alright i just installed my 3 new infinity kappa perfect 10.1's 4 ohm single voice coil subs....not i wanted to wire it to a 1.34ohm load so i took all the pos terminals and wired them together and did the same for the neg terminals....so i set up my amp which is a jbl 600.1 running off my alpine HU...now my problem is the bass sounds like crap....really bad, at first it was trying to repoduce the highs but i forgot about my HU lowpass crossover so i set that up and now its playin lower tones....yet it sounds sooo bad....not loud or clean....someone help me im ready to tear my hair out having worked on this for the past week 5-6hrs every night....oh ya its in a sealed box too....any one got ideas....i fiddled w/ the gain but its sensitivity control so i usually start off at about 3/4 of the full ability and then adjust according so....and the lowpass on the amp is as high as it will let the freq come in and the bass boost is all the way down....help please...thanks FROWN
Replies (8)
Swez on 06/19/2003 20:56:45
Sound like crap? Getting pretty technical on the "jargon" side of your description here DK15... Nice amp, fine subs too!
A few things to consider:
1. Amp gain at mid point for now
2. All subs are in parallel for 1.33 ohms, (no problem here) but are they all wired in phase? (meaning, all speakers are going in and out at th same time in the same direction)
3. What is the internal cf dimensions of the sub enclosure?
4. Set LP filter on amp to ~80 Hz (same with HU sub crossover)
If you can, try different placements of the subs in your vehicle. Most sound best when subs are fired toward the rear bumper and butted up against the rear seat backs.
According to Crutchfield specs on these subs, 350 RMS @ 4 ohms RMS power and a sealed box cf internal of 0.6 cf/sub. Can go as high as .75 cf/sub and get additional low end bass and stillbe fine. If the box is much larger or small than this, could be a major reason why the subs sound lousy.
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-WD8hgigypMG/ProdView.asp?s=0&cc=01&c=10&g=67600&I=108PER101+
Anyway, reset your gain on the amp, same with LP filters and make sure all subs are wired in phase with each other. One sub out of phase with the other 2 will produce weak bass and sound terrible too.
Swez
PS If you do not have the internal cf dimensions of the box, can you measure the external dimensions... H x W x D and pass on those numbers. Does this enclosure have internal divider walls between each sub? Better yet, if a store bought box, got a weblink?
drumking15 on 06/19/2003 21:31:38
the box is a qlogic type 1 encolesurew w/ .65 of space per sub...w/ poly fill per instructions of infinity sub....i dont know but i fiddled w/ it a little more and got it to sound a little better, but its still really weak compared to the 2 12's i used to have...those were in a bandpass box, right now my freind w/ a single 10 is slammin harder than me...grrr ill find the problem...ill unscrew them and check the phase but i was pretty sure it was all right when i put them in like 45 min ago....eh problems kill my motivation
Swez on 06/19/2003 21:53:43
Problems may kill your motivation... if you allow it to! Anger & frustration will also block your ability to think clearly and logically through the issues. Don't sweat the small stuff in life.... BTW, most things in life are the "SMALL STUFF" !!!
However, problems can stretch our minds, strengthen our character/ resolve and give us a sense of great satifaction, once we figure it all out...
Also, makes us step outside our own little world and ask for help... which you seem to be very good at BTW! Hang in there as you will get there with time and a little more helps. SMILE
Take a break... step back and clear your mind, then come back with a vengence to the issues when you are well rested and clear of mind.
Swez
PS Hope you don't mind the "pep talk".... you'll get there soon.
ttocs on 06/19/2003 23:11:05
there is not much to go wrong there. What sounds bad about it? Is it volume or sound?
