Hey guys, I was just wondering what are the issues/ concerens with running 2 different size drivers in my truck.
Most of you already know that im going to be running 1 RE XXX 15 but for the real tight bass im considering purchasing a single 8" RE XXX and mount it in a sealed enclosure within the center consol im going to be building.
What are the issues with this type of setup? do i need to worry about the wave cancellation?
Thanks
-Jason USFLAG
Replies (18)
cplkittle on 09/22/2004 08:49:28
I have tinkered with this and found that cancellation only occurs when trying to mix subs that are only one size difference. This is due to the almost unavoidable overlap in frequency ranges. Using an 8" sub to accompany a 15 is an excellent idea and should sound very nice. Also locating the sub in the console is another good idea. The only problem I could possibly find with this setup is that 15's are relatively sluggish when it comes to response, while 8's are very quick. Putting an 8 closer to your ear than the 15 may result in a noticeable delay of sub frequencies coming from the 15. If you run the 8 full range, it might not be as noticeable. My only suggestion would be to tinker with delay time on the 8 to try to synchronize it with the 15.
ttocs on 09/22/2004 10:26:14
I think you would like it... It would have the best of both worlds with the 8's quick punch and the 15's brute pwr.
swez on 09/22/2004 11:05:23
This is common in Pro and HT applications. One massive woofer for the low end bass (20-80 Hz.) and a strong 8" MB driver for 80- about 300 Hz. The 8" MB will give you the kick and punch from drum kits and upper bass frequencies. The XXX sub provides the thunderous lows.
The key to making this come out right is not to have woofer and MB sharing common frequency bands and proper phase alignments. Since the cabin of your vehicle is relatively small... under 300 cf., delay time issues would be minimal. Having a quality bandpass or notch filter on the 8, is also important. Don't want to MB to bleed into sub range or overlap the mids too much either. The 8" needs it's own enclosure as well. Not too large either... maybe 0.3 cf at most. Check RE specs and recommendations before you dive in.
Finally, it is often best to mount the sub and MB on the same plane. (separate enclosures to be sure) This way, sound waves coming from both cones leave the same plane at the same time and travel into the cabin at about the same velosity. Good phase alignment by doing it this way. However, if you are determined to mount the 8" in a console, may have to use the sub amp phase angle circuit to adjust for proper phase alignments between subs and all other components (drivers) in the system. Phase alignment of all drivers in the system are critical to high SQL performance.
Swez
P0werLifter on 09/22/2004 13:52:17
Alright cool, sounds like a good plan to me, just a little bit tricky but overall should sound nice GRIN. I think i might start to focus a lil more on SQL in my truck rather than SPL due to the fact that soon im going to purchase a Honda Civic Hatchback or a VW Golf and make that my project SPL competition vehicle. BUT...with that single 15" ported to 28Hz ill still be Loud and Proud when I need to be HAPPY .That way i have the best of both worlds.
As far as mounting the 8" Driver, it would be best to mount it by the kick panels where my CDT's are? That might be tough considering i only have so much foot area in my cab. Ive seen a guy that had a pure SQ setup in his toyota tacoma that had an 8" woofer build in with the dash using fiberglass...that system was awesome.
I could also build the 8" up close to the dash in the center consol so it would be closer the where the CDT's are mounted..just in the center of the cab rather than on the side.
Any ideas? I will talk to my buddy at the shop about enclosure recs for the 8".
Thanks Guys
-Jason
swez on 09/24/2004 09:22:27
Have you given much thought to how to power this 8" midbass driver? Yes, the PA amp you have now has the power and flexability... but the MB driver will have to blend in with the rest of your system w/o excess cancellations between the CDT's and your sub placements.
Seems to me, driver placement, power requirements and a solid BP filtering are very important aspects to consider here. The amp that will drive your CDT Comps... is it Tri-mode compatible? Meaning the CDT's each have a channel and the MB driver is bridged across the outputs with its own BP filter network. Most amps can do this feature and there are several ways to configure this addition. The key componet to this addition is the bandbass passive crossover network. You may have to make your own filter.
