If anyone is interested I completed my vented/transmission line enclosure for my 12"Type R yesterday. Other than the build errors on the front pannel there is a hugh difference in the bass output and how low it plays over a sealed box.
The only problem is that I cut my sub hole too big and there are air leeks and the box now makes a chirping sound. I cant hear it much in the front of the car but when I pop the trunk it is REALLY noticable. I sure that this cannot be good for the sub. Does anybody have any tips on how to fix this or is it possible to remove the front pannel and make a new one?
Thanks,
Jason
PS At the moment I am not using a SS filter. From what I've heard it is only for protection over a longer period of time. So I was wondering would it be alright if I went without one for about a month, or should I just spend the money and buy the active ss filter I found at a place here?
Replies (25)
P0werLifter on 08/18/2004 16:40:52
So overall the transmission line was a success other than the minor construction errors in cutting the sub hole?
To fix it, you could try to remove the front baffle by removing the screws, then get a jig saw /plunge router and try to cut out the panel or something along those lines, Ive also heard of someone using weather stripping to seal the area around the subwoofer hole to prevent air from escaping. I have never personally done this, nor do i have any idea if they make some big enough haha.
Im sure the others will be around shortly with more ideas
-Jason
uochronos on 08/18/2004 16:43:09
SS filter isnt for long term it for everyday use.... you might go for a month or 2 and not play anything that hits below port tuning then the day you do and it play below that for an extended time you can burn a voice coil... if you listen to rock, country you well probaly be ok but if you listen to things that hit low like rap or other things. you risk hiting below tuning frequency and thats when you well burn stuff out. most music doesnt have real low frequencies for long periods but when you get one that does you risk damage.
LC1 on 08/18/2004 17:27:27
I called Alpine Tech support and the person I was talking to said that a SS filter isn't really neccessary because the box specs they gave me had the port tuned @35Hz. He said since its such as low tuning frequency that I shouldn't really worry about about it. Also I know a guy on my street who owns a well respected audio shop here and he said that I don't "really" need one either. Since I respect all your opions on this site I am going to pick up a SS filter after I get a bit more money and get my bills etc paid. However, until then I guess I will just pay attention to how low the bass notes are playing.
Thanks,
Jay
PS if anyone has any other suggestions on how to fix my front baffle hole for the sub I would still like to hear them. Thanks
uochronos on 08/18/2004 17:34:05
at 35hz you wont get much below that but certain songs can hit below that. if you happen to have something that does and hits alot in that frequency your looking for trouble...
as for fixing the hole you could do it the ghetto way and just cut a smaller board cut the right hole then screw that bopard over existing hole...
compvr15s on 08/18/2004 19:18:34
thats what i would do, i would just cut a new front panel and make the whole the right size. then put a lot of wood glue on the existing front panel and just slap the new one to the old one and then screw it down with some shorter screws to the front. on the existing front panel now i would cut the hole a lil bigger than it is now so when you put the new piece over it you can use some good silicone on the lip from the new small hole to the old larger hole. this will work fine and look fine too, just make sure you get an airtight seal between the two... a lot of glue and good silicone will get this done, just make sure that the whole is right this time.. start off with the new hole a lil small, then take a router or sander and just keep expanding the hole till its right size...
swez on 08/18/2004 20:35:37
You already know the best way to cure the bad cut on the speaker hole... replace the panel entirely. Your backup is to make a second panel and overlay it atop the present one.
After all is well glued and screwed, you can pretty well hide the boo-boo by covering the box with cloth or other robust material.
I gather you used a jig/sabre saw to cut this hole? It's hard to get a very good circle w/o a router or compass type RotoZip tool.
Swez
LC1 on 08/19/2004 00:47:16
About making a new front pannel, I guess I could make it out of 1/2" plywood or somthing so the box won't be much heavier. It is already quite heavy with the woofer in it and if i add another front pannel of 3/4 MDF it will be even more.
