I am about to install two 12" woofers in a sealed box with separate chambers. I was wondering if mounting the subs with the cones pointing towards the inside of the box (basket outside) poses any problems. I have sealed the box with silicone and powdercoated the outside, and will use rope caulk to seal the sub to enclosure gaps. CAN THIS BE DONE? Thanks in advance for any responses. SMILE
Replies (11)
uochronos on 10/14/2004 00:51:59
sure it can however the magnet well attract every little bit of iron anywhere neear it and after about a couple months probaly not look attractive hehe.
P0werLifter on 10/14/2004 13:02:39
The type of design is called a "free air" design and has its drawbacks and pro's. We had a fairly large topic on this we all discussed a while back and one of the guys from the board knows his stuff on it. Personally i havnt done much with free air type designs nor do i wish to. But they look pretty cool, Go to this link and read up on it
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?g2089_785
swez on 10/14/2004 20:10:58
Many have tried this and claim good audio performance in doing so. However, the more we have sticking out of the box and unprotected, the more likely you'll have a damage speaker from loose objects in the vehicle.
Also, if the magnet structures are very large and heavy, the box will be out of balance and very awkward to install. The box may rock or tip while driving which can severely damage the woofers. Bolting the box into the trunk bed is an option... but for my 2 cents, better to install the subs so the mass (magnets/basket) are inside the box and use grill covers to protect the cones.
Swez
Victor on 10/16/2004 17:01:07
my first question wud be.. why do u wanna do it?.. is it for aesthetic purpose or do u think that it would perform better...? ( dude, i am gonna write lots so read patiently).. well lemme explain how any speaker works.. when the speaker is in the positive phase the come moves upwards and when in negative phase it moves back wards... if u install the woofers the way u want to.. the the only difference in sound would be that there wud be a phase difference of 90` .. u can solve the problem by inverting the wiring connection.. Personally i wud not suggest this kind of installation because there is a high rish of damaging the subs.. i wud also point out ( sorry for that) but Powerlifter mentioned this kind of installation as free air installation... i feel he is wrong.. if the box has no port in it... and the speakers are installed in inverted position then it is nothing but a sealed enclosure.. and if there is a port then its a ported enclosure.. It is in no ways free air installation.. "FREE AIR" also called "INFINITE BAFFLE"
uochronos on 10/16/2004 22:00:55
ya i think PL didnt quite read this one all the way threw you defiantly caught him there victor hehe.
anyway i think its pretty much all of us saying its not going to perform beter and it well cause problems.... only time i have ever installed this way was for a friend whos sub was too deep to fit the box so we mounted it this way so he didnt need a new box. howevere it collected all kinds of crap to the magnet and inside the spider area.
Chronos
P0werLifter on 10/17/2004 03:21:15
My mistake i was reading and replying to posts to fast that day, didnt let the post sink in
jfin515 on 10/17/2004 18:19:36
Hey all, thanks for the replies. The reason behind mounting the subs outside is purely an asthetic thing. I'm not looking to improve SQ or SPL at all, just trying to make it all look cool and sound great at the same time. Sounds like my biggest issue will be keeping the magnets clean and protected. I hooked one up to a friends amp and it sounded great to me, so I don't think my initial worry of severely decreased SQ or SPL is an issue. Question for Victor, how does this change the phase of the sub by 90deg? when you invert the sub, wouldn't you effectively invert the phase i.e. 180deg?
uochronos on 10/17/2004 21:34:47
as long as your subs and mids are not playing the same notes i doubt you would hear it ebing out of phase. but if you did hooking it up like victor said well clear that up
keeping the magnet clean well be very hard. also the whole motor structure of the sub well be open to easy damage. but it your sub. either way it well sound basicaly identical.
Victor on 10/17/2004 22:22:57
i am extremely sorry... u know sometimes thinks tend to skip out..hehehe.. ya u r right the phase shift will be 180'.....
Relax_The_Mind on 10/18/2004 10:51:38
I have mine mounted in this fashion. No problems whatsoever. Inverting them almost gave me the full extra .8 cu f that i needed. This is a common practice even in and especially in pro audio where they even mix and match normal and inverted subs. Saying that it changes the performance of a speaker is saying that a speakers in and out excursions are different which is false.
Many subs come with mounting rings to do this .
There are a few drawbacks to mounting them this way of course is the obvious stuff getting inside there and just about every tool you try to use around it getting smacked right onto the magnet.
Another one is many subwoofer cones (paper) are not treated on the back so moisture and sun damage can play a big factor.
So if the dont get direct sunlight and you dont let it rain in your car you will be fine.
