Alright, I found this site off of Google, and I've been browsing around quite a bit, and you guys seem to know your stuff, and seem very helpful..so here goes :)
Okay. This isn't really my first install, but my only other experience is hooking up 4 new speakers to a new head unit. I want to do this one right. I have a 2003 Dodge Neon, with a stock 6 speaker system in it right now. It sounds decent, but I want a real stereo :-D What I want, essentially, is this same setup, with better speakers, obviously, and I some sub(s).
Now, I really don't know where to start. Well, I've always been fond of Kenwood, so I thinking an eXcelon head unit. This one, specifically http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dtHTKbdVHvI/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=62700&id=essential_info&i=113KDCX979
It seems to offer a lot of options on controlling..well..everything, hopefully avoiding an external crossover, if possible, as that is also something I don't know much about. lol
Um..speaker-wise..The head unit has a set of preamps for the front, rear, and subs, along with the standard 4 channels...I'm not really positive on how to wire up 6 speaker to this setup, any input would be appreciated. The Neon, as far as I know, has two 3" speakers under the windshield, 6" in the doors, and I'm assuming 6x9's on the back deck (Which has no opening for them, they're mounted right to the deck, with the sound coming through the board. Should I do anything about this?) I honestly have no idea what kind of speakers to get, brand-wise or type-wise.
Subwoofer-wise..Well, to be honest, I want to go for clarity and quality sound over just loud bass you can hear 5 miles away. I was tthinking one 12" sub (ported or sealed? Argh) Would be sufficient for me. I've seen some people with Kicker solo-baric L-7s and I always thought they sounded great, and looked nice too. I was wondering if one of these would be an idea, as I can get it already in a ported box. Amp-wise...again, honestly have no idea. Bleh.
As you can see, I need a lot of help. I'm considering this a learning experience...I gotta start somewhere. Sorry for such a long post, and I hope I'm not being overbearing here or anything. Well, any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm hoping to get this done within a month or two. Thanks :)
Replies (11)
Victor on 11/17/2004 23:27:57
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ how many do u wanna spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
ttocs on 11/18/2004 00:25:11
welcome to the forum...
You do not need much power for a 3 inch speaker. I would run the dash speakers off of the deck power, and get a good 4 channel amp for the rest of the mids and highs, possably a 5 channel if you want an all-in-one package to pwr a sub as well....
Descent on 11/18/2004 06:38:42
I'm thinking of spending around 2,000 or so, total. Give or take a few hundred.
And if I use a 4 channel amp, what RCA input would I hook that to on my head unit? Front or rear?
Also, can I get some advice on what kind of speakers to get? I really have no idea.
swez on 11/18/2004 07:42:52
Alpine makes a very nice setup all the way around. HU, Amps, Subs and speakers. The Kenwood eXelon series is also a good HU. But if you went all Alpine, the system would be smoother to install. (better systems integration)
AMP: The 5 Channel MRV-F450 is a very good option.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-5zpMkaf5c1P/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?
g=120&I=500MRVF450&search=alpine&wmsf=1
A little web shopping can bring the price down closer to $350.00
Speakers: As mentioned before, the 3" dash speakers can be powered off the HU amplifiers. The won't take a lot of power or bass. In fact, using bass blocking filters would be a good idea. A 3" speaker would be fine for midrange and do highs pretty well too. we can discuss that in detail, when choosing your speakers.
The 6" door speakers up front are the key to quality sound in the front stage of your ride. You can go with quality Component (2-way) or coaxials. It looks like you can use 5.25" - 6.75" speakers in the front doors.
The rear speakers for most SQ guys are usually low power, but high efficiency versions. They can be run off the HU amps or amped separately if you so desire. They can either be Midbass or full range, depending on your preferences.
