Good Afternoon,
Recently new to your site, but it i has been most helpful in gaining an understanding of car audio. I am in the processes of planning an SQL installation and would like your help and suggestions.
Presently Have a Sony CDX - F7705X HU, 6.5 PPI PC650C front speakers and 6X9 PPI PC690C in the rear dash.
I want to put in a single 12" or 2 10"s. I am leading toward 2 JL W0's, with a JBL 600.1 amp. and then a 4 channel amp for the fronts and rears.
Suggestions? Imput? Also, If i do go with this plan will I have to upgrade my elctrical?
Also, the 6.5 in the front have a 60W RMS and the 6x9 in the rear right now have a 75W RMS. Both sets are running off the HU, which i believe is only has a standard 45X4 amp built in. Am I potentially gunna have a problem?
Chris
Replies (7)
2000Civic on 09/16/2004 14:27:12
Sorry I made a mistake re: subs..was thinking of 2 JL W3's
chris
P0werLifter on 09/16/2004 14:32:51
Im not really familiar with PPI products but one possible problem I can see here is your electricals.
A stock Alternator on a given automobile is about 100amperes. It takes 50-60amperes to run you stock electrical systems so that leaves you with <50amps to play with give or take depending on your alt. To find out how much of a draw your system will put in your electrical system add up the total wattage divided by the efficiency factor divided by 13.5 (your charging systems voltage)
For example..lets say you run that 600.1 amplifier alone. The 600.1 amplifier is a Class D amplifier therefor they run about 90% efficient. 600/0.9= 666watts of current input to produce 600watts output. Now divide 666/13.5= 49.38 Ampere draw on your alternator alone just to run that single amplifier.
If you do choose to run another amplifier on top of the 600.1 to power your other speakers, I forsee some electrical issues. If the current draw is fairly low on the amplifiers and you only see minor light dimming, then you might get by with upgrading your Alt-Bat, Bat-Ground and doubling your grounding strap to your frame. Then upgrade to a High Cold Cranking Amp Battery (+850CCA). That might get you by.
If that doesnt help, then upgrading your alternator is in order. You should be fine upgrading your alternator to about a 150amp. Instead of buying a brand new alt, you might want to try calling around some alternator shops in your town to see how much they would charge you to rewind your stock alternator to produce higher amperage.
Hope this helps
-Jason
2000Civic on 09/16/2004 15:15:50
Gotcha, Thank you!
Question with regards to my present set up of the speakers: becuase the speakers have a greater RMS then that of the built in amp in the HU. am I causing any harm or simply not getting the potential out the the speakers?
Would the W3's and JBL 600 be good choices/combo? any others u would suggest looking at?
P0werLifter on 09/16/2004 16:14:40
In regards to your question about possibly damaging the speakers.
You dont need to worry about giving the speaker a lower continious wattage as long as its clean undistorted power. Manytimes the speakers get damaged is from overpowering them with distorted power or amplifying them and trying to push the amplifier to hard causing it to clip the soundwave resulting in distored sound and power which will damage the speaker.
As far as your question with the W3's and the JBL 600...that would be a good combination for you as your main focus is SQL. Id reccomend 2 10" woofers in a sealed enclosure for the tight punchy bass with good transient response.
Alpine Type R's
Adire Shivas
Infinity Kappas
and there are many others that will produce good SQ for your application.
If theres anything else we can help you with feel free to ask..and Id like to say "welcome to ClubKnowledge"
-Jason
swez on 09/16/2004 18:40:28
Agreed, a Civic has a pretty small electrical system. From others who have posted that have them, seems like 85A is the max output of the stock ALT and ~500 CCA rated BAT. That's at >2000 RPM. At idle, that number is much lower. (say 40A or so)
That does not leave a whole lot of room for adding large power amps w/o upgrading the electricals. As PL mentioned, the 600.1 alone can pull >50A at full power. It's max power draw is 57A. The 4 channel amp mentioned, will need at least 30-40A to keep up with your bass machine. (assuming 50-75 WRMS x 4 here)
The HU you mentioned will deliver about 18 watts RMS per channel. Not bad for low powered speakers or what you have now in the PG line. However, to get the most performance from the PG speakers mentioned, 50-75 WRMS will make a big difference in sound clarity and audio output.
Finally, the JL W3 series is a great sub. A bit on the expensive side if you don't have connections for lower prices, buy fine gear to be sure. If you want quality bass and have money left over for electrical upgrades, consider Alpine SWR or SWS subs, Infinity Kappa's, eDesigns, Resonance Engineering or other well known brands that perform well.... but cost about half of the JL's mentioned. The Adire Shiva is a very nice sub for 125.00 each. This is a 12" sub and does not come in 10" version to date.
Swez
PS The JBL 300.1 is good alternative to the 600.1. It draws half the current and is only 3dB less power output than the 600.1. (27A max.) You can make up for the lost SPL by going ported/vented style sub enclosure and use 1 or 2 subs.
A single sub can deliver low 130's dB of bass power. If you used the 600.1 and 2 subs, would pick up about 6 dB more gain to almost 140 dB of bass. But the 300.1 can be used with little or no additional electrical upgrades.
Welcome to CK
2000Civic on 10/4/2004 13:54:06
Hello again, has been a lit while sence I have been on the site, I have been checking out some amps in the mean time. Taking into consideration the the small alt my civic has and the desire not to deal with electrical upgrades I have chosen to only run 2 smaller 10", JL W0's w/ 125 RMS each. I thus have a few more questions. Is it possible to run a single amp to power my subs, fronts and rears, such as a 5 channel amp? Will somehting in the 520-600 RMS range satify my need and not require an electrical upgrade?
ttocs on 10/4/2004 15:16:24
that should be fine....
