Ive heard from a couple of friends of mine that they are pretty decent, i wanna get a single 12w6v2 for my truck and get rid of my kappa perfects. any opinions or suggestions as to an amp that would push the JL audio sub the best? i got about a grand to spend on amp and sub.
Replies (13)
ttocs on 10/9/2004 22:51:38
they have had some issues here and there but i would still call them a solid amp. New or old amp?
Tinker18 on 10/10/2004 00:24:07
new---this is the model # ss-ega900d
Opinions?
swez on 10/10/2004 11:21:57
Strong amp here bud. 900 RMS @ 1 ohm, 450 @ 2 ohms. Current draw will be high at full power too. Fuses 30 x 3. SoundStream is definitely a high end amp. The Edge series is more or less the entry level amp in thier lineup. I think this amp can be had for under $300.00 off the net.
Subs:
Yes, you can use a single JL 12W6v2. It can handle 450 RMS as this only comes in 4+4 DVC version. That will allow the amp to draw a bit less current than if running a 1 ohm load.
The W7 series subs may be an option if you want to spend that much. However, these are 3 ohm DVC's. The best you can do is 1.5 ohms minimum load or about 700 RMS to the sub. Not bad though.
Have you ever looked at the Adire Brahma? At $379.00, this is a brute performer. Have a look and consider the 3" voice coil, 2+2 DVC (1/4 ohm wiring) and can handle well ober 900 RMS too. Well designed for small enclosure too. Have a look:
http://www.adireaudio.com/TextPages/BrahmaSubsPageFrameText.htm
Swez
Tinker18 on 10/10/2004 18:11:26
that brahma sub looks nice also, but i couldnt find the amount of space it would need in a sealed enclosure, remember, its gotta fit behind my seats. with the soundstream amp, will i still be able to use it with my current alt, or will i have to upgrade it?
swez on 10/10/2004 19:06:43
Have a look at this chart. It shows Power input in different size sealed enclosures and Qtc performance curves.
Note: A Qtc of .707 is a good all around SQL performance curve. Good low end bass and good power handling. For a 12" Brahma, your sealed box will need to be about 0.9 cf internally and take 900 RMS to reach X-max (full excursion) at ~30 Hz. Not bad for a small sealed enclosure huh?
The higher the Qtc value, the more power the sub can handle, but less low end (thundering bass) The smaller the Qtc. (under 0.6) the box will be larger and more deep bass. But, we need less RMS power to reach X-max due to the larger box.
http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/BrahmaPowerHandling.pdf
Swez
Tinker18 on 10/10/2004 23:49:45
ok, as always you have an answer for everything, which is great, but what about my electrical system, will it need an upgrade as far as the alternator for the amp or would i be ok leaving the 105 amp alternator on my truck?
uochronos on 10/11/2004 03:45:48
a 600watt amp is about trhe biggest you can go before you well get dimming. at full volume a 600watt amp well pull 50amps or so. and you need around 50amps to run all the stock stuff.
so if you get mroe then 600watts rms worth of amps plan to upgrade electricals. if you get more then 800watts rms or so you probly well have no choice but to upgrade
Chronos
swez on 10/11/2004 07:37:17
With that amp and 900 RMS... definitely need more ALT/BAT power to run this bad boy. Remember... 30x3 fuses = 90A max current draw. That leaves 15A for the rest of your car to operate. Not enough if you run the bass hard a lot.
Looking ahead, if you amp the interior speakers, that will call for even more juice from the ALT/BAT. The car needs between 50-60A to operate all primary electricals. That's your baseline for power needs. Then add up current draw from amps to determine the ALT size you will need. I would say a 150A ALT will power the sub amp and such. But if you add a strong 4 channel, that's an additional 35-60A's to the load.
Think it through, as this install can make you cash poor for a long time.
Swez
Tinker18 on 10/11/2004 23:11:36
what if i go with the 12w6v2 and wire it @ 2 ohms with 450 rms, would i be better off that way and end up saving myself some money in the long run by not having to upgrade my electricals? or would it still be too much, with the max draw being 90 amps?
swez on 10/13/2004 14:02:24
Most likely yes... with a 2 ohm load, (450 watts) the amp will need less current draw and only 3dB less power at 450 vs 900 watts. If you went with a ported/vent style enclosure, that would get you back the 3dB lost in power with a more efficient enclosure design.
If you still want dual subs, consider a pair of Adire Shiva's. These are 8+8 DVC's and a pair wired full parallel will net 2 ohms. At $125.00 per sub, that's probably cheaper than a single JL plus double the cone area.
