Alright so its a Lumina Z34 with the Bose audio upgrage.
Im starting a new full system, spending anywhere from 1200-3600(cdn). Im looking for sound quality with just enough bass to feel it. Im thinking 2 12's, possibly 1 13" focal or something. trunk space isn't really an issue, i could probably fit 12 subs back there if i tried.
The front speakers are 4" Bose in the doors so im thinking keeping them 4's if there are some good ones offered? (help me out there) and if not 5 1/4's (whats my best bet there?) and which would you recommend, 5 1/4s or 4s.
Rear speakers, right now they're rockford punch 6x9's, they're not bad, but i dont like the sound 6x9's put out, what would be a good replacement speaker (size, and make)? (the speakers are mounted pointing at the roof with the rear of the speaker in the trunk)
Tweeters? good idea bad idea, A pillars?
Also, the way my car is set up, there is almost more bass outside of the car then there is inside the car, the trunk has no soundproofing, thats all in the seats (to keep the weight down, its supposed to be a slalom car), so i was thinking of putting a port between the trunk and the interior, basically in the same location as the 6x9's. (ill probably soundmat the entire trunk at a later date)
so basically i need to know what my best bet is for an amp(s), sub(s), and then speaker size basically, headunit is probably going to be alpine, i like their looks.
So anyways im thinking of around 400-1000watts rms in total, maybe less, the stock electrical is having a hard enough time dealing with my current 880 watt system (probably 300 rms).
http://www.vaperz.net/joe.html ("world champion" Z34 for stereo, if you'd like to see an example of what this car looks like/space etc.) ...
(the current system is a carry-over from my '86 hatch mustang, which was an SPL system, didn't take much to make a little car like that shake)
Replies (10)
Geezer on 08/24/2004 18:06:55
I can't address all of your questions, but here's my opinion on a few.
If you are going for SQ, ditch the rear speakers all together. If you really want something in the back, use less power than the front or your sound stage will get pulled to the rear. Two 12s should give you plenty of bass; you may even be able to get away with one depending on the particular sub/power/enclosure. Opening a tunnel from the trunk to the cab will certainly help. (If you don't use the rear speakers their mounting holes can serve this purpose). As for front speakers, "generally" speaking the larger the cone the better the midbass/bass response. For this reason, I'd suggest using 6.5", if you can, but if not go with 5.25". (You could go with the 4" and add MB drivers if there's room for them. Kick panels, doors, etc). I really like dedicated tweeters. Ideally, they should be located as close to the midrange driver as possible. Some have better dispersment than others so can be located further away. Getting a component set would help here as the crossover would be made specifically for the MB/tweeter combo. There seems to be a fair debate about tweeters in A pillars. The only real way to determine what is best is to try various temporary locations and plant them permanently where they sound best to YOU. Amps will depend of the other components you get. If you forego the rear speakers a single four channel may be all you need. (Especially if you get 2 ohm fronts and sub(s)). It's hard to go wrong with an Alpine HU, so no comment there.
Good luck.
swez on 08/24/2004 18:58:29
You mentioned the RF 6x9's sound not so hot? What's the specifics? Are they muddy, boomy, middy, tinny, too bright etc.
The front stage is the one to focus on for your best sound in MB,MR and highs. As Geezer mentioned, the larger the cone, the better the MB performance will be. If you don't have the door space for a 6.5" Comp set, consider using kick panels. They are a bit pricey, but sound much better than most traditional door mounts.
Subs... depends on the music you like most. A pair of 10's or 12's is good or one potent 12". The type of music you prefer will dictate the sub used and space required for your sub system.
Amp... depends on how much bass you want and your electricals can support. Do you know the ampere rating of that ALT in there now? Common is a 105A, if this is a 3.8 liter engine. Can easily upgrade to a 120A or higher. A 120 will give you 60-70A. of add on gear.
Say more and we can continue brainstorming with you.
Swez
platinumdevil on 08/29/2004 16:39:21
Sorry i didn't get back to you guys. I went on vacation. As for the Rockfords, they're too bright and the midbass sounds muddy.
For doors i should have no problem with a 6.5 set. I believe the world champ Z34 has 2 5" MB quarts in each door, i could be mistaken.