Yes as Victor stated, it is not a free air design. Its sealed
here is a pic:
Where the trunk used to be in my camaro...and yes it is bolted down. hehe
Faded on 10/19/2004 23:46:42
thats an awsome looking setup i have two audiobahn 10's in a sealed box and there fliped around like that it sounds pretty good for two little 300wt tens your supposed to wire it diff if you do that tho the neg to the pos and the pos to the neg
Replies (11)
uochronos on 10/14/2004 00:51:59
sure it can however the magnet well attract every little bit of iron anywhere neear it and after about a couple months probaly not look attractive hehe.
P0werLifter on 10/14/2004 13:02:39
The type of design is called a "free air" design and has its drawbacks and pro's. We had a fairly large topic on this we all discussed a while back and one of the guys from the board knows his stuff on it. Personally i havnt done much with free air type designs nor do i wish to. But they look pretty cool, Go to this link and read up on it
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?g2089_785
swez on 10/14/2004 20:10:58
Many have tried this and claim good audio performance in doing so. However, the more we have sticking out of the box and unprotected, the more likely you'll have a damage speaker from loose objects in the vehicle.
Also, if the magnet structures are very large and heavy, the box will be out of balance and very awkward to install. The box may rock or tip while driving which can severely damage the woofers. Bolting the box into the trunk bed is an option... but for my 2 cents, better to install the subs so the mass (magnets/basket) are inside the box and use grill covers to protect the cones.
Swez
Victor on 10/16/2004 17:01:07
my first question wud be.. why do u wanna do it?.. is it for aesthetic purpose or do u think that it would perform better...? ( dude, i am gonna write lots so read patiently).. well lemme explain how any speaker works.. when the speaker is in the positive phase the come moves upwards and when in negative phase it moves back wards... if u install the woofers the way u want to.. the the only difference in sound would be that there wud be a phase difference of 90` .. u can solve the problem by inverting the wiring connection.. Personally i wud not suggest this kind of installation because there is a high rish of damaging the subs.. i wud also point out ( sorry for that) but Powerlifter mentioned this kind of installation as free air installation... i feel he is wrong.. if the box has no port in it... and the speakers are installed in inverted position then it is nothing but a sealed enclosure.. and if there is a port then its a ported enclosure.. It is in no ways free air installation.. "FREE AIR" also called "INFINITE BAFFLE"
uochronos on 10/16/2004 22:00:55
ya i think PL didnt quite read this one all the way threw you defiantly caught him there victor hehe.
anyway i think its pretty much all of us saying its not going to perform beter and it well cause problems.... only time i have ever installed this way was for a friend whos sub was too deep to fit the box so we mounted it this way so he didnt need a new box. howevere it collected all kinds of crap to the magnet and inside the spider area.
Chronos
P0werLifter on 10/17/2004 03:21:15
My mistake i was reading and replying to posts to fast that day, didnt let the post sink in
jfin515 on 10/17/2004 18:19:36
Hey all, thanks for the replies. The reason behind mounting the subs outside is purely an asthetic thing. I'm not looking to improve SQ or SPL at all, just trying to make it all look cool and sound great at the same time. Sounds like my biggest issue will be keeping the magnets clean and protected. I hooked one up to a friends amp and it sounded great to me, so I don't think my initial worry of severely decreased SQ or SPL is an issue. Question for Victor, how does this change the phase of the sub by 90deg? when you invert the sub, wouldn't you effectively invert the phase i.e. 180deg?
uochronos on 10/17/2004 21:34:47
as long as your subs and mids are not playing the same notes i doubt you would hear it ebing out of phase. but if you did hooking it up like victor said well clear that up
keeping the magnet clean well be very hard. also the whole motor structure of the sub well be open to easy damage. but it your sub. either way it well sound basicaly identical.
Victor on 10/17/2004 22:22:57
i am extremely sorry... u know sometimes thinks tend to skip out..hehehe.. ya u r right the phase shift will be 180'.....
Relax_The_Mind on 10/18/2004 10:51:38
I have mine mounted in this fashion. No problems whatsoever. Inverting them almost gave me the full extra .8 cu f that i needed. This is a common practice even in and especially in pro audio where they even mix and match normal and inverted subs. Saying that it changes the performance of a speaker is saying that a speakers in and out excursions are different which is false.
Many subs come with mounting rings to do this .
There are a few drawbacks to mounting them this way of course is the obvious stuff getting inside there and just about every tool you try to use around it getting smacked right onto the magnet.
Another one is many subwoofer cones (paper) are not treated on the back so moisture and sun damage can play a big factor.
So if the dont get direct sunlight and you dont let it rain in your car you will be fine.
Yes as Victor stated, it is not a free air design. Its sealed
here is a pic:
Where the trunk used to be in my camaro...and yes it is bolted down. hehe
Faded on 10/19/2004 23:46:42
thats an awsome looking setup i have two audiobahn 10's in a sealed box and there fliped around like that it sounds pretty good for two little 300wt tens your supposed to wire it diff if you do that tho the neg to the pos and the pos to the neg
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