Which would be the better buy if ive got 2 Adire Shivas?
Replies (13)
SG86 on 10/1/2004 15:03:47
1998 Lincoln Continental
P0werLifter on 10/1/2004 15:34:51
The JBL 600.1 would push a pair of these nicely. A 600watt system still still have plenty of bump in the truck while still staying in your alternators capacity range assuming its about a 100amp alt. The adire shivas are 650watts RMS but supplying these woofers with only 300watts each will be plenty.
If you do decide to go with the 1200.1 amplifier for thse woofers, I see some electrical upgrades before you even start running this system..
The averaga automobile nowadays runs about a <100amp alternator give or take a few. It takes 50-60ampers to run your stock electricals so that leaves you with 40-50amperes to play around with without having to uipgrade to a larger alternator, battery Etc. Lets say you decide to go with the 1200 watt amplifier. Divide 1200watts by the efficiency factor (Class D's run at about 90% efficient(..1200/.9= 1333.33..Now divide that number by your charging systems voltage (13.5 is a good average number) 1333.33/13.5= 98.75 amper draw for that amplifier alone. Now tack on the rest of the amperes for your stock electicals 98.75+60= 158amp alternator to actually run this setup. The cost in electrical upgrades can be very expensive. AT LEAST $500
This is why i reccomend going with the 600.1 amplifier more so than the 1200. I. 600/.9= 666.66.......666.66/13.5= 49.38 ampere draw. Most likely this will still be in your charging systsms capacity. And even if its over by <20ampers and your seeing mild Light Dimming when the bass hits, id reccoment going with a larger CCA batter (850+ CCA) and that quite possibly might fix the problem.
Hope this helps
Jason
uochronos on 10/1/2004 16:42:41
i agree with PL here 100% really the only differnce between the 600.1 and the 1200.1 is the power. and doubling the power only gains you about +3db of volume not much at all..
also 2 shivas with 600watts is going to be the same volume about as a single shiva with 600watts. so you could save alot of money by going with just one. and still get nearly identical results.
Chronos
swez on 10/1/2004 21:19:15
Ditto.... the 600.1 is a safe bet to drive your Shiva's. The 1200.1 pulls 2x the current of the 600.1 and only ~6 dB more SPL.
The current draw in the 600.1 is a max of 57A. (nominal draw of ~45A) The 1200.1 maxes out at 114A. (nominal draw of >90A.) That's a huge current difference and upgrading your electrical system is almost a must do with the 1200.1. Figure about $400.00 in electrical upgrades is you like to play the system near max capacity often.
Swez
PS Glad you asked before buying a larger amp!
SG86 on 10/1/2004 21:38:25
Thanks alot for the replies, i guess ill go with the 600.1. Great site to by the way, i was reccomended it by my cousin whos here all the time
swez on 10/1/2004 21:46:14
Glad we could help ya out... Welcome to our happy family!
Swez
P0werLifter on 10/2/2004 02:16:35
Glad we could help ya out =) welcome to Club Knowledge
Jason
SG86 on 10/2/2004 13:39:10
Ok, so ive decided to go with the JBL bp600.1, now the head unit im looking at is the Pioneer DEH-P2600. If that sounds good, final question in how should i set it up? ported box and all that?
P0werLifter on 10/2/2004 20:05:43
Depends on what type of sound you want. Do you want real tight bass with good transient response (Sealed) or Deep Boomy Bass that hits the lows good and is loud? (Ported)
Are you going to be building the enclosure yourself? If so, the easiest route would be a sealed enclosure. If you go ported there is more math and work involved but as long as you have some decent carpentry skills you'll be fine.
Once we get a little more info we'll be able to help you out more GRIN
-Jason
swez on 10/2/2004 20:07:05
This HU design has a few good features and decent power in the amps. (22 x 4 RMS) However, it only has 2 RCA outputs that are ganged off the rear channels.
If you only intend to amp the subs, this unit will be fine. However, if you don't mind the bass dominating the entire audio system, this HU will work. But, if you want a well balanced system of adequate front and rear stage performance, this HU cannot deliver much as it only has 1 set of amp outputs off the rear channel.
Think that one through as your subs will be pushing mid-140's dB of SPL and the rest of the system will be closer to ~103 dB SPL. If that is what you desire... then press on.