Music i listen to is pretty much everything short of orchestral. Mostly soft rock/hard rock depending on who's in my car. The engine in this car is the 3.4twinDOHC, its the black sheep in GM's lineup, the engine code is X and they don't make any parts for it. The alternator is underneath the engine, i dont think theirs room for a bigger one. Might be able to go to 120, i havent really heard. I have no idea what the current ampere rating is.
Subwise i want the bass to be very punchy. I want to feel it on the drum beats, not just on the long drawn out bass like rap songs.
The only thing i REALLY want to avoid is the treble that gives you headaches and makes your ears burn. Most of the people i know with SPL systems have that kind of treble. I dont really know much about tweeters, what is one of the better tweeter companies and what should i look for in a tweeter. Of course ill have to listen to them to see what i like, but just as a general idea of what to look for.
swez on 08/29/2004 17:03:19
OK, good rundown on the matter at hand.
Punchy bass comes from small, compact enclosures. Many like 10's for that reason alone. However, it is easy to do the same with 12" subs as well. It's more a matter of EQ settings and filtering out too much low end bass. There are several ways to do this well. Just depends on the gear you buy. (HU features especially)
As for front speakers, go with Components for best clarity and
versatility. If you can mount them, the CDT CL-61a goes for 150.00 a pair. Comes in 6.5 MB and either Ti or silk dome tweeters. If you don't like bright tweeters, use silk domes... more natural sounding.
As for amping, depends on how much fullness to your sound you desire. A HO Alpine HU offers 25-27 watts RMS x 4 channels. That may be enough for your tastes if the speakers you use are moderately high efficiency. A speaker with 88dB @ 1 watt will net a tad over +100 dB in your car.
Sub and amp: No need to go crazy on bass power. Use a Class D or T MONO amp. They are very efficient with power, lower cost than most 2 channel bretheren and can deliver good audio power without killing your ALT/BAT. A solid 300 RMS amp will deliver over 125dB of bass if you want that much. There are many great subs out there for well under 200.00. A single sub with that power rating is not too expensive either.
Also, there are a lot of off brand "dogs" out there too. Avoid them. Listen to a few and you'll know the difference between an Alpine, Infinity, JBL, Rockford or JL. These are all great subs with a few low end subs that are not quiet up to par as well.
Swez
platinumdevil on 08/29/2004 17:49:48
Wow those CDT's look very nice. Thanks for all the help (yet again). I dont know where i would be without this site or the people on it.
Those CDT's are very appealing, i made 160cdn this week, so say 122 american, plus probably 40+ dollars american for shipping. If i were to buy those, i probably wouldn't be able to afford a better amp for a few weeks, probably how long they'll take to get here.
My rough estimate, adding 40 dollars american shippping and handling is 248.97 canadian. My friends Focal component set with 5.25's was 500.00 used if you'd like a general idea of the prices here.
Where would you recommend me purchasing these from?
Geezer on 08/29/2004 18:49:16
thezeb.com has the CDT-61A's for $150. (As I understand it, these were painted the wrong color so are being sold for half price. The speaker itself has not deficiencies).
ttocs on 08/29/2004 18:50:29
before you plan on any speaker size, take the door panel off and look at the speakers. Bose likes to take an 8-10 inch hole and put the enclosure/amp/speaker. This piece is completly molded and has two options, in the car or out of the car....... If that is the case you will need to find a way to make a baffle or mount the speaker some how........
platinumdevil on 08/29/2004 19:09:58
hmm ok, i've had them off once because i ran wires from the bose speakers to my deck... since they had their 40 wires going back to the Bose amp... I was thinking of doing something custom anyways, trying my hand at a fiberglass enclosure in the door. point the speakers more towards the listener... or away, which is better actually?
http://www.cardomain.com/id/platinumz34 - near the bottom you'll see pictures of the door and the speakers. They're 4inch bose speakers with a little port, the doors themselves are like 4+ inches deep so no problem fitting the 2.8" deep CDT's.
uochronos on 08/30/2004 05:55:08
the cdts are 149$ as swez mentioned and free shipping i belive that include canada... at www.thezeb.com very speedy shipping as well. and great support from them to. i love my cdt's
platinumdevil on 08/30/2004 17:46:03
Ahh free shipping, CDT's look even better :). I think i'll order some tonight. If i can't get them to fit in my doors i'll just make boxes for them for now i guess...