Swez
Tinker18 on 10/13/2004 23:03:58
ok, but the question is, will those 2 shivas hit as hard as a single 12w6v2? if i gave you a grand to play around with, just for subs and amp...what would you do with it is what im asking?
-KP
swez on 10/14/2004 20:41:56
Dual Shiva's will hit harder than a single JL. Why? Basically, you have 2x the cone diameter to work with and adding a 2nd sub will increase your SPL by +3dB. Also, the Shiva is 1.6dB more efficient than the JL on paper.
The JL mentioned has an efficiency rating of 85.9 dB SPL @1w/1m. Not bad at all. X-max is 16.5 mm. (1 way) Not bad here too.
The Shiva Mark IV mentioned has an efficiency rating of 87.3 dB SPL @1w/1m. Not bad at all. X-max is 16.6 mm. (1 way) Not bad here either.
However, if you are pressed for space and need a small enclosure, the single JL is a very good option.
If it were me, I'd opt for the dual Shiva's. Sure, they are plain Jane to look at as compared to the JL, but I am more concerned about how a system sounds. Looks matter little to me as we can always dress up the box and grills to draw visual attention.
Finally, did make a dual Shiva box for a guy 2 years ago. I was not overly impressed with the looks of the Shiva's... but after the box was built and woofers installed... they ROCKED great at 600 RMS. This box was a bit larger than I would have specified. (1.5 cf/sub...sealed) But when it came down to where the "Rubber meets the Road", this guy went home very happy, I was impressed by these subs audio capability and shoot... $125.00/ea., is a pretty reasonable price for a very good SQL sub.
Swez
PS Tink, am not trying to frustrate or pitch you on the Shiva's. This is your cash, your efforts and your call. (I respect that) Since you asked what my choices would be... now ya have it. I guess I'm just not into spending big on over-priced brand names. Value and performance dictate my purchases... not into the name plate or labels kind of stuff.
Up to you bud... your call!
Tinker18 on 10/16/2004 14:50:52
by no means frustrated or anything swez, just trying to get a bearing on what is good for what, still kinda new at this. space isnt really gonna be too much of a problem for me anymore either, im getting rid of my 93 chevy for a 76 firebird, so itll free up some room for a bigger sub box, i hope. lol.
-KP
Replies (13)
ttocs on 10/9/2004 22:51:38
they have had some issues here and there but i would still call them a solid amp. New or old amp?
Tinker18 on 10/10/2004 00:24:07
new---this is the model # ss-ega900d
Opinions?
swez on 10/10/2004 11:21:57
Strong amp here bud. 900 RMS @ 1 ohm, 450 @ 2 ohms. Current draw will be high at full power too. Fuses 30 x 3. SoundStream is definitely a high end amp. The Edge series is more or less the entry level amp in thier lineup. I think this amp can be had for under $300.00 off the net.
Subs:
Yes, you can use a single JL 12W6v2. It can handle 450 RMS as this only comes in 4+4 DVC version. That will allow the amp to draw a bit less current than if running a 1 ohm load.
The W7 series subs may be an option if you want to spend that much. However, these are 3 ohm DVC's. The best you can do is 1.5 ohms minimum load or about 700 RMS to the sub. Not bad though.
Have you ever looked at the Adire Brahma? At $379.00, this is a brute performer. Have a look and consider the 3" voice coil, 2+2 DVC (1/4 ohm wiring) and can handle well ober 900 RMS too. Well designed for small enclosure too. Have a look:
http://www.adireaudio.com/TextPages/BrahmaSubsPageFrameText.htm
Swez
Tinker18 on 10/10/2004 18:11:26
that brahma sub looks nice also, but i couldnt find the amount of space it would need in a sealed enclosure, remember, its gotta fit behind my seats. with the soundstream amp, will i still be able to use it with my current alt, or will i have to upgrade it?
swez on 10/10/2004 19:06:43
Have a look at this chart. It shows Power input in different size sealed enclosures and Qtc performance curves.
Note: A Qtc of .707 is a good all around SQL performance curve. Good low end bass and good power handling. For a 12" Brahma, your sealed box will need to be about 0.9 cf internally and take 900 RMS to reach X-max (full excursion) at ~30 Hz. Not bad for a small sealed enclosure huh?