drumking15 on 06/19/2003 23:57:13
oh yes the sweet sound of victory!!!! i figured it out...1st i checked the phase and everything was right on, so i just went thru the steps....i figure it had more to do w/ the signal so i just re did everything..reset gain, crossovers, and what not...i figure out that my subs were reproducting thr high ends sounds fixed tha using the low pass crossover, and that when i turned it up it got really distorted because of my other speakers...so i nplugged them and then realized all the extra bass output from the deck signal was going to all the amps and realized i forgot to set all the highpass co's on my other amps....so once i did that i tweaked the 60, 80, 100 hz up a little on the deck.....and cranked it up to a decent volumne and ooooh did it slam!!!! so crisp and loud.....so very different from an hour or two ago.....my friend was outside and he was like holy **** dude, my rear window was flexing like an inch he said...i didnt believe him, but after looking for myself it really was....also i notice a huge difference was because i was listening w/ my trunk open, soon as i closed it it got a lot better....also 1 more ?.....im pretty sure ill need some type of baffle of enclosure, but i have 6x9's on my rear deck and have always had bandpass boxes in the past so i never had a lot of pressure inside the actaul trunk, but not my 6x9's would be the weak link for pressur ein the trunk to push on, any recomendations? I have them mounted in my integra if you've ever seen these decks before....but i was thinking of taking my 6x9 boxes i have and screwing them thru the speaker, then thru the rear deck, then into the box to help the pressure from distorting my 6x9's....but ill have to see how it fits because there is a bar going across so we'll see.....but thanks ever soo much....and thanks for the motivatonal speech swez.....all my lack of control stems from my bipolar disorder...so im a roller coaster....sucks but its life...thanks again peace!
Swez on 06/20/2003 07:43:43
Hey... good news man! Glad to hear that you got the thump you have worked so hard to attain.
About the 6x9's in rear deck... yes, they do need to be isolated from the bass waves produced by the subs. The cones just go nuts w/o a cover over the rear part of the speakers. Some use odd shaped plastic bowls like "tupperware" for this with good success. You'll have to measure the exterior dimensions of the speaker and install something that will fit into the space mentioned. Can glue them in place with Liquid nails or silicone sealer or make some type of strap to hold them in place. They don't have to be perfectly air tight like subs... but adequate to block subwoofer energy
FYI: Am Bi-polar and ADHD as well. Have found that small doses of Lithium Carbonate (300-900 Mg/day) control this very well. Adding an anti-deprepressant to help balance Seritonine, Dopamine and Norprinephrin might be very helpful as well.
There are lots of good meds out there to control these brain chemistry imbalances: Zoloft, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Librium and Prozac, to name a few.
If you are presently not using any thing to help you get back in balance, may I strongly suggest you check it out with good evaluation and a Doc that understand these issues well. Usually, a Psychiatrist is the best choice and free samples of these drugs can help a lot to offset the cost of these very expensive drugs. Some have side effects that go away as the body gets used to the meds. But if you go more than a few weeks without good results or side effects, can change meds mix until all is in balance again. You'll feel like a new person once all this balances out. Many times, these are hereditary in our genes or high stress induced events.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIVE YOUR LIVE ON A ROLLERCOASTER!!!
Dr. Swez
drumking15 on 06/20/2003 12:09:27
word...ya im so glad i got it working, i think im going to use some premade baffles ive found them before just forgot where i saw them at, they'd be clean looking and what not...so im sure ill figure it out....but ya right now im on lithium helps me balnce a little but i still go from not be depressed mostly but from being really motivated to not in a flash so its still hard on me to get things done w/o getting pissed off or what not, but ive found w/ cars in general that it helps me focus and my head on straight....i just finsihed rebuild my entire motor all myself and soon ill be turbo charging it so by all means ive gotten to know a lot esp from forums like this...i just wish i had more time to give back what has been given to me in information...im just so friggin busy and when i have 2 seconds im usually tryin to sleep....but it sounds so nice and brings a huge smile to my face and a huge slow me down tool in the rear too...keeps me from racing everyone in sight....but with the ability to be able to pull out my system when i want to go to the track it was the best idea cause i can have my whole system out w/ the right tools in less than 15 min...still really theft prevented tho its completly bolted down to a trunk tie ar i have running aross and then locked in also w/ a bike cable so...then i jut have the usual l brackets to keep it mounted for the day to day driving so i dont have any subs or amps flying at me when i stopp but its all good, ill try and get some pics up and show you how it all came out....thanks again
Swez on 06/20/2003 13:01:25
Sounds good and yes, I understand the really "motivated" behavior as well. This is more the "Manic" phase of Bi-polar disorders. Can get a lot done... but always running an adrenaline to get there. Bad for the body long term!
Have you tried upping the Lithium a tad and see if that helps? If you get too much in your system, the side effects are hand tremor, aggitation and maybe difficulty sleeping too. Also, you may have a dopamine imbalance here too. Too much dopamine and not enough Seratonin will keep you in the manic stage a lot. This can lead you into many high risk hobbies and activities the average guy would never try to pull off.