Also if I use wood that is thicker it will make my port slightly longer by adding the new front pannel. So would using 1/2" plywood or somthign similar be enough strength to mount the sub on?
Jay
P0werLifter on 08/19/2004 01:07:41
Personally i wouldnt reccoment using plywood to mount your driver to. It might be alright since you have the 3/4" MDF underneath it but i still would rather use another sheet of MDF. You can try it but personally id just cut out the front baffle plate, then place another 3/4" Baffle in...then cut the subwoofer hole and whammy....same Port Length, Same Height, etc. Its more work but you dont have to worry about adding more weight/lesser strength/port length etc.
But the other way is a viable option also.
-Jason
ttocs on 08/19/2004 01:32:45
to simply cover what you want to do, you could go as thin as 3/8" I imagine without much trouble. Agreed on the mdf though. Make sure you mount it solidly on the front, and of course measure twice cut once. It happens to all of us...... Well most of them, I don't know........
I remember one time we let a salesmen in the shop on his afternoon off. He was just haning around but started to help us build a box for a PG cyclone. After he cuts the hole I hear the other installer start laughing hysterically as he traced the wrong side of the circle jig, so the sub was now resting on the bottom of the box. He of course caught alot of flac fer it, but it was all in good fun in the garage.......
swez on 08/19/2004 07:24:46
Actually, an additional panel of 1/2" MDF is plenty since you already have 3/4" as a base. Since it is mounted on the outside of the box, it won't have much effect on performance or tuning of the original design.
Plywood is not a good choice here as there are often voids in typical plywoods unless you go for premium wood like Baltic Birch. Very expensive option there.
Swez
PS ttocs, good story on mis-cuts.... hehe That could happen to anyone as they are learning the ropes.
cplkittle on 08/23/2004 00:01:36
If your box has a transmission line port, extending the port up to 2" will not affect the sound as much as a drop in temperature of 20 degrees. temperature and humidity has the greatest affect on sound speed. Just curious, how long is the port?
LC1 on 08/23/2004 03:02:09
The port is 31" long. Its pretty long, so that is why decided on using the 180degree bends in the port.
Also, after fixing the front pannel I have now noticed a noisy rattle coming from the port when I have the stereo up louder. I think it is becasuse I did not seal each inside baffle for the port lengths. Since this is my first enclosure that I have built like this I think i'm just going to scrap it and do another one, unless anybody knows a way to fix it? My dad has a bunch of MDF and it won't cost me anything more then my time to do another one. However, since I like building things and working with my hands I don't really mind constructing another.
Thanks,
Jay
P0werLifter on 08/23/2004 03:24:10
Is it a rattling? or more of a whisping when you turn up the volume? If its a whisping you can round the edges of the port and that should help.
Jason
LC1 on 08/23/2004 11:21:38
It definately a rattling, almost sounds like a piece of wood bouncing around in there lol.
Jay
P0werLifter on 08/23/2004 11:31:18
Ewww yah thats defenently not a good sound lol. When you constructed the fix for the top panel, did u make sure to load that thing with glue and some screws to make sure it was secured very tightly to the existing wood?. At high volume since the subwoofer is going through high excursion it really wreaks havoc on the wood. I had a guy build me an enclosure one time and he did a really bad job construction it, when i put a bigger amp in at high volume with the 2 12"s i had the top panel would flex and make a popping sound. the only other thing i can think of that might help ti fix it but i doubt it'll do anything is take the subwoofer out, then line the area between the top fix panel and the original panel with some calk adhesive to make sure that area where the sub is mounted to isnt flexing when the bass hits and slapping against the original panel. Not sure if it would work but u could try it, or get some screws and randomly screw down the top panel to the orginial, that should really tighten it down.
Im sure everyoneelse will have some ideas also
~Jason
swez on 08/23/2004 17:44:40
Yeah, I thought similar... need to cover the old face panel with carpentry glue, stick it and then screw it down good. The glue holds it together. The screws are just a mechanical bond until the glue cures.
