez on 12/3/2004 23:46:35
PL,
I see we are working this one together... I am HAPPY to be a part of a team...
Swez
2fastxd on 12/4/2004 00:11:07
Victor has designed my a quite nice box, Im gonna see when he can give me dimensions and he said it will fit Thx
P0werLifter on 12/4/2004 02:20:42
Swez,,it would appear that way but my help is no longer needed, apparently Victor's already designed him an enclosure =) Saves me some time, now its on to design my buddies enclosure for his 2004 Mustang GT GRIN
Victor on 12/4/2004 03:45:37
Hey guys.. Your comments.. suggestions and are always wwanted and needed.. do stay on this post..
I wud like to have your input on the design as its a pretty new one.. and has its own pro's and con's .. your views on the design are really important..
I dunno a way to post a pic here.. hence i am gonna send a mail to swez,
may be he can put it up here..
Victor...
Victor on 12/4/2004 04:17:24
i know this ones gonna face severe criticism..lol.. cause its gonna be hard to build..
but if u notice its nothing but two individual boxes put at 90' to eachother with some modifications in the port..
in this way the space problem can be solved.. it wud look something new too..
Victor..
P0werLifter on 12/4/2004 04:23:53
I have to see the design in order to really make a criticsm about it i cant really see it in my head, but on a side note, A complicated design is not going to work in 2fasts favor since he hasnt much experience from what i gather constructing enclosures
Victor on 12/4/2004 04:25:18
ok.. here's the link.. its a shared album on yahoo.. hope it works..
The new TL is the one is was talking about in the above posts..
comments..
Victor..
Victor on 12/4/2004 04:25:36
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/victorginger/album?.dir=/8136&.src=ph&.tok=phJhCKCB9EVE1kvG
swez on 12/4/2004 08:42:14
The 2TLenclosure1 makes a lot of sense. This one is easier to build and has all the proper attributes for a great car audio enclosure.
The advanced TL2 (90 degree offsets) looks very innovative on paper. It would be very difficult to construct w/o advanced wood working skills and tools. I have concerns about structural stability here when installing it. A set of temporary support braces, across the ports) will be needed to move this box around. Otherwise, I believe the box will fall apart at the vents. What is the actual footprint this box would need for install space?
Comments?
Swez
Victor on 12/4/2004 14:46:23
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/victorginger/album?.dir=/8136&.src=ph&.tok=phJhCKCB9EVE1kvG
check out the new file named TLfootprint on this link..
if u notice this is actually derived from a perfect square..
and shall require a similar kinda space for installation..
the gray area patch is the area this enclosure wud occupy..
Victor...
Replies (32)
swez on 12/2/2004 11:57:04
SS filters block out ultra low frequencies to sub amps that can create problems with amp power usage and sub issues. They are generally simple to install modules or crossovers that block out undesired frequencies in the audio spectrum.
If you are using a ported enclosure, you should use an SS filter, close to the range of the port tuned frequency. Harrison Labs makes a nice modular product that is inserted between the HU RCA line outs and amp inputs. They offer a -12dB/octave filter network (plenty good) and not very expensive either. Here's a look at what you need:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=266-248 $26.00/pr. + S/H
This is a 30 Hz., SS filter and will do the job just fine as there is typically little music below 35 Hz., in "most music" content todays' most popular music. (Exceptions: Classical, orchestral and Church organ music)
These F-Mods come in pairs.
Swez
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 16:10:16
I will be listening to rap and have a 2 35hz boxes
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 16:10:37
I just talked to the guy at elimental designs, he said if i bought 2 12" 13kv.2 and the Nine 1 amp (1200rms) it would be good,
he also said i would not need any electrical upgrades ------True or False
swez on 12/2/2004 20:18:40
I'm not sure I'd bank on that one. Running @ 1 ohm, this amp will pull substantial current. Not only that, these subs are running in the red zone with 600 WRms per sub. In a small sealed enclosure...maybe. In a larger ported enclosure... I would not risk it.