Finally, the power to this 8" MB driver does not have to be a super powered either. This is only for fill in purposes. (100 watts RMS is plenty) So the RE 8" XXX may not be needed. A lesser speaker will work and save you cash for other things needed.
Think it through....
Swez
P0werLifter on 09/24/2004 14:53:59
If i remember correctly my Alpine amplifier for my components im using is a Tri-Mode compatible but im not totally positive. Ive been thinking about buying another amplifier anyway as this one has some scratches on it and for my new sub enclosure im going to be building a nice amprack on the front of them to where their mounted flush with the enclosure and only the very tops are showing...no wires and i want a very nice clean look.
That way i can also amplify my mothers stereo system and start working on her setup after i get mine where its at.
Anny Suggestions as far an an amplifier that will do what i need in this configuration?
-Jason
swez on 09/24/2004 16:40:38
Ahhhh... this is where a 5 channel amp may be very handy. The Alpine MRV-F450 can be bridged to a strong 3 channel version. The front & rear channels are bridged for the CDT Comps and the 5th channel is 2/4 on stable with LPF and separate gain control
Use the sub channel to power your 8" MB driver. I think its LPF goes between 30-400 Hz and an F-mod HPF between 50-75 Hz. There's your BP filter and it is actively controlled via the Alpine amp. The cool thing here, only need 2 RCA lines for all functions to work. If using rear channel fill, the HU can power them.
http://www.alpine-usa.com/
The.pdf file for this amp shows all the possible wiring configurations and yes, it is tri-mode compatable as well. But, the 5th channel is neat as it has it's own control system for blending the MB power and bandwidth to your exsisting system.
I can see this working very well for you. This amp will deliver 120 watts x 2 Full range for your CDT's and 200 watts to MB driver. That's your front channels off the HU and subs can become the rear channels if you wish.
Swez
P0werLifter on 09/25/2004 04:40:59
Alright Sweetness..thats the amplifier ill purchase then GRIN..only around $300 on ebay..not bad at all. Thanks Swez, ill be askin for more recomendations when i gather more materials.
-Jason
swez on 09/26/2004 07:15:03
Yep, been working with another fellow that has this amp and he is powering a single 10" sub and a set of Diamond Hex Comps with this amp.
He had all his gear installed Professionally ( a major expense and dissappointment) at 2 different shops. However, they got the Amp/HU/Speaker wiring wrong. We finally got the right wiring configuration and he is very please with the new results. Unfortunately, he was using a low power RF sub in wrong enclosure specs. (too big a box) The sub blew and now he has to get a new sub.
Now, he claims adequate power to the Comps and is "Very Satisfied" with the new sound up front. Think he's getting an Alpine SWR-1041D for the new sub. It takes more power and can handle the larger enclosure or just port the current one.
Swez
P0werLifter on 09/26/2004 14:20:47
GRIN im excited...things are starting to come together just waiting till my xXx comes in b4 i start building my enclosure, already have the design in my head, and the amprack should look really clean and trick molded into the front of the box. The only part of the amplifiers you'll be able to see is the very tops of them then im going to have a neon molded in where you cant see it so it illuminates the top of the amplifieris. Its going to take a lot of hours id imagine to build it..but it'll be worth the time and money to make a very nice custom enclosure.
He should be veryhappy with the Alpine SWR-1041D , good subs and will sound really clean. Everyones asking me why the heck i have all this stereo stuff back in my room. "i thought u were done" ...Its never "done" lol
-Jason
swez on 09/26/2004 18:30:11
"The only difference between men and boys, are the price and complexity of their favorite toys".... you may quote me...but not an original "quip".