Finally, a single 10-12" SUB is plenty here. Enough bump to know you are getting the lower 2 octaves of bass (30-60 Hz) that are now missing in your stock system. The F450 amp has a modest, but respectable 200 RMS @ 4 ohms. A decent ported or sealed sub with modeate power handling will do a fine job. This one comes to mind in Alpine gear: SWE-1241 (200 RMS, 4 ohm SVC)
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-5zpMkaf5c1P/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=67700&I=500SWE1241&search=alpine&wmsf=1
OK, there's a good primer to start with. Picking interior speakers can be a tough choice. If you went with good Component speakers up front, consider:
1. CDT CL-61a
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-CL-61A-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-101083.htm
2. MA Audio Comps Y3K6C
http://www.thezeb.com/p-MA-Audio-Y3K6C-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-102801.htm
Either of these offerings will be superior to what you have now.
Comments?
Swez
Descent on 11/18/2004 18:46:59
Alright, thanks for the replies..
Swez-
Okay, based on what you said, I don't think a 5 channel amp would be the best bet for me. I found this...now, I don't know if Kicker makes good amps or not, but it looked promising-
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-gBs7lBxdpYi/cgi-bin/prodgroup.asp?g=120&avf=Y&nvpair=AG%5FNumber%5Fof%5FChannels%7CFF3%40Channel
I was thinking, maybe, I could power the two 6 1/2" speakers and the sub with that amp, and the dash and rear deck speakers off the HU?
The component system sounds like a good idea, only, I have no idea how to mount tweeters :( And I'm assuming the crossovers aren't that difficult, just wire them in between the amp and the speakers? Out of the two you linked too, I think I like the MA Audio speakers better.
Looking at the sub description, I see entry level and it just makes me wince. lol. I know it's probably not an indication to the quality, but still. And, I don't know if I'm just jaded, but 200W seems rather weak? Looking at the amp I posted earlier, it says it will run at 420W at 2 ohms...Is it possible to run a 4 ohm sub at 2 ohms? I really have no idea what I'm talking about...I read up on a few articles on Ohms law and wahtnot, just hasn't clicked yet :) If that's the case, I was wondering if you could recommend a more powerful sub. Another thing about that, if you buy an enclosure and sub together, is that a good or bad idea? Cause I'm not too good at working with wood (metal's more my thing) and I don't know how well I could fabricate an enclosure.
Also, about the Alpine stuff..I had an Alpine HU in one of my older cars...I just never liked it too much so I've kinda shyed away from them.
And also, about the rear deck speakers, there's no hole in the rear deck with a speaker grille, they're just mounted to the back of it. I'm not sure if I need to buy a certain kind of speaker so they don't slam into the rear deck when playing.
Thanks a lot for the help man :) I really appreciate it, and any future help you may give.
swez on 11/19/2004 13:44:37
Interesting... that amp I have never seen, but it definitely has potential. Yes, Kicker makes a fine amp too.
The 2 channel section has enough power to run a good set of Comps. The sub section has enough power to give you a bit more bass than the 5 channel amp mentioned earlier. (about +3dB more bass)
As for mounting the tweeters, many tweeters can be surface mounted to the door panels, above the Midrange speaker. The crossovers are usually easy to wire, but also bulky. Some fit well into the door panels while others fit best under the dash. Either is acceptable. MA Audio makes some pretty good products too.
Subs: There are many fine subs out there to choose from. The one I mentioned is entry level on power, but not quality or performance. If you want a 2 ohm sub (YES) consider a 4+4 DVC style sub. This type of sub will give you a 2 ohm load when both coils are wired parallel to the amp.
More about subs:
There are 3 primary types of subs used in car audio today.
1. SPL - High efficiency subs (+90dB @ 1 watt or higher) that take a lot of power and put out high SPL with moderate power amps. Audiobahn, Kicker, Earthquake, Rockford, MA Audio and many others too.
2. SQ - Medium efficiency subs (87-89dB @ 1 watt) that are designed more for high definition bass response. Very accurate, can take a lot of power, but very linear or near flat response curves. Adire Audio, e-Designs, Resonance Engineering, JL, Focal and many others too.