Im starting a new full system, spending anywhere from 1200-3600(cdn). Im looking for sound quality with just enough bass to feel it. Im thinking 2 12's, possibly 1 13" focal or something. trunk space isn't really an issue, i could probably fit 12 subs back there if i tried.
The front speakers are 4" Bose in the doors so im thinking keeping them 4's if there are some good ones offered? (help me out there) and if not 5 1/4's (whats my best bet there?) and which would you recommend, 5 1/4s or 4s.
Rear speakers, right now they're rockford punch 6x9's, they're not bad, but i dont like the sound 6x9's put out, what would be a good replacement speaker (size, and make)? (the speakers are mounted pointing at the roof with the rear of the speaker in the trunk)
Tweeters? good idea bad idea, A pillars?
Also, the way my car is set up, there is almost more bass outside of the car then there is inside the car, the trunk has no soundproofing, thats all in the seats (to keep the weight down, its supposed to be a slalom car), so i was thinking of putting a port between the trunk and the interior, basically in the same location as the 6x9's. (ill probably soundmat the entire trunk at a later date)
so basically i need to know what my best bet is for an amp(s), sub(s), and then speaker size basically, headunit is probably going to be alpine, i like their looks.
So anyways im thinking of around 400-1000watts rms in total, maybe less, the stock electrical is having a hard enough time dealing with my current 880 watt system (probably 300 rms).
http://www.vaperz.net/joe.html ("world champion" Z34 for stereo, if you'd like to see an example of what this car looks like/space etc.) ...
(the current system is a carry-over from my '86 hatch mustang, which was an SPL system, didn't take much to make a little car like that shake)
Replies (10)
Geezer on 08/24/2004 18:06:55
I can't address all of your questions, but here's my opinion on a few.
If you are going for SQ, ditch the rear speakers all together. If you really want something in the back, use less power than the front or your sound stage will get pulled to the rear. Two 12s should give you plenty of bass; you may even be able to get away with one depending on the particular sub/power/enclosure. Opening a tunnel from the trunk to the cab will certainly help. (If you don't use the rear speakers their mounting holes can serve this purpose). As for front speakers, "generally" speaking the larger the cone the better the midbass/bass response. For this reason, I'd suggest using 6.5", if you can, but if not go with 5.25". (You could go with the 4" and add MB drivers if there's room for them. Kick panels, doors, etc). I really like dedicated tweeters. Ideally, they should be located as close to the midrange driver as possible. Some have better dispersment than others so can be located further away. Getting a component set would help here as the crossover would be made specifically for the MB/tweeter combo. There seems to be a fair debate about tweeters in A pillars. The only real way to determine what is best is to try various temporary locations and plant them permanently where they sound best to YOU. Amps will depend of the other components you get. If you forego the rear speakers a single four channel may be all you need. (Especially if you get 2 ohm fronts and sub(s)). It's hard to go wrong with an Alpine HU, so no comment there.
Good luck.
swez on 08/24/2004 18:58:29
You mentioned the RF 6x9's sound not so hot? What's the specifics? Are they muddy, boomy, middy, tinny, too bright etc.
The front stage is the one to focus on for your best sound in MB,MR and highs. As Geezer mentioned, the larger the cone, the better the MB performance will be. If you don't have the door space for a 6.5" Comp set, consider using kick panels. They are a bit pricey, but sound much better than most traditional door mounts.
Subs... depends on the music you like most. A pair of 10's or 12's is good or one potent 12". The type of music you prefer will dictate the sub used and space required for your sub system.
Amp... depends on how much bass you want and your electricals can support. Do you know the ampere rating of that ALT in there now? Common is a 105A, if this is a 3.8 liter engine. Can easily upgrade to a 120A or higher. A 120 will give you 60-70A. of add on gear.
Say more and we can continue brainstorming with you.
Swez
platinumdevil on 08/29/2004 16:39:21
Sorry i didn't get back to you guys. I went on vacation. As for the Rockfords, they're too bright and the midbass sounds muddy.
For doors i should have no problem with a 6.5 set. I believe the world champ Z34 has 2 5" MB quarts in each door, i could be mistaken.