Swez
asplundher on 08/23/2004 18:11:55
One thing that I see no one has touched on is losses due to leaks. Even though it sounds good now with the leak around the sub, it is very possible it will have to be retuned or possibly rebuilt (in some cases) to get the same results since leakage losses will be less. Ported boxes final tuning relies heavily on this factor.
LC1 on 08/23/2004 23:21:31
Today I took the screws out of the top pannel and chizeled it off and scraped and sanded a new surface to re-gule/screw it too. When I had the top off i used a TON of silcone around all the joints and the port to make sure everything was sealed tight. For fixing the new hole for the sub i cut a new front pannel and made sure it was cut correctly. Don't know how this is going to sound yet because I am letting the silicone dry over night. Hopefully this will work out. Being my first enclosure I have ever built I don't think it went too bad. I have some decent carpentry skills and i figured that it would be no problem to build lol, turns out its harder then it look for this type of box. Oh well we'll see how it turns out tomorrow.
Thanks,
Jay
swez on 08/28/2004 00:45:53
Well... how are things coming along here?
Swez
P0werLifter on 08/28/2004 22:53:31
How are things goin on the enclosure?
Jason
Wealot53 on 08/29/2004 01:05:03
This enclosure is not one of the easiest to construct and from what I understand you have done a great job with as little flaws as it has my first few of any kind tuning enclosures were merely practice. But luckily I had great friends and even better installers 2 Master Techs(MECP) to teach me a few tricks FIRST everything has to be drawn first all of your calculations have to be perfect and on paper all of mine go in my lap top now factoring for displacement of wood etc. because as you probably know now after you get one more piece in you blocked of 3 just try to stay with your calculations and not imagination when the construction actually starts.Take all the time you need with the paper and pencil (alot cheaper and less frustrating.Second when you start the cutting process cut all your pieces your plans should be perfect and last once everthing is cut (For cutting your circle the same guys gave me a perfect circle jig ordered from CUSTOM that your plunge router mounts to It's the best thing since light bread it takes a couple more passes but it 's perfect from 3" up to 15 1/2" and when it comes time to put it together do just that I use regular wood glue as long as your cuts are straight yo need no silicone pour it in a 20 oz coke bottle with a hole drilled in the cap a small hole now just lay the bottle flat on your mdf and run it where the other piece goes then nail it with a brad nailer the glue will squeez out wipe it with a rag to make sure it seals good and remove the excess and continue on. just make sure you give it a good 3 or 4 hours before the woofer budges an inch to dry and I guarantee your next transmission line or 7th order or any enclosure you build will be as simple as a deck in a honda!
LC1 on 08/29/2004 02:52:56
Just another update on this enclosure. It is all finished everything works perfect now. The sub sounds great, to me personally it sounds much better in this enclosure then it did in my 1cuft sealed box I had it in before. The bass seems to sound much richer and fuller, without sounding too boomy or sloppy. As for my other post about the ratteling/scraping sound in my sub it appears to be gone now....I don't understand lol. Oh well I will just keep my eye on it (or should I say ear....).
Thanks for all the help. This is going to be my last time spending money on car audio....for now. I have some other things I need to focus my money on. My next adventure will be a new set of compnents and amping all my interior speakers instead of running them off my HU now.
Thanks,
Jay
P0werLifter on 08/29/2004 03:24:54
Congrats Jay on your fabrication and install of your new sub enclosure. Keep an ear out for that rattling so you can send it in for warrenty work. Make sure you come on back to the board and stop in often, we'd love to hear from ya...Goodluck
-Jason
swez on 08/29/2004 07:13:07
Well done Jay. Sounds like a winner and the scraping noise went away??? Really... hummm... musta healed itself ??? Come back and visit as you have time OK?
Swez
LC1 on 08/29/2004 14:11:02
Of course I will still be around, I check the forum everyday as often as I check my email lol. Who knows maybe I can even apply some of the knowledge I have learned here and help others out with any similar problems that I have had.