Swez
PS Rap has a lot of low bass. But, most of it is centered around 40 Hz., and above. The F-Mods will work out fine.
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 20:20:49
wut if i put it at 2 ohms, 900 rms, why did the guy tell me that
im making the vented box bluebrints thats on the site
he said if i took the left 2 boards out it will be 35hz
http://www.edesignaudio.com/im/main/12%20REC%20VENTED%20REV5.10.04.pdf
the package is 2 13Kv.2 Dual 2 + eD NINe.1 Package Deal
nine 1 @ 1ohm is 1200rms, 2ohm 900rms, 4ohm 400rms
swez on 12/2/2004 21:10:17
The shorter the port/vent, the higher the tuning frequency will be. The "area" (length x dia) of the port/vent determines the PTF. (Port Tuning Freq.)
There's no way to get a 2 ohm load off a pair of 4+4 DVC's. You can do 1, 4 or 16 ohms... but not 2.
Swez
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 21:15:46
there 2+2DVCs, the 12"13kv.2
2 of them in series makes 2ohms right, that amp running at 900rms, will the subs be ok and do i need to add any electricals
swez on 12/2/2004 21:29:21
Ahhh, OK, can do a 2 ohm load that way. But still, 900 RMS is pushing the limits of your electricals in a small Neon.
Also, that box is going to be very large. Having a pair of them in the back will be very challenging to fit them into your car. How about either using a different enclosure design (smaller) or drop to a single sub?
Swez
P0werLifter on 12/2/2004 21:35:47
I agree with Swez here, the enclosure you have provided is fairly large here, putting 2 of those in a trunk is going to be quits a hard task if at all possible due to the size of them. Why not build one large enclosure that will fit easily in your trunk for both of them with 1 port tuned to 35hz? Also, have you considered a Ported Enclosure rather than a TL style we have discussed earlier? Id be more than happy to design one for you and send you the dimensions.
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 22:08:43
is ported better than tl
P0werLifter on 12/2/2004 22:14:06
How much experience do you have building enclosures? TL is more complicated but is a better design, but ported is easier and can sound good also, ive done both. I like either one GRIN
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 22:21:41
My dad built my last enclosure, it was a triple 12" sub box
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 22:25:03
he says he can build the one i showed you
P0werLifter on 12/2/2004 22:28:29
Im concerned with how are you going to fit 2 of those in your trunk...
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 22:39:55
i measured and can put them in one at a time and have alittle room
P0werLifter on 12/2/2004 22:48:34
which way will the subs be facing?
2fastxd on 12/2/2004 22:52:20
the subs will be long ways, the vent in back and subs in front, as in the front being the trunk
swez on 12/3/2004 07:45:54
Am wondering about this one... suppose he built a box using 2 x 13Kv.2's and used only one port alignment?
This way, the box would be notably smaller, but still have the acoustical baffles tuned for ~35 Hz. The design noted earlier is 1.5 cf for a single sub. (but the overall box is > 3.4 cf externally)
If he were to add an additional 1.5 cf space for the 2nd sub, (3.0 cf for subs) and used the same porting idea (~1.6 cf) of additional box space, that would net out to ~ 5.0 cf externally i/o almost 7.0 cf if 2 boxes were used? I wonder how this would map out? A shared vent system for both subs...
Comments?
Swez
P0werLifter on 12/3/2004 13:39:10
Thats what i was trying to get at but i failed miserably
"I agree with Swez here, the enclosure you have provided is fairly large here, putting 2 of those in a trunk is going to be quits a hard task if at all possible due to the size of them. Why not build one large enclosure that will fit easily in your trunk for both of them with 1 port tuned to 35hz? Also, have you considered a Ported Enclosure rather than a TL style we have discussed earlier? Id be more than happy to design one for you and send you the dimensions. "
1 enclosure built and tuned to the correct Hz to house the 2 drivers is a much more efficient, and athstetically pleasing. Not only that, but it will save space rather than putting 2 seperate enclosures in the trunk.