Anyway, hope to see some pics soon and let us know how it all turms out.
Swez
PS Giving of your time to others as some have given to you, requires discipline and a sense of gratititude for such things as well as making certain things in our lives a high priority. Until we set our priorities well and learn to say no to things that are not on that list... we are forever "chasing after the wind" !!! THINK
Replies (8)
Swez on 06/19/2003 20:56:45
Sound like crap? Getting pretty technical on the "jargon" side of your description here DK15... Nice amp, fine subs too!
A few things to consider:
1. Amp gain at mid point for now
2. All subs are in parallel for 1.33 ohms, (no problem here) but are they all wired in phase? (meaning, all speakers are going in and out at th same time in the same direction)
3. What is the internal cf dimensions of the sub enclosure?
4. Set LP filter on amp to ~80 Hz (same with HU sub crossover)
If you can, try different placements of the subs in your vehicle. Most sound best when subs are fired toward the rear bumper and butted up against the rear seat backs.
According to Crutchfield specs on these subs, 350 RMS @ 4 ohms RMS power and a sealed box cf internal of 0.6 cf/sub. Can go as high as .75 cf/sub and get additional low end bass and stillbe fine. If the box is much larger or small than this, could be a major reason why the subs sound lousy.
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-WD8hgigypMG/ProdView.asp?s=0&cc=01&c=10&g=67600&I=108PER101+
Anyway, reset your gain on the amp, same with LP filters and make sure all subs are wired in phase with each other. One sub out of phase with the other 2 will produce weak bass and sound terrible too.
Swez
PS If you do not have the internal cf dimensions of the box, can you measure the external dimensions... H x W x D and pass on those numbers. Does this enclosure have internal divider walls between each sub? Better yet, if a store bought box, got a weblink?
drumking15 on 06/19/2003 21:31:38
the box is a qlogic type 1 encolesurew w/ .65 of space per sub...w/ poly fill per instructions of infinity sub....i dont know but i fiddled w/ it a little more and got it to sound a little better, but its still really weak compared to the 2 12's i used to have...those were in a bandpass box, right now my freind w/ a single 10 is slammin harder than me...grrr ill find the problem...ill unscrew them and check the phase but i was pretty sure it was all right when i put them in like 45 min ago....eh problems kill my motivation
Swez on 06/19/2003 21:53:43
Problems may kill your motivation... if you allow it to! Anger & frustration will also block your ability to think clearly and logically through the issues. Don't sweat the small stuff in life.... BTW, most things in life are the "SMALL STUFF" !!!
However, problems can stretch our minds, strengthen our character/ resolve and give us a sense of great satifaction, once we figure it all out...
Also, makes us step outside our own little world and ask for help... which you seem to be very good at BTW! Hang in there as you will get there with time and a little more helps. SMILE
Take a break... step back and clear your mind, then come back with a vengence to the issues when you are well rested and clear of mind.
Swez
PS Hope you don't mind the "pep talk".... you'll get there soon.
ttocs on 06/19/2003 23:11:05
there is not much to go wrong there. What sounds bad about it? Is it volume or sound?
drumking15 on 06/19/2003 23:57:13
oh yes the sweet sound of victory!!!! i figured it out...1st i checked the phase and everything was right on, so i just went thru the steps....i figure it had more to do w/ the signal so i just re did everything..reset gain, crossovers, and what not...i figure out that my subs were reproducting thr high ends sounds fixed tha using the low pass crossover, and that when i turned it up it got really distorted because of my other speakers...so i nplugged them and then realized all the extra bass output from the deck signal was going to all the amps and realized i forgot to set all the highpass co's on my other amps....so once i did that i tweaked the 60, 80, 100 hz up a little on the deck.....and cranked it up to a decent volumne and ooooh did it slam!!!! so crisp and loud.....so very different from an hour or two ago.....my friend was outside and he was like holy **** dude, my rear window was flexing like an inch he said...i didnt believe him, but after looking for myself it really was....also i notice a huge difference was because i was listening w/ my trunk open, soon as i closed it it got a lot better....also 1 more ?.....im pretty sure ill need some type of baffle of enclosure, but i have 6x9's on my rear deck and have always had bandpass boxes in the past so i never had a lot of pressure inside the actaul trunk, but not my 6x9's would be the weak link for pressur ein the trunk to push on, any recomendations? I have them mounted in my integra if you've ever seen these decks before....but i was thinking of taking my 6x9 boxes i have and screwing them thru the speaker, then thru the rear deck, then into the box to help the pressure from distorting my 6x9's....but ill have to see how it fits because there is a bar going across so we'll see.....but thanks ever soo much....and thanks for the motivatonal speech swez.....all my lack of control stems from my bipolar disorder...so im a roller coaster....sucks but its life...thanks again peace!