Recently new to your site, but it i has been most helpful in gaining an understanding of car audio. I am in the processes of planning an SQL installation and would like your help and suggestions.
Presently Have a Sony CDX - F7705X HU, 6.5 PPI PC650C front speakers and 6X9 PPI PC690C in the rear dash.
I want to put in a single 12" or 2 10"s. I am leading toward 2 JL W0's, with a JBL 600.1 amp. and then a 4 channel amp for the fronts and rears.
Suggestions? Imput? Also, If i do go with this plan will I have to upgrade my elctrical?
Also, the 6.5 in the front have a 60W RMS and the 6x9 in the rear right now have a 75W RMS. Both sets are running off the HU, which i believe is only has a standard 45X4 amp built in. Am I potentially gunna have a problem?
Chris
Replies (7)
2000Civic on 09/16/2004 14:27:12
Sorry I made a mistake re: subs..was thinking of 2 JL W3's
chris
P0werLifter on 09/16/2004 14:32:51
Im not really familiar with PPI products but one possible problem I can see here is your electricals.
A stock Alternator on a given automobile is about 100amperes. It takes 50-60amperes to run you stock electrical systems so that leaves you with <50amps to play with give or take depending on your alt. To find out how much of a draw your system will put in your electrical system add up the total wattage divided by the efficiency factor divided by 13.5 (your charging systems voltage)
For example..lets say you run that 600.1 amplifier alone. The 600.1 amplifier is a Class D amplifier therefor they run about 90% efficient. 600/0.9= 666watts of current input to produce 600watts output. Now divide 666/13.5= 49.38 Ampere draw on your alternator alone just to run that single amplifier.
If you do choose to run another amplifier on top of the 600.1 to power your other speakers, I forsee some electrical issues. If the current draw is fairly low on the amplifiers and you only see minor light dimming, then you might get by with upgrading your Alt-Bat, Bat-Ground and doubling your grounding strap to your frame. Then upgrade to a High Cold Cranking Amp Battery (+850CCA). That might get you by.
If that doesnt help, then upgrading your alternator is in order. You should be fine upgrading your alternator to about a 150amp. Instead of buying a brand new alt, you might want to try calling around some alternator shops in your town to see how much they would charge you to rewind your stock alternator to produce higher amperage.
Hope this helps
-Jason
2000Civic on 09/16/2004 15:15:50
Gotcha, Thank you!
Question with regards to my present set up of the speakers: becuase the speakers have a greater RMS then that of the built in amp in the HU. am I causing any harm or simply not getting the potential out the the speakers?
Would the W3's and JBL 600 be good choices/combo? any others u would suggest looking at?
P0werLifter on 09/16/2004 16:14:40
In regards to your question about possibly damaging the speakers.
You dont need to worry about giving the speaker a lower continious wattage as long as its clean undistorted power. Manytimes the speakers get damaged is from overpowering them with distorted power or amplifying them and trying to push the amplifier to hard causing it to clip the soundwave resulting in distored sound and power which will damage the speaker.
As far as your question with the W3's and the JBL 600...that would be a good combination for you as your main focus is SQL. Id reccomend 2 10" woofers in a sealed enclosure for the tight punchy bass with good transient response.
Alpine Type R's
Adire Shivas
Infinity Kappas
and there are many others that will produce good SQ for your application.
If theres anything else we can help you with feel free to ask..and Id like to say "welcome to ClubKnowledge"
-Jason
swez on 09/16/2004 18:40:28
Agreed, a Civic has a pretty small electrical system. From others who have posted that have them, seems like 85A is the max output of the stock ALT and ~500 CCA rated BAT. That's at >2000 RPM. At idle, that number is much lower. (say 40A or so)
That does not leave a whole lot of room for adding large power amps w/o upgrading the electricals. As PL mentioned, the 600.1 alone can pull >50A at full power. It's max power draw is 57A. The 4 channel amp mentioned, will need at least 30-40A to keep up with your bass machine. (assuming 50-75 WRMS x 4 here)
The HU you mentioned will deliver about 18 watts RMS per channel. Not bad for low powered speakers or what you have now in the PG line. However, to get the most performance from the PG speakers mentioned, 50-75 WRMS will make a big difference in sound clarity and audio output.
Finally, the JL W3 series is a great sub. A bit on the expensive side if you don't have connections for lower prices, buy fine gear to be sure. If you want quality bass and have money left over for electrical upgrades, consider Alpine SWR or SWS subs, Infinity Kappa's, eDesigns, Resonance Engineering or other well known brands that perform well.... but cost about half of the JL's mentioned. The Adire Shiva is a very nice sub for 125.00 each. This is a 12" sub and does not come in 10" version to date.
Swez
PS The JBL 300.1 is good alternative to the 600.1. It draws half the current and is only 3dB less power output than the 600.1. (27A max.) You can make up for the lost SPL by going ported/vented style sub enclosure and use 1 or 2 subs.
A single sub can deliver low 130's dB of bass power. If you used the 600.1 and 2 subs, would pick up about 6 dB more gain to almost 140 dB of bass. But the 300.1 can be used with little or no additional electrical upgrades.
Welcome to CK
2000Civic on 10/4/2004 13:54:06
Hello again, has been a lit while sence I have been on the site, I have been checking out some amps in the mean time. Taking into consideration the the small alt my civic has and the desire not to deal with electrical upgrades I have chosen to only run 2 smaller 10", JL W0's w/ 125 RMS each. I thus have a few more questions. Is it possible to run a single amp to power my subs, fronts and rears, such as a 5 channel amp? Will somehting in the 520-600 RMS range satify my need and not require an electrical upgrade?
ttocs on 10/4/2004 15:16:24
that should be fine....
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