my Girl has two kenwood 12's but she's not running a good amp to them and so i was wondering how do kenwood subs sound spl wise (this ones different from my girls her's are like a blueish purble color) but ive been looking at this one
http://www.justkenwood.co.uk/speakers01/kfcw1205db.asp
woukd that be a good sub or would the PA FBX 12 be better?
http://www.cardomain.com/sku/POWFBX15
Replies (15)
Victor on 11/3/2004 14:34:10
if you are looking for SPL... the PA FXB12 would be a better option.. its a DVC so better power handling and its rated at 700wrms.. but if u wanna install 2 of these u wud need a powerful amp.... also you wud surely need to upgrade the cars electrical system..
comments...??
Victor...
uochronos on 11/3/2004 15:10:55
Kenwood subs are not know for SPL really. i have heard a couple set ups but they where all more SQ oriented. they sounded good. although many similar priced brands out do them in both SQ and SPL.
for SPL i think the PA sub is a much better patch..
Victor is correct though 1400watts rms well definatly require alternator and other power system upgrades.
Chronos
ttocs on 11/3/2004 16:16:04
we should not be recommending DCV subs without knowing what amp is pushing them. may do more harm then good........
Victor on 11/3/2004 16:29:37
http://www.cardomain.com/item/SONXSLD125P5
http://www.cardomain.com/item/POWMOFO12
http://www.cardomain.com/item/INFREF1232W
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JVCCSWG1200
http://www.cardomain.com/item/ABNAW1251T
http://www.cardomain.com/item/POLDB124DVC
http://www.cardomain.com/item/KIC03CVR122
http://www.cardomain.com/item/KIC04S12L722
http://www.cardomain.com/item/KIC02S12L54
check these out.. some are SQ grade and some are real SPL monsters.. all in the affordable price range.. and good value for money..
comments...??
Victor...
ttocs on 11/3/2004 17:53:15
I don't know that I have ever put sony or jvc in the SQ or spl arena.........
Again, do we know what amp is running them? Lets not put the cart before the horse.........
Victor on 11/3/2004 23:27:16
kool... i agree.. i shud have gathered more info on the system.. before suggesting any other equipment.. ( I AM STILL LEARNING TO HELP )....regarding sony and jvc.. those days have gone when sony used to over rate their subs and amps.. the new product line is really good and i have personally heard many of them.. i would not defend JVC cause never had any first hand experience with them..
But regarding the new sony product line.. they have improved them way beyond our imagination.. i used to critisize them a year back... but since i have heard and seen their new product range i feel SONY is maturing in the Car Audio market..
comments...??
Victor...
Faded on 11/3/2004 23:40:27
im just wanting one 12 tho and im prolly getting an 820wt amp for it
Faded on 11/4/2004 00:03:37
so for a single sub in a big ported box what sub would give me the most bass from an 820wt amp ive listen to a pair of p2 12's and they had 250wts rms and were one of the loudest systems ive ever heard
uochronos on 11/4/2004 02:27:46
a large ported box well give you the loudest bang for your buck. however the sub sounds sloppier then a smaller box. and many people dislike that. but if your goal is pure SPL then that well defiantly get you there.
Chronos
uochronos on 11/4/2004 02:30:07
PS
victor i check out sonys car audio equipment thinking maybe they did a bought face but the spec's on subs and amps still do not seem up to par with many of the other brands kicking around. amps still seem to be overated. if you have some info on ones that are not i would be very interested in it. i love the look of sony gear hehe but wont use it because of the quality.
Chronos
Victor on 11/4/2004 07:53:17
hmmm.. check out the following products..
WOOFERS
sony XS-L121P5
sony XS-L1290P5
sony XS-LD125P5
AMPS
sony XMD-1000P5
sony XMD-1600P5
HU
sony CDX-F7700
sony CDX-M8800
sony CDX-M9900
what i said was that sony has matured in the car market.. of course it still has to work a lot to beat all the big players ... but it has developed this new product line which is worth its price and a good deal for people on low budget... it offers something different that will satisfy your performance as well as cosmetic needs.
comments...??
Victor...
ttocs on 11/4/2004 11:33:18
they made changes in the rating systems this year to try and get all the manf on the same page. I will say that I have not heard them latley, but until then you are the only person I have heard saying anything good about them. I will try to take a listen, but it would take a miracle I think... They are too conserned with bells and whistles, flashy graphics and such. They have never tried to just sound good.......
Victor on 11/4/2004 14:47:16
hmmm.... well i know its difficult to belive something like this about sony.. but believe me i had the same view a year back.. but now it has changed drastically.. i am not rating them at par with other big names.. but they sure are good products for the price..
anyways.. lets bundle up this discussion and look forward to helping FADED who has originally posted .. i feel we are going away from the main topic of helping him out and suggesting him the right stuff. and are more getting indulged into this "SONY" debate.. we can continue that later.. may be i can post a seperate topic.. but for now we gotta work on some thing else.. sorry for poiting out this to u guys,,
comments...??