Swez
SG86 on 10/3/2004 01:05:59
PL, what do you mean by "real tight bass with good transient respone?" I suppose is hould mention that i dont know a whole lot about car systems, not too much at all. So thats why im posting here. What im really looking for is a system that will hit low notes, hit hard, and will be clean and clear at the same time. That might too too mcuh to ask for, it could be fairly easy, im not too sure.
uochronos on 10/3/2004 02:35:24
what PL meant is basicaly the box your sub in well determine alot of what it sounds like. a few exampl
A sealed box low end of the range they suggest for a sealed enclosure. would deliver real fast tight bass real quick. rock, pop, and dance songs all have alot of quick tight bass in them. this set up well get you higher end bass say 50-80hz well be its prime range of sound
now a large seald box on the high end of the recomended size would deliver less responsize bass it wouldnt react as fast to changes etc. it would deliver more low end bass and be a bit boomier. its prime range would be lets say 40-60hz.
now a small ported box well be similar to a large sealed box but it well net even more low end bass and not be nearly as tight and responsize delivering the type of bass you hear in alot of rap and hip hop. its prime range would be probaly right around 35-45hz
now a large ported box is going to net very loud boomy bass this kind of box is really only meant for pure spl. it well be very loud but not very responsize and well probaly have its best response around 30-40hz.
basicaly what you like in the music and what type you listen to determine what kind of box you well likly want. tight quick drums and what not are best reproduced in a sealed box. slower bass guitar lines thats hit real low and larger kick type drums and what not are best reproduced in by a larger box or a ported box.
i hope this helps you out a little. i'm sure swez and PL well have alot of info to add in too.
Chronos
P0werLifter on 10/3/2004 04:01:04
Chronos pretty much hit it right on the nose about what im talking about as far as transient response. Not really much i can add here GRIN
Small Sealed enclosure= Nice tight punchy bass at higher frequencies 50-80Hz
Large Sealed Enclosure= Still good bass response, Boomy and hits the lower Hz better 40-60Hz
Note: when dealing with ported enclosures you allways tune the enclosure to a certain frequency. Anything below the Port Tuned Frequency will need to be filtered out.
Remember this is a generalization, Depending on how you tune the enclosure the frequncy range can be great, or small
Small Ported= Hits the lows pretty good , Loud, and still providing some adaquit punch but loosing some of the tightness you get with a sealed enclosure
Large Ported= Boomy bass, Very Loud , Hits the Lows with ease anywhere from 25-40Hz is its strong point...Great for high SPL applications. You looset he tight bass response from sealed enclosures and not as punchy but hits the long notes wonderfully.
Hope this has helped ya
-Jason
Replies (13)
SG86 on 10/1/2004 15:03:47
1998 Lincoln Continental
P0werLifter on 10/1/2004 15:34:51
The JBL 600.1 would push a pair of these nicely. A 600watt system still still have plenty of bump in the truck while still staying in your alternators capacity range assuming its about a 100amp alt. The adire shivas are 650watts RMS but supplying these woofers with only 300watts each will be plenty.
If you do decide to go with the 1200.1 amplifier for thse woofers, I see some electrical upgrades before you even start running this system..
The averaga automobile nowadays runs about a <100amp alternator give or take a few. It takes 50-60ampers to run your stock electricals so that leaves you with 40-50amperes to play around with without having to uipgrade to a larger alternator, battery Etc. Lets say you decide to go with the 1200 watt amplifier. Divide 1200watts by the efficiency factor (Class D's run at about 90% efficient(..1200/.9= 1333.33..Now divide that number by your charging systems voltage (13.5 is a good average number) 1333.33/13.5= 98.75 amper draw for that amplifier alone. Now tack on the rest of the amperes for your stock electicals 98.75+60= 158amp alternator to actually run this setup. The cost in electrical upgrades can be very expensive. AT LEAST $500
This is why i reccomend going with the 600.1 amplifier more so than the 1200. I. 600/.9= 666.66.......666.66/13.5= 49.38 ampere draw. Most likely this will still be in your charging systsms capacity. And even if its over by <20ampers and your seeing mild Light Dimming when the bass hits, id reccoment going with a larger CCA batter (850+ CCA) and that quite possibly might fix the problem.
Hope this helps
Jason
uochronos on 10/1/2004 16:42:41
i agree with PL here 100% really the only differnce between the 600.1 and the 1200.1 is the power. and doubling the power only gains you about +3db of volume not much at all..
also 2 shivas with 600watts is going to be the same volume about as a single shiva with 600watts. so you could save alot of money by going with just one. and still get nearly identical results.
Chronos
swez on 10/1/2004 21:19:15
Ditto.... the 600.1 is a safe bet to drive your Shiva's. The 1200.1 pulls 2x the current of the 600.1 and only ~6 dB more SPL.