Swez on 06/20/2003 07:43:43
Hey... good news man! Glad to hear that you got the thump you have worked so hard to attain.
About the 6x9's in rear deck... yes, they do need to be isolated from the bass waves produced by the subs. The cones just go nuts w/o a cover over the rear part of the speakers. Some use odd shaped plastic bowls like "tupperware" for this with good success. You'll have to measure the exterior dimensions of the speaker and install something that will fit into the space mentioned. Can glue them in place with Liquid nails or silicone sealer or make some type of strap to hold them in place. They don't have to be perfectly air tight like subs... but adequate to block subwoofer energy
FYI: Am Bi-polar and ADHD as well. Have found that small doses of Lithium Carbonate (300-900 Mg/day) control this very well. Adding an anti-deprepressant to help balance Seritonine, Dopamine and Norprinephrin might be very helpful as well.
There are lots of good meds out there to control these brain chemistry imbalances: Zoloft, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Librium and Prozac, to name a few.
If you are presently not using any thing to help you get back in balance, may I strongly suggest you check it out with good evaluation and a Doc that understand these issues well. Usually, a Psychiatrist is the best choice and free samples of these drugs can help a lot to offset the cost of these very expensive drugs. Some have side effects that go away as the body gets used to the meds. But if you go more than a few weeks without good results or side effects, can change meds mix until all is in balance again. You'll feel like a new person once all this balances out. Many times, these are hereditary in our genes or high stress induced events.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIVE YOUR LIVE ON A ROLLERCOASTER!!!
Dr. Swez
drumking15 on 06/20/2003 12:09:27
word...ya im so glad i got it working, i think im going to use some premade baffles ive found them before just forgot where i saw them at, they'd be clean looking and what not...so im sure ill figure it out....but ya right now im on lithium helps me balnce a little but i still go from not be depressed mostly but from being really motivated to not in a flash so its still hard on me to get things done w/o getting pissed off or what not, but ive found w/ cars in general that it helps me focus and my head on straight....i just finsihed rebuild my entire motor all myself and soon ill be turbo charging it so by all means ive gotten to know a lot esp from forums like this...i just wish i had more time to give back what has been given to me in information...im just so friggin busy and when i have 2 seconds im usually tryin to sleep....but it sounds so nice and brings a huge smile to my face and a huge slow me down tool in the rear too...keeps me from racing everyone in sight....but with the ability to be able to pull out my system when i want to go to the track it was the best idea cause i can have my whole system out w/ the right tools in less than 15 min...still really theft prevented tho its completly bolted down to a trunk tie ar i have running aross and then locked in also w/ a bike cable so...then i jut have the usual l brackets to keep it mounted for the day to day driving so i dont have any subs or amps flying at me when i stopp but its all good, ill try and get some pics up and show you how it all came out....thanks again
Swez on 06/20/2003 13:01:25
Sounds good and yes, I understand the really "motivated" behavior as well. This is more the "Manic" phase of Bi-polar disorders. Can get a lot done... but always running an adrenaline to get there. Bad for the body long term!
Have you tried upping the Lithium a tad and see if that helps? If you get too much in your system, the side effects are hand tremor, aggitation and maybe difficulty sleeping too. Also, you may have a dopamine imbalance here too. Too much dopamine and not enough Seratonin will keep you in the manic stage a lot. This can lead you into many high risk hobbies and activities the average guy would never try to pull off.
Anyway, hope to see some pics soon and let us know how it all turms out.
Swez
PS Giving of your time to others as some have given to you, requires discipline and a sense of gratititude for such things as well as making certain things in our lives a high priority. Until we set our priorities well and learn to say no to things that are not on that list... we are forever "chasing after the wind" !!! THINK
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