3. SQL - This is a blend of both high definition bass and good SPL power handling. These are favored by many who demand high power output, but also have solid performance in the entire bass band range. (30 - 100 Hz typ.) Alpine, Infinity, JBL, JL and many others.
In short, pick out a category you are most interested in. Then we can do some research to find the right sub for your application. It will need to handle between 350-500 watts RMS of power. if you go with that Kicker amp. (good choice too)
The rear & dash speakers will play a small role in the overall sound of your new system. Since they are powered by HU amps, you may wish to leave them as is for now. Most stock OEM speakers are designed for low power applications, good efficiency but, limitedfrequency response. They can usually handle 15-25 watts of power well. However, these are primarily "fill in the gaps" application type speakers.
A typical 6x9 will deliver decent MB/MR performance with only minimal bass output. The 3" dash speakers may be useful as front stage "ambient fill". They cannot do bass or MB well, but should handle MR frequencies adequately. That's why I recommend bass blocking filters on them. More on that as we get there. Don't wish to overwhelm you all at once.
Finally, HU's and features are very much a personal choice. Just make sure you use a quality brand name that has enough features to be useful, but not so many gadgets, they become hard to operate and the price can get pretty spendy too.
Your move... where to next?
Swez
USFLAG Support our troops!
Descent on 11/19/2004 20:27:09
Okay, well, I met Victor in the chat room, and he helped me a lot, so I may have some semi-final choices on the components. Some things have changed, to please bear with me :)
HU - http://www.epinions.com/pr-Kenwood_KDC-X979_In-Dash_CD_Player/display_~full_specs
Sub - http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/12w6v2.html
Hope to get a sealed box for this. I have no woodworking tools, so I'm not sure how to go about it.
Amp for sub - http://www.epinions.com/pr-Alpine_MRD-M301_150W_x_1_Car_Amp_Mono_Subwoofer_Amps_Car_Audio_Amplifier/display_~full_specs
Component speakers for door - http://www.thezeb.com/p-MA-Audio-Y3K6C-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-102801.htm
Amp for comps - http://www.epinions.com/pr-MA_Audio_HK797_Car_Audio_Amplifier/display_~full_specs
Dash speakers - http://www.crutchfield.com/S-FXm0hOEjdFz/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=51100&I=108325CF
Now, I'm not sure if I want to replace my rear deck speakers, as they still sound decent, and would save me a lot of headaches not replacing them. I'm just not sure what effect not replacing them would off on the overall sound of the system.
Well, I guess that's a pretty good update. Comments, anyone?
Victor on 11/19/2004 23:26:37
hey.. this wud be a nice amp other than the alpine monobloc.. but if u use this along with the MA 2ch amp u may have to do atleast battery upgrades..( and alternator upgrade if there is a lot of headlight dimming)..
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLBP6001Z?ref=deal
using this proven amp will be a bit tricky cuase u will have to set the amp gain right..as it give 600wrms @2ohms and the sub can take 400wrms.. but as we were discussing on another post those extra 200wrms if handled properly can be very useful for much clear sound...
lets see what the other guys have to between these options.. and suggest some of theri own if they got some nice trick up their sleve..
comments...??
Victor...
Descent on 11/20/2004 15:39:27
Descent on 11/20/2004 15:41:01
I have a quick question, but no one is in chat, so here goes-
I was pretty sure I had decided on the Alpine MRD-M301 amp for the sub. It has 350W rms at 2 ohms. The JL audio sub I'm getting has a rating of 400W rms...I was wondering if this amp would be a better choice?
http://www.epinions.com/Kicker_Class_D_Subwoofer_Amplifier_02KX4001__Amplifiers_02KX4001/display_~full_specs
Comments, anyone? :)
swez on 11/20/2004 21:04:38
Yes, that would be a good choice for your system too. Has ability to handle a 5 volt input signal, subsonic filtering and adequate power too. This will do a good job!
