JL AUDIO Help Please!!

by madman76
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Hello, I am new to these forums. I have Rockford fosgate 800a2 amp. I am unsure what is the best way to wire 3 JL AUDIO 10's to the amp. The problem I have is that 2 of the 10's are w3d4 dual voice coil. Then I have another one at it is a w6 dual voice coil. I went to JL AUDIOS website and looked at the spec sheets. I am confused because it looks as though the w6 see's different values than the w3's. So my question is how do I wire all 3 to the rockford amp so that it will be a 2ohms. I mean is it going to be impossible to do because of the w6? Will it hurt something if I wire them in series? Thank you so much for your time.


Replies (18)
UKinstaller on 11/16/2004 20:12:26
sorry bud, but this has no-no written all over it. i see 2 big problems with this setup.

i used to have the same amp, and if gave me problems with overheating and going into protect mode when trying to run at 2 ohms. other people that i know that have had it have had the same problem. the other problem with this is that you can't wire the three of those up to 4 ohms, so you will have to net an 8 ohm load somehow. one of the other golds can get back to you on that one.

perhaps the biggest problem is that this setup is going to be grossly underpowered. i think you will be pushing either 200 or 400 watts RMS if you decide to use this setup, and the three speakers combined net somewhere around 900 watts RMS.

if it were me, i would either run just the W6, or the two W3's. A W3 running to each channel would sound real good, it would match up almost perfect.

unless there is another wiring option for putting the 3 subs on there, you really can't safely run this setup. experiment with both and see what happens.

-UK




uochronos on 11/16/2004 22:02:01
i agree with UK the whole way here. this has big problems writen on it.

Chronos


madman76 on 11/16/2004 22:57:42
Thank you for the information. Maybe then what I could do is just put the 800a2 to the highs in stereo @ 4ohms it would be 400 watts, that would be good for the highs then I could maybe get a 500/1 or 1000/1 JLAudio mono amp to power the 10's. But what info I am really after is what value will I or Can I run using the w3' and the w6. I'm hoping 2ohms or maybe even 1ohm


uochronos on 11/16/2004 23:02:03
ok 4+4 is either 8 or 2 ohm right? 8+8+8 is 2.33ohm. that well work but wont give full power,. the realy problem is you dont know what ohmage the W6 is if its now a 4+4 VC then thats a big problem.. now the amp overheating could be an issue too..

chronos

UKinstaller on 11/16/2004 23:35:15
a JL 500/1 would be ideal for your W3 10's, they are actually built to work together exactly like that.

it is gonna sound bad if you have that monstrous W6 and the W3's together. i can't think of the word i'm looking for here, maybe it's imaging, ah i can't remember. it will not sound good though. you want to try to match up all your subs. a W6 is at least twice as powerful as a W3.

what kind of front and rear speakers do you have?? you are gonna need some pretty hefty ones if you plan on putting 100 watts to each speaker. but then if you plan on just running them in 8 ohm or whatever, you are wasting an awesome 800 watt amp.

if it were me, i would run the two w3's, or the one W6, and just use your rockford amp. that way you don't have to buy anything new.

comments??

-UK

madman76 on 11/16/2004 23:54:54
I'm sorry for asking so many questions but I just need to know if I understand this. the w3's have two voice coils 4 ohms each so its 8 ohms per w3. And the w6 two 3 ohm voice coils if im not mistaken. So if that is true then it would be 8+8+6 . so that would be around 2 ohms or maybe a lil higher like 2.12 ohms? Also in regards to the over heating. I had a soundstream reference 500. I had wired to 3 12 w6's. It was at 1ohms. It too overheated very often because of the 1ohm load. It even blew up a few times and I had to send it in for repair. Then after the second time getting fixed I decided to see if maybe it was overheating because it wasent getting the right voltage from my battery and cap. It turned out that it was running at like a low 11.7 volts or something not even 12 volts. So I upgraded my battery and installed a volt meter on dash and It performed like it was supose to and It never overheated again. Could that have been the same problem with the 800a2?

When you say that the w6 is twice as powerfull as the w3. If there all in seperate boxes would it still be a problem? Thank you again for your time on this. I mean I could see how if the w3 and w6 were in the same chamber and competing against each other would be a problem cause it would over extend the w3's, but if there in seperate boxes does it matter?

Im really think that it will sound louder if I can find a way to get all 3 wired safley. I use to have 3 jl w6's but cant fit them in my new car.


UKinstaller on 11/17/2004 00:27:23
nope, the 800a2 just can't handle two ohms without running into problems and running VERY hot.