Thanks for the help,
Jay
The only problem is that I cut my sub hole too big and there are air leeks and the box now makes a chirping sound. I cant hear it much in the front of the car but when I pop the trunk it is REALLY noticable. I sure that this cannot be good for the sub. Does anybody have any tips on how to fix this or is it possible to remove the front pannel and make a new one?
Thanks,
Jason
PS At the moment I am not using a SS filter. From what I've heard it is only for protection over a longer period of time. So I was wondering would it be alright if I went without one for about a month, or should I just spend the money and buy the active ss filter I found at a place here?
Replies (25)
P0werLifter on 08/18/2004 16:40:52
So overall the transmission line was a success other than the minor construction errors in cutting the sub hole?
To fix it, you could try to remove the front baffle by removing the screws, then get a jig saw /plunge router and try to cut out the panel or something along those lines, Ive also heard of someone using weather stripping to seal the area around the subwoofer hole to prevent air from escaping. I have never personally done this, nor do i have any idea if they make some big enough haha.
Im sure the others will be around shortly with more ideas
-Jason
uochronos on 08/18/2004 16:43:09
SS filter isnt for long term it for everyday use.... you might go for a month or 2 and not play anything that hits below port tuning then the day you do and it play below that for an extended time you can burn a voice coil... if you listen to rock, country you well probaly be ok but if you listen to things that hit low like rap or other things. you risk hiting below tuning frequency and thats when you well burn stuff out. most music doesnt have real low frequencies for long periods but when you get one that does you risk damage.
LC1 on 08/18/2004 17:27:27
I called Alpine Tech support and the person I was talking to said that a SS filter isn't really neccessary because the box specs they gave me had the port tuned @35Hz. He said since its such as low tuning frequency that I shouldn't really worry about about it. Also I know a guy on my street who owns a well respected audio shop here and he said that I don't "really" need one either. Since I respect all your opions on this site I am going to pick up a SS filter after I get a bit more money and get my bills etc paid. However, until then I guess I will just pay attention to how low the bass notes are playing.
Thanks,
Jay
PS if anyone has any other suggestions on how to fix my front baffle hole for the sub I would still like to hear them. Thanks
uochronos on 08/18/2004 17:34:05
at 35hz you wont get much below that but certain songs can hit below that. if you happen to have something that does and hits alot in that frequency your looking for trouble...
as for fixing the hole you could do it the ghetto way and just cut a smaller board cut the right hole then screw that bopard over existing hole...
compvr15s on 08/18/2004 19:18:34
thats what i would do, i would just cut a new front panel and make the whole the right size. then put a lot of wood glue on the existing front panel and just slap the new one to the old one and then screw it down with some shorter screws to the front. on the existing front panel now i would cut the hole a lil bigger than it is now so when you put the new piece over it you can use some good silicone on the lip from the new small hole to the old larger hole. this will work fine and look fine too, just make sure you get an airtight seal between the two... a lot of glue and good silicone will get this done, just make sure that the whole is right this time.. start off with the new hole a lil small, then take a router or sander and just keep expanding the hole till its right size...
swez on 08/18/2004 20:35:37
You already know the best way to cure the bad cut on the speaker hole... replace the panel entirely. Your backup is to make a second panel and overlay it atop the present one.
After all is well glued and screwed, you can pretty well hide the boo-boo by covering the box with cloth or other robust material.
I gather you used a jig/sabre saw to cut this hole? It's hard to get a very good circle w/o a router or compass type RotoZip tool.
Swez
LC1 on 08/19/2004 00:47:16
About making a new front pannel, I guess I could make it out of 1/2" plywood or somthing so the box won't be much heavier. It is already quite heavy with the woofer in it and if i add another front pannel of 3/4 MDF it will be even more.
Also if I use wood that is thicker it will make my port slightly longer by adding the new front pannel. So would using 1/2" plywood or somthign similar be enough strength to mount the sub on?
