I have a Tacoma 4 door so space for a sub is tight. I managed to squeeze a 10" ID behind the center consol and in front of the rear seat. The problem is I didn't inset the baffle board enough so the suround touchs the rear seat. Is this a problem? Second, any suggestions on a good 8" sub that doesn't require much box space? I might be able to get two in the same space. I've got 2 x 125 rms at 4 ohms; 2 x 200 at 2 ohms; or 1 x 800 at 2 ohms to power with. I'm more interested in SQ but do need some SPL for the "feel" GRIN. Any ideas out there?
Replies (15)
snipe523 on 09/23/2004 17:32:15
The surround touching the seat can definately be a problem, as it can cause the voice coil to become misaligned in the gap. This in turn can cause it to rub and eventually fail. AS far as 8" subs go for the power you have I would say try Resonant Engineering's 8" RE sub. Supposed to be pretty good and they are only like 50 bucks each. You could also try to get your hands on some used Elemental Designs 8A's as they are unbeleivable for little 8" subs. The only problems with those like I said would be that you would need to find them used as they have been discontinued.
swez on 09/26/2004 14:23:53
What is the power rating of that amp in MONO @ 4 ohms? In fact, what amp model & make do you have there?
The sub surround against the rear seat is not good for the sub for earlier mentioned reasons and more. If you know how many cubic feet you can squeeze out of the console or floor mounted subs, we may be able to help you figure out a way to use a pair of 8" subs here.
One thing to consider is a dual chamber, sealed enclosure that can be loaded with a pair of 8 ohm subs (net 4 ohms in parallel) and have enough airspace to make them work to your advantage. A top firing design might be your best option if floor space will allow it and so will your back rests on the front seats. Another option is to remove one side seat and build a decent enclosure there. If the rear seats have a flip-up feature... that may be a good option too.
What say you?
Swez
PS Here's one guys' idea of an 8" sub in the back.
http://www.sounddomain.com/memberpage/442720/2
Geezer on 09/28/2004 08:21:50
Well, I cut another 3/4" MDF ring to push the seat away from the surround and it seems to be working well. (No more contact.) I think I'll stay with this setup for now as when my wife heard the CDT HDs I just put in, she decided her car needed an upgrade. Several hundred dollars later, I don't think new subs for my truck are a high enough priority :-) Thanks for the input and I'm sure I'll have more questions when the new stuff for my wife's car arrives.
BTW Swez, I saw that sounddomain picture too and used it as the model for my sub. I ended up having the driver face to the rear (against the rear seat, so I could squeeze a 10" in.) I used a 12" tubular concrete pillar form - waxed cardboard, as the basic enclosure, put two 3/4" MDF baffles on one end for the sub, one MDF ring in the middle for support, one on the end to seal the opposite end that the driver faces, fiberglassed it to about 1/2" thick, then attached it to a fiberglass "saddle" of the floor footprint for a base. I then streched some material over the whole thing to give it shape and fiberglassed some more. It works very well, it's just a tad obtrusive, but not totally unacceptable. Thanks again all.
swez on 09/28/2004 10:39:21
Sounds like a good design here. The Sonotube is a good former and the internal trim ring will help support the tube as well. Good fabrication mentioned. But having the sub firing into rear seat will really hinder deep bass performance. The bass just smacks right into the seat cushion.
Is there anyway to flip the sub around and fire to the front OR INCORPORATE the sub into the center console? That would be a real nice touch if this is possible. Sonically better too!
What do think?
Swez
Geezer on 09/28/2004 11:07:53
You know, I wondered if firing into the seat would reduce, I.E. absorb waves. I probably can fashion an up firing configuration with a little angling involved. Firing forward would probably be best (I don't like the idea of crud, even dust, falling on the cone), but I incorporated a notch to allow the flip up portion of the center console to remain functionable, which I can't do if the sub fires directly forward. (Angle might work here though.) Not sure I can work it into the console, but I'll look into that. Thanks so much for the input.
swez on 09/28/2004 13:21:58
Yes, an up firing sub is much better than what you have now. Am sure the present install was well thought out, but suffering from cone restrictions. (blockage by rear seat)
If you can envison an up-firing configuration that is perhaps aimed more toward the back of the cabin... this may be a big shot in the arm for the subs' intended performance.
If you are concerned about debris falling on the sub, use that trim ring you have fashioned and cover it with acoustically transparent cloth. Grill cloth is easy to obtain, low cost and easy to install. Basically, you are making your own grill cover this way. The cloth needs to have some degree of open weave to work best.
If you hold the cloth up to a modest light source (a flashlight) and can see plenty of light through the cloth... good enough. But not such an open weave that silt/sand or other small particles will flow through it easily.
Comments?