CANCELLATION. that's the word i was looking for earlier. you will experience cancellation because the subs sound very different. and the only way you will safely run the three sub setup is if you wire it in series, which will underpower each sub drastically and more than likely shorten their lives.

-UK

uochronos on 11/17/2004 00:28:18
the 8+8+6 ohm is noty a good idea the lower ohm sub would get more power which would already over power the smaller subs. if subs producing the same frequencies play at differnt volumes its going tosound wiered perhaps even have some cancelation.

not sure exactly the technical\s behind this well have to wait for swez on that i think.

Chronos

Victor on 11/17/2004 09:12:41
A few things to keep in mind...

The amp u stated is not 2ohms stable in bridged mode..so you cannot go low to that load.. u have to run it on 4ohms which will give 800wrms in bridged mode..

and the same power in stereo mode if u run it at 2ohms per channel and get 400rms per channel...

There is no need to confuse yourself with the W6.. let it sit around idle in your room .. u can use it when u get a better amp..i looked aroud on the JL site.. i cud not find a w6 with dual 3ohms voice coil.. they are either 2+2...4+4.. or 6+6... please send a link to the 3+3 if u got one..

Please give us the complete specs on each sub and the amp u got.. it will be very useful..

regarding cancellation problems.. they usually occour due to difference in phase.. not due to same or different frequencies...

so i feel the better plan of action wud be to wire the 2 VC of the w3 in parallel to give a load of 2 ohms and then wire each of the w3 to each channel..

or bridge the amp and wire the VC of both the individual subs in parallel to give 2ohms each and then wire them in parallel to give total 4ohms load...

in first option u will get stereo sound and the second one will be a mono.
..........................................................................................................................

i am wiriting another reply after this.. its pertaining to fundamentals of series and parallel wiring..so read it carefully..

comments...??

Victor...

Victor on 11/17/2004 09:15:44
a small correction..

the option 2 i gave has to be..

bridge the amp and wire the VC of both the subs in parallel to give 2ohms per sub and then wire the subs in "SERIES" to add upto a total of 4ohms load to the amp..

sorry for the minor mistake( a bigger one actually)

comments...??

Victor...

UKinstaller on 11/17/2004 09:18:55
both the W6 and W7 are 3 ohm subs. weird huh?? i definitely agree with the wiring option you mentioned in the post above this one. that would your best bet.

-UK

Victor on 11/17/2004 09:35:59
hey uk// come in the chat room... we can discuss about this post in a better manner there..

madman76 on 11/17/2004 11:22:09
Thx victor for the information. I was going to prove you wrong when you said this amp is 800x1 @ 4ohms then I went to look up specs and DoH!!

The Rockford Fosgate 800aII is an amp that is far underrated.
From inspection of several amps, I have found that most are
actually rated between 950-1100 watts (at 14.4volts).

This is a 2 channel amplifier, with the following specs:
200 x 2 @ 4ohms
400 x 2 @ 2ohms
800 x 1 @ 4ohms (mono)

For typical uses, this amp packs a lot of punch. There is plenty of
power for your subwoofers. These are high-current amplifiers, and
will easily handle high-voltage RCA outputs (such as 4v and 5v).
The bass is clear and undistorted, and the bass boost function works
very well as long as it is not overused.

The crossovers in the amp leave something to be desired. Even with
the low-pass filters set extremely low, some highs seemed to seep through.

A few drawbacks of this amplifier:
1) This amp is NOT 1 ohm stable. That means, if you want
to run 4ohm speakers in parallel in bridged mode, the amp
will heat up and shut down. Thus, you will never see 800x2
into your subs.
2) The control panels are covered by the side panels, which are
allen-wrenched on. Once you setup this amp, it is not very
convenient to change the settings.
3) The tri-mode setup for the amp ( 3 subs ) does not seem
as efficient as it should be.
4) Several returns on this product have indicated that the amp
tends to heat up quite easily, and should be set at a reasonable
gain level. The amp should never be run below 2ohms if you
plan on keeping it for a long time.

Overall, this amp is good for people who want to power 2 subwoofers,
each with an 8 ohm impedance. I have listened to this amp with
several different subwoofers (Punch DVC, Vega 124, IDQ 12", more)
and it provides plenty of juice, even for the more inefficient
subs.


So basicly Im starting to realize that this amp is a good amp if you wanted to power say 1 15 because it runs 800 watts at 4ohms its not really designed for mulitple woofers (High Reference)

So now im thinking of going a whole other route. Do you guys think I could fit maybe 1 15 in the back of my 97 mustang convertable? Of course the spare tire would be removed and im thinking having the 15 hit down into the box. I heard a eclipse once that this setup and it was very loud. But it also was a hatchback so it might not sound right without the hatch. I dunno im confused now. Here is all the equipment I have to work with and I am literaly out of money now so I would have to sell or trade some of the equipment I have at this point. here goes.