Swez
Okay. This isn't really my first install, but my only other experience is hooking up 4 new speakers to a new head unit. I want to do this one right. I have a 2003 Dodge Neon, with a stock 6 speaker system in it right now. It sounds decent, but I want a real stereo :-D What I want, essentially, is this same setup, with better speakers, obviously, and I some sub(s).
Now, I really don't know where to start. Well, I've always been fond of Kenwood, so I thinking an eXcelon head unit. This one, specifically http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dtHTKbdVHvI/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=62700&id=essential_info&i=113KDCX979
It seems to offer a lot of options on controlling..well..everything, hopefully avoiding an external crossover, if possible, as that is also something I don't know much about. lol
Um..speaker-wise..The head unit has a set of preamps for the front, rear, and subs, along with the standard 4 channels...I'm not really positive on how to wire up 6 speaker to this setup, any input would be appreciated. The Neon, as far as I know, has two 3" speakers under the windshield, 6" in the doors, and I'm assuming 6x9's on the back deck (Which has no opening for them, they're mounted right to the deck, with the sound coming through the board. Should I do anything about this?) I honestly have no idea what kind of speakers to get, brand-wise or type-wise.
Subwoofer-wise..Well, to be honest, I want to go for clarity and quality sound over just loud bass you can hear 5 miles away. I was tthinking one 12" sub (ported or sealed? Argh) Would be sufficient for me. I've seen some people with Kicker solo-baric L-7s and I always thought they sounded great, and looked nice too. I was wondering if one of these would be an idea, as I can get it already in a ported box. Amp-wise...again, honestly have no idea. Bleh.
As you can see, I need a lot of help. I'm considering this a learning experience...I gotta start somewhere. Sorry for such a long post, and I hope I'm not being overbearing here or anything. Well, any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm hoping to get this done within a month or two. Thanks :)
Replies (11)
Victor on 11/17/2004 23:27:57
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ how many do u wanna spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
ttocs on 11/18/2004 00:25:11
welcome to the forum...
You do not need much power for a 3 inch speaker. I would run the dash speakers off of the deck power, and get a good 4 channel amp for the rest of the mids and highs, possably a 5 channel if you want an all-in-one package to pwr a sub as well....
Descent on 11/18/2004 06:38:42
I'm thinking of spending around 2,000 or so, total. Give or take a few hundred.
And if I use a 4 channel amp, what RCA input would I hook that to on my head unit? Front or rear?
Also, can I get some advice on what kind of speakers to get? I really have no idea.
swez on 11/18/2004 07:42:52
Alpine makes a very nice setup all the way around. HU, Amps, Subs and speakers. The Kenwood eXelon series is also a good HU. But if you went all Alpine, the system would be smoother to install. (better systems integration)
AMP: The 5 Channel MRV-F450 is a very good option.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-5zpMkaf5c1P/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?
g=120&I=500MRVF450&search=alpine&wmsf=1
A little web shopping can bring the price down closer to $350.00
Speakers: As mentioned before, the 3" dash speakers can be powered off the HU amplifiers. The won't take a lot of power or bass. In fact, using bass blocking filters would be a good idea. A 3" speaker would be fine for midrange and do highs pretty well too. we can discuss that in detail, when choosing your speakers.
The 6" door speakers up front are the key to quality sound in the front stage of your ride. You can go with quality Component (2-way) or coaxials. It looks like you can use 5.25" - 6.75" speakers in the front doors.
The rear speakers for most SQ guys are usually low power, but high efficiency versions. They can be run off the HU amps or amped separately if you so desire. They can either be Midbass or full range, depending on your preferences.