Jay
P0werLifter on 08/19/2004 01:07:41
Personally i wouldnt reccoment using plywood to mount your driver to. It might be alright since you have the 3/4" MDF underneath it but i still would rather use another sheet of MDF. You can try it but personally id just cut out the front baffle plate, then place another 3/4" Baffle in...then cut the subwoofer hole and whammy....same Port Length, Same Height, etc. Its more work but you dont have to worry about adding more weight/lesser strength/port length etc.
But the other way is a viable option also.
-Jason
ttocs on 08/19/2004 01:32:45
to simply cover what you want to do, you could go as thin as 3/8" I imagine without much trouble. Agreed on the mdf though. Make sure you mount it solidly on the front, and of course measure twice cut once. It happens to all of us...... Well most of them, I don't know........
I remember one time we let a salesmen in the shop on his afternoon off. He was just haning around but started to help us build a box for a PG cyclone. After he cuts the hole I hear the other installer start laughing hysterically as he traced the wrong side of the circle jig, so the sub was now resting on the bottom of the box. He of course caught alot of flac fer it, but it was all in good fun in the garage.......
swez on 08/19/2004 07:24:46
Actually, an additional panel of 1/2" MDF is plenty since you already have 3/4" as a base. Since it is mounted on the outside of the box, it won't have much effect on performance or tuning of the original design.
Plywood is not a good choice here as there are often voids in typical plywoods unless you go for premium wood like Baltic Birch. Very expensive option there.
Swez
PS ttocs, good story on mis-cuts.... hehe That could happen to anyone as they are learning the ropes.
cplkittle on 08/23/2004 00:01:36
If your box has a transmission line port, extending the port up to 2" will not affect the sound as much as a drop in temperature of 20 degrees. temperature and humidity has the greatest affect on sound speed. Just curious, how long is the port?
LC1 on 08/23/2004 03:02:09
The port is 31" long. Its pretty long, so that is why decided on using the 180degree bends in the port.
Also, after fixing the front pannel I have now noticed a noisy rattle coming from the port when I have the stereo up louder. I think it is becasuse I did not seal each inside baffle for the port lengths. Since this is my first enclosure that I have built like this I think i'm just going to scrap it and do another one, unless anybody knows a way to fix it? My dad has a bunch of MDF and it won't cost me anything more then my time to do another one. However, since I like building things and working with my hands I don't really mind constructing another.
Thanks,
Jay
P0werLifter on 08/23/2004 03:24:10
Is it a rattling? or more of a whisping when you turn up the volume? If its a whisping you can round the edges of the port and that should help.
Jason
LC1 on 08/23/2004 11:21:38
It definately a rattling, almost sounds like a piece of wood bouncing around in there lol.
Jay
P0werLifter on 08/23/2004 11:31:18
Ewww yah thats defenently not a good sound lol. When you constructed the fix for the top panel, did u make sure to load that thing with glue and some screws to make sure it was secured very tightly to the existing wood?. At high volume since the subwoofer is going through high excursion it really wreaks havoc on the wood. I had a guy build me an enclosure one time and he did a really bad job construction it, when i put a bigger amp in at high volume with the 2 12"s i had the top panel would flex and make a popping sound. the only other thing i can think of that might help ti fix it but i doubt it'll do anything is take the subwoofer out, then line the area between the top fix panel and the original panel with some calk adhesive to make sure that area where the sub is mounted to isnt flexing when the bass hits and slapping against the original panel. Not sure if it would work but u could try it, or get some screws and randomly screw down the top panel to the orginial, that should really tighten it down.
Im sure everyoneelse will have some ideas also
~Jason
swez on 08/23/2004 17:44:40
Yeah, I thought similar... need to cover the old face panel with carpentry glue, stick it and then screw it down good. The glue holds it together. The screws are just a mechanical bond until the glue cures.