The current draw in the 600.1 is a max of 57A. (nominal draw of ~45A) The 1200.1 maxes out at 114A. (nominal draw of >90A.) That's a huge current difference and upgrading your electrical system is almost a must do with the 1200.1. Figure about $400.00 in electrical upgrades is you like to play the system near max capacity often.
Swez
PS Glad you asked before buying a larger amp!
SG86 on 10/1/2004 21:38:25
Thanks alot for the replies, i guess ill go with the 600.1. Great site to by the way, i was reccomended it by my cousin whos here all the time
swez on 10/1/2004 21:46:14
Glad we could help ya out... Welcome to our happy family!
Swez
P0werLifter on 10/2/2004 02:16:35
Glad we could help ya out =) welcome to Club Knowledge
Jason
SG86 on 10/2/2004 13:39:10
Ok, so ive decided to go with the JBL bp600.1, now the head unit im looking at is the Pioneer DEH-P2600. If that sounds good, final question in how should i set it up? ported box and all that?
P0werLifter on 10/2/2004 20:05:43
Depends on what type of sound you want. Do you want real tight bass with good transient response (Sealed) or Deep Boomy Bass that hits the lows good and is loud? (Ported)
Are you going to be building the enclosure yourself? If so, the easiest route would be a sealed enclosure. If you go ported there is more math and work involved but as long as you have some decent carpentry skills you'll be fine.
Once we get a little more info we'll be able to help you out more GRIN
-Jason
swez on 10/2/2004 20:07:05
This HU design has a few good features and decent power in the amps. (22 x 4 RMS) However, it only has 2 RCA outputs that are ganged off the rear channels.
If you only intend to amp the subs, this unit will be fine. However, if you don't mind the bass dominating the entire audio system, this HU will work. But, if you want a well balanced system of adequate front and rear stage performance, this HU cannot deliver much as it only has 1 set of amp outputs off the rear channel.
Think that one through as your subs will be pushing mid-140's dB of SPL and the rest of the system will be closer to ~103 dB SPL. If that is what you desire... then press on.
Swez
SG86 on 10/3/2004 01:05:59
PL, what do you mean by "real tight bass with good transient respone?" I suppose is hould mention that i dont know a whole lot about car systems, not too much at all. So thats why im posting here. What im really looking for is a system that will hit low notes, hit hard, and will be clean and clear at the same time. That might too too mcuh to ask for, it could be fairly easy, im not too sure.
uochronos on 10/3/2004 02:35:24
what PL meant is basicaly the box your sub in well determine alot of what it sounds like. a few exampl
A sealed box low end of the range they suggest for a sealed enclosure. would deliver real fast tight bass real quick. rock, pop, and dance songs all have alot of quick tight bass in them. this set up well get you higher end bass say 50-80hz well be its prime range of sound
now a large seald box on the high end of the recomended size would deliver less responsize bass it wouldnt react as fast to changes etc. it would deliver more low end bass and be a bit boomier. its prime range would be lets say 40-60hz.
now a small ported box well be similar to a large sealed box but it well net even more low end bass and not be nearly as tight and responsize delivering the type of bass you hear in alot of rap and hip hop. its prime range would be probaly right around 35-45hz
now a large ported box is going to net very loud boomy bass this kind of box is really only meant for pure spl. it well be very loud but not very responsize and well probaly have its best response around 30-40hz.
basicaly what you like in the music and what type you listen to determine what kind of box you well likly want. tight quick drums and what not are best reproduced in a sealed box. slower bass guitar lines thats hit real low and larger kick type drums and what not are best reproduced in by a larger box or a ported box.
i hope this helps you out a little. i'm sure swez and PL well have alot of info to add in too.
Chronos
P0werLifter on 10/3/2004 04:01:04
Chronos pretty much hit it right on the nose about what im talking about as far as transient response. Not really much i can add here GRIN
Small Sealed enclosure= Nice tight punchy bass at higher frequencies 50-80Hz
Large Sealed Enclosure= Still good bass response, Boomy and hits the lower Hz better 40-60Hz
Note: when dealing with ported enclosures you allways tune the enclosure to a certain frequency. Anything below the Port Tuned Frequency will need to be filtered out.
Remember this is a generalization, Depending on how you tune the enclosure the frequncy range can be great, or small
Small Ported= Hits the lows pretty good , Loud, and still providing some adaquit punch but loosing some of the tightness you get with a sealed enclosure
Large Ported= Boomy bass, Very Loud , Hits the Lows with ease anywhere from 25-40Hz is its strong point...Great for high SPL applications. You looset he tight bass response from sealed enclosures and not as punchy but hits the long notes wonderfully.
Hope this has helped ya
-Jason
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