The higher the Qtc value, the more power the sub can handle, but less low end (thundering bass) The smaller the Qtc. (under 0.6) the box will be larger and more deep bass. But, we need less RMS power to reach X-max due to the larger box.
http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/BrahmaPowerHandling.pdf
Swez
Tinker18 on 10/10/2004 23:49:45
ok, as always you have an answer for everything, which is great, but what about my electrical system, will it need an upgrade as far as the alternator for the amp or would i be ok leaving the 105 amp alternator on my truck?
uochronos on 10/11/2004 03:45:48
a 600watt amp is about trhe biggest you can go before you well get dimming. at full volume a 600watt amp well pull 50amps or so. and you need around 50amps to run all the stock stuff.
so if you get mroe then 600watts rms worth of amps plan to upgrade electricals. if you get more then 800watts rms or so you probly well have no choice but to upgrade
Chronos
swez on 10/11/2004 07:37:17
With that amp and 900 RMS... definitely need more ALT/BAT power to run this bad boy. Remember... 30x3 fuses = 90A max current draw. That leaves 15A for the rest of your car to operate. Not enough if you run the bass hard a lot.
Looking ahead, if you amp the interior speakers, that will call for even more juice from the ALT/BAT. The car needs between 50-60A to operate all primary electricals. That's your baseline for power needs. Then add up current draw from amps to determine the ALT size you will need. I would say a 150A ALT will power the sub amp and such. But if you add a strong 4 channel, that's an additional 35-60A's to the load.
Think it through, as this install can make you cash poor for a long time.
Swez
Tinker18 on 10/11/2004 23:11:36
what if i go with the 12w6v2 and wire it @ 2 ohms with 450 rms, would i be better off that way and end up saving myself some money in the long run by not having to upgrade my electricals? or would it still be too much, with the max draw being 90 amps?
swez on 10/13/2004 14:02:24
Most likely yes... with a 2 ohm load, (450 watts) the amp will need less current draw and only 3dB less power at 450 vs 900 watts. If you went with a ported/vent style enclosure, that would get you back the 3dB lost in power with a more efficient enclosure design.
If you still want dual subs, consider a pair of Adire Shiva's. These are 8+8 DVC's and a pair wired full parallel will net 2 ohms. At $125.00 per sub, that's probably cheaper than a single JL plus double the cone area.
Swez
Tinker18 on 10/13/2004 23:03:58
ok, but the question is, will those 2 shivas hit as hard as a single 12w6v2? if i gave you a grand to play around with, just for subs and amp...what would you do with it is what im asking?
-KP
swez on 10/14/2004 20:41:56
Dual Shiva's will hit harder than a single JL. Why? Basically, you have 2x the cone diameter to work with and adding a 2nd sub will increase your SPL by +3dB. Also, the Shiva is 1.6dB more efficient than the JL on paper.
The JL mentioned has an efficiency rating of 85.9 dB SPL @1w/1m. Not bad at all. X-max is 16.5 mm. (1 way) Not bad here too.
The Shiva Mark IV mentioned has an efficiency rating of 87.3 dB SPL @1w/1m. Not bad at all. X-max is 16.6 mm. (1 way) Not bad here either.
However, if you are pressed for space and need a small enclosure, the single JL is a very good option.
If it were me, I'd opt for the dual Shiva's. Sure, they are plain Jane to look at as compared to the JL, but I am more concerned about how a system sounds. Looks matter little to me as we can always dress up the box and grills to draw visual attention.
Finally, did make a dual Shiva box for a guy 2 years ago. I was not overly impressed with the looks of the Shiva's... but after the box was built and woofers installed... they ROCKED great at 600 RMS. This box was a bit larger than I would have specified. (1.5 cf/sub...sealed) But when it came down to where the "Rubber meets the Road", this guy went home very happy, I was impressed by these subs audio capability and shoot... $125.00/ea., is a pretty reasonable price for a very good SQL sub.
Swez
PS Tink, am not trying to frustrate or pitch you on the Shiva's. This is your cash, your efforts and your call. (I respect that) Since you asked what my choices would be... now ya have it. I guess I'm just not into spending big on over-priced brand names. Value and performance dictate my purchases... not into the name plate or labels kind of stuff.
Up to you bud... your call!
Tinker18 on 10/16/2004 14:50:52
by no means frustrated or anything swez, just trying to get a bearing on what is good for what, still kinda new at this. space isnt really gonna be too much of a problem for me anymore either, im getting rid of my 93 chevy for a 76 firebird, so itll free up some room for a bigger sub box, i hope. lol.
-KP
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