2fastxd on 12/3/2004 15:53:44
Ok, i get wut you are saying, is it possible to get a blue print of this powerlifter
swez on 12/3/2004 16:34:07
Due to the design of the vent, it would be best to put both subs on the same side of the vent. With that in mind, one can simply extend the width of the enclosure by 1.5cf (internally) and add a bracing panel between the 2 subs to give additional support to the new sub addition.
That brace panel would not totally enclose the additional woofer, but would be deep enough in the box to give dimensional stability. We can leave an opening in that panel at the back wall of say 2 inches.
Also, since this enclosure design is tuned to 26 Hz., we have to adjust the entire width of the box to get to say 35 Hz. The eD tech you spoke about earlier, said that you can remove 2 baffle boards. That will effectively shorten the port length and the rest of the enclosure has to be scaled accordingly to maintain the 1.5 cf chamber for each sub.
Can you picture that original drawing by eD with an additional sub, just left of the one shown? Basically, the box will be re-scaled for 2 subs and a single ported vent. The size (area) of the vent, will determine the tuned frequency of the enclosure.
Swez
PS This enclosure design is not really a true transmission line (TL) enclosure. It is an extended port VENT. It is actually an Acoustically Tuned Labyrinth design.
P0werLifter on 12/3/2004 18:24:52
What is the widge and depth of your trunk opening? andhow much space do i have to work with here as far as WxHxD in inches.
If you have the parameters posted by tonight, when i get home from work ill start working on the design
swez on 12/3/2004 23:46:35
PL,
I see we are working this one together... I am HAPPY to be a part of a team...
Swez
2fastxd on 12/4/2004 00:11:07
Victor has designed my a quite nice box, Im gonna see when he can give me dimensions and he said it will fit Thx
P0werLifter on 12/4/2004 02:20:42
Swez,,it would appear that way but my help is no longer needed, apparently Victor's already designed him an enclosure =) Saves me some time, now its on to design my buddies enclosure for his 2004 Mustang GT GRIN
Victor on 12/4/2004 03:45:37
Hey guys.. Your comments.. suggestions and are always wwanted and needed.. do stay on this post..
I wud like to have your input on the design as its a pretty new one.. and has its own pro's and con's .. your views on the design are really important..
I dunno a way to post a pic here.. hence i am gonna send a mail to swez,
may be he can put it up here..
Victor...
Victor on 12/4/2004 04:17:24
i know this ones gonna face severe criticism..lol.. cause its gonna be hard to build..
but if u notice its nothing but two individual boxes put at 90' to eachother with some modifications in the port..
in this way the space problem can be solved.. it wud look something new too..
Victor..
P0werLifter on 12/4/2004 04:23:53
I have to see the design in order to really make a criticsm about it i cant really see it in my head, but on a side note, A complicated design is not going to work in 2fasts favor since he hasnt much experience from what i gather constructing enclosures
Victor on 12/4/2004 04:25:18
ok.. here's the link.. its a shared album on yahoo.. hope it works..
The new TL is the one is was talking about in the above posts..
comments..
Victor..
Victor on 12/4/2004 04:25:36
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/victorginger/album?.dir=/8136&.src=ph&.tok=phJhCKCB9EVE1kvG
swez on 12/4/2004 08:42:14
The 2TLenclosure1 makes a lot of sense. This one is easier to build and has all the proper attributes for a great car audio enclosure.
The advanced TL2 (90 degree offsets) looks very innovative on paper. It would be very difficult to construct w/o advanced wood working skills and tools. I have concerns about structural stability here when installing it. A set of temporary support braces, across the ports) will be needed to move this box around. Otherwise, I believe the box will fall apart at the vents. What is the actual footprint this box would need for install space?
Comments?
Swez
Victor on 12/4/2004 14:46:23
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/victorginger/album?.dir=/8136&.src=ph&.tok=phJhCKCB9EVE1kvG
check out the new file named TLfootprint on this link..
if u notice this is actually derived from a perfect square..
and shall require a similar kinda space for installation..
the gray area patch is the area this enclosure wud occupy..
Victor...
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