Swez
Geezer on 09/28/2004 16:05:12
I like that plan. I'd though about a waffle grill covered with grill cloth for added protection. I've got some looking and planning to do tonight. (I find planning almost more satisfying than completing a project, strange, yes.) One question, I believe firing into the seat is hurting the sub's performance, so why are so many setups made to fire into the backs of seats? Are the seats cannibalized to be less obstructive? Does the distance before hitting something like a seat affect the degree of blockage? I'm thinking about subs in car trunks; eventually the sound waves need to pass through seats. Are these ok because the wave has time (space) to build up steam? Just a curiousity question.
uochronos on 09/28/2004 16:55:52
in a trunk the sub in a good design is not pressed against the seat it has at least a foot or more of space giving it plenty of room to move air. if its rpessed against the seat it is hard for the sub to move air. also many people fold down the back seat(s) or have a hole where the center armrest is. or remove part of the rear deck to get more sound from the trunk. i personaly never liked trunks for subs.
Chronos
swez on 09/28/2004 17:46:21
Helped a buddy from INDY to design, fabricate and install a dual 10 sub box in his 2000 Ford F-150. The rear seats folded upward to give just enough room to fit behind the driver's side bucket seat. The amp rack was built and installed under the passenger side rear seat, but still useable.
A very tight fit to say the least and the sub box was angled at ~17 degrees so his backrest was comfortable while driving. I might be able to locate his pics on the job so you can see how we did it.
Swez
Geezer on 09/28/2004 18:19:43
That makes sense Chronos and I'd be very interested in pics, if they're easy to locate Swez.
swez on 09/29/2004 10:54:04
Here ya go... don't laugh as I am a bum while working on stuff like this.... No, I don't wear a suit and tie while building stuff.... hehe
Swez
uochronos on 09/29/2004 15:40:06
no suit and tie swez?! i'm shocked i would think someone of your calibur would al;ways look profesional... i mean i always wear a silk shirt and tie minimu when i goto the wrecking yard i dont think they well let you in with less... alas i think i have lost respect for swez:) hehe.
Chronos
Geezer on 09/29/2004 19:37:28
Umm, call me stupid (if you haven't already :-), but I don't see a pic or url. What am I missing?
uochronos on 09/29/2004 19:54:11
me either thats why i was joking with him hehe.
might want to add that swez.
Chronos
swez on 09/30/2004 10:55:50
LOL... you're right! I did not paste that link after I found same.... here we go again... I'll find it and do it right this time. Was interrupted by visitors and lost my focus in the process.
Here's the link: http://www.sounddomain.com/id/shark911
My humble appologies for the "brain fart".
Swez
PS Yes, I always wear a suit and tie when answering posts here at CK. It lends a professional aire to the site... don't ya think? If you believe that... I want to sell a piece of slightly abused property in SW Florida. It's only been through 2 hurricans this year. Don't pay any attention to the missing roof sections.
Am planning to install ceiling windows for more ambient light at night. I like to gaze the heavens with a 50x Tyco microscope. It's not the right tool... but when the 200" Palomar is dissassembled and sold for scrap, I plan to buy it and set up my own observatory. LOL
Replies (15)
snipe523 on 09/23/2004 17:32:15
The surround touching the seat can definately be a problem, as it can cause the voice coil to become misaligned in the gap. This in turn can cause it to rub and eventually fail. AS far as 8" subs go for the power you have I would say try Resonant Engineering's 8" RE sub. Supposed to be pretty good and they are only like 50 bucks each. You could also try to get your hands on some used Elemental Designs 8A's as they are unbeleivable for little 8" subs. The only problems with those like I said would be that you would need to find them used as they have been discontinued.
swez on 09/26/2004 14:23:53
What is the power rating of that amp in MONO @ 4 ohms? In fact, what amp model & make do you have there?
The sub surround against the rear seat is not good for the sub for earlier mentioned reasons and more. If you know how many cubic feet you can squeeze out of the console or floor mounted subs, we may be able to help you figure out a way to use a pair of 8" subs here.
One thing to consider is a dual chamber, sealed enclosure that can be loaded with a pair of 8 ohm subs (net 4 ohms in parallel) and have enough airspace to make them work to your advantage. A top firing design might be your best option if floor space will allow it and so will your back rests on the front seats. Another option is to remove one side seat and build a decent enclosure there. If the rear seats have a flip-up feature... that may be a good option too.
What say you?
Swez
PS Here's one guys' idea of an 8" sub in the back.
http://www.sounddomain.com/memberpage/442720/2
Geezer on 09/28/2004 08:21:50
Well, I cut another 3/4" MDF ring to push the seat away from the surround and it seems to be working well. (No more contact.) I think I'll stay with this setup for now as when my wife heard the CDT HDs I just put in, she decided her car needed an upgrade. Several hundred dollars later, I don't think new subs for my truck are a high enough priority :-) Thanks for the input and I'm sure I'll have more questions when the new stuff for my wife's car arrives.