PL, can just see you sitting there in your room at night... gazing at the mountain of boxes, spec sheets and shiney new gadgets; a huge "cheeze eating grin" of total satisfaction. What's he dreaming about??? (say others that drop by) "He has that far-away look in his eyes... like a fantasy trip to a new dimension or sumthin"..... LOL
They don't get it... but I think I do. It's probably like watching your first child being born from the womb of a loving mother and beloved wife. I have experienced that twice in my life and from my perspective... it doesn't get much better then that !!!
Uhmmmm, sorry for digressing a moment... but when will you start on your newest creation there SPL Dad?
Swez
My kids Dad
P0werLifter on 09/27/2004 00:25:26
Well once i recieve my XxX and pay for the rest of it, Im going to order my fiberglassing materials, buy my wood, start on the basic frame of the enclosure, the base, and the transmission line. Then ill buy the amplifier for the components / 8" woofer, and once i get that. ill get the dimensions and fit it in to the amprack, and start fiberglassing and molding things into place. I expect to start fabrication within the month.
Im going to install the CDT's and the kicks once i get my stereo wire next week, then just run em off the alpine i have right now.
So within 3mos it should all be finished..im going to take my time..no rushing lol.
Once i get my 8" sub, ill build my center consol that will house it, and the Epic 160, not only that but the relays and my wiring will be inside the consol out of sight.
-Jason
P0werLifter on 10/15/2004 01:16:32
Anyone heard the Adire Audio Koda 8" subwoofer? Im thinking about purchasing it since adire is well known and carries good products and building it in the center consol for the real tight Kick drum bass for SQ and have my 15 for the deep thunderous lows.
Any comments? suggestions as far as a good 8" driver is concerened? It will be run off a Alpine MRV-F450
-Jason
swez on 10/15/2004 09:12:52
Am working with a guy who is doing the same idea as you. He is powering his system with an Alpine F450 and sub with a MRD-300. He too likes the Koda 8 (as I do too) and the sub channel on the F450 has plenty of power. (200 RMS @ 4ohms)
He will be using all 4 channels to power 4 speakers. Your system needs more power (bridged 2 channels) as you have that huge PA amp and a XXX sub coming soon. So, in your case, a strong MB driver is a good idea. The Koda 8 is what... 150 watts RMS, about 86.3dB of SPL @ 1w. Not bad at all. Want to read more? $79.00/ea.
http://www.adireaudio.com/TextPages/Koda8PageFrameText.htm
Swez
P0werLifter on 10/15/2004 14:15:27
Cool...yah i think ill order the Koda once i order the F450. With the wattage on the 450 reaching around <850watts...and my setup for the single 15 is going to be <2300watts RMS thats already 3000watts+ . My single 200amp alternator will not have enouigh umph to support this system. Im going to need a >315amp alternator to support this system effectively.
Im considering ordering a alternator from "Mean Green Starters and Alternators" who claim their larger alt produces more than 300% charging power than stock. Stock alternators run at 105amperes. So that should be >300amperes.
Not only that but im going to be purchasing a Stinger 1700CCA battery + an isolater strickly for the sound system.
What do you say guys? sound good or neigh?
-Jason
P0werLifter on 10/23/2004 03:15:32
Update GRIN ....Recieved my XXX 15 yesterday...thing weighs about 65lbs by itself,,,Also recieved my Alpine MRV-F450 today.
Subenclosure is in the works, Once i get my fleece, and resin expander ill start glassing it. Also im going to be ordering my 8" Driver for the center consol here pretty quick.
If anyones interested in seeing the XXX, or the Enclosure in the works let me know, i can post em on here.
*-Jason
Victor on 10/23/2004 05:25:45
KOOL.. IT WUD BE GREAT TO SEE THAT HEAVY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT.. PLEASE POST THE PIC..
THANKS
VICTOR....
P0werLifter on 10/23/2004 12:55:58
K here it is GRIN
Im waiting to recieve my fleece and resin expander so i can start on the fiberglassing, the very front of the panel is missing off the enclosure right now because im building the amprack, will soon come together hopefully next week. The enclosure is tuned to 30hz, 7cubes available to the subwoofer after displacement of sub, and port factored in. The XXX will have 1800watts RMS to feet off of.