PPI 4ch 100x4 (The old style PPI)
800a2 Rockford Fossgate
2 10 JL AUDIO W3D4's
1 10 JL AUDIO W6
4 6x8 JL AUDIO 3 way
Clarion Deck
Earthquake PreAmp EQ

So I guess the mismatch is the fact that the rockford is not a high reference amp. So I guess I either trade or sell the 800a2 and get a high reference amp, or I trade or sell the 10's and Get maybe 1 comp driver that can handle the 800 watts.

What Idea would you guys recommend?
Thank you

uochronos on 11/17/2004 15:31:52
ya this is defiantly a nice amp hopefully we did not give you the idea we where saying it was not. just not the best amp to hook 3 subs up to that you have..

btw thanks victor it was a late night last night i didnt even realize it was a 4 ohm stable amp when bridged.. thought escaped my mind. anyway that definatly maeks this set up a no no.

honesltly you could fit a single 800wat 12" or 15" in your trunk i would think easily. however why not try the 2 W3 in there by themselves and see if that is enough. if you already have them why not see if they are pleasing to you. i heard a set up with 3 w3 woofers and a 1000watt amp it was killer. loud as hell and clear.

Chronos

Victor on 11/17/2004 15:51:39
i agree.. dont hurry up and buy a new amp or subs.. experiment with what u have.. i feel u will get nearly the desired result from the present equipment u have .. provided u set it up properly.. and take great pain in making the enclosures for the subs..

comments...??

Victor...

swez on 11/18/2004 09:15:10
The amp you have is a solid performer, as are the subs mentioned.

The 10W3v2 come in a 4+4 DVC and the power chart says they will take 400 RMS per sub. Just be sure your enclosure is not too large or the cones will reach X-max (over-excursion) well before the amp is up to full power... BAD FOR SUBS!!!

You have a few options in wiring them to your RF 800a2.

1. Run one sub per amp channel (2 ohms in parallel)

2. Can bridge this amp and wire each sub for 8 ohms, then both subs in series for a net 4 ohms to bridged amp

3. If you ran all 3 woofers (wired series) 8+8+12, then paralleled all subs, the net load would be 3 ohms. Can this amp handle a 3 ohm load in bridged mode? It's not designed for that load in MONO, but witrh additional cooling fans, it might work out.

The main issue I see is that the W6 (6+6 DVC) will be getting less power than the other 2 subs. Is that a big problem? Not really. The question is, will the amp handle a 3 ohm load in MONO??? Not recommended... but some have done it with adequate amp cooling.

My recommendation is to just use the 10W3's as noted above and hold on to the W6 for later use or sell. The best setup here, would be 3 W6v2 subs (6+6 DVC's). Each is wired for 12 ohms per sub (series) and then all in parallel for a perfect 4 ohm load. Each sub will see 33% of total output watts off this amp. Gets expensive having that many 10W6 subs though and not get enough power to drive them to full potentials either.

Hope that helps,
Swez

madman76 on 11/18/2004 12:11:10
Yes, you guys are right. I should just see how the two 10w3's sound. I guess the reason I dont think I would be pleased with the way it sounds is because like I said I use to have 3 12 jl w6's and so I have it installed in my head that I have to at leaset get 3 10's in there. After reading what you guys have said though I realized that even though I did have 3 12 jl audio w6 before. I wasent even providing enough power to them. I was running a reference 500 amp at 1ohm to all 3 and that means that they were only seeing a 1/4 of the power they should have. So now im thinking that maybe the 2 10's will suprise me and sound just like the 12's did becuase there is correct power to em. :) Thank you very much you all have been very helpfull.

I will let you know how it turns out! I have one more question to ask if I may. POWER how do I get 14 volts to the amp? Do I have to buy a transformer or something? Or a special battery? Or does any car battery run at 14 vots. I think they run at 12 if im not mistaken. Thanks again

uochronos on 11/18/2004 12:56:11
while turned off your battery puts out almost exactly 12volts... but whle running the alternator put out between 12-14.5 volts. most cars put out around 13-13.5volts while running. no realy way i know of except maybe getting a special altternator. which would not be worth it 1 volt only gains you one watt of out put per 1 amo of power input. so even at high volume you would probaly only gain maybe 70-80watts not a noticable increase at high volume.

Chronos



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