Music i listen to is pretty much everything short of orchestral. Mostly soft rock/hard rock depending on who's in my car. The engine in this car is the 3.4twinDOHC, its the black sheep in GM's lineup, the engine code is X and they don't make any parts for it. The alternator is underneath the engine, i dont think theirs room for a bigger one. Might be able to go to 120, i havent really heard. I have no idea what the current ampere rating is.
Subwise i want the bass to be very punchy. I want to feel it on the drum beats, not just on the long drawn out bass like rap songs.
The only thing i REALLY want to avoid is the treble that gives you headaches and makes your ears burn. Most of the people i know with SPL systems have that kind of treble. I dont really know much about tweeters, what is one of the better tweeter companies and what should i look for in a tweeter. Of course ill have to listen to them to see what i like, but just as a general idea of what to look for.
swez on 08/29/2004 17:03:19
OK, good rundown on the matter at hand.
Punchy bass comes from small, compact enclosures. Many like 10's for that reason alone. However, it is easy to do the same with 12" subs as well. It's more a matter of EQ settings and filtering out too much low end bass. There are several ways to do this well. Just depends on the gear you buy. (HU features especially)
As for front speakers, go with Components for best clarity and
versatility. If you can mount them, the CDT CL-61a goes for 150.00 a pair. Comes in 6.5 MB and either Ti or silk dome tweeters. If you don't like bright tweeters, use silk domes... more natural sounding.
As for amping, depends on how much fullness to your sound you desire. A HO Alpine HU offers 25-27 watts RMS x 4 channels. That may be enough for your tastes if the speakers you use are moderately high efficiency. A speaker with 88dB @ 1 watt will net a tad over +100 dB in your car.
Sub and amp: No need to go crazy on bass power. Use a Class D or T MONO amp. They are very efficient with power, lower cost than most 2 channel bretheren and can deliver good audio power without killing your ALT/BAT. A solid 300 RMS amp will deliver over 125dB of bass if you want that much. There are many great subs out there for well under 200.00. A single sub with that power rating is not too expensive either.
Also, there are a lot of off brand "dogs" out there too. Avoid them. Listen to a few and you'll know the difference between an Alpine, Infinity, JBL, Rockford or JL. These are all great subs with a few low end subs that are not quiet up to par as well.
Swez
platinumdevil on 08/29/2004 17:49:48
Wow those CDT's look very nice. Thanks for all the help (yet again). I dont know where i would be without this site or the people on it.
Those CDT's are very appealing, i made 160cdn this week, so say 122 american, plus probably 40+ dollars american for shipping. If i were to buy those, i probably wouldn't be able to afford a better amp for a few weeks, probably how long they'll take to get here.
My rough estimate, adding 40 dollars american shippping and handling is 248.97 canadian. My friends Focal component set with 5.25's was 500.00 used if you'd like a general idea of the prices here.
Where would you recommend me purchasing these from?
Geezer on 08/29/2004 18:49:16
thezeb.com has the CDT-61A's for $150. (As I understand it, these were painted the wrong color so are being sold for half price. The speaker itself has not deficiencies).
ttocs on 08/29/2004 18:50:29
before you plan on any speaker size, take the door panel off and look at the speakers. Bose likes to take an 8-10 inch hole and put the enclosure/amp/speaker. This piece is completly molded and has two options, in the car or out of the car....... If that is the case you will need to find a way to make a baffle or mount the speaker some how........
platinumdevil on 08/29/2004 19:09:58
hmm ok, i've had them off once because i ran wires from the bose speakers to my deck... since they had their 40 wires going back to the Bose amp... I was thinking of doing something custom anyways, trying my hand at a fiberglass enclosure in the door. point the speakers more towards the listener... or away, which is better actually?
http://www.cardomain.com/id/platinumz34 - near the bottom you'll see pictures of the door and the speakers. They're 4inch bose speakers with a little port, the doors themselves are like 4+ inches deep so no problem fitting the 2.8" deep CDT's.
uochronos on 08/30/2004 05:55:08
the cdts are 149$ as swez mentioned and free shipping i belive that include canada... at www.thezeb.com very speedy shipping as well. and great support from them to. i love my cdt's
platinumdevil on 08/30/2004 17:46:03
Ahh free shipping, CDT's look even better :). I think i'll order some tonight. If i can't get them to fit in my doors i'll just make boxes for them for now i guess...
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