-Jason
Most of you already know that im going to be running 1 RE XXX 15 but for the real tight bass im considering purchasing a single 8" RE XXX and mount it in a sealed enclosure within the center consol im going to be building.
What are the issues with this type of setup? do i need to worry about the wave cancellation?
Thanks
-Jason USFLAG
Replies (18)
cplkittle on 09/22/2004 08:49:28
I have tinkered with this and found that cancellation only occurs when trying to mix subs that are only one size difference. This is due to the almost unavoidable overlap in frequency ranges. Using an 8" sub to accompany a 15 is an excellent idea and should sound very nice. Also locating the sub in the console is another good idea. The only problem I could possibly find with this setup is that 15's are relatively sluggish when it comes to response, while 8's are very quick. Putting an 8 closer to your ear than the 15 may result in a noticeable delay of sub frequencies coming from the 15. If you run the 8 full range, it might not be as noticeable. My only suggestion would be to tinker with delay time on the 8 to try to synchronize it with the 15.
ttocs on 09/22/2004 10:26:14
I think you would like it... It would have the best of both worlds with the 8's quick punch and the 15's brute pwr.
swez on 09/22/2004 11:05:23
This is common in Pro and HT applications. One massive woofer for the low end bass (20-80 Hz.) and a strong 8" MB driver for 80- about 300 Hz. The 8" MB will give you the kick and punch from drum kits and upper bass frequencies. The XXX sub provides the thunderous lows.
The key to making this come out right is not to have woofer and MB sharing common frequency bands and proper phase alignments. Since the cabin of your vehicle is relatively small... under 300 cf., delay time issues would be minimal. Having a quality bandpass or notch filter on the 8, is also important. Don't want to MB to bleed into sub range or overlap the mids too much either. The 8" needs it's own enclosure as well. Not too large either... maybe 0.3 cf at most. Check RE specs and recommendations before you dive in.
Finally, it is often best to mount the sub and MB on the same plane. (separate enclosures to be sure) This way, sound waves coming from both cones leave the same plane at the same time and travel into the cabin at about the same velosity. Good phase alignment by doing it this way. However, if you are determined to mount the 8" in a console, may have to use the sub amp phase angle circuit to adjust for proper phase alignments between subs and all other components (drivers) in the system. Phase alignment of all drivers in the system are critical to high SQL performance.
Swez
P0werLifter on 09/22/2004 13:52:17
Alright cool, sounds like a good plan to me, just a little bit tricky but overall should sound nice GRIN. I think i might start to focus a lil more on SQL in my truck rather than SPL due to the fact that soon im going to purchase a Honda Civic Hatchback or a VW Golf and make that my project SPL competition vehicle. BUT...with that single 15" ported to 28Hz ill still be Loud and Proud when I need to be HAPPY .That way i have the best of both worlds.
As far as mounting the 8" Driver, it would be best to mount it by the kick panels where my CDT's are? That might be tough considering i only have so much foot area in my cab. Ive seen a guy that had a pure SQ setup in his toyota tacoma that had an 8" woofer build in with the dash using fiberglass...that system was awesome.
I could also build the 8" up close to the dash in the center consol so it would be closer the where the CDT's are mounted..just in the center of the cab rather than on the side.
Any ideas? I will talk to my buddy at the shop about enclosure recs for the 8".
Thanks Guys
-Jason
swez on 09/24/2004 09:22:27
Have you given much thought to how to power this 8" midbass driver? Yes, the PA amp you have now has the power and flexability... but the MB driver will have to blend in with the rest of your system w/o excess cancellations between the CDT's and your sub placements.
Seems to me, driver placement, power requirements and a solid BP filtering are very important aspects to consider here. The amp that will drive your CDT Comps... is it Tri-mode compatible? Meaning the CDT's each have a channel and the MB driver is bridged across the outputs with its own BP filter network. Most amps can do this feature and there are several ways to configure this addition. The key componet to this addition is the bandbass passive crossover network. You may have to make your own filter.