BTW Swez, I saw that sounddomain picture too and used it as the model for my sub. I ended up having the driver face to the rear (against the rear seat, so I could squeeze a 10" in.) I used a 12" tubular concrete pillar form - waxed cardboard, as the basic enclosure, put two 3/4" MDF baffles on one end for the sub, one MDF ring in the middle for support, one on the end to seal the opposite end that the driver faces, fiberglassed it to about 1/2" thick, then attached it to a fiberglass "saddle" of the floor footprint for a base. I then streched some material over the whole thing to give it shape and fiberglassed some more. It works very well, it's just a tad obtrusive, but not totally unacceptable. Thanks again all.
swez on 09/28/2004 10:39:21
Sounds like a good design here. The Sonotube is a good former and the internal trim ring will help support the tube as well. Good fabrication mentioned. But having the sub firing into rear seat will really hinder deep bass performance. The bass just smacks right into the seat cushion.
Is there anyway to flip the sub around and fire to the front OR INCORPORATE the sub into the center console? That would be a real nice touch if this is possible. Sonically better too!
What do think?
Swez
Geezer on 09/28/2004 11:07:53
You know, I wondered if firing into the seat would reduce, I.E. absorb waves. I probably can fashion an up firing configuration with a little angling involved. Firing forward would probably be best (I don't like the idea of crud, even dust, falling on the cone), but I incorporated a notch to allow the flip up portion of the center console to remain functionable, which I can't do if the sub fires directly forward. (Angle might work here though.) Not sure I can work it into the console, but I'll look into that. Thanks so much for the input.
swez on 09/28/2004 13:21:58
Yes, an up firing sub is much better than what you have now. Am sure the present install was well thought out, but suffering from cone restrictions. (blockage by rear seat)
If you can envison an up-firing configuration that is perhaps aimed more toward the back of the cabin... this may be a big shot in the arm for the subs' intended performance.
If you are concerned about debris falling on the sub, use that trim ring you have fashioned and cover it with acoustically transparent cloth. Grill cloth is easy to obtain, low cost and easy to install. Basically, you are making your own grill cover this way. The cloth needs to have some degree of open weave to work best.
If you hold the cloth up to a modest light source (a flashlight) and can see plenty of light through the cloth... good enough. But not such an open weave that silt/sand or other small particles will flow through it easily.
Comments?
Swez
Geezer on 09/28/2004 16:05:12
I like that plan. I'd though about a waffle grill covered with grill cloth for added protection. I've got some looking and planning to do tonight. (I find planning almost more satisfying than completing a project, strange, yes.) One question, I believe firing into the seat is hurting the sub's performance, so why are so many setups made to fire into the backs of seats? Are the seats cannibalized to be less obstructive? Does the distance before hitting something like a seat affect the degree of blockage? I'm thinking about subs in car trunks; eventually the sound waves need to pass through seats. Are these ok because the wave has time (space) to build up steam? Just a curiousity question.
uochronos on 09/28/2004 16:55:52
in a trunk the sub in a good design is not pressed against the seat it has at least a foot or more of space giving it plenty of room to move air. if its rpessed against the seat it is hard for the sub to move air. also many people fold down the back seat(s) or have a hole where the center armrest is. or remove part of the rear deck to get more sound from the trunk. i personaly never liked trunks for subs.
Chronos
swez on 09/28/2004 17:46:21
Helped a buddy from INDY to design, fabricate and install a dual 10 sub box in his 2000 Ford F-150. The rear seats folded upward to give just enough room to fit behind the driver's side bucket seat. The amp rack was built and installed under the passenger side rear seat, but still useable.
A very tight fit to say the least and the sub box was angled at ~17 degrees so his backrest was comfortable while driving. I might be able to locate his pics on the job so you can see how we did it.
Swez
Geezer on 09/28/2004 18:19:43
That makes sense Chronos and I'd be very interested in pics, if they're easy to locate Swez.
swez on 09/29/2004 10:54:04
Here ya go... don't laugh as I am a bum while working on stuff like this.... No, I don't wear a suit and tie while building stuff.... hehe
Swez
uochronos on 09/29/2004 15:40:06
no suit and tie swez?! i'm shocked i would think someone of your calibur would al;ways look profesional... i mean i always wear a silk shirt and tie minimu when i goto the wrecking yard i dont think they well let you in with less... alas i think i have lost respect for swez:) hehe.
Chronos
Geezer on 09/29/2004 19:37:28
Umm, call me stupid (if you haven't already :-), but I don't see a pic or url. What am I missing?
uochronos on 09/29/2004 19:54:11
me either thats why i was joking with him hehe.
might want to add that swez.
Chronos
swez on 09/30/2004 10:55:50
LOL... you're right! I did not paste that link after I found same.... here we go again... I'll find it and do it right this time. Was interrupted by visitors and lost my focus in the process.
Here's the link: http://www.sounddomain.com/id/shark911
My humble appologies for the "brain fart".
Swez
PS Yes, I always wear a suit and tie when answering posts here at CK. It lends a professional aire to the site... don't ya think? If you believe that... I want to sell a piece of slightly abused property in SW Florida. It's only been through 2 hurricans this year. Don't pay any attention to the missing roof sections.
Am planning to install ceiling windows for more ambient light at night. I like to gaze the heavens with a 50x Tyco microscope. It's not the right tool... but when the 200" Palomar is dissassembled and sold for scrap, I plan to buy it and set up my own observatory. LOL
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