Victor...
ttocs on 11/4/2004 15:54:12
agreed....
swez on 11/6/2004 15:36:42
Tell us more about that 820 wt amp you have. What brand/model is it and is 1,2, 4 channel version or other? Also, what fuses are used in the chassis for this amp?
Note:
A good rough estimate of RMS power in a typical JBL class A/B amp is ~10.6A per 100 watts (RMS). So a true 300 (RMS) watt amp will draw: 10.6 x 3 = ~32A. max. (Source voltage is 12.9 VDC)
If we model a JBL Class D amp, the current draw per 100 watts (RMS) is more like 9.6A per 100 watts. So a 300 watt (RMS) amp draws:
9.6 x 3 = ~29A. max. (Source voltage is 12.9 VDC)
===================================================
FYI:
Many of the newer amps are now using a Source voltage of 14.4 VDC to derive their power ratings and current draw. This is part of the new standards being used per CEA-2006 compliance regulations. Here's a nutshell view of what CEA-2006 Compliant means:
CEA-2006 Compliant
"On May 28, 2003, the Consumer Electronics Association published standard CEA-2006, "Testing & Measurement Methods for Mobile Audio Amplifiers."
This "voluntary" standard advocates a uniform method for determining an amplifier's RMS power and signal-to-noise ratio. Using 14.4 volts, RMS watts are measured into a 4-ohm impedance load at 1 percent Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) plus noise, at a frequency range (for general purpose amplifiers) of 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz.
Signal-to-Noise ratio is measured in weighted absolute decibels (dBA) at a reference of 1 watt into 4 ohms. This applies to both external amplifiers and the amplifiers within in-dash receivers.
CEA-2006 allows consumers to be able to compare car amplifiers and receivers on an equal basis. Manufacturers who choose to abide by the new standard are able to stamp their products with the CEA-2006 logo that reads: "Amplifier Power Standard CEA-2006 Compliant."
That's what we will be seeing on all amps and HU's that have "CEA-2006 Compliant" audio devices. Finally, a standard unit of measure to compare apples to apples. Information noted is from CE.org.
==================================================
As we can see, this will change the landscape in rating amps for RMS power and THD (1.0%) with a new voltage standard of 14.4 VDC. If we applied this model to the above mentioned amps, the wattage number will be slightly higher than originally noted. We can anticipate a CEA-2006 compliant amp to be rated about 15% higher than non-compliant amps of an older vintage.
Hope that help someone,
Swez
http://www.justkenwood.co.uk/speakers01/kfcw1205db.asp
woukd that be a good sub or would the PA FBX 12 be better?
http://www.cardomain.com/sku/POWFBX15
Replies (15)
Victor on 11/3/2004 14:34:10
if you are looking for SPL... the PA FXB12 would be a better option.. its a DVC so better power handling and its rated at 700wrms.. but if u wanna install 2 of these u wud need a powerful amp.... also you wud surely need to upgrade the cars electrical system..
comments...??
Victor...
uochronos on 11/3/2004 15:10:55
Kenwood subs are not know for SPL really. i have heard a couple set ups but they where all more SQ oriented. they sounded good. although many similar priced brands out do them in both SQ and SPL.
for SPL i think the PA sub is a much better patch..
Victor is correct though 1400watts rms well definatly require alternator and other power system upgrades.
Chronos
ttocs on 11/3/2004 16:16:04
we should not be recommending DCV subs without knowing what amp is pushing them. may do more harm then good........
Victor on 11/3/2004 16:29:37
http://www.cardomain.com/item/SONXSLD125P5
http://www.cardomain.com/item/POWMOFO12
http://www.cardomain.com/item/INFREF1232W
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JVCCSWG1200
http://www.cardomain.com/item/ABNAW1251T
http://www.cardomain.com/item/POLDB124DVC
http://www.cardomain.com/item/KIC03CVR122
http://www.cardomain.com/item/KIC04S12L722
http://www.cardomain.com/item/KIC02S12L54
check these out.. some are SQ grade and some are real SPL monsters.. all in the affordable price range.. and good value for money..
comments...??
Victor...
ttocs on 11/3/2004 17:53:15
I don't know that I have ever put sony or jvc in the SQ or spl arena.........
Again, do we know what amp is running them? Lets not put the cart before the horse.........
Victor on 11/3/2004 23:27:16
kool... i agree.. i shud have gathered more info on the system.. before suggesting any other equipment.. ( I AM STILL LEARNING TO HELP )....regarding sony and jvc.. those days have gone when sony used to over rate their subs and amps.. the new product line is really good and i have personally heard many of them.. i would not defend JVC cause never had any first hand experience with them..
But regarding the new sony product line.. they have improved them way beyond our imagination.. i used to critisize them a year back... but since i have heard and seen their new product range i feel SONY is maturing in the Car Audio market..
comments...??