Finally, the power to this 8" MB driver does not have to be a super powered either. This is only for fill in purposes. (100 watts RMS is plenty) So the RE 8" XXX may not be needed. A lesser speaker will work and save you cash for other things needed.
Think it through....
Swez
P0werLifter on 09/24/2004 14:53:59
If i remember correctly my Alpine amplifier for my components im using is a Tri-Mode compatible but im not totally positive. Ive been thinking about buying another amplifier anyway as this one has some scratches on it and for my new sub enclosure im going to be building a nice amprack on the front of them to where their mounted flush with the enclosure and only the very tops are showing...no wires and i want a very nice clean look.
That way i can also amplify my mothers stereo system and start working on her setup after i get mine where its at.
Anny Suggestions as far an an amplifier that will do what i need in this configuration?
-Jason
swez on 09/24/2004 16:40:38
Ahhhh... this is where a 5 channel amp may be very handy. The Alpine MRV-F450 can be bridged to a strong 3 channel version. The front & rear channels are bridged for the CDT Comps and the 5th channel is 2/4 on stable with LPF and separate gain control
Use the sub channel to power your 8" MB driver. I think its LPF goes between 30-400 Hz and an F-mod HPF between 50-75 Hz. There's your BP filter and it is actively controlled via the Alpine amp. The cool thing here, only need 2 RCA lines for all functions to work. If using rear channel fill, the HU can power them.
http://www.alpine-usa.com/
The.pdf file for this amp shows all the possible wiring configurations and yes, it is tri-mode compatable as well. But, the 5th channel is neat as it has it's own control system for blending the MB power and bandwidth to your exsisting system.
I can see this working very well for you. This amp will deliver 120 watts x 2 Full range for your CDT's and 200 watts to MB driver. That's your front channels off the HU and subs can become the rear channels if you wish.
Swez
P0werLifter on 09/25/2004 04:40:59
Alright Sweetness..thats the amplifier ill purchase then GRIN..only around $300 on ebay..not bad at all. Thanks Swez, ill be askin for more recomendations when i gather more materials.
-Jason
swez on 09/26/2004 07:15:03
Yep, been working with another fellow that has this amp and he is powering a single 10" sub and a set of Diamond Hex Comps with this amp.
He had all his gear installed Professionally ( a major expense and dissappointment) at 2 different shops. However, they got the Amp/HU/Speaker wiring wrong. We finally got the right wiring configuration and he is very please with the new results. Unfortunately, he was using a low power RF sub in wrong enclosure specs. (too big a box) The sub blew and now he has to get a new sub.
Now, he claims adequate power to the Comps and is "Very Satisfied" with the new sound up front. Think he's getting an Alpine SWR-1041D for the new sub. It takes more power and can handle the larger enclosure or just port the current one.
Swez
P0werLifter on 09/26/2004 14:20:47
GRIN im excited...things are starting to come together just waiting till my xXx comes in b4 i start building my enclosure, already have the design in my head, and the amprack should look really clean and trick molded into the front of the box. The only part of the amplifiers you'll be able to see is the very tops of them then im going to have a neon molded in where you cant see it so it illuminates the top of the amplifieris. Its going to take a lot of hours id imagine to build it..but it'll be worth the time and money to make a very nice custom enclosure.
He should be veryhappy with the Alpine SWR-1041D , good subs and will sound really clean. Everyones asking me why the heck i have all this stereo stuff back in my room. "i thought u were done" ...Its never "done" lol
-Jason
swez on 09/26/2004 18:30:11
"The only difference between men and boys, are the price and complexity of their favorite toys".... you may quote me...but not an original "quip".
PL, can just see you sitting there in your room at night... gazing at the mountain of boxes, spec sheets and shiney new gadgets; a huge "cheeze eating grin" of total satisfaction. What's he dreaming about??? (say others that drop by) "He has that far-away look in his eyes... like a fantasy trip to a new dimension or sumthin"..... LOL
They don't get it... but I think I do. It's probably like watching your first child being born from the womb of a loving mother and beloved wife. I have experienced that twice in my life and from my perspective... it doesn't get much better then that !!!