Swez
asplundher on 08/23/2004 18:11:55
One thing that I see no one has touched on is losses due to leaks. Even though it sounds good now with the leak around the sub, it is very possible it will have to be retuned or possibly rebuilt (in some cases) to get the same results since leakage losses will be less. Ported boxes final tuning relies heavily on this factor.
LC1 on 08/23/2004 23:21:31
Today I took the screws out of the top pannel and chizeled it off and scraped and sanded a new surface to re-gule/screw it too. When I had the top off i used a TON of silcone around all the joints and the port to make sure everything was sealed tight. For fixing the new hole for the sub i cut a new front pannel and made sure it was cut correctly. Don't know how this is going to sound yet because I am letting the silicone dry over night. Hopefully this will work out. Being my first enclosure I have ever built I don't think it went too bad. I have some decent carpentry skills and i figured that it would be no problem to build lol, turns out its harder then it look for this type of box. Oh well we'll see how it turns out tomorrow.
Thanks,
Jay
swez on 08/28/2004 00:45:53
Well... how are things coming along here?
Swez
P0werLifter on 08/28/2004 22:53:31
How are things goin on the enclosure?
Jason
Wealot53 on 08/29/2004 01:05:03
This enclosure is not one of the easiest to construct and from what I understand you have done a great job with as little flaws as it has my first few of any kind tuning enclosures were merely practice. But luckily I had great friends and even better installers 2 Master Techs(MECP) to teach me a few tricks FIRST everything has to be drawn first all of your calculations have to be perfect and on paper all of mine go in my lap top now factoring for displacement of wood etc. because as you probably know now after you get one more piece in you blocked of 3 just try to stay with your calculations and not imagination when the construction actually starts.Take all the time you need with the paper and pencil (alot cheaper and less frustrating.Second when you start the cutting process cut all your pieces your plans should be perfect and last once everthing is cut (For cutting your circle the same guys gave me a perfect circle jig ordered from CUSTOM that your plunge router mounts to It's the best thing since light bread it takes a couple more passes but it 's perfect from 3" up to 15 1/2" and when it comes time to put it together do just that I use regular wood glue as long as your cuts are straight yo need no silicone pour it in a 20 oz coke bottle with a hole drilled in the cap a small hole now just lay the bottle flat on your mdf and run it where the other piece goes then nail it with a brad nailer the glue will squeez out wipe it with a rag to make sure it seals good and remove the excess and continue on. just make sure you give it a good 3 or 4 hours before the woofer budges an inch to dry and I guarantee your next transmission line or 7th order or any enclosure you build will be as simple as a deck in a honda!
LC1 on 08/29/2004 02:52:56
Just another update on this enclosure. It is all finished everything works perfect now. The sub sounds great, to me personally it sounds much better in this enclosure then it did in my 1cuft sealed box I had it in before. The bass seems to sound much richer and fuller, without sounding too boomy or sloppy. As for my other post about the ratteling/scraping sound in my sub it appears to be gone now....I don't understand lol. Oh well I will just keep my eye on it (or should I say ear....).
Thanks for all the help. This is going to be my last time spending money on car audio....for now. I have some other things I need to focus my money on. My next adventure will be a new set of compnents and amping all my interior speakers instead of running them off my HU now.
Thanks,
Jay
P0werLifter on 08/29/2004 03:24:54
Congrats Jay on your fabrication and install of your new sub enclosure. Keep an ear out for that rattling so you can send it in for warrenty work. Make sure you come on back to the board and stop in often, we'd love to hear from ya...Goodluck
-Jason
swez on 08/29/2004 07:13:07
Well done Jay. Sounds like a winner and the scraping noise went away??? Really... hummm... musta healed itself ??? Come back and visit as you have time OK?
Swez
LC1 on 08/29/2004 14:11:02
Of course I will still be around, I check the forum everyday as often as I check my email lol. Who knows maybe I can even apply some of the knowledge I have learned here and help others out with any similar problems that I have had.
Thanks for the help,
Jay
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