Finally, a single 10-12" SUB is plenty here. Enough bump to know you are getting the lower 2 octaves of bass (30-60 Hz) that are now missing in your stock system. The F450 amp has a modest, but respectable 200 RMS @ 4 ohms. A decent ported or sealed sub with modeate power handling will do a fine job. This one comes to mind in Alpine gear: SWE-1241 (200 RMS, 4 ohm SVC)
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-5zpMkaf5c1P/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=67700&I=500SWE1241&search=alpine&wmsf=1
OK, there's a good primer to start with. Picking interior speakers can be a tough choice. If you went with good Component speakers up front, consider:
1. CDT CL-61a
http://www.thezeb.com/p-CDT-Audio-CL-61A-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-101083.htm
2. MA Audio Comps Y3K6C
http://www.thezeb.com/p-MA-Audio-Y3K6C-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-102801.htm
Either of these offerings will be superior to what you have now.
Comments?
Swez
Descent on 11/18/2004 18:46:59
Alright, thanks for the replies..
Swez-
Okay, based on what you said, I don't think a 5 channel amp would be the best bet for me. I found this...now, I don't know if Kicker makes good amps or not, but it looked promising-
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-gBs7lBxdpYi/cgi-bin/prodgroup.asp?g=120&avf=Y&nvpair=AG%5FNumber%5Fof%5FChannels%7CFF3%40Channel
I was thinking, maybe, I could power the two 6 1/2" speakers and the sub with that amp, and the dash and rear deck speakers off the HU?
The component system sounds like a good idea, only, I have no idea how to mount tweeters :( And I'm assuming the crossovers aren't that difficult, just wire them in between the amp and the speakers? Out of the two you linked too, I think I like the MA Audio speakers better.
Looking at the sub description, I see entry level and it just makes me wince. lol. I know it's probably not an indication to the quality, but still. And, I don't know if I'm just jaded, but 200W seems rather weak? Looking at the amp I posted earlier, it says it will run at 420W at 2 ohms...Is it possible to run a 4 ohm sub at 2 ohms? I really have no idea what I'm talking about...I read up on a few articles on Ohms law and wahtnot, just hasn't clicked yet :) If that's the case, I was wondering if you could recommend a more powerful sub. Another thing about that, if you buy an enclosure and sub together, is that a good or bad idea? Cause I'm not too good at working with wood (metal's more my thing) and I don't know how well I could fabricate an enclosure.
Also, about the Alpine stuff..I had an Alpine HU in one of my older cars...I just never liked it too much so I've kinda shyed away from them.
And also, about the rear deck speakers, there's no hole in the rear deck with a speaker grille, they're just mounted to the back of it. I'm not sure if I need to buy a certain kind of speaker so they don't slam into the rear deck when playing.
Thanks a lot for the help man :) I really appreciate it, and any future help you may give.
swez on 11/19/2004 13:44:37
Interesting... that amp I have never seen, but it definitely has potential. Yes, Kicker makes a fine amp too.
The 2 channel section has enough power to run a good set of Comps. The sub section has enough power to give you a bit more bass than the 5 channel amp mentioned earlier. (about +3dB more bass)
As for mounting the tweeters, many tweeters can be surface mounted to the door panels, above the Midrange speaker. The crossovers are usually easy to wire, but also bulky. Some fit well into the door panels while others fit best under the dash. Either is acceptable. MA Audio makes some pretty good products too.
Subs: There are many fine subs out there to choose from. The one I mentioned is entry level on power, but not quality or performance. If you want a 2 ohm sub (YES) consider a 4+4 DVC style sub. This type of sub will give you a 2 ohm load when both coils are wired parallel to the amp.
More about subs:
There are 3 primary types of subs used in car audio today.
1. SPL - High efficiency subs (+90dB @ 1 watt or higher) that take a lot of power and put out high SPL with moderate power amps. Audiobahn, Kicker, Earthquake, Rockford, MA Audio and many others too.
2. SQ - Medium efficiency subs (87-89dB @ 1 watt) that are designed more for high definition bass response. Very accurate, can take a lot of power, but very linear or near flat response curves. Adire Audio, e-Designs, Resonance Engineering, JL, Focal and many others too.