Victor...
Faded on 11/3/2004 23:40:27
im just wanting one 12 tho and im prolly getting an 820wt amp for it
Faded on 11/4/2004 00:03:37
so for a single sub in a big ported box what sub would give me the most bass from an 820wt amp ive listen to a pair of p2 12's and they had 250wts rms and were one of the loudest systems ive ever heard
uochronos on 11/4/2004 02:27:46
a large ported box well give you the loudest bang for your buck. however the sub sounds sloppier then a smaller box. and many people dislike that. but if your goal is pure SPL then that well defiantly get you there.
Chronos
uochronos on 11/4/2004 02:30:07
PS
victor i check out sonys car audio equipment thinking maybe they did a bought face but the spec's on subs and amps still do not seem up to par with many of the other brands kicking around. amps still seem to be overated. if you have some info on ones that are not i would be very interested in it. i love the look of sony gear hehe but wont use it because of the quality.
Chronos
Victor on 11/4/2004 07:53:17
hmmm.. check out the following products..
WOOFERS
sony XS-L121P5
sony XS-L1290P5
sony XS-LD125P5
AMPS
sony XMD-1000P5
sony XMD-1600P5
HU
sony CDX-F7700
sony CDX-M8800
sony CDX-M9900
what i said was that sony has matured in the car market.. of course it still has to work a lot to beat all the big players ... but it has developed this new product line which is worth its price and a good deal for people on low budget... it offers something different that will satisfy your performance as well as cosmetic needs.
comments...??
Victor...
ttocs on 11/4/2004 11:33:18
they made changes in the rating systems this year to try and get all the manf on the same page. I will say that I have not heard them latley, but until then you are the only person I have heard saying anything good about them. I will try to take a listen, but it would take a miracle I think... They are too conserned with bells and whistles, flashy graphics and such. They have never tried to just sound good.......
Victor on 11/4/2004 14:47:16
hmmm.... well i know its difficult to belive something like this about sony.. but believe me i had the same view a year back.. but now it has changed drastically.. i am not rating them at par with other big names.. but they sure are good products for the price..
anyways.. lets bundle up this discussion and look forward to helping FADED who has originally posted .. i feel we are going away from the main topic of helping him out and suggesting him the right stuff. and are more getting indulged into this "SONY" debate.. we can continue that later.. may be i can post a seperate topic.. but for now we gotta work on some thing else.. sorry for poiting out this to u guys,,
comments...??
Victor...
ttocs on 11/4/2004 15:54:12
agreed....
swez on 11/6/2004 15:36:42
Tell us more about that 820 wt amp you have. What brand/model is it and is 1,2, 4 channel version or other? Also, what fuses are used in the chassis for this amp?
Note:
A good rough estimate of RMS power in a typical JBL class A/B amp is ~10.6A per 100 watts (RMS). So a true 300 (RMS) watt amp will draw: 10.6 x 3 = ~32A. max. (Source voltage is 12.9 VDC)
If we model a JBL Class D amp, the current draw per 100 watts (RMS) is more like 9.6A per 100 watts. So a 300 watt (RMS) amp draws:
9.6 x 3 = ~29A. max. (Source voltage is 12.9 VDC)
===================================================
FYI:
Many of the newer amps are now using a Source voltage of 14.4 VDC to derive their power ratings and current draw. This is part of the new standards being used per CEA-2006 compliance regulations. Here's a nutshell view of what CEA-2006 Compliant means:
CEA-2006 Compliant
"On May 28, 2003, the Consumer Electronics Association published standard CEA-2006, "Testing & Measurement Methods for Mobile Audio Amplifiers."
This "voluntary" standard advocates a uniform method for determining an amplifier's RMS power and signal-to-noise ratio. Using 14.4 volts, RMS watts are measured into a 4-ohm impedance load at 1 percent Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) plus noise, at a frequency range (for general purpose amplifiers) of 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz.
Signal-to-Noise ratio is measured in weighted absolute decibels (dBA) at a reference of 1 watt into 4 ohms. This applies to both external amplifiers and the amplifiers within in-dash receivers.
CEA-2006 allows consumers to be able to compare car amplifiers and receivers on an equal basis. Manufacturers who choose to abide by the new standard are able to stamp their products with the CEA-2006 logo that reads: "Amplifier Power Standard CEA-2006 Compliant."
That's what we will be seeing on all amps and HU's that have "CEA-2006 Compliant" audio devices. Finally, a standard unit of measure to compare apples to apples. Information noted is from CE.org.
==================================================
As we can see, this will change the landscape in rating amps for RMS power and THD (1.0%) with a new voltage standard of 14.4 VDC. If we applied this model to the above mentioned amps, the wattage number will be slightly higher than originally noted. We can anticipate a CEA-2006 compliant amp to be rated about 15% higher than non-compliant amps of an older vintage.
Hope that help someone,
Swez
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