Uhmmmm, sorry for digressing a moment... but when will you start on your newest creation there SPL Dad?
Swez
My kids Dad
P0werLifter on 09/27/2004 00:25:26
Well once i recieve my XxX and pay for the rest of it, Im going to order my fiberglassing materials, buy my wood, start on the basic frame of the enclosure, the base, and the transmission line. Then ill buy the amplifier for the components / 8" woofer, and once i get that. ill get the dimensions and fit it in to the amprack, and start fiberglassing and molding things into place. I expect to start fabrication within the month.
Im going to install the CDT's and the kicks once i get my stereo wire next week, then just run em off the alpine i have right now.
So within 3mos it should all be finished..im going to take my time..no rushing lol.
Once i get my 8" sub, ill build my center consol that will house it, and the Epic 160, not only that but the relays and my wiring will be inside the consol out of sight.
-Jason
P0werLifter on 10/15/2004 01:16:32
Anyone heard the Adire Audio Koda 8" subwoofer? Im thinking about purchasing it since adire is well known and carries good products and building it in the center consol for the real tight Kick drum bass for SQ and have my 15 for the deep thunderous lows.
Any comments? suggestions as far as a good 8" driver is concerened? It will be run off a Alpine MRV-F450
-Jason
swez on 10/15/2004 09:12:52
Am working with a guy who is doing the same idea as you. He is powering his system with an Alpine F450 and sub with a MRD-300. He too likes the Koda 8 (as I do too) and the sub channel on the F450 has plenty of power. (200 RMS @ 4ohms)
He will be using all 4 channels to power 4 speakers. Your system needs more power (bridged 2 channels) as you have that huge PA amp and a XXX sub coming soon. So, in your case, a strong MB driver is a good idea. The Koda 8 is what... 150 watts RMS, about 86.3dB of SPL @ 1w. Not bad at all. Want to read more? $79.00/ea.
http://www.adireaudio.com/TextPages/Koda8PageFrameText.htm
Swez
P0werLifter on 10/15/2004 14:15:27
Cool...yah i think ill order the Koda once i order the F450. With the wattage on the 450 reaching around <850watts...and my setup for the single 15 is going to be <2300watts RMS thats already 3000watts+ . My single 200amp alternator will not have enouigh umph to support this system. Im going to need a >315amp alternator to support this system effectively.
Im considering ordering a alternator from "Mean Green Starters and Alternators" who claim their larger alt produces more than 300% charging power than stock. Stock alternators run at 105amperes. So that should be >300amperes.
Not only that but im going to be purchasing a Stinger 1700CCA battery + an isolater strickly for the sound system.
What do you say guys? sound good or neigh?
-Jason
P0werLifter on 10/23/2004 03:15:32
Update GRIN ....Recieved my XXX 15 yesterday...thing weighs about 65lbs by itself,,,Also recieved my Alpine MRV-F450 today.
Subenclosure is in the works, Once i get my fleece, and resin expander ill start glassing it. Also im going to be ordering my 8" Driver for the center consol here pretty quick.
If anyones interested in seeing the XXX, or the Enclosure in the works let me know, i can post em on here.
*-Jason
Victor on 10/23/2004 05:25:45
KOOL.. IT WUD BE GREAT TO SEE THAT HEAVY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT.. PLEASE POST THE PIC..
THANKS
VICTOR....
P0werLifter on 10/23/2004 12:55:58
K here it is GRIN
Im waiting to recieve my fleece and resin expander so i can start on the fiberglassing, the very front of the panel is missing off the enclosure right now because im building the amprack, will soon come together hopefully next week. The enclosure is tuned to 30hz, 7cubes available to the subwoofer after displacement of sub, and port factored in. The XXX will have 1800watts RMS to feet off of.
-Jason
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