3. SQL - This is a blend of both high definition bass and good SPL power handling. These are favored by many who demand high power output, but also have solid performance in the entire bass band range. (30 - 100 Hz typ.) Alpine, Infinity, JBL, JL and many others.
In short, pick out a category you are most interested in. Then we can do some research to find the right sub for your application. It will need to handle between 350-500 watts RMS of power. if you go with that Kicker amp. (good choice too)
The rear & dash speakers will play a small role in the overall sound of your new system. Since they are powered by HU amps, you may wish to leave them as is for now. Most stock OEM speakers are designed for low power applications, good efficiency but, limitedfrequency response. They can usually handle 15-25 watts of power well. However, these are primarily "fill in the gaps" application type speakers.
A typical 6x9 will deliver decent MB/MR performance with only minimal bass output. The 3" dash speakers may be useful as front stage "ambient fill". They cannot do bass or MB well, but should handle MR frequencies adequately. That's why I recommend bass blocking filters on them. More on that as we get there. Don't wish to overwhelm you all at once.
Finally, HU's and features are very much a personal choice. Just make sure you use a quality brand name that has enough features to be useful, but not so many gadgets, they become hard to operate and the price can get pretty spendy too.
Your move... where to next?
Swez
USFLAG Support our troops!
Descent on 11/19/2004 20:27:09
Okay, well, I met Victor in the chat room, and he helped me a lot, so I may have some semi-final choices on the components. Some things have changed, to please bear with me :)
HU - http://www.epinions.com/pr-Kenwood_KDC-X979_In-Dash_CD_Player/display_~full_specs
Sub - http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/12w6v2.html
Hope to get a sealed box for this. I have no woodworking tools, so I'm not sure how to go about it.
Amp for sub - http://www.epinions.com/pr-Alpine_MRD-M301_150W_x_1_Car_Amp_Mono_Subwoofer_Amps_Car_Audio_Amplifier/display_~full_specs
Component speakers for door - http://www.thezeb.com/p-MA-Audio-Y3K6C-6-1-2-inch-Component-System-102801.htm
Amp for comps - http://www.epinions.com/pr-MA_Audio_HK797_Car_Audio_Amplifier/display_~full_specs
Dash speakers - http://www.crutchfield.com/S-FXm0hOEjdFz/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=51100&I=108325CF
Now, I'm not sure if I want to replace my rear deck speakers, as they still sound decent, and would save me a lot of headaches not replacing them. I'm just not sure what effect not replacing them would off on the overall sound of the system.
Well, I guess that's a pretty good update. Comments, anyone?
Victor on 11/19/2004 23:26:37
hey.. this wud be a nice amp other than the alpine monobloc.. but if u use this along with the MA 2ch amp u may have to do atleast battery upgrades..( and alternator upgrade if there is a lot of headlight dimming)..
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLBP6001Z?ref=deal
using this proven amp will be a bit tricky cuase u will have to set the amp gain right..as it give 600wrms @2ohms and the sub can take 400wrms.. but as we were discussing on another post those extra 200wrms if handled properly can be very useful for much clear sound...
lets see what the other guys have to between these options.. and suggest some of theri own if they got some nice trick up their sleve..
comments...??
Victor...
Descent on 11/20/2004 15:39:27
Descent on 11/20/2004 15:41:01
I have a quick question, but no one is in chat, so here goes-
I was pretty sure I had decided on the Alpine MRD-M301 amp for the sub. It has 350W rms at 2 ohms. The JL audio sub I'm getting has a rating of 400W rms...I was wondering if this amp would be a better choice?
http://www.epinions.com/Kicker_Class_D_Subwoofer_Amplifier_02KX4001__Amplifiers_02KX4001/display_~full_specs
Comments, anyone? :)
swez on 11/20/2004 21:04:38
Yes, that would be a good choice for your system too. Has ability to handle a 5 volt input signal, subsonic filtering and adequate power too. This will do a good job!
Swez
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